GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    It won't invalidate your times for wrecking or going off course. Now, we run on honor system so you don't take shortcuts, but still, an attempt is an attempt.
     
  2. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Alright, I'll be sure to not cross the finish line in reverse.
     
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  3. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Well let me put it like this, The Tomahawk Benchmark has been raised 10 fold. :sly:
     
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  4. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    That's the spirit Waflz!

    Pretend and Vic, I know we'll be glad to have another set of strong competitors in here. Wouldn't be a proper sendoff without my rivals and the two racers that leave me choking on their dust.
     
  5. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Are my times still posted if I go off track?
     
  6. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    They definitely are. Like I said, if you wreck or go off course, the time will still count. I wrecked many many times when posting my attempts in both cars.
     
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  7. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

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    I hope to do my attempts either tonight or tomorrow morning. :)
     
  8. pretend racer

    pretend racer

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    So I jumped in the red bull x2014 first and did 3 warm up laps before starting my TT. I had the abs on 1, TC on 1, and SRF off.
    It turns out once you get used to the speed this is a great little race car. It revs for days! The steering is direct and quick but accurate and easy to modulate. The brakes are amazing. It hugs the road in the high speed corners like nothing else. I quite enjoyed driving it

    When I jumped in the room, I didn't bother reading the details of the TT, I figured it would be one lap for some reason. My first lap was the fastest because I kept driving into the wall on T1 because I kept thinking it would be over at the end of the lap and so I just drove through the finish line without braking for T1, lol. When your driving that fast you don't have time to look at the clock!


    Next was the tomahawk, abs1, TC1, SRF off. I did the same 3 warm up laps but they no where near as successful as my laps in the red bull.
    I wish I had of driven this car first because I couldn't get a handle on it after driving the red bull. The suspension is too stiff for the ring, so the bumps in the road throw you around. The steering is so quick that's it almost ridiculous, I was over correcting way too much as a result. The throttle does something weird with the space-time continuum because you just don't accelerate in that car you just materialize further down the track going Mach speed and then you realize the brakes are not that good.
    To compensate for this cars idiosyncrasies I'd brake early, try not hit the curbs at all (which means death because the wheels leave the ground easily) probably end up hitting then anyways, then babying the throttle till it was straight, then concentrate on not over correcting when it got pushed around by the bumps. The ring sure felt a lot narrower when driving this car.

    My vote is for the red bull x2014! No doubt about it!


    Well I wanted to try the red bull again to see if I could beat my official time but this time I'd be using SRF on! Long story - short, I couldn't do it, I was 3s slower...?! I thought that was weird because I thought SRF is supposed to make you faster.
    I will say the car didn't feel quite as planted and seemed to squirm its way through the corners which was a bit unsettling at times.



    Anyways, thanks for everything Cowboy I have really enjoyed my time time here, hope to meet you again on the flip side!
     
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  9. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Sorry I don't do the online time trials. - Just imagine a time 107% off the pace, that didn't cut corners or run off track had big smoky lock ups into a brake zone, loads of opposite lock in a corner and wheelspin on corner exits. (And probably a horn and a few flashing headlamps over the lap)
    I had a try once but had more disco's than a John Travolta themed scientology convention.

    Have to say I admire you lot for taking these pups to Nurburg: Full. - I have an old school rule of "Crash it = Buy a new car" and I doubt I have the patience to gradually turn up the John Wick and build up my pace at the Ring for that -

    "It was only a 280mph head on impact into an Armco barrier - the Mechanics will have the TomahawkX back together before lunch. - The driver... well Essarhtee Driver Unit 003 had erm, it had a catastrophic hydraulic pump failure, and once we scoop what was left out of the cockpit we will install Essarhtee Driver Unit 004 and we will be ready to run in Free Practice 2 - Unfortunately the heartless FIA have imposed a 3 place grid penalty." SRT Team Manager- , Nurburgring, Somewhere in Germany, Yesterday.

    I have run them both at Route X - plain sailing.
    Then thought I would run at LeMans... and the bumps killed the fun - I am currently running them at Cape Ring Exterior as it is a pretty smooth track but the BIG HAIRY JUMP makes for a good example of why the Newey Suckah X2014 Car is so much easier to drive even if it does have Race Hards and the Essarhtee has some Race Softs, all the way from the Future!

    It isn't as simple as picking the Newey car because it is fast as it does have horrendously overpriced Cat Crunchy flavoured fizzy drink branding on it. - And you can't paint the thing (I bought two X2014's like a proper idiot before I realised this!) The Essarhtee lets you respray but retain the secondary colour... Letting you tribute a favourite Sports Team.
     
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  10. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

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    Right, time for a little catch up...

    Battle of the Touring Cars: Altezza vs Mazda6
    (No photos, my USB is full and I need to get a new one)

    In the first GT game, there was the Toyota Chaser LM Edition. In GT2, this was replaced by the Toyota Altezza LM Edition, and in GT3 it was replaced again by the Altezza Touring Car. This model has then been ported over the GT games over the years, and so here it is! It used to pack nearly 600bhp in Gran Turismo 3, but in GT4 onwards, it was cut down to 300bhp. Because.....? :eek:
    For this duel, I raced with no aids. It displayed respectable pace around the Tsukuba circuit, with no threat of oversteer or any real fighting. I managed to whittle my time down to 56.720 seconds, which I was quite happy with.

    Now for the Mazda6. It's newer than the Altezza, introduced in GT4, so it looks a bit better as far as polygons and body quality. This thing pumps out 295bhp, and sends that power to all four wheels. The 4WD is, I reckon, designed to make it easier to drive, more forgiving, you know, for less experienced drivers. However, when pitted against an FR car in a 1-on-1 duel, one thing kills it. Understeer. I couldn't get anywhere near the lines I needed to at the same pace as the Altezza, I had to slow right down or understeer right off the track. On the straights, it didn't have the power to make up for this loss, and I logged a 58.766 second best time.

    The winner here is quite clearly the Altezza. (But we all know that already...) :sly:
    And now we come to the grand finale...
    Mad vs Madder!!! (X2014 vs X) :gtpflag:

    I decided to start with the X2014. This baby has less power than its predecessor, the X2011, but it has a revised aero package to make up for it. It took some getting used to on the notorious 'ring, but once I had found my limits it was relatively simple to keep on the track. Okay. I lie. Any race on the Nurburgring is long, tedious, and really drains my stamina, to the point where I can't last more than a few laps in a single sitting. Regardless, I managed to do a 4:50.882 around the 'ring in the RedBull.

    The Tomahawk X is borderline undriveable. Really. What were the folks at SRT thinking? The Tomahawk S is the most usable of the three. It can be de-tuned to 650pp or 700pp, making it suitable for rivalling SuperGT cars or some LeMans cars. The GTS-R can be detuned to become a neat 750pp racer, but other than that it falls into a no mans land as far as PP relevance. As for the X, well I feel like it's only purpose in life is to de-throne the RedBull X cars as the fastest in a straight line. Around the ring it is even more harrowing to drive then the X2014, and only really feels good in a straight line, because you know you're not going to crash there. But it couldn't even handle the slight left hander after that straight, crashing on both of my TT attempts. My time? 5:16.061.

    My pick for the winner here is the X2014
    . It's a bonkers car, but the Tomahawk is too bonkers. SSRX is the only place I'll ever comfortably use it. The X2014 has huge grip at all speeds thanks to the rear fan, but the Tomahawk's active aero doesn't have the same feeling of safety to it, despite looking way cooler. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  11. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    I'm actually getting faster times on the 'ring with the Tomahawk because the X2014 punishes you whenever you go near the grass.

    Also haaaa Thrasher, I beat you in the Tomahawk!
     
  12. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    See what happens when you get out there and post some times?

    I'm very pleased with the turnout we've gotten on this duel. Wonder if there's any more people that are going to try their hand at each of these cars.
     
  13. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Well I think I'll try to post some times today. Kinda interesting that I'm able to push the X2014 more than the Tomahawk from experience.
     
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  14. Vic Reign93

    Vic Reign93 Premium

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    Ok let's not kid ourselves here, the Tomahawk X and the RBX2014 Fan Car are fantasy world rocket ships, but they go about getting to the same place in two entirely different ways. :)

    The X2014 is the latest version of the Red Bull Fan cars and its least powerful of them at around 1250hp(!), but courtesy of a lower rear wing and more streamlined design it's top speed is not to majorly different compared to its more powerful predecessors.

    Using all sorts of banned from F1 technology and techniques, The X2014 sticks to the road regardless of speed.

    The X version of the SRT Tomahawk on the other hand goes off the rails in terms of specification.

    Using a near as makes no difference F1 Spec 7 litre V10 combined with a powerful pneumatic system, The Tomahawk X makes a mind-blowing near 2700hp after an oil change. :eek:

    Both are also absolute featherweights too with the X2014 sitting at just under 550kg and the Tomahawk X at just under 750kg.

    Now how they drive is also completely different as well.

    Both can really stop on a dime, but the Tomahawk is much more ferocious in shedding speed and it's the same with regaining speed as well.

    Now the X2014 has one big advantage compared to the Tomahawk and that is its initial approachability, its easier to get to grips with the cars limits.

    The Tomahawk X strikes back with its active aero and pneumatic systems and the ability to go from High downforce to Low downforce at the push of the button.

    At the Ring, the times at the end of it all were close, just over half a second difference in my hands. :eek:

    Tomahawk X did a 3:58.578 and the X2014 did a 3:57.916. :drool:

    But even the X2014 was faster, it's not the one I vote for and now i'll explain why.

    Because the X2014 uses a fan to keep it stuck to the road, if you were to interfere with the suction by say, hitting a kerb or dropping a wheel or two onto the grass, it becomes very unstable and factor in the X2014 being rear drive, you better pray to whoever you pray to that you can catch it in time. :p

    Speaking of catching it, in the faster corners the back can step out due to the downforce levels in stock form and it can shake your confidence in going flat out through the turns.

    So the X2014 is easier to approach initially, but push too hard and it can become unpredictable, especially if it's constant suction is interfered with.

    As such, I spent more time with the X2014 getting it under the 4:00 min barrier in comparison to the Tomahawk X.

    If you went off track in the Tomahawk, you had strong aerodynamic traction and 4wd to help manage the power and try and bring it back under control.

    One point that should be noted, the Tomahawk X was designed around the RS tyres compared to the X2014's RH tyres and we could only use the RH tyres in the time trial.

    So even the Tomahawk barely lost in my hands, it still gets my vote because I could trust it when it came to going for a fast run, I knew how it would react if I did a certain action with it, plus with its adjustable downforce levels at the push of a button you get more flexibility with the Tomahawk in terms of pace.

    Verdict: Tomahawk X ;):tup:
     
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  15. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Sorry this isn't fancy, but it's what I got in the time I have to write. The Tomahawk in my opinion is the better car. Driving the two cars on the Nurburgring brought out their tendencies in extreme cornering situations. The fact that the X2014 spins almost any time you touch the grass has frustrated me to no end. It's lead me to not want to write a full review on the car. The Tomahawk is much easier to control after hitting a patch and won't automatically send you into reverse. The X2014 is also extremely twitchy in the braking areas, while the Tomahawk felt more natural (only by a bit). I also think the Tomahawk was better due to the built-in endless nitro button and the higher top speed. It also felt closer to a supercar than an F1 car. The X2014 is what you get when you create the ultimate F1 car without safe regulations, it's probably what we would have seen if the rules of the 80's lived on and cars became faster instead of downsizing and slowing down. I like the way the Tomahawk sounds, it sounds like the backing track to a techno song, while the X2014 sounds like complete ear-rape. Not to mention that you save the paint chips on the Tomahawk too.

    So my final vote on this thread is the SRT Tomahawk VGT,

    and the verdict is that y'all should come out to Duel of The Week 2.
     
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  16. Ryk

    Ryk

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    bannertomahawk.jpg

    *** Round One *** Fear my Powah ***

    Tomahawk X -- 2586bhp
    Newey X2014- 1193bhp

    The Tomahawk has a brutal amount of raw power. It is hard to see a car with almost 1200bhp be considered a limp lettuce of a power plant. BUT it is competing with "D'Few-Chah Kid" I love the Boston Accent -

    Tomahawk X -- 10 <>Newey X2014- 7​

    *** Round Two *** The Fat Tub of Lard Factor ***

    X Factor? Lets see which car has the Gravitas and which is more effected by gravity...
    Tomahawk X -- 749kg 46:54
    Newey X2014-- 545kg 46:54

    The Essarhtee is packing the horseshoes in the engine area and those powered aero surfaces need to be strong, the unsprung mass of the car is very light but when you compete with a bloke called Adrian, then very light isn't enough, The Newey X2014 has 450lbs of an advantage... which is about four hungry Joanna Jedrzejczyks

    Tomahawk X -- 7(17) <>Newey X2014- 10(17)

    *** Round Three *** Twisting Melons ***

    Tomahawk X -- 124kgfm
    Newey X2014- 59.8kgfm

    Not alot you can say here the detuned engine in the X2014 cannot compete with torque all the way from the future of the year 2035 when the Deseret Autonomous Region will finally end its decade long war with the "so called" Republic of California over ownership of the Mormon City State of Las Vegas... tomfuture.jpg

    Tomahawk X -- 10(27) <>Newey X2014- 8(25)​


    *** Round Four *** Top Speed Test - Route X***
    No ABS, No Traction Control, No Turbo boosty cheaty buttons... hmm. Do I have to dig out the owners manual for this... I am sure there was a "Relax the aero" switcheroo on the Essarhtee.

    Tomahawk X -- 3m03.6 (372mph)
    Newey X2014- 3m43.7 (305mph)
    (I need to put in the nitro button to "ensleekenify" the Essarhtee.)

    Tomahawk X -- 10(37) <>Newey X2014- 8(33)​


    *** Round Five *** The Price is Right ***
    Tomahawk X -- 1,000,000 Kazula (And a set of Race Soft Tyres)
    Newey X2014- 6,000,000 Kazula (And a set of Race Hard Tyres)

    Well the price differential is harsh... but you have to factor in the need for a Time Machine to buy the Essarhtee... Even a "The Doctors Time And Relative Distance In Space Cargo Haulage Hire" (Silly name I know) from your earth year 2045 will set you back 10,000,000 kazula per ton of mass of items you need temporally displaced... which runs up to.... 7,490,000 kazula... pretty steep (I Tried Rufus's Circuits of Time but couldn't fit the Tomahawk inside, Bogus! But who doesn't like the future?) - Of course if you want to run the X2014 in the future you can just... wait for the future to happen.


    Tomahawk X -- 10(47) <>Newey X2014- 7(40)​


    *** Round Six *** Winners always look good ***
    Pretty Subjective, The X2014 looks plausible on the outside, Nothing really fanciful, In fact the engine is much more reasonable than the 2010 version of the car.
    The Essarhtee - It is a flight of fancy and Carbon Nanotubes and bleeding edge ultratech would come at a huge price that the 1,000,000 price tag just doesn't square with me. The active surface aero feels very Heath Robinson, the deployment alone would create sheer forces on the aero and a lot of energy would be transferred into these aero blades which would drastically upset the balance of the car... But if I can calm my Vulcan Blood for a minute its does make the car interesting... In fact I have to split this one, I don't like the covered fronts wheel pods on the Newey car and the back end of the Essarhtee seems like an after thought.

    Tomahawk X -- 10(57) <>Newey X2014- 10 (50)

    *** Round Seven *** The Colour of Space ***
    Paint chips and the Essarhtee has a big range of twelve basic options, a secondary colour stays letting an owner customise the look of the car in a pleasing fashion. The Newey has two Full Race options a Normal Red Bull can or a Sugar Free Silver Red Bull Can or you can run with a few coloured options Monochromed yellow, red, white, silver or...silver. You get the A Sebby V logo on the cockpit sides in every version which is a shame.

    Have to give points to the Essarhtee for more options the ability to respray it and also to retain a secondary colour...


    Tomahawk X -- 10(67) <>Newey X2014- 9(59)​


    *** Round Eight *** Cape Ring Xterior - X cars only ***
    (This test was run ABS=0, TCS=0 and I still had not bolted on the Tomahawks aerodynamic retractorizer.)
    Tomahawk X -- 60.4
    Newey X2014- 56.1

    The X2014 was silky easy to fling about. The Tomahawk was much more understeer ... well really the car was unable to turn as fast so the car would plough off wider than you thought. If the X2014 is a scalpel then the Tomahawk is like a basic axe...

    Tomahawk X -- 7(74) <>Newey X2014- 10(69)

    *** Round Nine *** Fun to drive? ***
    The Flappy aero blade control surfaces really unsettle the Tomahawk for me, It also didn't give me much confidence in the high speed "Swee-pahs" bleeding out wide even in a heavily banked corner - The Newey was stuck to the road like a week old road kill, As I enjoy staying inside the white lines and never go curb crawling like the GT6 Hotlapping Community I had nothing but eyes on stalks threading the super stable needle. The Tomahawk seemed to shudder about as it applied its "magic aero" effect.
    And if you do hit a crest... The Tomahawk will try to move into low earth orbit. tommafly.jpg

    - The Newey car does get airborne... But you can plant the landing like 4'6" tall Gymnast.


    Tomahawk X -- 8(82) <>Newey X2014- 10(79)

    *** Round Ten *** Action Replays ***
    Tomahawk X -- Looks like comedy dance act as it goes about its business. Flappy Jazz hands and throwing shapes? No.
    Newey X2014- Considering it is 21 years younger and based off a much older design it looks much more futuristic - It looks sleek and elegant as it flashes along the track like a Nap of the Earth fast jet bombing run.

    Tomahawk X -- 7(89) <>Newey X2014- 10(89)

    Draw? Looks like the ref is going to have to make a decision...

    Guess it is down to me... On Performance terms the Tomahawk has the whip hand on the flat out skill free bits. The X2014 has the ability to take much more lateral G in a corner, The Tomahawk isn't as good in the corners and it is a real chore in them... I guess that sorted my head out.
    winner.jpg
    Ryk Recommends the Newey X2014.
     
  17. MOPARbarrett5

    MOPARbarrett5 Premium

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    I don't have the reflexes to drive these at the Nurb, but I have driven both quite a bit. The X2014 does handle better, but it was proven in the past that the Tomahawk X is better on the track in the best hands.
    In anyone's hands though, the Tomahawk is way faster on the straights. I can't drive either of these well around corners, but on the straights I'll definitely choose the Tomahawk.
    So my pick is the Tomahawk, for racing and for having as an awesome avatar.
     
  18. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    I was late in testing those 2 but had a tt using the settings used in the room used by you guys (although I put real grip settings :nervous:). My times were very messy using 6axis and not having much time to try for better ones (I know: excuses, excuses...):

    X2014: 4'53"

    SRT: 4'57"

    I like Tomahawk more but I admire Newey's creation as well since that is closer to reality from a technical aspect but SRT offers more fun when driven through its power, balance, aero moving parts and the optical effect those offer that is very profound from the outside in the replays. X2014 is very grippy but not suitable for Nordsleife because of the high curbs as it gets thrown around much and loses the contact to the track very easily. They both need absolute concentration to be driven fast. Well done for your times in the TT guys!

    My vote goes to SRT.

    And a very big THANK YOU to our Cowboy for this great idea and all the best to his college life as well.
     
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  19. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The Tomahawk. More specifically, the Tomahawk X. We have three versions to play with in GT6, the "street legal" S, the race bred GTS-R, and then we have a 2,500 hp fire breathing piece of machinery from the deepest area of hell, the X. The X is obviously the fastest of the three, capable of hitting 400+ mph, and having moar downforce for those things called corners. Even with that downforce though, it still doesn't turn the greatest, BUT the brakes. Oh boy the brakes. Slamming the brakes at over 400mph will bring you to a complete stop within five seconds, which is almost impossible. The X is a car that wants and tries quite hard to beat the Red Bull X cars, and it comes close. On tracks like Monza, the Tomahawk will probably obliterate a fan car, but on the Green Hell, the fan car still prevails.

    Then we have the X car before the Tomahawk, the X2014. The fan cars have been around since 2010, and they've had a great deal of hate from players. I always see rooms online that ban the Red Bulls and Tomahawks because a lot of people think that drivers of those cars are nothing but trolls. Sure, that could be the case, but for me I like to push these to their limit, and when I tested the X2014, I don't think I got even close to its limit. Basically, this car is the opposite of the Tomahawk. It favors cornering more than speed (in this case). This car does in fact prove that 3,000 hp isn't needed to drive fast, you just need to put in some imagination with the internals. Yes, the Tomahawk does do that, but the Red Bull is powered by a wind turbine, eliminating the need for a heavy engine. This week my choice is.....

    The X2014.

    Both cars tested at the Nürburgring Nordshliefe, RH tires.

    X2014: 4:16.934
    Tomahawk X: 4:27.718

    And the votes:

    X2014: 6
    Tomahawk X: 4

    And the winner is.....

    maxresdefault.jpg
    The X2014 Fan Car!!!

    Instead of mentioning the winner, I'll just post a full leader board for each car ;)

    X2014 Leaderboard

    @Vic Reign93: 3:57.916
    @Cowboy: 4:16.934
    @pretend racer: 4:25.405
    @ThrasherDBS: 4:39.95
    @Nismonath5: 4:50.882
    @MrWaflz55: 5:07.640
    @Draggon: 5:23.880

    Tomahawk X Leaderboard

    @Vic Reign93: 3:58.578
    @Cowboy: 4:27.718
    @MrWaflz55: 4:50.812
    @ThrasherDBS: 4:59.512
    @pretend racer: 5:02.500
    @Nismonath5: 5:16.061

    Quite the turnout this week, though I will say that Vic could very well be SRT's Tomahawk test driver if it does end up going into production :sly:. So yea, that's all for me , but be sure to check out the sequel to the DOTW which would be the GT6 Duel of the Week 2, which will be ran by MrWaflz55. For people who might be thinking that I'm leaving GTPlanet, do not be alarmed. I will still be here, it's just that someone else will be taking over the throne as "fearless leader". I just don't want to keep delaying things until the next day because of my laziness or somewhat busy schedule. But enough of my chatter. The next duel will be announced whenever Waflz feels like it, so I guess you could call it week #71 if you wish, but do what you will. I'll try to participate in there too, so i'm not completely gone from this quite yet.

    Cheers :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2016