GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. JDMKING13

    JDMKING13 Premium

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    Nice cant wait to try this!!
     
  2. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Even though the next duel has started, you are welcome to do reviews of previous duels if you wish. I don't wanna rule anyone out of participation here :D:tup:
     
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  3. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    The NSX is playful while the Griffith puts up a fight. I'm not sure why the TVR has so much understeer, although its weight distribution of 54/46 is sub-optimal.

    Honda NSX Type R '92
    3.0L
    284 hp / 7,000 rpm
    226 ft-lb / 5,500 rpm
    1,230 kg (2,712 lbs)
    463 pp

    TVR Griffith 500 '94
    5.0L
    340 hp / 5,500 rpm
    351 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
    1,060 kg (2,337 lbs)
    495 pp

    Points given to the TVR for its big American-like 5.0 V8 and super-low weight. If only its suspension was given as much love as its engine bay. On the opposite spectrum, the NSX Type R '92 is the first Type R ever produced by Honda, and is ultra-rare. I'd rather own the NSX, any day. If I want something lightweight with a big V8 up front, I'll buy a cheap Mazda MX-5 and stuff a Corvette engine under the hood :mischievous:




    On the front straightaway, the TVR was 8 mph faster, topping out at 150 mph versus 142 for the NSX.
     
  4. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    HONDA NSX TYPE R '92 VS TVR GRIFFITH 500 '94 REVIEW/COMPARISON

    "Is horsepower a real form of compensation for handling?"
    image.jpeg

    First off, like usual I took them down to my hill climb track, (1 lap only per each car) and got some surprising results. Both cars were within a tenth of a second from each other, with the NSX squeezing out a minute .021 milliseconds lead over the Griffith.
    NSX: 2:19.501
    Griffith: 2:19.522
    As for the feel of the cars, the Honda feels leagues more planted than the TVR, but the Honda also lacks the power. I feel Ayrton Senna's influence helped win it the point over the Griffith.

    Point goes to the NSX.

    Then I took them to my four kilometre drag strip (this time I subtracted 17 seconds off the times to compensate for setting it up) and needless to say the TVR obliterated the NSX on the drag strip, making it look like a fiat 500, the chameleon blue monster flew away toward the horizon infront of my Honda.
    NSX: 47 seconds
    Griffith: 44.5 seconds
    So yes, here on the strip power is really good compensation for handling.

    Point to the TVR.

    Now on to customization, there really is none, big surprise given both cars are standard, but the Griffith has three special wings ported over from GT5, they're smaller than the other wings so they look a little better. As for the NSX, it looks better without external mods anywho.

    Point to neither?

    As for paint chips, the NSX has 9 paint chips, a whopping three whites, two silvers, one black, one red, one yellow, and OH GOD, that green. It's my favourite colour for the Honda NSX and I just love it so much! However on the other end of the colour scale we have the TVR, known for their epic pearlescent paints that shift before your eyes, the Griffith has none of those, but it does have 10 decent paint chips.

    Point to both because... dat green tho.

    Now on to tuning, the NSX is by far the best, Ferrari beater all the way, I sadly never see the TVR online, overshadowed by the Tuscan and Tamora. However, the TVR does have much untapped potential in its engine bay! The NSX wins in popularity and the TVR wins in potential.

    Point to both.

    Now on to drifting, both are equally well off if used in the right hands.

    Point to both.

    As for looks, I love the NSX so much, and the TVR just screams obscure 90's-Early 00's supercar that I have a very big soft spot for, thanks, top trumps ultimate cars 2 book...

    Point for dem both.

    As for sounds, the TVR sounds very muscular but the NSX has a nice V6 to it.

    Point to both.

    And that concludes my review, out of immense respect for both cars, my descision for my vote is... Uh... Ummm...
    Ah I can't decide, it was a tie so screw it,
    I PUT IN A VOTE FOR BOTH!

    These cars weren't ment to battle, they were meant to cruise along side each other in front of a sunset, to some early 00's tunes. (In my strange opinion... Maybe I played too much GT PSP?)

    And that concludes my review,

    And of course the verdict is...

    BUY A OUILLUM MOTORS SPIRRA
    (How's that for obscure early 00's supercar?)
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2015
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  5. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Concerning next week, I'm feeling a MUSCLE twitch (ha, get it?)

    Perhaps the:
    Ford Mustang Boss 302
    image.jpeg

    Versus the
    Chevrolet Camaro SS?
    image.jpeg

    That would be an awesome matchup
     
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  6. Ryk

    Ryk

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    This fight is full of win. Pop up headlamps vs open top muscle car?

    This is going to be Apollo Creed vs Rocky Balboa
     
  7. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Yes, but I would also add the Callaway C12 to the matchup and make it a 3 way duel. I think its pretty close in terms in PP?
     
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  8. Lubeify100

    Lubeify100

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    Throw in the SRT Challenger and you have the perfect 3 way American battle
     
  9. Ryk

    Ryk

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    The Honda NSX Type-R '92 vs TVR Griffith 500 '94

    These are both triple X rated cars that are aimed for drivers.

    The NSX was the worlds first all aluminium semimonocoque chassis, with an amazing low weight of 1350 which the Type R dropped to 1230 with the removal of various bits of "comfort equipment"

    The TVR was hand built from 47 yards of mild steel tubing, carefully bent and cut to the correct shape and size before being welded together to form a spiders web of a chassis which used to be the old TVR Tuscan Race (Not to be confused with the Speed 6 Tuscan). Hand craftsmanship which is hidden underneath one of the most sublime bodies ever to roll out onto the asphalt.

    (*** You have to imagine a boxing ring announcer for this next bit, otherwise you may think Ryk is a crazy guy.***)

    Now it's TIME!
    Racing, in the Shallot Green Metallic Grid Slot. Hailing from the Takanezawa R&D Plant in Tochigi Prefecture in the land of the rising sun; Japan. This Mid engined fighter packs a transversly mounted naturally aspirated double overhead cam 24 valve 3 litre V6 and Tips the scales at 2712lb.
    It is the Honda NSX Type Rrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

    AND>>>
    Lining up in the Crimson Starmist Grid Slot, An open top roadster from the Rain Soaked Bristol Road Factory, Bispham just up the coast from Blackpool in Engerlandshire. This front engined fighter packs in a 16 valve, 5 litre naturally aspirated V8 engine. It tips the scales at 2332lbs.
    It is the TEEEE-VEEEE-ARRRR Griffith Fiiiiiiiiive Hundreeeeeed!!!



    Well this seems a Mismatch, how can a handbuilt soft top roadster with an engine that was designed way back in the 1950s and a chassis made from steel tubes compete with a state of the art, Factory produced, mid engined supercar with an extruded aluminum semimonocoque chassis from Honda who have dominated Formula 1 over the last 5 years?

    Looks can be deceptive, That TVR may well have all the looks of a bygone era but don't count it out, We've had fairy Tales in the ring before but this time we are getting "Beauty and the Beast" And the TVR Griffith is both of them! That 5 Litre V8 has been worked on so hard by TVR it is tough to believe it used to be a simple 3.5 litre Aluminium V8 called "The Fireball" for Buick. And look at the weight that Honda is carrying. A whopping 380lbs more than the open top Griffith.

    But that extra weight is just where you want it over the rear axel, pressing the Honda's rear tyres hard into the road. That TVR must be thankful the lads back in Bispham can manage to bolt on so much weight saving lightness into the car. Imagine if the NSX was made from traditional steel, the Japanese engineers said a Steel version of the NSX would tip the scales at 1600kg. I bet they are thankful for Aluminium. But that Honda looks fast and sleek. It has the styling of a Ferrari and let's not forget, Pop Up headlamps.

    Let's have a quick real world pre fight... how do these cars compare to the 1994 Ferrari 348? (Which the NSX was designed to at least match in terms of performance)

    Car .......... ...0-60 mph - 0-100mph - (60mph-100mph)
    Ferrari 348tb - 5.4s ----- 12.0s ----- 6.6s
    NSX Type-R - 4.9s ----- 11.9s ----- 7.0s
    Griffith 500 - 4.1s ----- 10.5s ----- 6.4s

    So in the real world both of tonight's fighters kicked sand into the face of the 3.4 litre V8 Ferrari of the period


    Round 1 - Price.
    This is a bit easy, the Top of the Range Griffith will set you back 58,730 Kazulas, the Top of the Range NSX will set you back, 97,070 Kazulas.
    This may look bad for the Honda but at the time the Honda was a "Bargain" top end sports car. But the TVR is an absolute steal with that price tag.

    A Great start from the British car, but can a car so cheap be able to stay ahead of it's more expensive opponnent for long?
    TVR 10 - Honda 8

    Round 2 - Looks
    The NSX is good, long, lean and sleek - pop up headlamps. The Rear end lets it down, from what is otherwise a car that looks like the offspring of a Lotus Espirit and an F16 Fighting Falcon. The black cabin pillars give the canopy a uniform dark look. What could beat such a sweet design...

    The TVR is delicious, previous to this model TVR's were sharp lined wedges. This was smoother than anything on the road. If the NSX tries to copy the best bits of what was out there, the Griffith did its own thing It was a Homage to the old TVR Grantura and what Jack Griffith did to them when he imported them into America.
    A win for the TVR the NSX is a close second though.
    TVR 10(20) - Honda - 9(17)

    Round 3 - Paint Chips
    The NSX has 9 the TVR has 10, The TVR has a slightly better choice too, the Honda has a great, British Racing Onion "Shallot Green Pearl" the classic Formula Red and a colourful Indy Yellow Pearl, but otherwise it is Black, two grades of sIlver and three shades of white. The TVR has a solid British Racing Green in Cooper Green Metallic, but it also has Crimson Starmist - one of the rare Dark shades that forces any secondary stripes and logos to be black rather than white. It also has Flip Flop Yellow, one of the first polarised paints.

    Another win for the TVR, but pretty close. (Both cars are really winners have a Dark Green on the menu right away!)
    TVR 10(30) - Honda 9(26)

    Round 4 - Fear my Powah. In Top Gear.
    This is going to be a chunk of things about the power units. The NSX's C30A engine actually rocks up with 284bhp not the 276bhp as advertised. Could it be the blueprinted and balanced crankshaft assembly making the 8 horsepower difference?

    Honda NSX Type -R
    1st - takes you up to 40mph
    2nd - and you're up to 67mph
    3rd - is good for 95mph
    4th - goes to 130mph
    5th - takes you to 180 at 8000rpm into the red zone. Rev limiter of 8600rpm keeps you at 186mph.

    The Griffith has 340bhp from the bored out and breathed on V8 engine by Buick, from the late 1950s... This became the Rover V8 that powered everything in England for donkeys years, Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Rover SD1 Motorway Police cars, As well as Triumphs, MGs, Morgan and even a Marcos.

    This was the last hurrah for the engine in a TVR as Rover was sold to BMW, and the then owner of TVR said that he would never sell a TVR with a German Engine... So you could blame BMW for killing off the Griffith. (Oddly Rover was very nearly bought by Honda prior to it being sold to BMW.)

    TVR Griffith 500
    1st - blasts you to 45mph
    2nd - gets you to 80mph
    3rd - gets you to 118mph
    4th - gets you to 160mph at 7500rpm
    5th - gets up to 205 at 7000rpm.

    With a cheeky slipstream I was able to clear 220mph and not trouble the rev limiter but the real unaided top speed is comfortably over 200mph.
    TVR 10(40) - Honda 9(35)

    Round 5 - Madrid Circuit shakedown.
    Last couple of days of the seasonal for sub 500pp cars. Do we think that these two children of the 90's will be able to cut the mustard bone stock and get gold?

    Bone stock -TVR's are known for not having anything lower the difficulty level. The NSX isn't quite as spartan, but you can say goodbye to a stereo or engine bay sound proofing and Traction Control, but the GTPlanet driver will be safe knowing that ABS is still fitted to hold your hand when it gets too tough for you. But the NSX Type-R is far away from being a hairdressers car. The Suspension has been stiffened mostly at the nose to reduce the oversteer found in the base model and to give the car much more stability in the high speed corners. How will their fair on the hot streets of Madrid.
    Griffith 500 --- 1m35.6
    NSX Type-R --- 1m36.4

    Both made getting Gold very easy indeed.
    Why was the TVR faster? Probably down to the TVR's brutal acceleration out of the corners to dominate the NSX Type R on what isn't a power circuit.
    TVR 10(50) - Honda 9(44)

    Round 6 - Handling
    The contrast is the NSX is mid Engined and rotates like a Fighter Jet, it gives you some Oversteer to play with but the Long & Narrow wheelbase and track means the car is very stable for a Mid Engined car. (Contrast with a wider shorter Lancia Stratos)

    The TVR is a bareknuckle fighter that compares very well to other Front Engined cars but against one of the best Mid Engined cars the handling will always be harder to deal with. I have to give this one to the NSX. (To be brutally honest I think any mid engined car beats the TVR in pure handling terms just down to the physics of it. )
    TVR 9 (59) - Honda 10(54)

    Round 7 - Beep Beep
    The TVR has a proper horn. The Honda has a flimsy weak horn.
    TVR 10- (69) Honda 9 (63)

    Round 8 - Engine Grunt : Eardrum Assault
    The TVR's V8 deep rumble trumps the slightly less than musical V6 in the Honda.
    TVR 10 (79) - Honda 9(72)

    Rounds 9/10/11 Willow Springs 20 miler (SS tyres - No aids at all. Still Stock (Save the tyres.)
    - Tyre Wear Rate
    - Fuel Economy
    - Raw pace

    1m24.1 - 12m12.8 NSX Type-R
    Fuel was fine - I did a mandatory mid race stop and I still had more than half a tank of fuel left.
    Tyres. The left rear wore pretty thin and the balance of the car suffered in the full throttle right handers on the final lap of each stint.

    1m22.4 - 12m00.7 TVR Griffith
    Fuel was also fine but it did seem to drink more than the 3 litre NSX but only a fraction at most. Tyres, Front Left was the weak spot which just created more understeer in those fast lefts, but you can drive around it with more 'slow in-fast out'. It did feel like I was losing alot of time as the car wasn't quite happy to take some corners flat out.
    Tyre Wear - TVR 10 - Honda 9
    Fuel Economy TVR 9 - Honda 10
    Raw Pace - TVR 10 - Honda 9


    So leading into the 12th round TVR has 108 and the Honda has 100.

    That must be drastic news for the Men in the Shallot Green Metallic Corner. Their Fighter needs a knock out blow with only 3 more rounds to go and being, literally, miles behind on points.


    Round 12- Practicality.
    The TVR has a monster boot it is much shorter so parking is easy and it has an engine note that will make traffic wardens wet their knickers and scamper away in fear! Only two seats so keeps children and the Mother in Law out of the car (Win for Both!)
    TVR 10 (118) - Honda 10 (110)

    Round 13 - Rarity.
    TVR Griffith's with a 5 litre engine... about 1730
    Honda managed to churn out 483 NSX Type-R's.
    You can't fudge those numbers! The Type-R is over three times as rare as the much more common TVR Griffith 500
    TVR 8 (126) - Honda 10 (120)

    Round 14 - Popularity
    TVR Griffith's with a 5 litre engine... about 1730
    Honda managed to churn out 483 NSX Type-R's.
    Wow you can't argue with those numbers! The Big five litre TVR was bought by at almost four times as many people. A much more popular car...
    TVR 10 (136) - Honda 8 (128)

    Round 15 - Production Run
    The Type R was made for less than 3 years at Takanezawa, The Griffith 500 managed to be produced for 8 years until the supply of V8 engines ran out.
    TVR 10 (146) Honda 9 (137)

    ----------------

    The Referee has to call this one. Neither car has a really solid Knockout advantage over the other. But the majority of the rounds when to the plucky little roadster that Every MX-5 wants to be when it finally grows up. (The Honda was warned not to to use any Low Blows with its Pop up low beam head lamps and the TVR was told it could not fight topless, despite what all the crowd chanted. ) That is it the fight is over. The Fighters stumble back to their corners, but you can tell by the raucous cheers and furious burning doughnoughts that the TVR Griffith has won. The NSX Type R can keep its head held as high as it didn't lose to the might of Ferrari or Porsche... it lost to a little company in the North of England.

    For me I almost expected the Honda to be faster - It is a more expensive Supercar that had Ayrton Senna amongst the people that made it such a legend. How can a car made from welded mild steel tubes and an unwanted American engine ... and a convertable as well, compete let alone beat a purpose built coupe from the dominant name in Formula 1? I did a few jokey rounds, but being much cheaper, much faster, and better looking there was only going to be one winner... Because everyone buys a car with good fuel economy...

    The TVR Griffith 500
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2015
  10. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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  11. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Let me just start out by saying I am fond of both cars. The '02 NSX Type R is one of my favorite cars in the game, and I have fond memories of GT1 with the Griffith. That said, this '92 NSX feels like the better car of the two.

    Mountain Trial:
    NSX - 1:48.022
    Griffith - 1:49.070

    City Trial:
    NSX - 1:34.596
    Griffith - 1:36.932

    As I said, I'm fond of these two cars. The NSX did have its usual MR quirks but the car as a whole is easier to control than the Griffith. I remember the Griffith being more of an oversteery car, but during these trials, it was actually pretty understeery. This in addition to the times make the verdict easy for me.

    The 1992 Honda NSX Type R wins for me, but don't be afraid to give the Griffith a try as well. With a few tweaks, the Griffith can be a very competitive car.
     
  12. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    I'll start with the NSX. The NSX is probably one of the best cars if all time, and the Type R model did not disappoint. Unfortunately, the '92 model in GT6 looks quite pixelated and untouched by PD. When I drove it I felt as if I was in a race car because it was so playful on the corners. It was pretty easy to drive despite it being MR, it had the speed and the cornering when you needed it.

    The Griffith on the other hand seemed more restrictive in terms of handling. When I say that I'm saying it had more understeer than its competitor but overall it's a great car to drive and when tuned, can give online players a run for their money. TVR did not let down with the looks of the Griffith, and even the name sounds great. Picking the winner for me was difficult, but in the end...

    I choose Blackpool...erm... I mean Griffith.

    Lap times. I tested both on Ascari, no aids other than ABS.

    NSX Type R: 2:21.778
    Griffith 500: 2:22.980

    And judging by your votes:

    NSX: 3
    Griffith 500: 3

    It's a tie! You know what that means.

    Sudden Death

    Each car was tested one lap on Midfield. Best of one lap is the winner.

    NSX: 1:21.142
    Griffith: 1:20.998

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]

    The 1994 Griffith 500!!!

    First time that I had to do a tiebreaker and it proved to be pretty good. Stop back here tomorrow for the next duel of the week.
     
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  13. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Oops I forgot to vote, I voted for the NSX
     
  14. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Alright, so this week I figured I would choose two unlikely rivals, so this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 1984 Ford RS200

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2007 Mazda RX-8 Type S!!!

    Ford against Mazda, old vs new, 4WD vs FR. Should be a good one, so try these out and let me know what you voted for and with that, let the battle begin.
     
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2015
  15. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Wow - I've not a single clue which I may think will win here.
    I'm not an instant fan of eithers looks... so time for me to appreciate these two classics. Frog faced RS200 or the saloon doored RX8.

    Only one way to find out... fight!
     
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  16. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Review coming in a bit, I have a lot of photoshop to do!
    Don't worry, it wont be anything incredible :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
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  17. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Easily the RX-8 is the best. That Ford is good, but its not great
     
  18. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Versus Series.jpg
    1984 FORD RS200 vs 2007 MAZDA RX-8 REVIEW/COMPARISON

    "When a fire-spitting rally car and a fake coupe double cream collide, there can only be one survivor."

    image.jpeg

    I'm back to bring you the first of my formatted reviews, hopefully you like this style.

    Round One: Shakedown

    Shakedown Final.jpg

    In the shakedown lap, you can see the track I use in the right hand side of the banner, that is my hillclimb track.
    I took both cars out to the track, no tire, oil or performance changes. Just fresh from the dealership!
    Ford took the lead by a lot, five seconds to be precise, the RS200's grip is just immence and is very fast accelerating aswell. But don't count out the RX-8 either, that car is smoooth. Like Jeremy Clarkson said, it runs on double cream. The engine feels great even in the game. PD got the engine feel and shifting spot-on in the car. The shift from 3rd to 4th is the smoothest transition in the universe. The handling is also amazing aswell. Very tight through the corners and gliding all the way!

    Ford RS200: 2:29
    Mazda RX-8: 2:34

    POINT GOES TO THE FORD (1/0)

    Round Two: Drag Race
    Drag Race Final.jpg

    In the Drag Race I take both cars down a four kilometer strip to allow both cars enough time to max out.
    The ford got off to a strong start, flying ahead of the RX-8. However the RX-8 came back once the cars maxed to take a decisive 0.013 of a second lead over the Ford RS200, technically the RX-8 won, so...

    POINT GOES TO THE MAZDA (1/1)

    Round Three: Paint Chips
    Paint Chips Final.jpg

    For paint chips it seems like a pretty one sided battle. the Ford has three: Red, White and Black while the RX-8 has Seven: Blue, Silver, Black, Red and White. Could ford have spared a few extra dollars to the Paint Chip R&D Department?

    POINT GOES TO THE MAZDA (1/2)


    Round Four: Customization
    Customization Final.jpg


    Since the RS200 is a standard car, I was not surprised that it has no unique options, The RX-8 has 4
    unique options like a wing, extensions, a flat floor, and a unique options part that extends the front bumper. It looks almost like a BMW Z8's lower bumper.

    POINT GOES TO THE MAZDA (1/3)

    Round Five: Tuning
    Tuning Final.jpg


    Again, the Ford is at another disadvantage to the Mazda in terms of weight reduction, not being able to equip a carbon hood due to its standard status. The Ford is a lot lighter though and can be converted to rear wheel drive if so desired.

    POINTS GO TO BOTH CARS (2/4)

    Round Six: Style and Design
    Design and Styling Final.jpg

    Both cars are not serious lookers from the get-go, The Ford has classic rally bugeyes that people go crazy for (me being one of them). I also love the aero bits and whatnot giving it the rally car for the road thing. It was doing it before Subaru was cool. On the other hand, the RX-8 works very nice together, the facia has very nice, flowing lines. I love how some parts are designed like wankle rotors. But overall I like the Ford's classic group B design over the modern Mazda.

    POINT GOES TO THE FORD (3/4)

    Round Seven: Sound
    Sound Final.jpg

    Sound is by no means GT6's strong suit, but there are some that are better than the others. It's time to find the best of the worst in this segment. While the RS200 has a generic rally racing exhaust which I find completely inaccurate for the road model, the RX-8 has better sound. The RX-8 has a nice rotary sound unique to it, so it wins this round.

    POINT TO THE MAZDA (3/5)

    Final Round: Drifting and Popularity
    Drifting Final.jpg

    Of course, for all of you who would rather go sideways than fast, this segment is the place to be. Also, you people who like to fit in with the crowd or be completely obscure might like this too. The Mazda is by far the most popular for drifting and you can always find one in a JDM freak lobby. The RS200 also has a legion of dedicated group B enthusiasts behind it. I also saw a lot of RS200's in that 450pp Midfield quick match, so the RS200 wins for popularity in low-PP racing.

    POINTS GO TO BOTH CARS (4/6)

    Now it's time for my...
    Final Thoughts Final.jpg

    The Mazda is a very fun car to drive, drift and tune. I enjoy the smoothness of it and it translates very well from real life into the game. The RS200 does however leave with some cookies, because it is fun to build rally tunes with and is faster in initial acceleration, so the Mazda is only really practical on a track with four kilometer straights.
    The Mazda pulled a (4/6) win over the Ford...

    SO THE MAZDA WINS THIS MATCH, AND THE VOTE.

    So who will be the two gladiators next week? Perhaps we will have the TVR Tuscan Speed 12 come and secure the manufacturer a triple-whamey, or I may have to test K-cars next week, we will never know...

    And of course to my final verdict

    BUY AN IMPREZA WRX

    "Mrwaflz55 bringing you consumer advice on the hour..."
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2015
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  19. Ryk

    Ryk

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    GT6 Duel of the Week #19: Ford RS200 '84 vs Mazda RX8 Type S '07
    (Without looking at others reviews... So I may have rushed this a just a little bit.)


    Ford RS200' 1984 Andalusiarsrs200.jpg
    160,000 credits - 246bhp - 29.7 torques 1180kg - 4WD - Sports Hard Tyres
    1804cc Turbocharged - 432PP

    Two Unnamed paint chips - White or Red....

    Looks - Now This is tricky as it is a car built for Racing on rough tough rally stages... easy access for the mechanics and best performance were the first consideration.. if the car has a rear wing that obliterates the rear view out of the mirror... then pah. I think they had to make 200 of these production cars to let the car itself be classed as a Group B rally car... Any less produced and it wasn't really a production model... of course letting a rule book near a race engineer is a dangerous thing... Tony Southgate being the culprit here (He designed the trusty V12 BRM P160 that Peter Gethin won the Italian Grand Prix with in 1971 - the fastest Formula One race for 32 years. And the closest finish, ever.) The rule was meant to prevent "rally special" cars being entered that had no place on the road...
    In the past it used to be road cars ... that went to rally this was a more blatant Rally car that was "toned down" to be a road car.

    Mazda RX8 Type S 2007 Andalusia_1rx8.jpg
    28,980cr - 246bhp - 22.0 torques 1310kg - FR - Comfort Soft Tyres
    654ccTwin Rotor Naturally Aspirated - 429PP

    7 Paint chips - A white and a red and also 5 others (But no Nordic Green Mica... piffle!)

    Looks - oddly the new Aston Martin DB10 (Spectre - James Bond Film) reminds me of the old RX8 Concept with the wide set "Clint Eastwood Squint" headlamps... Obviously the Aston's monster V12 needs more radiator grill space than a frugal rotary engine... But for me the resemblance is there... (James Bond Aston Copies Mazda Shock!)

    With such diverse aspects it is hard to compare them. They should trade blows. One being very strong in areas that the other car is pretty weak. But As we use GT6 - the biggest factor should be, how many paint chips it has... I mean how fast you can chuck the car about. The Mazda has a lot of pre test advantages.

    Price --- 28,990 vs 160,000
    Chips --------- 7 vs 2
    Seats --------- 4 vs 2
    Doors --------- 4 vs 2
    Exhaust Pipes- 2 vs 1

    but...The RS200 can hit back with:-
    Real winning race car Pedigree.
    Pretty dang rare.



    Test - Circuito de Santa Monica.

    3.31mile track which has a mix of corners, but puts a premium on high speed stability. The Ford was quite good for a 4WD car. The drive itself was quite good... why? Because unlike so Many 4WD cars the engine in bang in the middle... I really need to remind myself Mid Engined - 4 wheel drive so that I don't place this car in with the likes of GT-R's and Lancers and Imprezas with the Understeer-o-tronic (tm) layout. So like a Peugeot 205 T16, the engine placement makes the car rotate perfectly, like it wants to be driven.

    The Downside was the car was a bit touchy on stock tyres. You definitely need to build up your skills in the car as the grip level at high speed is ... playful. Enjoyably dangerous. (Unleash your Inner Kimi!)

    Engine - felt a bit lacking and at high revs the engine note is dodgy if you are near top speed.
    The car was fun and playful in the demanding sweepers - but if you overstep the mark it will try to bite you.
    The RS 200 comes fitted with Sport Hard Semi Slicks

    The RX8 Type S
    Fitted with Comfort Soft tyres...
    The RX8 was much more composed. This high speed stability let me take most of the high speed stuff at high speed, I only toyed with 5th gear, not sure what 6th would be like as the engine felt like it ran out of puff.

    The RS200 had a so-so engine both cars feel like they have been short changed in terms of out and out grunt. But these are road cars, not racers.

    Handling.
    The RX8 felt tight and grippy, but if you wanted to get a bit of tail out it was easy enough. The RS200 was much more eager but at higher speed you really need to be in your own sweet spot of driving talent... if you, as a driver, fall short then the car will end up in the scenery.

    Looks - Comparison
    RS200 - The flat front/ bug eyed looks is very simple and distinctive... Proportions, the rear wheels look a bit pulled back from where your eyes would like to see them, Obviously this is for optimal Rally and to squeeze the engine in. From the front the car actually reminds me of Turbo Kid's "Skeletron" - empty soulless eyes. I am sure if the car had done more Rallies then it would have imprinted more into the consciousness, but the car wasn't retired, many of them were used in Rallycross events. (Britain's own Will Gollop in his Mini Metro 6R4 verses the Ford RS200 of Iconic Norwegian, Martin Schanche.)
    To me the Ford RS200 was a car that should win. It had a big car company behind it driven most famously by a multiple champion. That almost made it the "Bad guy" car.

    RX8 - You have to compare it to the RX7 - and that is troublesome. The 4th generation RX7 is a sports car and the RX8 is a 4 seater sports car. It has some nice lines, but the bloated cabin to fit in 4 pesky humans makes the car less than ideal but for a 4 seater it looks very good indeed. In that sort of fuzzy middle ground between a 2 seater sports car and a 4 seater Sports car, the RX8 seems much better looking that other boxy bulky cars.


    RS200 '84
    1m58.648 - 10m00.488 (5 laps) At the Original Circuito de Santa Monica



    Car felt nice, you could hear the turbo spooling. The Replay is nice, but looking at it, I get a taste of Mazda Autozam about the car with those round headlamps. Every lap I was on the edge of tomorrow, Would my talent run out at the next corner? Would I push too hard? It is a car that rewards the skilful.

    ---
    Same race but I fitted the Mazda with Sports Hards

    RX8 Type-S 2007
    1m58.830 - 10m02.083 (5 laps) At the Original Circuito de Santa Monica


    Car also felt great. After sixteen and a half miles, to have under 2 seconds splitting the cars is a great advert for how closely matched they are.

    The Mazda is far easier to drive. (Some may say "Dull." but I couldn't possibly comment.) The Back end will step out but you have to be "Full Kimi" to do that and even then the car is so helpful. The Ford is much more eager to get sideways and when it does - you really have to drive with silky smooth car control Giving it an armful of opposite lock will definitely:maybe send the car the opposite direction before you can say "No claims bonus."


    Hmmm. Which to choose even on a Toozdi is choose day because it is Tuesday?
    Can 80's Motorsport Glory compare with turn of the Millennium sporting practicality?

    I think I have to choose the Hotrod form Hiroshima. The RS200 is a bold car but I'd not get the most out of it. Really some loose surface expert should be driving one of these not a hack like me!

    So the RX8 Type S (Resprayed in Camilia Red) would be my choice.


    Santa Monica can be found here, I think.
    https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/resources/circuito-de-santa-mónica.3018/
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2015
  20. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    done the review, go check it out
    :D
     
    Rotorist and Ryk like this.
  21. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Great comparison! Let me tell you my opinion on this now.

    - RS200 is of my favourite limited production road version models of rally cars along with 205T16 as their Midegine-4WD setup helps much the handling of them. So, to have such a great road car in early 80s was unique.

    - RX8 is one of them most unique sports cars ever for 2 reasons. First of all, rotary engine, unique in the world of cars since 70s that all except Mazda abandoned it. This specific engine took the title of the global engine of the year in 2004, and broke the world record in going full throttle for 24H (2 RX8s in same time doing it in an oval circuit without breaking down at all). Secondly, it had 4 suicide doors in a coupe-ish body which was also unique combination by then. Its 50-50 weight distribution too helped muchly in its handling which was setup in Nordsheiffle. No understeer at all!

    So, I choose RX8 mainly because it's much more practical, cheap in buying and maintaining, easier to control on or over the limit. But RS200 is a legend and a collector's item by now.

    in conclusion, my real life points out of 10 to those 2 would be 8.5/10 to RX8 (fuel consumption deducts almost 1 point) and 7.5/10 to RS200 (non-existant practicality, hard to be maintained, lack of safety measures) but in its time RS200 would easily get better grades.

    As for GT6's representation, RX8 gets 9/10 and RS200 gets 8/10 combined score for their handling, looks, tunability and cost to buy those.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2015
  22. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    A very unusual pair up but still made for a good comparison. One is a homologation of a legendary Group B rally car and the other is the successor to a popular sports car from the 80's and 90's. 4WD vs. FR. Normally, the 4WD car comes out on top, but does it do so this go around? I needed a tie-breaker for this one, once again on the Mt. Akagi track by @RCKakashi14. (Since it's one of the only tracks I have that resembles a tarmac rally stage)

    Mountain Trial:
    RS200 - 1:51.656
    RX-8 - 1:53.786

    City Trial:
    RS200 - 1:37.827
    RX-8 - 1:37.600

    Mt Akagi Trial:
    RS200 - 4:37.143
    RX-8 - 4:39.520

    So I have a positive opinion on both cars. The RS200 has all the stability of a 4WD car without being super understeery and the light back end of the RX-8 kicks out just enough to be fun in the corners. The RX-8 is more of a fun car than the RS200 but they're both particularly enjoyable to drive.

    In the end though, the RS200 proves to be the better car which is why I give it my vote. The RX-8 is definitely a car I can also recommend, however.
     
  23. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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  24. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Ford RS200 '84
    1.8L
    246 hp / 6,900 rpm
    215 ft-lb / 4,500 rpm
    1,180 kg (2,601 lbs)
    432 pp

    Mazda RX-8 Type S '07
    1.3L
    248 hp / 8,500 rpm
    162 ft-lb / 6,000 rpm
    1,310 kg (2,888 lbs)
    429 pp

    They have almost identical horsepower, but the turbocharged Ford makes 53 more ft-lbs of torque than the naturally-aspirated Mazda. The difference in weight is 130 kg or 287 lbs in the Ford's favor.

    How do they get on then, at Mid-Field Raceway, with both cars subjected to Comfort Soft tires?




    Ford is the clear winner, with the increased torque and decreased weight, but not by much! Only 0.667 seconds separates these two cars.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2015
  25. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The RS200. The road version of the hardly forgotten rally legend. Mid-engined, 4WD. Quite a cool little car to drive, provided you spend the $160,000 to get it. It seems that this car likes to slide, but once again like most cars if you can deal with it, it becomes a very fun car to have. Now I gotta try it off road.....

    The RX8. The succesor to the legendary RX7, and it still has a rotary engine that punishes 246 HP. Driving it felt pretty stable, which is what I expected. It is of course way cheaper than the RS200 and it is a premium car, AND it has available aero options. Picking between these two was tough but in the end...

    I choose Rotary, ahem, RX8.

    Lap times? Both were tested on Midfield, stock tires, no aids.

    RS200: 1:24.247
    RX-8: 1:24.193

    And your votes:

    RS200: 2
    RX-8: 4

    And the winner is.....

    [​IMG]
    The '07 RX-8 Type S!!!

    Next week will be the 20th duel, so be sure to stop back here tomorrow for the next duel of the week.​
     
  26. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    After a day of waiting, this week's duel is.....

    [​IMG]
    The 2010 Aston Martin V12 Vantage

    vs

    [​IMG]
    The 2011 Jaguar XKR-S!!!

    (Thanks to @MidFieldMaven for the suggestion)

    Why better way to celebrate 20 weeks than to use two British cars. Take these for a drive and cast your vote, and don't be afraid to suggest cars for future duels!​
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  27. RCKakashi14

    RCKakashi14

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    The V12 Vantage gets my vote. More agile, and better sound.
     
  28. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Too bad, my motem broke so I won't have wifi until Wednesday, I'll post my review then...
    Looks fun, tough choice
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2015
  29. XtremeEdward

    XtremeEdward (Banned)

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    Both win because they are British
     
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  30. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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