GT5P vs REAL LIFE

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FREEMASON007
SALADINE1
I've been around in a lot of forums where people claim that the cars in GT5P handle realistically or not according to their first hand experience.
Just wanted to get peoples feedback on the real life counterparts of the game.
If anyone has driven a car featured in the game, please post your impressions on the handling, sound and visual departments, especially anyone who has driven them hard on the track!
 
the biggest flaw imo for GT5P with regards to real life is it fails to upset the balance of the car when you lift off mid corner.
 
I'd say it's fairly accurate, I've driven a Mini Cooper in real life and the Cooper S in the game and both felt very similar.

However, you could do worse than to do a little search of the forums, where this subject has been discussed previously 👍
 
I've driven an E92 M3 for a day. Though only on regular roads.
But I think PD has matched the super-fine balance of the car well with reality.
 
There was a review (spec I, early verison of GT5P) by a race car driver. He said its well done. And if you drive a MR car, left off gas in mid turn, car spins out like in real life would do. He mention that only thing is missing is the Gforce acting on your body. and Damange lol.
 
*sigh*

This seems to be discussed with every revision of the Gran Turismo series . . .

From the outside-in, the movements and physics seem pretty accurate, that being said, nothing can substitute reality. Ten times out of twelve, if someone tries on the track what they try in the game, it won't end up well.

-Stig
 
I'd say it's fairly accurate, I've driven a Mini Cooper in real life and the Cooper S in the game and both felt very similar.

However, you could do worse than to do a little search of the forums, where this subject has been discussed previously 👍

Agreed, the Cooper S feels pretty similar in the game although it doesn't sound all that accurate.
 
Our in-house racing driver takes the new GT title for a spin, and now he won't shut up about it.

Before you get too far into this article and your eyes glaze over, your brain reading the words but not actually comprehending them in any way, I want to make something abundantly clear; this is why you bought a PlayStation 3. Sure, some people will insist your purchase was due to a once badass-turned-geriatric super-soldier known as Solid Snake, or Final Fantasy CLXVII something or other which, if history serves as any clue, will feature at least one character suffering from a wicked case of amnesia. But they would be wrong. You really bought a PS3 to play Gran Turismo 5.

Simply put, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is the embodiment of a truly groundbreaking next-gen title, even if it is little more than a tech demo for the final game. The graphics will knock you on your ass, the engine noise pumping from your speakers will lead to your eviction and the physics will leave you understeering into the wall if you aren't careful. It's more than just a driving game – it's an experience.

Sony owes a lot to the GT franchise. Back in 2001, the PS2 was languishing with only a few worthwhile titles before GT3 hit early in the summer, after which there was no excuse not to own a PS2. Aside from having one of the best racing game intros ever, GT3 made an incredibly successful (then) next-gen jump and provided astonishing depth, new courses, improved physics and new modes, proving it wasn't just a graphical update to GT2. The game has sold nearly 15 million copies to date, more than any individual Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy title managed on the PS2. GT4 continued the tradition, selling 9.5 million copies.

However, I'm not here to go on about the success of the franchise, or tell you how the new game's progression system works. I can do that in a sentence: The games have always been good, and in the new one you win races, get money and buy more cars. Done.

What I'm here to tell you about is how the whole experience stacks up against the real thing – being in an actual race car.

My history in race cars spans back almost seven years. I started in Formula Fords back in 2001, and "single-seaters," as we call them, have dominated my racing experience. I have spent most of my time in Formula Mazdas, which are mid-engine rotary-powered open wheel race cars capable of 150 mph and 2.5 Gs of lateral grip. With roughly the same power-to-weight ratio as a Ferrari F430, they are purpose-built for total speed, and can be a real handful at the limit.

feature_gt5_01.jpg

Brian on track in a Formula Mazda in Sonoma, CA

Before I can talk about how GT5: Prologue handles though (don't worry, it handles very well), I'm going to have to give everyone a quick crash course in car balance.

It's important to remember that a car's handling depends on how the weight of the engine shifts between the front and rear of the vehicle. A mid-engine car has a very neutral balance when not accelerating or braking, a state known as "even throttle." Therefore, when you step on the throttle in a mid-engine car, you force the majority of the car's weight onto the rear tires, generating grip. Conversely, if you lift off the throttle, you force the weight of the car onto the front tires, losing traction in the rear. For this reason, you almost always have to be on-throttle before you even enter a turn (especially in fast corners) for the car to maintain maximum grip and control. In a turn, "lifting-off" will cause the car to spin; simple as that. Add to this the fact that on slick racing tires grip doesn't break very progressively, and you realize how easy it is to do something stupid in a formula race car.

Light, mid-engine cars are the ultimate test for a simulation game then. They change direction quickly, and balancing them properly is a detailed affair. There are several cars that mimic this performance in Gran Turismo 5: Prologue, but none do it better than the '96 Lotus Elise. Its power may seem modest at 120bhp, but weighing in at just 720 kg (1587 lbs), the car is still quick and incredibly nimble; and because it has no bulky weight at the corners to betray its mid-engine design, it's a real freakin' handful.

You see, this is where I am most impressed with Gran Turismo 5: Prologue. No other racing game has this level of physics detail. Playing on "professional" mode (real-world physics) with no electronic aids, if you lift off the throttle mid-turn, the rear of the Elise quickly breaks loose. If you snap back onto the throttle, the rear end squats down on its rubber and the car straightens itself out, just like it would out on a real racetrack. It's amazingly impressive, because most racing games, even previous GT titles, just don't have the same accuracy that GT5: Prologue does. The level of precision you can achieve is surprisingly accurate, meaning you can generate big, controllable slip angles. The limits feel both progressive and exploitable, but take it too far and you will pay the price, just as you would in a real car.

It doesn't stop there, though; GT5 has managed to believably simulate all drive train systems. For example, all-wheel drive cars certainly have their own particular driving style. When you get on the throttle through a turn in an all-wheel drive car, the power is transferred to the outside wheels (which have the most grip) and the car has a tendency to pull itself out towards the edge of the track. As usual, Polyphony Digital is on top of it, and the all-wheel drive cars in GT5 handle accurately, as do the front and rear-wheel drive vehicles. Each car seems to have its own particular personality, just as it should be.

Major overhauls aside then, there are a lot of small details that impress as the game goes on. The cars actually move on top of their suspension systems, making them react to body roll, bumps and camber changes much more accurately than before. For example, every bump at Daytona has been painstakingly recreated, and your car will bounce on its suspension system as you slam over them. Players will also struggle to find grip on the back half of Fuji Speedway, where the corners turn off camber and fall away from the apex, forcing the car wide for all but the most focused of drivers.

Continue reading here: http://ps3.kombo.com/article.php?artid=6055
 
Engine response is too flat. Not physics-wise, but sound-wise, there is no gurgling or churning sounds that all true engines make to some extent. But, this has been done to death in another thread, so that's all I'll say.

Thanks Masi_23 for your post and the link. 👍
 
Yeh, thanks Masi for the article.
I was wandering about the Elise, why it did lift off oversteer quite easily, now i know.
Being a driver on the roads i wouldn't know how the car would feel if pushed hard and to it's limits, so it's nice to see confirmation of virtual similarities to real life.
The funny thing though, is some experienced track drivers insist that standard physics feels more like the real thing than the pro settings.....weird.
 
350z is fairly accurate. seems a little less controllable in the game though. its a little too easy to spin too. but i have pointed out before that my DFP is not 100% so i dunno.
 
Simply put, Gran Turismo 5: Prologue is the embodiment of a truly groundbreaking next-gen title

No other racing game has this level of physics detail.

Nice article Masi,

I think the two statements above are a little bit over the top though ;)
(to put it mildly).
 
It's a great game, and gives a good approximation of how cars handle, but not like real driving. Some personal directly comparable examples...

A 350Z has loads more grip on regular road tyres in the wet than it has on N rated tyres on dry tarmac in the game.

A '05 Impreza will happily swing it's tail round if you trail-brake in to mid/high speed corners... though the resulting power -on understeer in this car is realistic.

Generally, there's a lack of lift-off oversteer in the 4WD and FWD cars, and fairly commical levels on the MR cars... the NSX in particular is like this. This is a car that's been called out by the motoring press as one of the easiest MR cars to drive over the years, yet it's only manageable by a few in GT5P... far too mcuh lift off oversteer, far too little rear grip/traction.

Also... on almost every car, the power delivery is too linear.

Still a great game though.
 
I've driven an 01 viper GTS on stock tires on various tracks including Laguna Seca and I was always amazed at the realism from GT4. That said, I'm even more blown away with the new game. All of the little nit pick things I would have argued about have been tweaked to be about as real as I could imagine sitting in my chair in front of a TV. I don't think that all the cars are perfect, but it's still crazy how accurately they've depicted so much real life information. The car that impresses me the most for realism is probly the EVO. It' drives alot like and EVO 9 or an STI.

BTW, While playing GT4 I always said to myself there was no way the cork screw at laguna seca (turn 8) was actually that loose... Well, I can tell you it is from the seat of my 02 WRX wagon with race tires that it really is that loose..!

Ash
 
I have a mildly tuned VW Polo GTI, smaller brother to the Golf MK V GTI, which I have tracked a bit and the handling similarities between my car and the GT5P Golf GTI are astounding. We were all spoilt for choice early on in the game when we had very little in the way of tyre restrictions then when the new classes came out not all were happy.
Where this game (and most games) differ from real life is the sensation of speed.
A good example is to take any of the medium to high performance cars and just cruise around the track at what would be the normal speed limit. (London or Eiger are good tracks for this) Even at 100KPH (63mph) this feels so slow and tedious, however in real life there is a much greater sensation of the speed you are doing.
To me, this is where peoples perceptions get distorted. They jump in a car on N tyres and expect to be able to take a hard corner at 160kph. If you do this in real life your going to be really feeling the car on edge, sliding and out of control. (for a standard car on standard tyres) and in the game the car will do the same thing, but as it doesnt FEEL like your doing 160kph the perception is the physics are wrong, the tyres are too slippery etc etc.

From my experience, any car on a track on normal tyres becomes a balancing act through corners, GT5 replicates this (in terms of my car) perfectly.
 
I agree 100%. Going 60k's/hr in the game feels like i'm doing 10.
Whenever i'm on the road, i give the car a little work over but at manageable speeds, yet when i try to replicate that in the game, i realize i'm doing 120kph just because the sense of speed just isn't there.

But the question arises. How to recreate the sense of speed?
 
Even at 100KPH (36mph) this feels so slow and tedious
Transposed numbers...

To me, this is where peoples perceptions get distorted. They jump in a car on N tyres and expect to be able to take a hard corner at 160kph. If you do this in real life your going to be really feeling the car on edge, sliding and out of control. (for a standard car on standard tyres) and in the game the car will do the same thing, but as it doesnt FEEL like your doing 160kph the perception is the physics are wrong, the tyres are too slippery etc etc.
I just want to be able to take a wide curve, while going uphill (against gravity), on Sport tires, at street speeds (20-40MPH) without sliding into the dirt. Where's Ralph Nader when we need him?

Cheers,

MasterGT
 
Originally Posted by 888 Tuning
Even at 100KPH (36mph) this feels so slow and tedious

Transposed numbers...


I just want to be able to take a wide curve, while going uphill (against gravity), on Sport tires, at street speeds (20-40MPH) without sliding into the dirt. Where's Ralph Nader when we need him?

Cheers,

MasterGT

Thanks mate fixed.. its 3:30am and have been awake since 6:30am. Im a tad sleepy :)

What particular corner are you talking about ? I cant say I have experienced the same problem, even driving Eiger in reverse for more than a few laps.. (as in the car is in "R" and Im looking out the rear window) I have also spent many laps at what would be road legal speeds and find that the let down is with the steering sensitivity at these low speeds (using a controller may affect this)
 
Thanks mate fixed.. its 3:30am and have been awake since 6:30am. Im a tad sleepy :)

What particular corner are you talking about ? I cant say I have experienced the same problem, even driving Eiger in reverse for more than a few laps.. (as in the car is in "R" and Im looking out the rear window) I have also spent many laps at what would be road legal speeds and find that the let down is with the steering sensitivity at these low speeds (using a controller may affect this)

The controller is a big issue when driving at lower speeds as it makes it tricky to be as smooth and consistent as you would be at 'road' speeds.

A good test is actually at Suzuka, as it has a corner of a known radius, 130R (actually a common and for this handy feature of a lot of Japanese tracks).

suzuka_map-732137.gif


From a radius size and a grip level you can actually calculate peak cornering speeds, using the following formula....

15GR = MPH2

...with G being the grip level and R being the radius in feet.

So if we convert the 130R corner from metres to feet we get 426.5 feet and we assume a very sticky road/track-day tyre on a race grade surface gives us a peak grip og 1g (which is maybe a bit generous - but not than far out) we get the following....

15 * 1 * 426.5 = 6,397.5 MPH2 = 79.98 MPH.

...so if we can get a car on road tyres around the 130R at approx 79-80mph then the grip levels for that tyre are close to road/track-day tyres. Keep in mind that would be peak grip and care would need to be taken to ensure that all steering and throttle inputs were are constant and smooth as possible to ensure that we can reach that peak without throwing other factors (such as exceeding the slip percentage of the tyres with aggressive throttle actions) into the mix. It also assumes a well balanced car with a close to 50/50 weight distribution, anything else would lower the speed as all four tyres would not be working equally.


Regards

Scaff
 
Nice article Masi,

I think the two statements above are a little bit over the top though ;)
(to put it mildly).

I think he said it well. Sure GTR2 and few other PC racing sim games are good too, but I think GT5 have a better feel for the cars then the PC sim games.
Play GT5P for a month. Then play GTR2. GTR game will be like a walk in a park ;)
 
The controller is a big issue when driving at lower speeds as it makes it tricky to be as smooth and consistent as you would be at 'road' speeds.

A good test is actually at Suzuka, as it has a corner of a known radius, 130R (actually a common and for this handy feature of a lot of Japanese tracks).

suzuka_map-732137.gif


From a radius size and a grip level you can actually calculate peak cornering speeds, using the following formula....

15GR = MPH2

...with G being the grip level and R being the radius in feet.

So if we convert the 130R corner from metres to feet we get 426.5 feet and we assume a very sticky road/track-day tyre on a race grade surface gives us a peak grip og 1g (which is maybe a bit generous - but not than far out) we get the following....

15 * 1 * 426.5 = 6,397.5 MPH2 = 79.98 MPH.

...so if we can get a car on road tyres around the 130R at approx 79-80mph then the grip levels for that tyre are close to road/track-day tyres. Keep in mind that would be peak grip and care would need to be taken to ensure that all steering and throttle inputs were are constant and smooth as possible to ensure that we can reach that peak without throwing other factors (such as exceeding the slip percentage of the tyres with aggressive throttle actions) into the mix. It also assumes a well balanced car with a close to 50/50 weight distribution, anything else would lower the speed as all four tyres would not be working equally.


Regards

Scaff

With N3 tyres this pretty much holds true from some runs i did this morning on this corner.
 
With N3 tyres this pretty much holds true from some runs i did this morning on this corner.

I've just run it in an NSX Type-R with N2's and at a constant 81mph in 3rd gear you can corner perfectly, with no loss of grip and generate a steady 1g of lateral grip.

Which for that car and that corner would make the grip levels fine.

It also backs up my previous tests that 'real' tyres (as in a road/track-day tyre) falls around the N2 / N3 mark.

Regards

Scaff
 
Interesting calculations Scaff 👍

Maybe there's something slightly off with the physics on the limit then? Or at least it's hard to create the subtlety in the game you can get in real life? We all know how slidy the 350Z in the GT Academy is on N3 tyres, and if these are indeed equivalent to real life fast road/track day tyres, I'd be very surprised if a real 350Z was that slidy even at eight tenths plus.

Although that said, it seems that much of the slightly 'off' traits of cars in GT can be neutralised by using something like a wheel and pedals combo - maybe it just is that GT really isn't designed for use with a controller, to the point where the physics model doesn't work with the pad.
 
Interesting calculations Scaff 👍

Maybe there's something slightly off with the physics on the limit then? Or at least it's hard to create the subtlety in the game you can get in real life? We all know how slidy the 350Z in the GT Academy is on N3 tyres, and if these are indeed equivalent to real life fast road/track day tyres, I'd be very surprised if a real 350Z was that slidy even at eight tenths plus.

Although that said, it seems that much of the slightly 'off' traits of cars in GT can be neutralised by using something like a wheel and pedals combo - maybe it just is that GT really isn't designed for use with a controller, to the point where the physics model doesn't work with the pad.

For me its a combination of factors, the first being that a descent wheel does make a huge difference. Its just to easy to go from lock to lock or from zero to wide open throttle with the controller, far quicker than you would ever be able to do in reality. The wheel and pedals help keep things happening at a more natural pace, which avoids the biggest danger of real world on the limit handling, that of not being smooth with your inputs.

In addition you have the entire lack of real feel against your body, taking 130R at 1g lateral acceleration (so 81mph on N2's in the NSX) would be something you feel and as the limit of grip was reached and exceeded you would feel the changes in these force. That feeling is one of the single biggest factors in reacting in time in the real world, and with it missing its harder to judge when the limit is stepped over.

In one of my old jobs I used to spend time deliberately pushing cars well past the limits of the tyres and chassis and I would have to say that for a lot of cars GT5P is not far off just how quickly things get bad once you step over that line. Its certainly not perfect yet (nor is it, or anything else, likely to be) but its certainly one of the best around.

The NSX was mentioned earlier in regard to how its is supposed to be the supercar that everyone can drive, well to be honest that is taking the road tests of the day (and I am old enough to clearly remember them) a litle out of context. Most of those comments were relating to how the car would not try and kill you at just about every speed, in just about every gear, we have got used to the idea of civilised supercars, but when the NSX first came along the idea of that was unheard of. It would also be closer to the truth to say that the NSX was an easy car to drive below its limits, but a trickly little devil right on the limit, the exact same can be said of the Elise. Its also worth keeping in mind that we are not talking about the plain vanilla NSX here, rather the Type R, which does also change matters slightly (as in its was designed to be the harder, faster, nastier big brother to the base car).

Regards

Scaff

Regards

Scaff
 
The only thing I don't like about GT5 is the lack of brakefade. If PD could throw in some brakefade it would make things real interesting.
 
The only thing I don't like about GT5 is the lack of brakefade. If PD could throw in some brakefade it would make things real interesting.

Oh that would be great, but my Nurburgring hot laps would suffer. :lol:
 
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