GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)
- Thread starter Cowboy
- 1,338 comments
- 185,626 views
- 230
- Naas, Ireland
- Fethard1
Tested both cars on Laguna Seca with no oil change, Comfort Softs, no TCS and ABS set to 1.
Nissan 300ZX: 1:47.467
Mazda RX-7: 1:45.524
I could've gotten better laptimes for both cars but it was pretty much a 3 lap run for both.
The 300ZX feels heavy around corners and lacks the speed even though it has more power.
The RX-7 has less power, but is lighter. It felt more fun to drive compared to the 300ZX. You can throw it around corners and be able to control it with ease.
As I said earlier on, I will always stick with rotaries even if I'm biased towards them.
The RX-7 wins this hands down.
Nissan 300ZX: 1:47.467
Mazda RX-7: 1:45.524
I could've gotten better laptimes for both cars but it was pretty much a 3 lap run for both.
The 300ZX feels heavy around corners and lacks the speed even though it has more power.
The RX-7 has less power, but is lighter. It felt more fun to drive compared to the 300ZX. You can throw it around corners and be able to control it with ease.
As I said earlier on, I will always stick with rotaries even if I'm biased towards them.
The RX-7 wins this hands down.
- 415
- Boston, MA
- littleregret265
I think it seems obvious to everyone who should (and is currently) win(ning) this battle. But I'm silently rooting for you, Nissan. Prove all them haters wrong. 
Of course, I'll see once the rubber meets the road, and I'm not too hopeful about the 300ZX actually winning this one, though I do want it to.
Of course, I'll see once the rubber meets the road, and I'm not too hopeful about the 300ZX actually winning this one, though I do want it to.
- 3,144
- Lancashire
- Ryk_BRM
Disclaimer - I like the RX7.
Okay so on paper the Fairlady looks like it has everything. Bigger Engine, More cylinders, More powah, More peak torque. More PP. More weight...oh more weight, that isn't good, is it?
Looks.
The Fairlady is pretty good, At the time it looked "mean" the front end had a very purposeful look... which the Bugatti EB110 seems to have stolen with the fixed top lamps that are a close set. The RX7 FD is a thing of beauty though. But both cars had long production runs that didn't really muck about with the lines of the car. Honestly both are slinky cars that don't melt your retina to look at.
Drive
The Fairlady was Mediocre - at times it almost felt like the rear wheels were doing some of the steering. It feels a bit sloppy and inconsistent - Drivable though but not as precise as you would first like it to be. Maybe the slightly pudgy handling will suit you. I remedy my qualms by looking at the badge - and being happy I'm not in a GT-R understeeru edition. So for a front engined rear wheel drive car it isn't that great, but better than any front wheel drive horror show or a sports off roading 4WD car.
The RX7 though is just grand. Delightfully balanced, Makes car control almost effortless, it rotates easily - so if you are a ham fisted driver you will create your own problems (oversteer) - Nice and Gentle. Driving an RX-7 is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. You've got to appreciate the curves, and caress the bodywork. Breathe softly and gently. Then savour the smells, "Is that Castrol R, You little minx!" (Censored)
Engine
The Americans have a saying - "There is no replacement for displacement" Can a twin rotor 656cc compete with a big 3 litre V6? Both have turbochargers. To be fair you have to remember the Rotary engine doesn't have much low end guts, but a bit of novice stickwork will let you sit high in the rev range getting the car gorge itself on torrents of buttery smooth power. The Nissan's V6 is nice enough reves freely and it is a better part of the comparison, If you could swap the engines stats, then the RX7 would go evenfaster and the Fairlady would go slower but the reason the Mazda's engine is so modest is a major factor in the RX7's lack of ...
Weight
The English had a saying "Simplify, then add lightness." Chunky Chapman would use this maxim to lead the world of Formula One. Less weight makes faster acceleration and less load in the corners, so your tyres can accept more speed. Also you can slow down in a shorter order as Physics tends to get a forceful when you have to deal with that pesky conservation of energy. 550lbs is a good old chunk of extra weight. (That is like a B.J.Raji and a Mason Crosby sat in the car.) But to be fair I think you have to really say that the RX7 is lighter rather than the Fairlady is a bit of a plumper. (Step away from the cake 300ZX) - The RX7 is a sporty car, and the Fairlady is more of a comfort tourer.
Paint Chips
Neither are amazing, the rest of the world version of the Fairlady has a few interesting ones, Deep Purple Metallic and a Dark Green (Who doesn't like Dark Green paint? What are you, some sort of hairdresser?) But we are just comparing the Japanese Domestic versions, I think you have to just give this to the Nissan, but it is a pretty close thing and neither have huge selection and the Iconic colours are pretty evenly matched; The Nissan just has a bit more choice.
Lap Times -
I ran alot of track time at Yamaha's Sportland Sugo way up in the north of Japan. Rolling track just under 2 and a half miles in length. I dropped the RX7 down to Comfort Softs to be fair - Though maybe the Fairlady will be better if it stepped up to semi slicks like the RX7 is issued with. - On Comfort Softs both are good, the lack of grip magnifies the handling.
Sportsland SUGO - RX7 edged it by over a second.
I also ran it on a longer, more open track (Rebel Run a 6 mile Death Valley track) - I was pretty amazed that the Fairlady kept pace with the RX7 and after the third flying lap was 2 seconds faster - Yet at Sugo the RX7 was faster. So closer matched than I expected - In Fact I am still unsure as to which is faster. Logic would say a longer open track would favour the Nissan, a tighter technical track should favour the lighter Mazda.
The Mazda was more fun to drive - just from having to balance the car so alot of added fun in the corners. The Nissan was much more meat and potatoes and you had to drive allowing for the longer breaking time and the trick was driving to avoid, turn-in understeer - once that box is ticked the lap times tumble.
Verdict.
Closer than I expected, the RX7 wins though, but once you get the feel for the Fairlady it can be quite fast.
----- Edit to add track links -----
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt6/user/#!/friend/HellaFlush_TERA/course/1264378/
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt6/user/#!/friend/nascarfan1400/course/1143384/
these links should get you to the test tracks I used,
Okay so on paper the Fairlady looks like it has everything. Bigger Engine, More cylinders, More powah, More peak torque. More PP. More weight...oh more weight, that isn't good, is it?
Looks.
The Fairlady is pretty good, At the time it looked "mean" the front end had a very purposeful look... which the Bugatti EB110 seems to have stolen with the fixed top lamps that are a close set. The RX7 FD is a thing of beauty though. But both cars had long production runs that didn't really muck about with the lines of the car. Honestly both are slinky cars that don't melt your retina to look at.
Drive
The Fairlady was Mediocre - at times it almost felt like the rear wheels were doing some of the steering. It feels a bit sloppy and inconsistent - Drivable though but not as precise as you would first like it to be. Maybe the slightly pudgy handling will suit you. I remedy my qualms by looking at the badge - and being happy I'm not in a GT-R understeeru edition. So for a front engined rear wheel drive car it isn't that great, but better than any front wheel drive horror show or a sports off roading 4WD car.
The RX7 though is just grand. Delightfully balanced, Makes car control almost effortless, it rotates easily - so if you are a ham fisted driver you will create your own problems (oversteer) - Nice and Gentle. Driving an RX-7 is very much like making love to a beautiful woman. You've got to appreciate the curves, and caress the bodywork. Breathe softly and gently. Then savour the smells, "Is that Castrol R, You little minx!" (Censored)
Engine
The Americans have a saying - "There is no replacement for displacement" Can a twin rotor 656cc compete with a big 3 litre V6? Both have turbochargers. To be fair you have to remember the Rotary engine doesn't have much low end guts, but a bit of novice stickwork will let you sit high in the rev range getting the car gorge itself on torrents of buttery smooth power. The Nissan's V6 is nice enough reves freely and it is a better part of the comparison, If you could swap the engines stats, then the RX7 would go evenfaster and the Fairlady would go slower but the reason the Mazda's engine is so modest is a major factor in the RX7's lack of ...
Weight
The English had a saying "Simplify, then add lightness." Chunky Chapman would use this maxim to lead the world of Formula One. Less weight makes faster acceleration and less load in the corners, so your tyres can accept more speed. Also you can slow down in a shorter order as Physics tends to get a forceful when you have to deal with that pesky conservation of energy. 550lbs is a good old chunk of extra weight. (That is like a B.J.Raji and a Mason Crosby sat in the car.) But to be fair I think you have to really say that the RX7 is lighter rather than the Fairlady is a bit of a plumper. (Step away from the cake 300ZX) - The RX7 is a sporty car, and the Fairlady is more of a comfort tourer.
Paint Chips
Neither are amazing, the rest of the world version of the Fairlady has a few interesting ones, Deep Purple Metallic and a Dark Green (Who doesn't like Dark Green paint? What are you, some sort of hairdresser?) But we are just comparing the Japanese Domestic versions, I think you have to just give this to the Nissan, but it is a pretty close thing and neither have huge selection and the Iconic colours are pretty evenly matched; The Nissan just has a bit more choice.
Lap Times -
I ran alot of track time at Yamaha's Sportland Sugo way up in the north of Japan. Rolling track just under 2 and a half miles in length. I dropped the RX7 down to Comfort Softs to be fair - Though maybe the Fairlady will be better if it stepped up to semi slicks like the RX7 is issued with. - On Comfort Softs both are good, the lack of grip magnifies the handling.
Sportsland SUGO - RX7 edged it by over a second.
I also ran it on a longer, more open track (Rebel Run a 6 mile Death Valley track) - I was pretty amazed that the Fairlady kept pace with the RX7 and after the third flying lap was 2 seconds faster - Yet at Sugo the RX7 was faster. So closer matched than I expected - In Fact I am still unsure as to which is faster. Logic would say a longer open track would favour the Nissan, a tighter technical track should favour the lighter Mazda.
The Mazda was more fun to drive - just from having to balance the car so alot of added fun in the corners. The Nissan was much more meat and potatoes and you had to drive allowing for the longer breaking time and the trick was driving to avoid, turn-in understeer - once that box is ticked the lap times tumble.
Verdict.
Closer than I expected, the RX7 wins though, but once you get the feel for the Fairlady it can be quite fast.
----- Edit to add track links -----
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt6/user/#!/friend/HellaFlush_TERA/course/1264378/
https://www.gran-turismo.com/us/gt6/user/#!/friend/nascarfan1400/course/1143384/
these links should get you to the test tracks I used,
Last edited:
- 1,512
- Pacific NW
- ThrasherDBS
- ThrasherDBS
This was a pretty good matchup. First let me say, I love both cars. They're both pretty balanced. Granted, the RX-7 has the trademark oversteer whereas the Z is a little heavier and has more understeer. Actually, it's a similar dynamic to the previous duel, except I actually like these cars. Also note that when you buy these cars, the RX-7 comes with Sports Hards whereas the Z comes with Comfort Softs. For the purpose of this matchup, I have both cars on Sports Hards.
These two cars are pretty similar in performance, to the point I had to do a tie-breaker trial. Since these two cars were pretty prevalent in Japan's racing scene, I wanted to do a downhill trial. Obviously there's no track in game that's strictly downhill, so I looked to the new track creator. I decided on an Andalusia track based on Mt. Akagi made by @RCKakashi14
Mountain Trial:
RX-7 - 1:54.763
300ZX - 1:54.622
City Trial:
RX-7 - 1:39.559
300ZX - 1:39.993
"Akagi" Trial:
RX-7 - 4:43.947
300ZX - 4:49.508
As you can see, the first two trials were pretty close and each walked away with one victory. However the RX-7 came out victorious on the *cough cough* Mt. Akagi trial.
I adore both cars, but the RX-7 comes out on top.
These two cars are pretty similar in performance, to the point I had to do a tie-breaker trial. Since these two cars were pretty prevalent in Japan's racing scene, I wanted to do a downhill trial. Obviously there's no track in game that's strictly downhill, so I looked to the new track creator. I decided on an Andalusia track based on Mt. Akagi made by @RCKakashi14
Mountain Trial:
RX-7 - 1:54.763
300ZX - 1:54.622
City Trial:
RX-7 - 1:39.559
300ZX - 1:39.993
"Akagi" Trial:
RX-7 - 4:43.947
300ZX - 4:49.508
As you can see, the first two trials were pretty close and each walked away with one victory. However the RX-7 came out victorious on the *cough cough* Mt. Akagi trial.
I adore both cars, but the RX-7 comes out on top.
- 255
- Spain
- alexnipi
my vote is for the z32 visual and performance on that time was one of the most fastest car in the world and nowadays is still faster capable of reach 280 kmh stock, not just top speed on acceleration was still good that beat a supra from 0-60. i cant say nothing about handling because i'm not a owner of one but i never hear anything bad about it just if the hicas system is in bad condition would be dangerous. for me those test ingame has no sense because pd do what they want in the game (grip levels, crappy stock suspension setting, gear ratios and the stock hp - power band) i dont have nothing bad to say about the rx7, i like rotary engines but that powerful vg30dett of the z32 make me loving it more
- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
- 1,512
- Pacific NW
- ThrasherDBS
- ThrasherDBS
The purpose of these duels is to get people's opinion on which of the two is better. Now, the criteria in which you personally decide which one is better is solely up to you. For me, since this is the GT6 forum, I determine which one is better by running them both on a couple of tracks and see which one has better lap times, whilst also taking into account how easy to drive they are or how fun they feel, and I vote accordingly.
For other people, it could be a simple matter of which one looks more pleasing to the eye, or what kind of history the car has. Say if the 1992 Peugeot 902 was put up against the 1991 Mazda 787B. Both are incredibly fast LeMans prototypes that won LeMans in their respective years. However, the Mazda has the distinction of being simultaneously the only rotary-powered car and the only Japanese car ever to win the 24 hours of LeMans. Things like that.
When I'm testing out two cars, I seek to answer the question "which car will be consistently the fastest around a track?" Usually, the cost of the two cars is similar in terms of GT6's economy so that never really plays a factor in my testing. So the lap times I set on the courses are a way of being as objective as I possibly can. If one car feels like a handful while the other is not, yet there's a tie, that's where my subjective judgement comes in.
Everyone has their own criteria. None of which is "pointless".
For other people, it could be a simple matter of which one looks more pleasing to the eye, or what kind of history the car has. Say if the 1992 Peugeot 902 was put up against the 1991 Mazda 787B. Both are incredibly fast LeMans prototypes that won LeMans in their respective years. However, the Mazda has the distinction of being simultaneously the only rotary-powered car and the only Japanese car ever to win the 24 hours of LeMans. Things like that.
When I'm testing out two cars, I seek to answer the question "which car will be consistently the fastest around a track?" Usually, the cost of the two cars is similar in terms of GT6's economy so that never really plays a factor in my testing. So the lap times I set on the courses are a way of being as objective as I possibly can. If one car feels like a handful while the other is not, yet there's a tie, that's where my subjective judgement comes in.
Everyone has their own criteria. None of which is "pointless".
- 5,636
- North Dakota
- RacingCowboy570
- RacingCowboy570
@ThrasherDBS you deserve a cookie 👍
- 3,196
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
If the 300ZX was worth about $4,000 more, that would make it worth the extra cash, because rotary engines in the past (specifically the Wankel engines on the pre-facelift FDs) were notorious for their [lack of] reliability. From all of what I read about them, they tended to either overheat or wear down too quickly, and because rotary engines aren't common, parts were hard to come by and servicing them would blow a hole in your wallet, which made the situation even worse. And also, in order to take good care of your rotary engine, you'd have to be extremely gentle with it when starting it up, like you have to let it heat up on a certain rpm for a certain amount of time before you go. It feels like you're starting up a spaceship; you can't just turn on the ignition, start the engine and drive off. There has to be a sequence of things you need to do and you always need to do them in the exact same order every time.
Still, that didn't stop rotaries from being popular. Behind the wheel, everything makes sense. If someone would ask me a perfect example of a "sports car", the Mazda RX-7 would be one of the first things I would have in mind. Can't wait to get some laps out of this and the 300ZX over the weekend.
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- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
I'm the guy who warms his car up for 3-5 minutes before setting off in the morning and doesn't drop the hammer for at least 5 miles, and I let it cool down for about a minute before shutting it down, so caring for a sensitive, tender rotary engine wouldn't be hard for me.
I think I need to trade up to an RX-8...
I think I need to trade up to an RX-8...
Pete05
Premium
- 6,963
- Melbourne, Australia
You're the sort of guy I'd happily buy a car off then. I'm the same with my car. It doesn't move until the temp gauge has moved above cold.
I always warms the car for few minutes before setting off, but it's already above cold when starting up...
Pete05
Premium
- 6,963
- Melbourne, Australia
So after running a back to back comparison between the contenders at the Nordschleife, the RX-7 records a 8:01:145 against the Nissan's 8:04:499. Even with all the Zed's extra power, it was only 4 km/h faster at the end of the 3km long straight.
Both cars were run on Sports Hard tyres in Arcade Mode Time Trial with grip set to Real. I use a DS3 with D-pad for steering, X for accelerator, [] for brake & manual gears.
Both cars were run on Sports Hard tyres in Arcade Mode Time Trial with grip set to Real. I use a DS3 with D-pad for steering, X for accelerator, [] for brake & manual gears.
- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
It's too bad the earliest RX-7 we get in GT6 is the '85 FC. It would have been cool to do this:
The original RX-7, 1978, versus the 1978 Nissan 280Z.
The original RX-7, 1978, versus the 1978 Nissan 280Z.
- 1,804
- Pennsylvania
- dayofwar2009
- PSN#2 Roob_OG
Are these meant to be compared stock?
- 5,636
- North Dakota
- RacingCowboy570
- RacingCowboy570
Yes.
:selfish: : punny:
- 3,417
- NJ
- Rave2Grave
Feel free to modify them to the max and test them that way. Would be fair to get a sense of how they compare stock vs. fully modified.
- 6,226
- Ottawa
- Pyano1132
I recorded times on my point to point track, it's six and a half km long and starts out fairly technical, then there are two long straights at the end
RX7: 2:27.8
Fairlady: 2:32.9
The 300ZX lost most of its time in the corners because of its weight, however without traction control the 300 was more planted than the RX7, which was pointlessly oversteering most of the time.
I will post times of them with no tc later
RX7: 2:27.8
Fairlady: 2:32.9
The 300ZX lost most of its time in the corners because of its weight, however without traction control the 300 was more planted than the RX7, which was pointlessly oversteering most of the time.
I will post times of them with no tc later
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- 3,196
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
Right, onto the reviews, then. Lap times were done in Laguna Seca, and are available in both Onboard and Replay cameras, by yours truly.
Mazda efini RX-7 Type R(FD) '91:
Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Twin Turbo '89:
Ahh yes, the Mazda efini RX-7 FD. I was already expecting it to be not as good as it actually is, and I was right. While I was doing my first few laps I was surprised that it doesn't grip that much when going around corners. The tires screech as if struggling for grip, not the kind of screech that resists sliding. The rear end also likes to slide around a lot. When trying to push this car to its limits, I sort of sense that there's not enough weight pressing onto the tires. Few more laps later, I kind of gotten the trick on how to drive the car. Y'see, you CAN actually push this car to its limits, but you have to push it "right". The solution to avoid having the car slide around is to turn in earlier than you normally would, then making sure there's enough weight pressing the FRONT tires down so that the REAR tires won't slide. I know that doesn't make sense at first, but trust me, you'd understand it once you're driving the car. I had to manage both the brakes and the throttle during corners just so I could corner as fast as I can. But hey, it worked, and it did go around corners fairly quick.
Now, for the 300ZX Twin Turbo Z32. Interesting in that this car has C:S tires as stock, whilst the FD has S:H. In the interest of science, I tried to drive the Z32 in C:S just to see how it would fair against the FD, and it was pointless. Couldn't get a lap done without being 3-4 seconds slower, and so I fitted S:H tires on it, just to even the playing field. After driving around a few corners, the Z32 has this rather disturbing and annoying understeer problem. It's not the "good" understeer like the Tuscan's from last weeks' Duel. No, it's bad understeer that forces you to slow down more than you should, just so you'd be able to clear a corner. I know for sure my racing lines are spot on, but I had to let the throttle off for quite long just to follow the racing line, just so the Z32 wouldn't plow on towards the grass or gravel when exiting corners. That significantly lowered my cornering speed, which really annoyed me. You can't push this car to its limits. You just can't. Once you go past its limits, the car forces you to go back below its limits. Another downside of this car is that, while it may have the more powerful engine, its gear ratios were quite odd. Some gears were close to each other, others were quite far. This is the case with 3rd gear. I don't know about you all, but 3rd gear is a bit too long for this kind of engine power, which made the Z32 struggle on uphills. Once it shifts to 4th, however, it pulls. On that first uphill straight, it lags a bit behind the FD, but on the second uphill straight after the left-hander, it started to catch up. Still, the mighty engine wasn't enough to beat the FD.
I'm honestly surprised in that, while the Z32 has the more powerful engine and more PP, and it has uprated tires (just to be able to match the FD), it was slower than the FD on every single lap I made. That's because the FD is more consistent around corners. However, trying to manage the weight pushing the front tires down around corners isn't exactly favorable whenever you're in a tight race. It would take an immense amount of concentration to do, or else you'll just end up sliding and crashing the car, and possible wasting your precious 1st or 2nd place. To sum up my review, I dunno. It would have to be a TIE this week, but it's not a tie I am fond of.
Mazda efini RX-7 Type R(FD) '91:
Nissan Fairlady Z 300ZX Twin Turbo '89:
Ahh yes, the Mazda efini RX-7 FD. I was already expecting it to be not as good as it actually is, and I was right. While I was doing my first few laps I was surprised that it doesn't grip that much when going around corners. The tires screech as if struggling for grip, not the kind of screech that resists sliding. The rear end also likes to slide around a lot. When trying to push this car to its limits, I sort of sense that there's not enough weight pressing onto the tires. Few more laps later, I kind of gotten the trick on how to drive the car. Y'see, you CAN actually push this car to its limits, but you have to push it "right". The solution to avoid having the car slide around is to turn in earlier than you normally would, then making sure there's enough weight pressing the FRONT tires down so that the REAR tires won't slide. I know that doesn't make sense at first, but trust me, you'd understand it once you're driving the car. I had to manage both the brakes and the throttle during corners just so I could corner as fast as I can. But hey, it worked, and it did go around corners fairly quick.
Now, for the 300ZX Twin Turbo Z32. Interesting in that this car has C:S tires as stock, whilst the FD has S:H. In the interest of science, I tried to drive the Z32 in C:S just to see how it would fair against the FD, and it was pointless. Couldn't get a lap done without being 3-4 seconds slower, and so I fitted S:H tires on it, just to even the playing field. After driving around a few corners, the Z32 has this rather disturbing and annoying understeer problem. It's not the "good" understeer like the Tuscan's from last weeks' Duel. No, it's bad understeer that forces you to slow down more than you should, just so you'd be able to clear a corner. I know for sure my racing lines are spot on, but I had to let the throttle off for quite long just to follow the racing line, just so the Z32 wouldn't plow on towards the grass or gravel when exiting corners. That significantly lowered my cornering speed, which really annoyed me. You can't push this car to its limits. You just can't. Once you go past its limits, the car forces you to go back below its limits. Another downside of this car is that, while it may have the more powerful engine, its gear ratios were quite odd. Some gears were close to each other, others were quite far. This is the case with 3rd gear. I don't know about you all, but 3rd gear is a bit too long for this kind of engine power, which made the Z32 struggle on uphills. Once it shifts to 4th, however, it pulls. On that first uphill straight, it lags a bit behind the FD, but on the second uphill straight after the left-hander, it started to catch up. Still, the mighty engine wasn't enough to beat the FD.
I'm honestly surprised in that, while the Z32 has the more powerful engine and more PP, and it has uprated tires (just to be able to match the FD), it was slower than the FD on every single lap I made. That's because the FD is more consistent around corners. However, trying to manage the weight pushing the front tires down around corners isn't exactly favorable whenever you're in a tight race. It would take an immense amount of concentration to do, or else you'll just end up sliding and crashing the car, and possible wasting your precious 1st or 2nd place. To sum up my review, I dunno. It would have to be a TIE this week, but it's not a tie I am fond of.
