GT5 Flawed Genius?

[JDMKING13]

+1 👍

I'm affraid gran turismo becomes a super car or a race car game like many other.

Nah i would not say that and don't give up on the cockpit view for the Standard cars

 

[CTznOfTime]

I would like my old BMW E30 325i, Renault Clio Williams, Honda Del Sol SIR, Toyota Altezza RS and my current Subaru Legacy B4 Blitzen and my fiancee's Toyota Vitz RS in too, but all of these will be standard cars.

GT never had the BMW E30 nor the E36, (both cars i have been wishing for a long time).

And so by the look of it, i do not think neither will make it to even Standard form?!

Premium for those two cars? As much as i would love to, i somehow doubt that too.


Regarding your thread, i don't GT5 is flawed, nor is Genius.
It will still be the best console game gathering an insane amount of cars that i will enjoy for the next 3 years (at least). 👍

I am so over all of you guys criticisms!
At this point, everything has been released for November sale. Looks to be a game with awesome physics, i just cant wait to give it a go and stare at the beauty of it.
FAR FROM BEING FLAWED, IT IS THE BEST THAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE FOR THE GIVEN TIME.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Nah i would not say that and don't give up on the cockpit view for the Standard cars

As much as i would like to be with you on this, i am afraid that Standard cars will NOT have cockpit view.

I am very optimistic by nature, but in the worse case scenario, i have to be realistic. Therefore when i looked at the Official Sony / Playstation website, they clearly indicate that:

Premium is designed INSIDE / OUT
Standard is only reheated stuff from previous GT games


I am not pessimistic at all, just realistic!

i just dont want you my friend to get your hopes up! Dont want you to get hurt.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

Radracing, you actually quoted my post and then replied to it so poorly that it makes me wonder if you actually read what you were kind enough to quote.

So my GT5 idea would have been 2008 release with the standard cars. How exactly is that the same as GTP, a demo with no career mode, no upgrades, a few tracks and cars, and clearly cars that are closer to premium than standard. Good job putting the dopey similie, it was perfect for your comment.

djs, no mate, didn't mean to ignore the sounds issue in GT5, I just don't have enough information on them to make, even an educated guess at the moment. It appears GT fans are saying some of the sound effects are really good and some of the sounds effects are still as bad as GT4 and GTP. I'll reserve judgement for now.

Dazzla, it's pretty easy to see what I mean about the tracks, look at the screenshots and the videos. As for you being happy with whatever KY, PD, Sony give us. No comment.

 

[Cobra_NZ]

I had a long think earlier, ...long. KY and PD need to change their plans for GT5 following the GT fanbase's reaction to the E3 2010 news. This won't be the perfect scenario but the best option and future proof.. Two completely separate games on 2 Blu-ray discs, sold as one, under the title GT5 and still keeping the release date for November 2010.

GT5 (The path that KY and PD should have followed in the first place, back in 2008)
-Over 1000 standard cars, including the premium cars still in the game but in their standard form
-3D wheels, like in GT4 Photomode
-3D drivers with a range of GT inspired overalls and helmets to pick from in a GT Apparel section
-All car aerials modelled on the standard cars
-Real lights featured on the standard cars
-Black or simple textured undercarriage for all standard cars
-No interiors, just a steering wheel, 2 front seats and a dashboard, all generic, black and untextured
-Motion Capture used on the driver to actually turn a generic steering wheel but no gear changing animations
-Tinted windows just right to match the 3D driver with the generic interiors
-All convertible cars with the roof up to avoid problems with the generic interiors
-All open wheel cars with the same generic interior
-Visual Damage that allows only for dents, scratches, cracked lights and windows
-Physical damage and terminal damage simulated
-Damage settings either on Arcade/visual only or Simulation/including physical and terminal damage
-No NASCAR or WRC licences included
-GT Rally mode similar to GT4 in standard form with standard damage
-No day and night transitions and no high beams
-Night races with low beams only, like in GT4
-Ability to upgrade the mechanical parts in GT Tuning section and to see Street/Sport/Race exhaust mufflers visually on all standard cars
-Ability to see a generic, black, untextured rollcage and removal of the passenger seat if these upgrades are performed in the GT Tuning section
-In GT Aero section the ability to upgrade some standard aero parts like a few types of canards, front splitters, rear diffusers, rear wings, different exhaust mufflers and bonnets, with the option to have them in CF, all with an actual physical aero effect simulated
-GT Paint section allowing painting all cars in any colour
-GT Valet and GT Repair sections also included in GT Career mode
-More simplistic and less expansive tracks
-3D spectators and trees in the foreground and 2D versions in the background
-Real time skidmarks
-A more used, dirty and imperfect looking track surface
-10 cars on track online and over 20 offline
-Sounds to represent backfire pops and boost valves letting off pressure
-Arcade and Simulation physics
-Benchmark tool to calculate instantly 0-60Mph, 0-100Mph, Top Speed, 100Mph-0, 60Mph-0, 0-1/8Mile, 0-1/4Mile, and lateral g at 60/100Mph
-Premium physics including rollover, gravel and grass particle effects, tyre smoke, AI, motion captured 3D spectators, marshals and pit crew, back fire flames
***Comprehensive QA to ensure any bugs, glitches, exploits and errors are fixed in regular and timely patching (for both games)
***Commitment and promise that anyone that buys GT5's GT Premium DLC will get standard versions of any completely new premium cars added to GT5 for free

And

GT5 Premium (The future of GT, KY and PD's genius vision)
-Over 200 premium cars
-day and night transitions
-high beams and ability to turn them on and off
-Premium car interiors and damage
-NASCAR and WRC licences
-Another GT Career mode based purely on premier cars
-Visual transformation of premium cars as performance and weight reduction upgrades are performed
-Licenced body kits, all with an actual physical aero effect simulated
***Commitment to release more premium cars and more tracks in the form of DLC/not free until all the standard cars are premium and adding the occasional new ones
***Commitment to add dynamic weather in form of DLC/not free

But KY and PD have to start outsourcing car modelling work to ensure the DLC for GT5 Premium is coming in at a decent rate to please GT fans, perhaps over 40 premium cars every 3 months, over 160 per year and aiming to have all the standard cars finished, plus a number of new ones, in 5 years. A steady stream of revenue with no publishing costs, to make a profit and cover developments costs for Sony from the millions strong GT5 fanbase. Then, GT6 is released in 2015 with all the premium cars and tracks released via DLC so far, plus some new ones, and Porsche licence! The sales of GT6 would fund GT7 on PS4 which is probably when KY will finally achieve his vision of the almost perfect GT.

Now please tell me this scenario as I have painstakingly depicted is not achievable and does not make your mouth water fellow GT fan?

 

[gtone339]

Kazunori Yamauchi's Progress of 'VISION GRAN TURISMO'

Title Year Released Platform Cars Tracks
Gran Turismo: 1997/1998 PlayStation 178 11

Gran Turismo 2: 1999/2000 PlayStation 650 27

Gran Turismo 3: A-Spec: 2001 PlayStation 2 180+ 34

Gran Turismo 4: 2005 PlayStation 2 722 51

Gran Turismo Portable:2009 PSP 830 45 Locations (72 Layouts)

Gran Turismo 5: November 2nd, 2010/PlayStation 3 /950-1000/20 Locations (70 Layouts

Gran Turismo 6: TBA 2013-2015/Playsation 3/over 1000+/over 70 tracks (possibly 100 tracks)

Gran Turismo 7: TBA 2025/Playstation 4/over 1500+/over 100+ tracks (possibly 150 tracks or more)

 

[Cobra_NZ]

gtone339, could you please remove the image and lower your font size to something that does not look like you are spouting abuse at me or others that may have the missfortune to read your post. I have reported your post.

EDIT: Problem solved.

 

[gtone339]

gtone339, could you please remove the image and lower your font size to something that does not look like you are spouting abuse at me or others that may have the missfortune to read your post. I have reported your post.

I'm not abusing anybody here. If I am I would be saying <censored> to them.

And I thought you added me?

 

[8500rpm]

Hello everyone,

My first post, have only been reading so far, for almost a year

Anyway, I am amazed on all the requirements everyone has on the game, the PS3 is soon an old computer, the hardware is what, 4-5-6years old, most of us has much more powerful desktop computers now, the graphics hardware was old the moment is was released.

I am impressed what PD are doing with GT5, but why do you keep requesting more ? Isn't 60fps the most important thing ?

Or is it... than most of you are better at coding efficient rendering algorithms than PD, and you don't understand why those people there at PD cannot do more with old hardware, because we the fans can ?

The MOST scary comment that was made by Kaz at E3 was that GT5 will probably be better suited for the next generation, PS4.... I regard that as a scary comment, all the 3D and extra snow, skidmarks and other ridiculous stuff has made GT5 a choppy framerate game ???

 

[premhz]

Anyone arguing for more premium cars has obviously overlooked that there is not enough physical space left on the disc. DLC seems like the way to do things here.

One forget`s the need to cull the absurd variations of WRX`s,EVO`s and Skylines that is part of GT1-4. There lies the space needed for full premium cars and Skidmarks. Bin the Reverse lights too if it helps

 

[demonator16]

Cobra_NZ, have you actually properly read what everyone else has written on this thread, because it doesn't seem to me as though you have done. You are adament about being correct on particular aspects of GTHD, Vision GT and GT5, and you haven't realised that a number of features you initially complained about not being present have since been confirmed as being included - reverse lights, 3D trees. So much for:

I am a very dedicated GT fan and have always followed it's progress

Meanwhile, other people have included quotes by the likes of KY and the gang in their posts - these quotes being solid facts as they have come from PD - yet you still dispute their correctness, and insist that what you say is always right. Maybe you should read the other posts properly before continuing with your whinging, before getting to a point when you realise your starting to sound silly from being wrong... you created the thread on the 19th, a full 4 days after details, a number of which you have complained about, were clearly highlighted at E3 about GT5 - get your facts right before posting. And I still don't think that you quite understand that GT5 did not take 6 years to develop. Furthermore, this whinge didn't require its own thread... I'm sure that the EMO Thread would have sufficed for this almost unjustified essay of constant complaints.

Finally, your complaints about PD's marketing team are unnecessary... the reason why no details have been given is because each and every GT has been shrouded in mystery up until the last moment... it all adds to the excitement and tension for one, and seen as its always been done in this way why change it now? They have done exceptionally well in trying to meet the demands of the GT community, and if they do happen to read your post I sure hope they think, "Oh God, not another ungrateful idiot!" If you don't like it, then don't buy it... it's as simple as that.

Sorry for the rant, but I am just voicing what others reading this thread would be thinking!

 

[amar212]

What always amases me is how some people who don't know nothing about actual game development, video-game bussines and overall knowledge needed to make the game such as Gran Turismo think they know better than people who are actually 20 years in the bussines and by chance seems to be the best in the world in what they do.

Anyone here think he knows ANYTHING better than poeple in SCE and PD? Anyone here think he have an REVOLUTIONARY IDEA or PLAN that both SCE or PD haven't thnik about yet?

Internet should be forbidden.

 

[magburner]

What's happend is that KY had a vision that was too big for the PS3 and GT5 and too time consuming for the GT fans. In the end, GT5 is not the product all the GT fans have been waiting for 6 long years.

KYs vision of Gran Turismo has ALWAYS been too big, no matter what system it was on. I seem to remember things being dropped from all the previous games.

If and when they start desiging the PS4, Sony would be wise to based the secifications of the machine on what KY and PD require for the next Gran Turismo. The PS3 is just too small a system for such a big dream!

PS. Whats all this about 2D trees?

 

[demonator16]

Sorry amar, was that at me or the thread in general. Apologies, but I just thought something needed to be said, seen as Cobra_NZ has a retort to almost any reply to this thread!

 

[steve30x]

What alienates me as a GT fan is these stupid whiner threads. Its threads like this that is the reason for GT5's delay. You guys want everything but wonder why GT5 got delayed. It takes timne to add these features you guys are crying like spoilt kids about. I would say 99% of you guys dont have a clue how to do any type of software programming and think its dead easy to add skidmarks , reverse lights , smoke and all that stuff you are crying about. Its not that easy at all.

Every new feature added will bring on some sort of bug that will need to be fixed and then tere is testing for bugs which takes a hell lot of time. Whenever a piece of code is changed it could possibly cause a bug to show up and they then have to adjust another piece of code to fix that bug which could possibly bring up another bug.

You guys who are crying about missing features have no clue how hard it is to write games code. I know what its like to bug hunt in games because I have beta tested a few games in the past few years and it takes hours , maybe even weeks to find all the bugs that creeped into a small bit of code added to game code.

Just because one game has skid marks , weather , day - night , tyre smoke etc. doesnt mean it would be dead easy to add to GT5. GT5 is a thousand times bigger with more cars , tracks and features than any other racing game available to date.

But I reckon I am talking to myself here because none of you guys want to know or think I am wrong and will continue to cry.

 

[demonator16]

+1 👍

Exactly!

No, no... I agree with you steve; I couldn't agree more! Even about the coding bit... I've coded games myself, and it can be a nightmare at times, to just achieve the simplest of things!

 

[amar212]

Sorry amar, was that at me or the thread in general. Apologies, but I just thought something needed to be said, seen as Cobra_NZ has a retort to almost any reply to this thread!

No mate, it was about threads like this in general, that promotes idea "PD should have done this" or "should have done that" like they do not know what should be done in order to create game the best it can be.

Just look at this forum, and other gaming forums - nobody cares about what GT5 will actually bring into series and genre, everything we see is constant complaints, moaning and whining.

And professional consultatnt advices of course, everybody is a freaking consultant and AAA PS3 programmer with 100% knowledge of PS3 coding these days...

 

[Tenacious D]

Just to pile on here, sorry Cobra but your premise is, dare I say it... flawed.

Even Prologue Spec III has 3D spectators, so you clearly aren't up to speed on what Kaz has accomplished. Nor does it seem that you're aware that GT5 is still in beta stage. It won't go gold for another three months at least, unless Kaz decides to drop it on us sooner. But considering all the whining going on, I sure can't see that happening.

Amar is right.

I guess you'll think we're all batpoop crazy for loving this game in its 20/80 Premium/Standard form. But here's one more. I like it, I love it, I want it. Gotta have it.

 

[bullie77]

No mate, it was about threads like this in general, that promotes idea "PD should have done this" or "should have done that" like they do not know what should be done in order to create game the best it can be.

Just look at this forum, and other gaming forums - nobody cares about what GT5 will actually bring into series and genre, everything we see is constant complaints, moaning and whining.

And professional consultatnt advices of course, everybody is a freaking consultant and AAA PS3 programmer with 100% knowledge of PS3 coding these days...

Excuse me Amar. I do reckon I know nothing about developing of a videogame and I do also reckon that some features might have been dropped out due to force of choice. There are obviously technical limitations that enforce those choices. This is not someone's particular responsibility - it is what it is!

However, regarding the Premium vs Standard cars, things seem to me to be motivated differently.

GT5 is as demo, a vision, a taste (call it what you like) of the upcoming final product which is GT5. Nonetheless, and no forgetting it's particular flaws (as any game), overall it was a consistent and coherent product in terms of quality - visual, graphical, physics, much what one would expect for every new GT game in the series. Graphically, it intorduces the novelty in the series of in-board view (cockpit).

The final product will enhanced those improvements showed at GT5 + a whole new physics engine + new tracks models. Great! I imagine how long does take in time to implement those things alone, plus all new features we are hearing about it these past few days. If you think of it probably 5 years do not represent an exaggerated amount of time. However this is where (in my opinion) PD/Sony stuck in a dilemma.

After a very long waiting eager fans from all over the world are "demanding" for the release of the game which development costs are astronomical. Sure they will not lose money on it but until the game is actually in the stores shelfs, it's all outcome and no income... So two options after these 5 years are in the stand:

a) Release the game as it is, with all new outstanding features and ultra-realistic modelled 200+ premium cars but, fail to deliver the "promised" 950+ vehicules because either there was no time to model them all at that level and/or there's no storage capability in the Blue-Ray disk to do it so;

b) Release the game as it is, with all above mentioned features and cars + the number enough of remodelled/upscaled vehicules from past GT games to make the advertised number for years.

In my opinion it was (regarding this specific issues) a matter of choice - lead no question because of the technical limitations. In my perspective, simply put, the options were between quality based or quantity based and the option selected was the latest.

 

[RedBaron]

No mate, it was about threads like this in general, that promotes idea "PD should have done this" or "should have done that" like they do not know what should be done in order to create game the best it can be.

Just look at this forum, and other gaming forums - nobody cares about what GT5 will actually bring into series and genre, everything we see is constant complaints, moaning and whining.

And professional consultatnt advices of course, everybody is a freaking consultant and AAA PS3 programmer with 100% knowledge of PS3 coding these days...

Amar, you don't have to be professional composer to hear a false tone. There is million of hours of ant work spent on the game to run as smooth and beautiful as it is. But in the same time, one is really curious how for example those engine sounds can be so underestimated and dead compared even to ten years old games.

Here is some kind of discussion forum and it's crazy to await it full of applauding threads. Your right is not to read them or not to reply. But whinging against whinging is not the right way I think. 💡

 

[Seismica]

In my opinion it was (regarding this specific issues) a matter of choice - lead no question because of the technical limitations. In my perspective, simply put, the options were between quality based or quantity based and the option selected was the latest.

You're looking at it completely the wrong way.

They chose quality, hence why they have 200 or so of the most realistically modelled cars in just about any game ever made.

Because they are such high quality, they are future proof.

But, it also took a lot of time for them to make them. They didn't want to ship the game with 800 standard cars but they had no choice due to time limitations (Which are more significant than technical limitations in these circumstances).

Your glass is half empty, mine is half full.

 

[bullie77]

You're looking at it completely the wrong way.

They chose quality, hence why they have 200 or so of the most realistically modelled cars in just about any game ever made.

Because they are such high quality, they are future proof.

But, it also took a lot of time for them to make them. They didn't want to ship the game with 800 standard cars but they had no choice due to time limitations (Which are more significant than technical limitations in these circumstances).

Your glass is half empty, mine is half full.

Yes, definetively we are looking on the same glass with different perspectives. However, Som parts from your post don't fit in in my opinion with your view of a half full glass.

You say they choose quality based on the amazing work they've made on the 200 premium models. True. But you cannot analyze the game separatedly in premium cars and standard cars, because they are all in the same game. And what we have is a game that will feature 20% of the cars at a level never seen before and 80% at a lower quality than we had in GT5. So clearly, the bet was in quantity above quality.

You say also that the featured quality in premium cars are something to be regarded as 'future-proof'. I wonder then if what we are getting in November is GT5 or GT5 volume II? I believe this was meant to be the final product.

Finally in your last paragraph you agree with me. The time factor was king here and made them shipped the game with those 800 standard models which, also in your opinion, wasn't in their plans in the beginning (I agree). Where we differ is in the way how each interpret this decision. To me was again a proof of quantity over quality preference. Put it this way, seeing the game as whole (which it is), the option of putting premium and standard cars side-by-side will not contribute for the graphical quality of it but instead will reduce it. Remember 80% of the cars are "recycled" from previous games. After 5 years. And put together to other cars to which it can't be even compared to in terms of visual quality.

Definetively, in my opinion, the game would be of much higher overall quality if it included solely premium cars. Even in lower numbers (200+). This was it clearly a rushed finishing product that had 800 cars "thrown in" at last minute to fill up the (previously announced) numbers. 👎

 

[steve30x]

what we have is a game that will feature 20% of the cars at a level never seen before and 80% at a lower quality than we had in GT5. So clearly, the bet was in quantity above quality.

I would love to know where you are getting the information that the 800 cars will be lower quality cars than the cars in GT5 Prologue? I have seen all news reports and nowhere have I seen such info. You seem to be nit picking for an argument and an excuse not to buy the game.

 

[CTznOfTime]

Definetively, in my opinion, the game would be of much higher overall quality if it included solely premium cars. Even in lower numbers (200+). This was it clearly a rushed finishing product that had 800 cars "thrown in" at last minute to fill up the (previously announced) numbers. 👎

I think you got it all wrong...

We all agree that PD/Kaz have initially announced a high number of cars to be included in GT5, +800.

Most likely their intention was to put back most, if not all, of the cars from previous GT games, and then add a few hundred more new cars.

Most likely their intention was also to render all of the cars in GT5 to the highest level possible. (Premium level)

Once they have started on developing/design the brand new cars from ground up into the Premium level, they realized how long it would take to do the same job on the rest, existing cars; and so they probably told themselves that they cannot hold on doing the same level of quality (premium level) for those cars. The executive decision was then made to "cut corners" and save time for OUR own sake and patience, to rendered and bring up to scale the 800 existing cars, and make them look as good as possible on the PS3, with the least amount of change or impact on work, and yet make it seemless as far as the discrepencies between Standard and Premium. ( i can already see some of you jump on this). But you have to keep in mind, there is already a big difference between design from scratch and ground up and to design from an existing design from a decade ago. ) It is a big job, i hope you realize that.
Even if they were to render those 800 cars to Premium for GT6, (keeping the same number of staff) they would need 5 years at least!


Therefore, following this most logical scenario, i dont see how you can say that PD/Kaz threw in in the last minute, to fill up the number of cars in GT5.
And even worse yet, i cant believe you would go to say that GT5 is a "rushed product!" ??!! GT5 rushed?
GT5 is a on-going project, not unfinished, but ON-going project.
They tried to give us an acceptable level of quality, completed to a certain level, but definitely NOT unfinished.



Let's say that PD/Kaz followed your advice, which is to cut down the number to 200 (or whatever HD/premium cars there are) and shipped GT5 for $60.

Would you say still that is is the highest quality? How would that be different from 200 premium cars together with 800 standard cars?
Would it be worth your $60 with 800 less cars?

If that was/is the case, i think i would be a bit sad personally, because i would rather see those 800 STANDARD CARS than having none...
or worse yet, having to pay DLC to get those cars (whether in standard or premium).

After +5 years, i dont think that would be friendly scenarios for PD/Kaz to opt.


But for GT6, i am certain PD will hire more people to work and make the release come faster... They will need to do so, because the competition will be fierce!!! Forza 4, the next PGR, NeedForSpeed will certainly try to make something better than their last ****. F... i forgot that letter, ShiFt...

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Internet should be forbidden.

Its the proverbial "two edged sword", my friend.

 

[mykem]

What always amases me is how some people who don't know nothing about actual game development, video-game bussines and overall knowledge needed to make the game such as Gran Turismo think they know better than people who are actually 20 years in the bussines and by chance seems to be the best in the world in what they do.

Anyone here think he knows ANYTHING better than poeple in SCE and PD? Anyone here think he have an REVOLUTIONARY IDEA or PLAN that both SCE or PD haven't thnik about yet?

Internet should be forbidden.

I couldn't agree more.

Speaking of the internet- a lot of people have to learn that not every thoughts in their heads need to be written/spoken. One of the basic use of intelligence is the ability to process and distill thoughts prior to making them overt. The internet on the other seems to discourage restraint.

 

[Tenacious D]

Let's say that PD/Kaz followed your advice, which is to cut down the number to 200 (or whatever HD/premium cars there are) and shipped GT5 for $60.

Would you say still that is is the highest quality? How would that be different from 200 premium cars together with 800 standard cars? Would it be worth your $60 with 800 less cars?

If that was/is the case, i think i would be a bit sad personally, because i would rather see those 800 STANDARD CARS than having none... or worse yet, having to pay DLC to get those cars (whether in standard or premium).

After +5 years, i dont think that would be friendly scenarios for PD/Kaz to opt.

But for GT6, i am certain PD will hire more people to work and make the release come faster... They will need to do so, because the competition will be fierce!!! Forza 4, the next PGR, NeedForSpeed will certainly try to make something better than their last ****. F... i forgot that letter, ShiFt...

This, exactly this.

Frankly, I can't see how having fewer cars makes GT5 better, even if they are of lesser quality. Or tracks for that matter. Is it better to have 20 Premium locations only? Or 20 locations with another 20 some odd locations in Standard quality, if it meant you could race Grindelwald, Red Rock Valley Pike's Peak or Tahiti Maze?

By the way, I forgot that "f" on occasion too. Cough.

 

[Brock5000]

The more I read about GT5 from latest E3 stuff, the more I am worried that it has succumbed to feature creep.

Hopefully all the features that 90% of people have been banging on about, ie visual details etc., won't come at the expense of the core aspects of the game, ie how it actually feels to drive when you strip away all the gloss.

 

[JDMKING13]

I just don't get it what the fuss about with these standard cars is about? They have the graphics on par with every racing game i've played, they have a new damage system that GT4 never had, and the best feature the new physics from GT5. You add that with the new features its going to be amazing. Any car you thought you mastered in GT4 can go out the window with the rest of your GT4 accomplishment. You guys remember the 1st time playing that demo with the physics from GT5 is was amazing )for me at least), now i get a chance to do it all again in GT4 HI DEF glory thats two 👍 IMO

 

[Cobra_NZ]

...Internet should be forbidden.

Sure, perhaps you and your friends and some Moderators here can get together and ban any members posting things you don't like. Freedom of speech is overrated. This thread is what it is and while you may not approve of it, posting on it whining about apparently me whining it's, well, becoming... I'm ignoring the others that did the same thing, especially the ones that did their best to aim their whining at me and not the thread.

As for the issues I have with the tracks, well one can look at the pictures and see that while the odd spectators and trees are 3D the majority are 2D, flatter than a pancake and unnecessary. Same goes for some awful low polygon objects in the background and some low resolution textures. Point I was trying to make was if one puts something in that looks like crap next to something that looks phenomenal the disparity is that much more annoying. Sometimes it's best to leave such things out all together and make sure that what is in is all good, Quality vs Quantity. Same applies to putting 800 turkey standard cars as filling next to 200 premium. This it the work of a perfectionist like KY the GT fanboys would have us believe...

Anyway, that explains my points very clearly. So if anyone has a different or similar opinion please post but it would be good if this did not get personal and if it was kept respectful. This forum being what it is I'm not holding my breath.