Separate names with a comma.
Discussion in 'GT5 Tuning' started by Scaff, Nov 29, 2010.
Does the clutch and flywheel upgrades do anything?
These guides are for GT4. Some things apply, some don't. It was initially added when the game came out as guidelines, since we had no GT5 specific guides. Now that we do, I'm not entirely sure why this remains stickied, but if the information helps people, right or wrong, sobeit.
Don't you read the item description that comes up when you click on the little shopping cart picture for those items?
Better clutch helps the gears to shift more smoothly and with less performance loss at each shift.
Better flywheel helps the engine gain power more quickly.
Those are simplistic descriptions but they are included in the tuning sheet for a reason. You may not see any PP or HP change using them but they do affect the car on the track.
NOTHING is offered in the tuning shop for no reason.
Have you noticed anything quantifiable? Tyres can make a few seconds difference in lap times with each upgrade, how much can you reduce lap times with better clutch, flywheel and prop shaft?
Should make a comparison myself but have always taken the in-game description on faith.
It's kinda off-topic but I never turn down a good challenge.
Using the Mazda Autozam '92 on the Speed Test track - all stock, automatic transmission (to take my manual shifting out of the equation), and keeping the gas depressed from the countdown to the end:
[Fastest time in bold.]
Stock 20.497s, Twin-Plate Clutch 20.247s, Semi-Racing Flywheel 20.313s, Both 20.394
Stock 52.157s, Twin-Plate Clutch 51.703s, Semi-Racing Flywheel 51.760s, Both 51.663s
Stock 15.209s, Twin-Plate Clutch 14.746s, Semi-Racing Flywheel 14.805s, Both 14.712s
I'm sure the differences will be much smaller with a faster and more powerful car. I intentionally picked a slow car to make the time differences more clear. A half second gain over a mile and for 0-60 MPH seems small on the test track but it makes a huge difference over a long lap on a proper racetrack.
Nice work fella
Updated my garage tuning guide for 2.09 specs.
Sometimes you need to increase the rebound on the dampers to get the tyre to press back down onto the road after a bump. If the car is bouncing up over a bump then the 'bump' setting on the car maybe too stiff, however, if the car is not bouncing up over the FIRST bump then the bump setting maybe too soft and might need stiffening a bit.
A good place to test this out is circuit de la sarthe. With very fast cars as you go along the straight you can see how this all works. Stiffer settings there should yield good results, but you will be able to see what happens when you try soft dampers and then harder dampers.
Once you've got the hang of that you can test things out on nurburgring
Wow thanks for these guides, man.
You seriously helped me out I've always wanted to learn how to tune!
I have some problem to calculate the tyre/wheel diameter. The formula doesn't seem to work.
I have some problems to calculate the wheel/tyres diameter
Wow, I see patience isn't one of your virtues. I think you may have to wait more than 5 min. to get some help, but I'm sure someone will eventually come around to help.
This is a gearbox i've made for a maxed viper for 1/4 mile .
To know the tire perimeter, i just need to enter all the others datas i have first.
Then i go on the track and i check my speed for a given gear at a given RPM.
After i enter by approximation a tire perimeter to match with the speed i saw on track.
You can build an excel sheet like this with those formulas:
OUT BOX RPM = SHIFT RPM / GEAR RATIO
WHEEL RPM = OUT BOX RPM / FINAL GEAR
KMH = ((TIRE PERIMETER X WHEEL RPM) X 60) / 1000
MPH= KMH * 0,6213
Just found these guides. They're going to be invaluable mate. Many thanks Scaff!
Before today, I never really bothered to fine tune my cars or, in a lot of cases, tune them well at all. Most of the time I just threw in as much hp as I could and ran with it. Needless to say, the game got boring pretty quickly. Now, after reading these guides, I'm going to have a much better playing experience as I tune the settings on both the cars I have and the cars I want to buy.
Also, I wanted to say thanks for the fact that your guides have a real world application as well. I have a lot of friends who actually have real money to buy and tune cars, and as much as I like listening to what they're working on, it was hard not to get lost once they got past manufacturers, models and stock specs. Now I actually have a better understanding of what they are saying. I still have a ways to go, but thanks to you, Scaff, for getting me going in the right direction.
You're awesome, Scaff! I owe you big time!
Thanks so much Scaff! This is super helpful and informative and exhaustive!
I've been using Scaff tuning guides for a long time now and they proved to be of extreme quality but I still have one issue regarding damper tuning.
Guide says following:
The stiffer a damper is
set, the more it slows down the
movement on its corner and speeds
up the load transfer to the contact
patch. A softer setting does the
opposite; it allows the suspension
to move faster and spreads the
changes in load to the contact
patch over a longer period of time.
So let's say that I want to induce oversteer during corner entry by tweaking only rear dampers, after reading paragraph above (especially underlined section) I would stiffen up rear rebound value. This makes sense since rigid dampers don't move as much and therefore weight shift feels rapid (just like on bicycles without shocks - when I cross over a bump reaction occurs immediately).
Following idea is
However, following parts located contradict previous paragraph:
Soft (lower values): Speeds up transition to over/understeer.
I then start with the
rebound rate, test drive the car, if it
feels unstable, bouncy and loose
then increase the rebound rate.
These advise to soften up rear rebound value in order to induce oversteer.
Honestly after doing numerous tests in GT2 with Subaru Vivio RX-R (I'm trying to make it perform lift-off semi-slides on Seattle Short Course) I just don't know which of this theory works anymore and which one should be applied. Testing both theories may be solution but when you don't know what feel to aim for it becomes impossible to see and understand difference.
I know it's blunt to extract parts from author's work just like that but I really want to have better understanding on how weight transfer (I'm familiar with rest of damper role) on damper works.
If someone with knowledge is willing to explain theory and above contradiction (particularly author of this guide itself) I would very appreciate it.
I will try and explain.
First a slight error in what you have assumed here:"This makes sense since rigid dampers don't move as much and therefore weight shift feels rapid"
Rigid dampers do move as much, they simply resist that movement for longer than softer dampers would and therefore the movement occurs over a shorter period of time. Its important to remember that dampers do not determine how much the suspension moves (that's what spring do) but how long the movement is resisted and therefore how quickly it occurs once the resistance is overcome.
Given the last part I posted I hope that the following will now make sense (and is not a contradiction).
Softer values will speed up the transition to under or oversteer, because the suspension now resists less and movement starts to occur sooner (so the onset of under or oversteer occurs sooner in the suspension cycle). That is not the same as saying it will increase the amount of under or oversteer. As such its not discussing how dampers will affect the balance of the car, simply how quickly that reaction will occur. The part you are looking for is actually the next part of the manual, which reads as follows:
I hope that with the additional clarification you can now see that balance and the speed at which transition occurs are both functions of the damper and its not as simply as just saying increases/decreases under/over steer.
Hope that helps.
So you're saying that oversteer and understeer occurs after resistance defined by damper stiffness is overcome ?
If answer is yes then it makes sense. We usually use soft dampers on light cars as they transfer less weight during corner entry/exit so consequently, there is no need for dampers to be any stiffer as they will still be able to handle that amount of weight while at same time providing responsive feel. But...
...does that mean that I should reduce rear rebound value in order to induce corner-entry oversteer on Vivio ? Because, judging your statement, less resistance will occur so movement where weight shifts to front will begin sooner.
I was unable to download these tunning guides, is there some place else where we can get them ?
I wrote a tuning guide for GT5. Link in my signature below.
Very nice!!! Thank for the topic! Have a good day!