GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. LM7325

    LM7325

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    I love them both. It is like comparing a F4U Corsair to a BF109. Both are deadly in the right hands. I give Viper the slight edge because of more potential.
     
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  2. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Well here are their specs after purchase:

    RUF RGT '00
    3.6L
    378 hp / 7,500 rpm
    277 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,330 kg (2,932 lbs)
    499 pp

    SRT Viper GTS '02
    8.0L
    448 hp / 5,000 rpm
    490 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
    1,569 kg (3,459 lbs)
    516 pp

    Viper is a torque monster thanks to its 8.0L V10 engine. RGT is a lightweight dancer in comparison.

    Mid-Field Raceway. Comfort Soft tires. You know what time it is.




    Maximum speed
    152 mph - Viper
    151 mph - RGT

    It seems the Viper GTS '02 and RUF RGT '00 are perfect opponents for each other, with best lap times of 1:18.9 for both cars.

    I'd rather live with the RGT and track the Viper. If I could only have either car as my only car, then RUF.
     
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  3. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Bravo @MidFieldMaven for the laptimes (what a match!) and the OP for giving us that truly nice duel (as usual).

    This time is power & massive torque vs superb handling. Depending on the track one will win but with small margin. Monza and Fuji is Viper's, Laguna Seca and Tsukuba is Ruf's etc. So, what to choose? Ruf is my choice just because it is a great balanced car, even better than the 996 GT3 which was a great base to start with. Viper is a legend also but too primitive in many aspects to win on that Ruf in real world. In GT6, Viper is cheaper and faster in straights, RGT is one of the best in handling. I agree on someone's comment on Viper's long ratio gearbox too. I guess big torque allowed them to lower the consumption.

    To sum up, RUF gets my vote as an almost perfect sports car (RR setup will never be perfect due to weight balance eh?).
     
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  4. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    ...and now for the review proper.

    So here we have two cars that I really like. Love this generation of Viper and I really love the RGT as well. Love the power behind these cars, and they're both very fun to drive too. As I said before, I have a black RGT as a featured car in my favorites list, completely tuned, and I have two Vipers of this generation, one tuned and one completely stock. These are just... gahh... this is a pretty good duel.

    Big Willow Trial:
    Viper - 1:23.816
    RGT - 1:24.007

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Viper - 1:44.645
    RGT - 1:46.828

    SSR5 Trial:
    Viper - 1:32.676
    RGT - 1:32.745

    In all three trials, the Viper did better, but not by much against the RGT. The Rotenboden was the obvious exception, where the RGT's rear-engine, rear drive nature caused it to step out quite a bit on the elevation changes, so it was necessary to slow it down to keep it stable. The Viper was much more balanced, but on the flat tracks, they were fairly neck and neck in terms of potential.

    In the end, the Viper wins out because it was much more consistent, and I believe it's the better car. However, I cannot stress enough that BOTH of these cars are more than worth driving. Either way, you'll have a great time.
     
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  5. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Took them both down to the track for a short review this week. It was on Eifel with a few bumps and hills etc.

    The viper seemed easy enough to control. Enough power in the straights and fairly predictable

    The RUF was fun to drive in the RUF sort of way: lots of slide and makes you really pay attention. Not the best precision machine but is my favourite of the two for feel.

    Times: Viper: 1:56.890
    RGT: 1:56.919

    Pretty close, but I pick the RUF this week due to sheer enjoyment.
     
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  6. MOPARbarrett5

    MOPARbarrett5 Premium

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    I choose the Viper because it laps a little faster, and looks a lot better.
     
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  7. VspecZR1GT2RS89

    VspecZR1GT2RS89

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    Great reviews by the way guys! :tup: I have been following you guys since the thread started, but this is my first post here.

    After seeing several of them, I'll probably start mine on the Viper GTS vs. RGT (996) this weekend. But since I'm kinda busy with life and school :grumpy:, I'll try and do one when I get a chance, if you guys don't mind.

    Keep up the great work!
     
  8. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Please do :cheers:
     
  9. Arp 273

    Arp 273

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    Both cars are a lot of fun to drive, the Viper a little more relaxed, the RUF more active. The Viper eeks out a bit more performance, which it should, based on the higher pp. Difficult choice, very close. Although it was great to slide that RUF around, in the end for me the Viper wins based on looks, stability and performance.
     
  10. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Man, I'm really struggling to get that darn Ruf to match my Viper times. I'm about a second slower and neither I nor my DS3 are having a whole lot of fun. But that Dodge, mmmmmm! :tup:

    @Cowboy that's a real nice time you set with the Ruf
     
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  11. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    I expected it to drive like a BTR, but I was wrong apparently :D
     
  12. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Ruf RGT 2000 vs. Viper GTS 2002

    The Viper has 17 more PP than the RGT (Isn't he the fragile former quarterback for Washington Redskins?)
    So GT6 thinks the Viper has the edge- But the "Rule of Duel" is : Lower the Weight, to makes cars Great.

    I am going to resist running a test race off the bat this time.


    Bit of boring History...

    The Ruf RGT as everyone knows started out life as the Air cooled rear engined Tatra prototype designed by Hans Ludwinka - That design was then 'stolen' by Mr Porsche for the People Car - the VW Beetle - Another Ludwinka design was the Tatra T87 which was popular with the German Officers for the big powerful V8 hanging off the back of the car but it had handling traits that made Adolf Hitler ban the car for his officers and force them to use the much more humble VW Beetle based Kubelwagen.
    After the second world war, the guts of the VW Beetle made the Porsche 356 - which in hatched into first the Porsche 911 --- which had a long life evolving over the decades, until Pinky Lai had a crack at the 996 version of the 911 which not only looked slightly different (It has the same nose as the Boxster) but was powered by...a water cooled engine! And had all flavours of electronic crutches to take away the hard earned nick name of "The Widow maker" that Ludwinka's sleek T87 and many 911's had till the 90's when they bolted on Power Steering and Traction Control and Anti Lock breaks and other advances. The GT3 version of the Porsche 996 was then used as the base for the Ruf RGT.

    The Viper - Almost a throwback. The Tom Gale designed roadster turned into a sleek Coupe - The GTS started life with a proper engine and no driver aids... but by 2002 it no longer had forged pistons and had been bloated up with Anti Lock Breaks and airbags and other blubber - However it did still have that "Future classic" look to it that was sadly lost when the design moved to the Osamu Shikado second generation styling in 2003. A huge V10 designed by Lamborghini. A steel tube chassis and a big long bonnet and the cabin set way back. Like the father of the Suzuki Cappuccino or the Mk2 Mazda MX5...

    So lets see which is best of the best!

    *** Round 1 *** Paint Chips
    Ruf - 12 Chips
    Dodge- 6 options

    Both come out swinging - the Viper has those huge twin stripes 8 inches thick with a 4 inch gap... BUT it only has 3 choices for paint colours.The Ruf has 4 times as many colour options and unlike many cars those 12 cover a lot of range - save the omission of a scarlet. I have to edge this to the Ruf. - Hold on - is that a Dark Green Paint chip.
    (Instant win for the Ruf! - Oh shucks did I do it again?)


    Ruf RGT 10 - Viper GTS 8​

    *** Round 2 *** Looks

    Pinky Lai's New 911 look with a GT3 racing body kit vs the instant classic swoops of the original coupe Viper. -
    The RGT has the nose of a Porsche Boxster and a bolt-on rear spoiler. The GTS is pure. it has a few extra vents over the original RT/10.
    I may be a bit mean here - but I really like the Viper's lines, the RGT just isn't as eye grabbing as the GTS - I also have to factor in that the Viper grew much less "cute" as the years went on, making this version even more easy on the eye.

    Ruf RGT 8(18) - Viper GTS 10(18)​

    ***Round 3 *** Weight
    RGT - 1330kg
    GTS - 1569kg
    239 kilograms- which is over 500 English Imperial Pounds... However one thing to note is the balance of the car - the RGT has it way at the back - which as anyone who has driven a 911 in anger will tell you is great, right until the pendulum swings beyond the limit of the rear tyres - then you have a lot of lateral energy that will want to overtake the front of the car. The Viper despite being heavy and having a huge engine at the front of the car manages to have a rearward weight balance - 48:52 isn't huge but in my sozzled head it puts the car in the "mid engine" area for weight balance - so I am expecting a car with far less understeer than I would expect for a front engined car. But the Ruf is much lighter.

    Ruf RGT 10(28) - Viper GTS 8(26)​

    *** Round 4 *** Price
    RGT - 143,250
    GTS - 90,400

    Wow that Chrysler is a bargain but you don't buy a Chrysler because it is Expensive... But the Ruf obviously understand the Porsche Marketing Logic that taking stuff out of a car makes it more expensive.

    Ruf RGT 8(36) - Viper GTS 10 (36)​

    *** Round 5 *** Fear my Powah!
    RGT - 379bhp
    GTS - 449bhp

    70 horses doesn't sound like much extra power - but it is the equivalent to having an extra Nissan Skyline(*) under that long bonnet.
    (*)That would be the 1963 Skyline 1500 deluxe model of course, not a GT-R! What made you think that!

    Ruf RGT 8(44) - Viper GTS 10 (46)​

    *** Round 6 *** Terminal Velocity

    Ruf used to have the old High Speed world record for Production cars with the CTR, when it superseded the Porsche 959 (I read some place, probably wrong!) - The Viper GTS gained a lot of top speed with the double bubble roofline over the original RT/10 roadster, but can it out pace a car trained by a company that set the world land speed record for a proper production car. This test will also highlight issues for the next round...

    Let's go to Route X
    RGT - 202mph (Rev limited 8000rpm 6th gear)
    GTS - 208mph (Drag limited 4300rpm in 6th gear)

    The RGT was pretty tight for the gearbox which let it get up to 200mph pretty swiftly the Viper has as I expected a very tall final few cogs, 6th is for fuel economy runs and you can amble along in top gear doing motorway speeds and have quite a bit of torque on hand when that 8 litre V10 is pulling 1400 revs! I guess a more pinched in set of ratios would let the car get up to speed quicker and also have more top end speed - but this is a road car. If you can hook up a slipstream the car will get to higher speeds but once back in clean air the car will slide back down to its 208mph un aided maximum.

    Ruf RGT 9(53) Viper GTS 10(56)​

    **** Round 7 *** Gears for Fears
    I've not looked at the ratios but I imagine the Viper will have a top gear so tall it could dunk in the NBA with both feet on the ground. The RGT? I can see this car having a much more "Racing" set of cogs, in fact the gearbox could well be so setup to get the most out of the car on a circuit, that it limits the top end. (For once quite accurate before the test... Hmm what are this weeks lottery numbers...)

    RGT
    --1st----2nd---3rd-----4th------5th------6th
    0-----40-----72----100-----132 ---- 165 ---- 202
    RGT - Felt nice and tight - and although the car did reach a terminal velocity that was limited by the gearbox 200+ isn't a number to cry at (I've yet to test the Viper)

    GTS
    --1st----2nd---3rd-----4th------5th------6th
    0-----55-----80----110-----145 ---- 197 ---- 208
    GTS - The gears feel long and the low revving engine note does little to make you feel like you are pushing hard. The final two gears feel overly long but if you are running in a pack having that extra head room will save your engine. But I have to edge the gearbox to the Ruf.

    Ruf RGT 10 (63) Viper GTS 9 (65)​

    *** Round 8 *** Engine Note

    Water cooled Flat 6 vs an odd firing V10 - but the Viper doesn't have a cutesy 5.2 litre, this Viper has a big 8 litre.

    RGT - Quite a rich musical sound but it does come with Semi racing exhaust so that water-cooled flat 6 doesn't have much to baffle the sound. Top Revs of 8000 is pretty reasonable too.
    GTS - Low smooth v10 drones along Not the worst V10 but the low rev range, topping out at 6000, takes a bit of the performance away from the noise.

    Ruf RGT 10 (73) Viper GTS 9 (74)​

    *** Round 9 *** Round the Horn

    RGT - Sounds muted - almost submerged.
    GTS - Perky horn


    Ruf RGT 8 (81) Viper GTS 10 (84)​

    *** Round 10 *** B Spec

    Let's run that 20 mile event but with all the electronic driving aids on. Nice, lets take a seat up in the Budweiser Balcony and see how well the cars do...

    GTS - 1m39.004(14m34.051)
    At the half way point the Viper had perfect front tyres (10F10) and the rears were more or less in great condition (8R9) - but the fuel was past the half way point, so It looks like it will have to perform a pit stop.

    RGT - 1m38.388(14m06.619)
    At the mid point the tyres were in excellent shape at 10F10-9R10 And slightly more than half a tank of motion lotion left... But I forced it to perform the same pit stop and add the same length of stop. Even being a sportsman, the Ruf ran away in B Spec mode.
    Emphatic win for the Ruf.

    Ruf RGT 10 (91) Viper GTS 8(92)​


    *** Round 11 *** A Spec - Tyre wear

    Lets run that 20 mile event but with all the electronic driving aids Off. Proper Job! None of this Girly Man ABS (Yes I know the 2002 GTS has ABS fitted but where is the fun in that!) Let's leave the B Spec Gimp locked up in the Budweiser Balcony (What do you mean it isn't called that anymore!) Time for some driving!

    RGT - 6F8 - 2R6
    GTS - 4F6 - 2R5

    Tyre wear was pretty even - The Viper is more hungry but the Ruf lunches the left rear tyre - And that is a really bad habit for it to exhibit. I guess I have to share the round, The Viper was 5 points more harsh on its tyres, but the way the RGT tore up that left rear, leaves the driver with a potentially dangerously unbalanced car.



    Ruf RGT 10 (101) Viper GTS 10(102)​

    *** Round 12 *** A Spec - Racing Fuel Economy

    Firstly this is for racing speeds, not pootling along some Interstate in 6th gear at 2000rpm with the windows taped shut and the air conditioning off. This was a basic test of how thirsty the engines are.


    RGT - Ran to the line close to vapours, but it didn't run out.
    GTS - wanted 19 Litres more fuel


    Ruf RGT 10 (111) Viper GTS 8(110)​

    *** Round 13 *** A Spec - Handling and Balance

    GTS - The GTS was very well behaved. At the end of a stint the left rear was wearing thin, and if you push hard and early then you will be left trying to juggle a car that wants to swap ends, but it wants to do it slowly, giving the driver a lot of time to dip into his (Or her) bag of talent and wind up the opposite lock - Slide caught, and you are away! It is a car that you can drive right up to the limit and step over it from time to time and like a big hairy dog the Viper will help you back from the brink, Unlike the RGT which will have a try to push you over the cliff when you are not looking!

    RGT - Joy - The car is so pointy you will need to concentrate to delicately waft the car into corners. Things come unstuck quite literally in the high speed stuff... then the outside rear will take a huge amount of punishment... It gives way then you can forget about reaching into that bag of talent - You need to "out think" this vengeful ghost of Lubwinka - It is a fine line between looking like a hero and flying off the track backwards. Personally I like the challenge but if you had to do a long race with a "moody" car then it would be a trial to drive at the limit.

    I love the initial laps in the RGT - Almost felt like I was cheating to have so much turn in! But all that pointy fun comes with a cost if you run tyre wear and no driver aids.

    The GTS is a great car - and It is hard to say it but the GTS was easier to drive as you don't have to adapt your lines as radically as I did to get the most out of the RGT.


    Ruf RGT 9 (120) Viper GTS 10(120)​

    *** Round 14 *** A Spec - Raw Pace : Fastest lap

    RGT - 1m21.811
    GTS - 1m22.315

    The RGT had the edge on raw pace, agile and nimble when it had fresh tyres. The Viper was close and consistent.

    Ruf RGT 10 (130) Viper GTS 9(129)​


    *** Round 15 *** A Spec - Raw Pace : Race time

    RGT - (11m56.911) SS Lap 4 Stop for Tyres only
    GTS - (11m55.780) SS Lap 4 stop for 25 Litres (19 litres asked for)

    Shucks - I actually ran the RGT second and thought it had won it when I was writing the times down - Not often the car with the fastest lap doesn't rack up the race win, untilI saw the GTS actually edged it over the race distance! And Fastest laps are for show, the real winners are judged on race time... (Usually I would split the round but Look at it the Viper was over a whole second faster after 20 miles... 1.131 seconds! )
    Ruf RGT 9(139) Viper GTS 10(139)

    The winner by the closest of Margins

    Viper GTS
     
  13. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    I'll start with the Viper. The first-generation Viper is one of the best sounding cars of all time in my opinion. In GT6 we have the ill faded '99 model which has been in the series since GT2, and the more recently '02 model (the final year for the first generation model). Driving it in GT6 isn't that hard if you can get used to the 449 HP it has under the hood. Not only does it have power, but it has the performance as well. Cornering is somewhat of a joy, and the car eats up the straights. The only trouble spot is on the tighter corners in which the car understeers a bit. Exterior options include a barely noticeable front splitter, a big flat floor, and a special wing along with the other custom wings.

    The RGT. A more upped version of the 996 GT3 from Porsche. RUFs are truly a unique brand in the GT series, from the BTR, CTR, up to the CTR2. Anyone who has driven one of these could easily tell you that they're no walk in the park, which makes this car that much more fun. This car doesn't slide quite as much as the BTR, in fact it is somewhat easy once you can grasp its driving style. I'm not saying that it's a starter car, but instead a car for the enthuiast. It definitely likes to kick the tail out and try to mess up your lap time. It kinda wants to kill you on tricky corners, but pays off in the end when you finally get used to it. Even though its harder to drive than the Viper, it isn't very far off pace. This is a semi-premium car, but it cannot have any exterior modifications except for rims. After testing these two, my car of choice this week is.....

    The RGT

    Both cars were tested at Big Willow, no aids except ABS 1.

    Viper GTS: 1:23.442
    RGT: 1:22.975
    And the votes:

    Viper: 5
    RGT: 8

    And the winner is.....​

    [​IMG]
    The 2000 RGT!!!

    Congrats to G_ASHER for putting down a winning time 1:22.481 with the Viper and for getting a winning time of 1:22.332 in the RGT! Next week is already week 40, so if you have any suggestions, please start a conversation with me. One last note though. I want to thank everyone who has participated in this thread. Lately this thread has been attracting more and more members, which is great. This thread wouldn't be here without you guys! :cheers:
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2016
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  14. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    This week I chose two cars that have a great history in the automotive world. Not only are these two the same drivetrain, but these two are also close rivals when it comes to lap times. So this week's duel is.....

    10_xkr_10my_d6b31-626x382.jpg The 2010 Jaguar XKR Coupe

    vs

    2010-aston-martin-db9-coupe-photo-409193-s-1280x782.jpg
    The 2006 Aston Martin DB9 Coupe!!!


    We had a similar duel some time back, with the V12 Vantage and the XKR-S. This time we have two V8s a V12 and a V8, FR drivetrains, and plenty of power for the road. This weeks time trial will take place at Silverstone International, a shortened version of the famed GP circuit. So with that, let the battle begin.​
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2016
  15. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Did it have it's own fridge on Top Gear? Does it actually have a V12... could have a sneaky winner here if it comes with some dark green paint!
     
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  16. VspecZR1GT2RS89

    VspecZR1GT2RS89

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    Sorry if I'm late, I been having a hoot with the Viper and the RGT (996) from some tests. But with further adooooo.....

    Dodge Viper GTS 2002 (SR) vs. RUF RGT/Porsche 911 GT3 (996)

    We come a long way with two iconic sports cars of the world. Both who presents a challenge to those who wish to push their driving skills and driving pleasure to a whole new level. Meet the Dodge Viper and RUF RGT, two amazing cars who are still with us in the automotive world and in motorsports (for the RGT, the 911 RSR). Today, we hear many talk about the monstrous, deadly, and all rounded SRT Viper ACR and the driving precision, and a RSR for the road 991 GT3 RS and the new RUF that takes form of the 991 for hardcore enthusiasts. But lets go back a decade or two now...... In the late 1990s and early 2000s, the sports car was developing into a well rounded and even reliable car with the features like a Civic and a M5, but there were several that have some amazing technology and advanced mechanisms for the road and track. But they still have the DNA of sports cars of the past: raw, powerful, and desire a passion for speed and precise driving skills to have a fulfilling experience. The 2002 Viper GTS and the 2000 RUF RGT are the answer to the challenging, enthusiastic, hardcore, and maybe crazy individuals who want a challenge. And these two amazing machines of the early 21st century delivers. Let us see who will be the winners here.....

    Visuals:
    When I look at both cars, in my eyes they are both beautifully designed and created for their own purpose. Between the serpent-like presence of the Viper GTS against a iconic design that has been with many enthusiasts and car lovers all over the world, the rounded, rear engine design, the 911. When people think about the world's most beautiful designed cars in the world, they think of the Italians. Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and Pagani Zonda/Huyara comes to mind. But these two cars can put many from Italy to shame with their unique sculptures in their era. These cars now brawl in the looks department, but as much as I love the 911 GT3 turned track monster by a genius in the town of Pfaffenhausen (and Porsche 911s), The deadly serpent with almond-shaped eyes with a devious grin that says "Don't you even think about it, unless you want to meet the beast!", all with a instant pack of poisonous venom inside its veins, Viper GTS takes the win here. (This was a tough choice here for me, I like them both :crazy::lol:.)


    Paint:
    The RUF wins this one hand down! There is 12 different types of paints to chose from compared to the Viper's 6 (or 7 with the Blue and White GTS signature paint which can be made by several metallic blues, the Viper in this test was a Sonic Blue Metallic.) The RUF's colors are also similar to the Porsche 911 GT3 (996) color palette as well, thus showing his relative colors with his sleek and performance wise body kit.


    Time Attack:

    Big Willow Times
    GTS:
    CS Tires: 1:26.769
    SH Tires: 123.831

    RGT:
    CS Tires: 1:27.507
    SH Tires: 1:23.637

    Nurburgring GP
    GTS:

    CS Tires: 2:23.430
    SH Tires: 2:18.126

    RGT:
    CS Tires: 2:22.764
    SH Tires: 2:16.706

    Tubuska (One lap in the rain with sports hards) (Sudden Death Battle*)

    GTS:
    1:20.567
    RGT: 1:19.828

    When we first did the drive with the comfort soft tires for the Viper, I thought I was going for a wild ride, NOT! The GTS handled like a dream, even with TCS on, on every track I drove the GTS on with these tires I was expecting some sliding from the intense torque and power of the 8.0L V10 trying to force me to fight with the poisonous car, sure I got some amazing drifts on each track, but after I slithered around the corners, I easily corrected the pitch of the wheel with my DS3, and she just behaves. Amazing! The Viper is a fun car to drive, it is not for the faint of heart, but even people like them can easily understand the Viper's handling and response, but with the right setups of course. But for me I can talk and listen to the Snakes (Harry Potter reference here ;)) and they communicate to me back out there on the road. Although I did slip several times on Willow and Tubuska by overpowering a drift Do'h!:banghead:

    The RUF was another pleasure and thrill to drive on these three tracks, as with the Viper, I was preparing myself for the silent widow maker or the mutated RUF to slash me to pieces and chew me up, especially on Tubuska. But even with driving both the comfort and sports tires, she felt really responsive and perfectly balanced in the corners, giving me the courage to add more throttle to get the wheels spinning for some drifting action. Similar to the Viper, the 996 placed a smile on my face as glided trough corners, especially on the GP course, just so precise and without flaw. I even drifted on my best lap with two chained drifts in the corners! It was a blast and I would recommend the RGT as a great track and drift car to anyone.

    The final challenge was made to see who can take the title of this versus debate, the track was wet, it was after some heavy rain that hit Japan and we were to come back tomorrow to do the challenge. We said we'll take the track now, in the wet for this final showdown. It was a difficult one for both cars, they kept on sliding and hydroplaning on the wet Tubuska like a slippery wet fish on a glass table. The returning champ, Viper met his challenge here. With all of the torque and power almost taking me out in the corners, but managed to get the time of 1:20. The RGT was a nightmare on the wet, Kiddies don't try this at home now. But I easily duked it out with the shiny wet course with the RR sports car and nearly lost it at one corner, but I drift the corner keeping the car from touching the grass under the Dunlop tire sign with ease. After nearly losing to the wet, we both managed a respectable time of 1:19, easily beating the Viper.

    Verdict:

    It was a fun challenge with both cars, I can say that both of them actually one this challenge since thy both brought a interactive and thrilling drive I had in a while. I'm a fan of both cars, ever since I was a kid (I have been inside two Vipers a Viper GTS and RT/10) and the choice is tough between these two driver-focused machines and icons of the 90s and 00s. My heart says both, but I must chose......





    The RUF RGT 996 is the winner here, congrats! :D
     
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  17. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    Nice review. I added your vote to the results for the previous week as well :tup:
     
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  18. NOS systems

    NOS systems (Banned)

    Messages:
    7
    Tested these on my custom track and the results were quite interesting to me

    CS tires
    DB9: 2:45.559
    XKR: 2:45.002

    SH tires
    DB9: 2:40.240
    XKR: 2:40.788

    Interesting that the XKR is faster on one type on tire and the DB9 is faster on the other.
    My verdict?
    Both of them win, because two great British cars are better than any American rivals (ex. Viper GTS, Corvette C5 ZO6 etc)
     
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  19. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
    1,489
    Location:
    United States
    Christ on a bicycle, we get it, you hate American cars. No need to bring it up when there aren't even any American cars being tested. Just put "American cars suck" in your sig and be done with it.

    Anyway, it seems these cars aren't quite as evenly matched as some of the past duels have been. The Jag feels a bit too heavy compared to the Aston, and the 100kg difference between them make quite the difference when it comes to the handling.

    Silverstone Trial:
    XKR - 1:14.693
    DB9 - 1:14.115

    Rotenboden Trial:
    XKR - 1:48.236
    DB9 - 1:47.756

    SSR5 Trial:
    XKR - 1:36.004
    DB9 - 1:34.625

    On the Silverstone trial, it took a few laps for the XKR to reach its best lap time. The DB9 beat the XKR's best on the very first lap around. The DB9 was also clearly the better car on my normal two trials. This is an interesting twist considering the similar duel 20 weeks ago on week #20 with the V12 Vantage and the XKR-S, where I gave the XKR-S my vote.

    This time, the Aston Martin gets my vote.
     
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  20. GT_Alex74

    GT_Alex74

    Messages:
    1,187
    Location:
    Switzerland
    @Cowboy The DB9 is a V12, not a V8 ;) The Vantage of similar years has a V8 version (however it is not in the game).

    Still, looking at both cars, you wonder if it's still like it was back in the days, when the XK and the DB7 shared a common platform. Styling has the Ian Callum signature in both case, but the modern XK and the DB9, despite being often compared in real life, now have different chassis structures. Which makes quite the difference on track :

    Trial Mountain, comfort softs, ABS 1

    Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06 01:39,009
    Jaguar XKR Coupe '10 01:39,725


    Despite the power difference, the Aston Martin has quite the edge over the Jaguar. The DB9 feels more solid, more predictable, and has definitely more traction. The XKR is a bit faster in longer straights, but that's far from enough to compensate, and it is not really faster at corner exits. It seems also less consistent.

    Interestingly, when looking at the gear ratios graphs, the Jag's looks prettier, more regular on the 6 gears, while 6th is overly long on the Aston. But looking more deeply into it, the 4 first gears are actually staged better for performance on the Aston (which also has a shorter diff), with a long 1st, while those gears are closer on the Jag. On track, it translates by being "kinda "between" two gears on most corners with the XKR, while the DB9 doesn't have this problem and remains in the right RPM range for corner exits.

    Suspension setting is also interestying to compare : both cars have similar spring rates in the rear, but the Aston is softer on the front and the Jag is harder on the front. The Aston having more traction shows that body rigidity is clearly better than its opponent's. Then, the 100kg advantage is not to neglect either, and contributes to that firmer feeling.

    So Aston Martin wins this one for me.
     
  21. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    Oops, error on my part. Fixed :cheers:
     
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  22. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,052
    Once again I seem to be all bassackwards. I like the Jag better. I put down a decent time in the TT but cannot get within 2 seconds of it in the Aston. Practice isn't helping much :scared:
     
  23. Marc30599

    Marc30599

    Messages:
    582
    Jaguar XKR '10
    Brands Hatch Indy Circuit
    Price: $155,000
    Stock
    511 PP
    Max Power:502 HP
    Max Torque:461.4 ft-lb
    Weight:1,810 kg
    Best Time: 0.53.437

    Modded
    550 PP
    Max Power:590 HP
    Max Torque:509 ft-lb
    Weight:1,466 kg
    Best Time: 0.50.388

    Aston Martin DB9 '06
    Brands Hatch Indy Circuit
    Price: $181,860
    Stock
    505 PP
    Max Power:449 HP
    Max Torque:420.2 ft-lb
    Weight: 1,710 kg
    Best Time: 0.53.093

    Modded
    550 PP
    Max Power:563 HP
    Max Torque:486 ft-lb
    Weight:1,453 kg
    Best Time: 0.50.037

    Jaguar Times
    [​IMG]

    After the Aston Martin entered equation

    [​IMG]


    Stock Jaguar XKR Coupe '10 Time Trial


    Stock Aston Martin DB9 '06 Time Trial


    Summary

    So Jag Vs Aston Martin? I personally love Aston Martins but let's see, as the times state, the DB9 is the faster car here although from the specs it doesn't look like it, but of course it will cost you more... So the clear winner here is the DB9 :)


     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2016
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  24. Aggserp4

    Aggserp4

    Messages:
    384
    I've been waiting for this duel for far too long.
     
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  25. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

    Messages:
    3,410
    Location:
    United States
    Jaguar XKR Coupe '10
    5.0L
    502 hp / 6,200 rpm
    461 ft-lb / 2,500 rpm
    1,810 kg (3,990 lbs)
    511 pp

    Aston Martin DB9 Coupe '06
    5.9L
    448 hp / 6,000 rpm
    420 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,710 kg (3,770 lbs)
    505 pp

    Despite the DB9's bigger engine, it makes less power and torque than the XKR. 54 horses and 41 ft-lbs to be exact. The good news is the Aston weighs 220 lbs less than the Jag. Now, let's see who's faster at Mid-Field on Comfort Soft tires!




    Max speed reached on track:

    153 mph - XKR
    149 mph - DB9

    Jag had lower speed through each corner but higher speed down the straights.

    If the gap were at least more than 0.500 seconds, then I could say the Aston is definitively faster, but with the difference being only 2 tenths, the Jag might be the actual winner.

    I prefer Aston over Jaguar. My only complaint with the Aston and most (all?) Astons is the weird tachometer with the needle pointed to the right (at rest) as opposed to the normal left.
     
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  26. Aggserp4

    Aggserp4

    Messages:
    384
    Has there ever been a Camaro SS vs Charger SRT8 duel? They have exactly the same PP!
     
    Marc30599 likes this.
  27. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England
    In the Ghilles Green Corner from Gaydon Warwickshire in England tipping the scales at 1710kg,
    The Aston Martin Deebeenine!
    jagdb92.jpg

    And in the Botanical Green Metallic Corner from Castle Bromwich in England tipping the scales at 1810kg,
    The Jaguar Eckskayarr.

    *** Round 1 *** Paint chips ***

    Jaguar hits hard with 13 chips and maybe the best Dark green in the game - Botanical Green Metallic - Looks like saturated liquid green velvet on the car!
    The Aston replies with a flurry of 20 chips and a previous favourite flavour of dark green, Ghilles Green.

    This is tough as both have some really good shades, without dipping too deep into the "Chavette" make up box of bright colours (Jaguar's "Salsa" aside! - I don't care if Ian Callum's own XKR is this shade of trashy lipstick!)
    I think I have to edge this to the Jag as the big cat has my favourite nugget of purest green.


    XKR - 13 DB9 - 11 (marks out of ten, obviously.)

    *** Round 2 *** Film Star looks ***

    Both cars are blessed with near perfect proportions. The Jag has a larger more fleshy frame to it which when you hear it was the inspiration for the English Actress Kate Winslett figure - Hold on, Sorry, Kate Winslett was the inspiration for the XK's more curvy looks.

    The DB9 had a tough act to follow - the DB7 which was drawn up by Ian Callum, the same guy who was drawing Jaguars with some Celine Dion softly playing in the drawing room. Famous Dane, Henrik Fisker was the man who carved the DB9 out of clay and didn't he do a great job!

    Both cars are good looking, and it could be a toss up over which you prefer. Maybe the overt Jaguar branding "Supercharger" on the bonnet and wheels is a bit too much for you? jagsup.jpg jagwheel.jpg

    Maybe the way the front of the Aston looks like a Fiat Punto. Maybe the way the front of the Jaguar looks like an old XKE (E-Type)... when I put it like that you would think that I preferred the Jag, but you can argue the DB9 had produced a number of copy cat cars (Ford Focus having a very DB9 front)

    XKR - 11(24) DB9 - 12(23)

    *** Round 3 *** Cost ***


    If you have to ask how much it is, then you can't afford it...

    XKR - 155,000 Kazulas
    DB9 - 181,860 Kazulas

    The Aston has always been known as an expensive car, But the DB9 was a car that diluted the kudos of having an Aston. The CEO wanted to produce many more DB9's to increase brand awareness at the expense of exclusivity.
    The Jag doesn't have to do much as it is a brand that dominated at LeMans in the past but it must hurt that the DB9's Racing brother (DBR9) was a back to back class winner at LeMans and won several other Endurance events, so has a more recent claim to motorsport glory than the XK can claim. But the Jag is still more of a bargain.

    XKR- 10 (34) - DB9 - 9(32)

    *** Round 4 *** Gearbox ***

    Jaguar has an Automatic... Dear, Oh dear. (Which I will not be using when I drive it in GT6)
    The Aston has a nice manual Graziano 6 speed. Which has a useless 6th gear and a hard stretched 5th gear which compromises high speed performance - But at least it isn't an Automatic!
    (Insta-win for the Gaydon Growler?)

    XKR- 7 (41) - DB9 - 10(42)


    *** Round 5 *** Fear my Powah ***

    XKR - 502bhp
    DB9 - 449bhp

    The usual line is "there is no replacement for displacement" - but the Eaton Supercharger makes the 5 litre V8 in the Jag able to bench press much more horsepower than the, otherwise mighty, 6 litre V12 in the front of the Aston.

    XKR- 10 (51) - DB9 - 9(51)


    *** Round 6 *** You Torque the Torque, but do you... ***

    XKR 63.8 torques (kgfm)
    DB9 58.1 torques (kgfm)

    A Supercharger gives the "R" XK a torque band, that is extremely thick right across the rev range-
    The DB9 can't compete with just a puny naturally aspirated six litre V12 -


    XKR- 10 (61) - DB9 - 9(60)

    ***Round 7 *** Tipping the scales at... ***

    XKR - 1810kg (54:46) - Big engine and Lots of Leather and Walnut and an Eaton Blower from the colonies.
    DB9 - 1710kg (52:48) - Bigger engine lots of Leather and Walnut, Bang and Olufsen Stereo.

    XKR- 9 (70) - DB9 - 10(70)

    *** Round 8 *** Around the Horn. ***

    DB9 - Honest brassy parp
    XKR - Not quite as good as the Aston

    XKR- 9 (79) - DB9 - 10(80)

    *** Round 9 *** Top Speed ***

    DB9 - 200mph in 5th (Tickling the red line) - if you try for 6th the car runs out of puff and slides down to a 188mph ultimate speed.
    XKR - 217mph in 6th (Drag Limited)

    XKR 10 (89) - DB9 - 8(88)
    jagdb9.jpg
    *** Round 10 *** Route X Lap Time ***
    18.82miles after a rolling start. no slipstreams....
    DB9 - 5m55.912
    XKR - 5m25.553

    If you want a fast car - you get a Jaguar.

    XKR 10 (99) - DB9 8 (96)


    *** Round 11 *** Engine cacophony ***

    DB9 has a nice deep rumble but if you cruise along at a constant high speed the engine note will loop and oscillate... But on a normal circuit this is not as much of an issue.

    XKR - a medley of mechanical music - the Supercharger give the car a lot of added crunch to the sound of the car - the down side is once you get to take off speed the car has an amusing farting sound - this could be a deal breaker, or you may find that amusing in a schoolboy kind of way.

    XKR 10(109) DB9 10(106)

    *** Round 12 *** Single Lap Trial***

    Jack Rabbits Springs 20 miler with mandatory pit stop at mid distance to check the tyres and note down the fuel use and have a quick Gibson cocktail and polish off The Times crossword puzzle. All Driver aids off.

    XKR - 1m24.385
    DB9 - 1m24.517

    The Big Pussy edged it but the DB9 was very close over a single good lap.

    XKR 10 (119) - DB9 9 (115)

    *** Round 13 *** Tyre wear ***


    Both cars shred the tyres down to the canvas, but you can still maintain a fair old lick of speed without any sudden psychotic cornering issues - sure they both get lazy and don't want to go as fast but they both give the driver ample time to correct any looseness at the rear and understeer is obvious very early on.
    However the Aston is much lighter on its feet and doesn't mash the tyres as much.

    XKR - 9 (128) - DB9 - 10 (125)


    *** Round 14 *** Drinking Habits ***

    You would expect the larger engine to driink more fuel especially as it revs higher... but that supercharger in the Jag guzzles extra fuel like it is last orders down the pub meaning the big cat needs a bigger bowl of high octane milk to cover the same distance.

    XKR 9 (137) - DB9 10 (135)

    *** Round 15 *** Handling ***

    Both car have a big heavy engine front mounted and as a rule both will push into a corner and put loads of stress on the outside front tyre. But I prefered the drive of the DB9 - There is not alot in it, but the DB9 was a bit more nimble in the corners and the higher rev limit on the engine was less intrusive.

    XKR 9 (146) DB910 (145)

    *** Round 16 *** Race Pace ***

    XKR - 12m23.825
    DB9 - 12m13.214

    10 and a half second is a long long time. The Jaguar could go really fast but it demolished its tyres to do so. The Aston was just as fast but could maintain that pace for longer.
    XKR 8(154) DB9 10 (155)


    Ryk's Winner - The Aston Martin DB9.

    Both cars are great fun and will apeal to the eco friendly tree huggers from the Vega star system.
    - Both cars are Green after all.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2016
    no1pal, ProjectF, Rotorist and 7 others like this.
  28. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    Messages:
    5,538
    Location:
    United States
    The Camaro and the Charger have each been in a duel but not against each other.
     
  29. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,052
    Well......I couldn't leave well enough alone and gave the DB9 another chance. After 10 or 15 laps I was able to improve on my XKR time at Silverstone by 0.12 seconds, however my fastest lap in the Jag came on lap 2 and I didn't put anymore effort into it. Then there's tuning. I spent more than a couple hours with the DB9 and was unable to tune it to my satisfaction. I threw my basic FR tune on the Jag, made one camber and toe change and I find it pretty decent. So I stand by my previous statement that I favor the Jaguar.
     
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  30. Arp 273

    Arp 273

    Messages:
    93
    The Aston Martin DB9 looks fantastic and handles great. It sounds good too but the Jag XKR sound has more character to it. And it farts :odd:. Unfortunately the XKR is hampered by it's gearbox (to quick on the limiter in 2nd and not enough oomph in 3rd) thats why the DB9 can keep up on a circuit. The DB9 is very stable, the XKR can be a bit twitchy on corner exit. Performance is very close. Against Arcade AI the XKR produces a bit more interesting races; because of it's gearbox the AI can pull away. That can be fun, but it's not enough to tip the scale..

    :sly: This one was always going to go to the Aston Martin DB9 :cheers: