GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Mazda Axela 23S (Hōfu) vs Honda Civic (EK) Type-R (Suzuka)
    axela type r.jpg

    *** Round 1 *** Price ***
    Honda 19980cr
    Mazda - 19500cr

    Honda Civic Type R 9 ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 10

    *** Round 2 *** Paint chips ***
    Honda 3 (three)
    Mazda - 9 (nine)(Bonus point for having a dark green? Not really, as it is a very grey hue.)

    Honda Civic Type R 8(17) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 10(20)

    *** Round 3 *** Powah ***
    Honda - 182bhp (176bhp on the track)
    Mazda - 168bhp (169bhp on the track)

    Honda Civic Type R 10(27) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(29)​

    *** Round 4 *** Weight ***
    Honda - 1050kg 59:41
    Mazda - 1260kg 59:41

    Big old chunk of weight on that Mazda to huff about...

    Honda Civic Type R 10(37) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 7(36)​

    *** Round 5 *** Torque ***
    Honda - 16.3kgfm
    Mazda - 21.8kgfm
    But a big old chunk of grunty torque to balance out the weight

    Honda Civic Type R 8(45) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 10(46)


    *** Round 6 *** I Feel the Need - Historic Route X Part 1***
    Velocity at the 5000m split (Top of the Bridge)
    This really shows how much oomph the engine has to grind a car up that incline. (Really I should have noted the time but when has my scoring ever been consistent!)

    Honda - 143mph
    Mazda - 138mph

    Honda Civic Type R 10(55) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(55)​


    *** Round 7 *** I Feel the Need - Historic Route X Part 2***
    Vmax at the 20000m - Mid way along the back straight - Ever wondered what is the top speed of each car is,in clean air, on the flat... Wonder no more!
    Honda - 154mph
    Mazda - 152mph

    Honda Civic Type R 10(65) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(64)​


    *** Round 8 *** I Feel the Need - Historic Route X Part 3***
    Full Lap time
    Honda - 7m39.300
    Mazda - 7m47.571

    Honda Civic Type R 10(75) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(73)​

    Eight Hard rounds of head to head - and the Honda is just ahead mostly due to being faster, lighter and more powerful. The Mazda scored well in other important areas such as price and paint chips. Oh and it has much more torque. which is a good job as while I was in the passenger seat at Route X I noticed the Mazda only has 4 forward gears... what is this 1970?

    *** Round 9 *** Looks ***

    Honda - Now it is much less fussy smooth sleek uncluttered ... boringly understated
    Mazda - Maybe it is just me but this Mazda isn't pretty, sharp "Bangle" like lines make me think of a BMW M5 hatch back concept... It looks big and bulky probably as it is a Japanese car sized for the more portly American/European (Big bum) market. Another thing that hurt it in my eyes was the MX-5's and RX-7 all around it... and I had to pick this frumpy dumpy car.

    Honda Civic Type R 10(85) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(82)​


    *** Round 10 *** 450pp seasonal at Autumn Ring Mini in Autumn***

    Honda - 46.4 - 3m30.8 (best of two runs)
    Mazda - 46.3 - 3m30.0 (Single attempt)
    -
    I gave the Honda two goes and I managed to go slower on my second run, Like a Soldier! The Mazda felt very compromised with its lower revs and modest number of gear ratios, but once I accepted that I got on with it, and beat the Honda on that "get a feel for the car" first run... who knows what would have happened if I applied myself. I was very surprised with the lap time.

    Honda Civic Type R 8(93) ::: Mazda Axela 23S -10(92)


    *** Round 11 *** How does it drive ***

    Honda - underwhelming, the Engine had promise but the gears felt a bit too wide in the 2nd/3rd gear transition. The car was front wheel drive so you (Ryk anyhow) never get much out of it in terms of feel, Thankfully it was light so it didn't kill the tyres but corners were still painful to navigate at speed.
    Mazda - The gears are few, 1st does you to 40mph or so - 2nd does the guts of the driving and 3rd deals with speeds of over 75mph which at Autumn Ring meant I was in 2nd gear for most of the lap, thankfully the car has a deeper fatter power curve so you can rely on the engine to muscle you about. The car may have had added weight and less power but it felt easier to boss about a track - Maybe the extra width (track) of the car gave the fronts a bit more stability letting you maintain traction. During my run I thought it was going to be smoked by the Civic, The Engine is much less of a demanding high revs diva. The 2.2 litre just burbles on. Deceptively Fast.

    Honda Civic Type R 9(102) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 10(102)

    *** Round 12 *** Engine note ***

    Honda - Christina Aguilera at the Super bowl half time advertisement pageant - ridiculous little screech-ah!
    Mazda - Luciano Pavarotti at the World Cup - None shall sleep.

    Big old lump or an over stressed midget? The Honda sounds better, more racy, The Mazda's 2.2 litre plods along with little fanfare.

    Honda Civic Type R 10(112) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 9(111)​


    *** Final Round *** 450pp seasonal at Autumn Ring Mini in Autumn - AGAIN!***

    Mazda - 46.1 - 3m29.6 (Mazda - Run 1)
    Mazda - 46.4 - 3m28.9 (Mazda - Run 2)(Both times lost to a Honda NSX)

    The Mazda has set the pace - And for once I've improved my times (Which are not optimal as traffic and me being a slowpoke!)
    Can the Honda take the Round and ... the match up?

    Honda - 46.6 - 3m29.9 (Honda - Run 1) (Actually won the event! Beating up three Mazda RX-7's - 666,000 kazulas well earned!)
    Honda - 46.4 - 3m29.3 (Honda - Run 2) (Only second - 400,000 credits to cry into!)

    Well I expected the Civic to win, but the Axela just edged it. So the first generation Axel beat the 6th Generation Civic. Gah now I have Harold Faltermeyer's Axel-F in my head. (Replacing a dancing 39 year old Toni Basil's "Mickey")

    Honda Civic Type R 8(120) ::: Mazda Axela 23S - 10(121)

    So Ryk recommends the Harold Faltermeyer Axel-F (Not the Crazy Frog thing)
    beverly.jpg
    Axel F approves of the Axel A victory, Yesterday​
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  2. Draggon

    Draggon

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    Since the parameters of the TT are still off and the Civic can't enter, I'm going to try the 'Ring like you guys and see what falls out.

    Edit: I took these both to Nurburgring and had interesting results. The Civic is a nice FF which is what is expected-handles well, is quick, but has some considerable understeer when pushed. Rear brake bias or handbrake is necessary to navigate the sharper turns. One has to pay attention to get the most out of it.

    Then the Mazda. Woah. What a surprise. It just goes where you point it. Amazing turn-in and rotation, and I found myself enjoying the drive immensely. It's only drawback is the transmission. Theres a big gap between 2nd and 3rd gears. I built up a couple second lead over the Civic more than once only to find half of that eaten up when I went into 3rd. However, 4th is good, and on Doettinger-Hohe I only lost a half second.

    The times, all aids off except ABS 1, CS tires.

    Civic 8:59.362
    Axela 8:53.687

    The Axela gets my vote!
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2016
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  3. MightyL

    MightyL

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    funny how the mazda is faster in your hands. in mine the civic is but exactly the same feeling about driving the axela. it's a cornering joy! your times nordschleife or 24h version?
     
  4. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    My apologies on the time trial guys. I completely forgot about the issue with the Mazda, and have now fixed it.

    Should run smooth now.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  5. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    The problem wasn't with the Mazda, it was with the Civic. The Civic is 10 kilos too light for the regulations. The regulations need to be at 1050 kg, not 1060.

    I've already done a trial outside of the event for the Civic, so I won't have an official time for the Civic on the event, just the result from the trial I did.

    ______________________________________________________________

    Anyway, since I have a limited amount of time this week to actually do my trials, I'll get my review done with.

    Not too much I can say about these two cars. The Mazda Axela is a car I've passed by on the Mazda dealership countless times, and the Civic Type R is literally the first car that comes to mind when I think FF. How do these two stack up?

    Tsukuba Trial:
    Axela - 1:11.218
    Civic - 1:10.621

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Axela - 2:04.353
    Civic - 2:02.801

    SSR5 Trial:
    Axela - 1:46.982
    Civic - 1:46.211

    So the Civic won. I may like the Axela a little more based on its behavior, but I usually think of the Civic when thinking of FF performers. I may like the Integra Type R more, but the EK9 is still a very solid performer. Still displays the classic understeer you'd expect from a Civic, but it's definitely manageable.

    Civic wins.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2016
  6. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    Hi all again!

    Since we couldn't compare those in the lobby, I decided to run them on free run on Tsukuba (real grip settings, no aids, ABS=1, tires CS) and post those times here.

    BUT! As Axela has an auto 4-speed gearbox as its stock transmission, I decided to try it with both stock AND the sport transmission (close 5-speed ratio which should be close to the first 5 speeds of its 6-speed manual in real life, so still a pretty fair comparison imho to a very close 5-speed Type-R).

    Tsucuba circuit time trial (9 laps each in 10 mins time)

    Model--------------------------------laptime----------------topspeed (kph)-----max lateral G-force

    Axela 23S '03 4-speed --------------- 1.10,295 ---------- 153 -------------------- 1.04
    Axela 23S '03 custom 5-speed ------ 1.09,714 ---------- 156 -------------------- 1.03
    Civic Type-R '97 ----------------------- 1.09,774 ---------- 154 -------------------- 1.03

    Here we have 2 very different contenders in the way they were made and the purpose of them as products but they ended up being matched up perfectly. Thanks for the proper duel selection Cowboy ! :cheers:

    I like Type-R's sporty styling, lightness and high-revving engive going up to 9000 rpm but I am more surprised by the Axela's performance since it is just a family 5d (not hot-)hatch. And that's why it gets my vote in the end.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
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  7. MidFieldMaven

    MidFieldMaven

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    Honda Civic Type R (EK) '97
    1.6L
    176 hp / 8,000 rpm
    117 ft-lb / 7,500 rpm
    1,050 kg (2,315 lbs)
    390 pp

    Mazda Axela 23S '03
    2.3L
    169 hp / 6,500 rpm
    158 ft-lb / 4,000 rpm
    1,260 kg (2,778 lbs)
    387 pp

    Civic gear speed (in mph)
    1st: 40
    2nd: 63
    3rd: 93
    4th: 121
    5th: ???

    Axela gear speed (in mph)
    1st: 41
    2nd: 80
    3rd: 116
    4th: ???

    The Mazda has the advantage of being 6 years newer. 6 years is the difference between the EG '91 and EK '97 generation of Civics. It is also setup for the daily commute, not the weekend racetrack, so it has a healthy amount of grunt at mid-range thanks to an engine 700 cc's larger in size than the Honda.

    Both cars come with Comfort Soft tires, so it was a nice bonus to not have to buy them. Let's turn the traction control off and ABS to 1 and see how they perform!




    And the old but gold Honda wins by 2 full seconds, as it should. B16B is possibly my favorite FF motor of all time, especially the Spoon version:

    The Mazda is cool and all, but it doesn't make me feel special like the CTR does.
     
  8. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

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    Despite not doing the DOTW this week as we know it, I have logged quite a few hundred km's in both vehicles, mainly when I was starting out my GT6 life, and I personally prefer the EK. It gets the detailed treatment, it feels like it has more character to it when you drive it, and it's an all round more fun package. :D
    It's a true Japanese sports car, wheras the Axela's just a daily commuter that happened to have a bit more punch than normal. And while I do like thrashing the Axela every now and again, the EK finds my favour in this one. :)
     
  9. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    The Mazda Axela is kind of an oddball car in GT6. Hidden in the wilderness of Miatas, you find this new age hatch sitting quietly. There isn't much that's special about this one. The steering is the typical of the FF cars, which is understeer. There's no interior so I can't say anything about that either. Otherwise, it's just a pumped up Mazda 3.

    The EK Civic is a popular car among ricers. Most can be found pretty cheap, and that's a target for these hip youngsters who think a Speedhunters sticker makes their car faster. Bit this isn't any Civic though, this is the track ready Type-R variant. Honda has a bunch of these models, spanning from the Civic to the legend that is the NSX. It's attitude shows on the track with its racer like feeling. So my vote this week goes to.....

    The Civic

    Both cars tested at Tsukuba, no aids except ABS 1, CS tires:

    Axela: 1:12.063
    Civic: 1:10.820

    And the votes:

    Axela: 5
    Civic: 4

    And the winner is.....

    cars_for_sale_8460106473898144439.jpg The '03 Axela 23S!!!
     
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  10. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Ok @Nismonath5, how does it feel to be selected for the chooser of the next duel?

    Must feel good then. What do we have this week good sir?

    ShowroomAltezzaTC10Yellow.jpg
    The 2001 Toyota Altezza Touring Car

    vs

    mazda6_touring_car_by_darth4114.jpg
    The 2002 Mazda 6 Touring Car!!!


    Man said it all. This weeks trial will be at Tsukuba again, and i'm pretty sure I got the regulations right this time.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2016
  11. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    You wrote Tourong instead of Touring in the Altezza entry...
     
  12. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    I've heard great things about both of these touring cars, but never really tried them out for myself. I guess this week I had an excuse to rectify that.

    Tsukuba Trial:
    Altezza - 0:56.672
    6 - 0:59.229

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Altezza - 1:37.625
    6 - 1:41.546

    SSR5 Trial:
    Altezza - 1:27.088
    6 - 1:29.538

    As I can guarantee I've said countless times in this thread, it's quite staggering driving cars that are very well behaved when you're used to driving road cars that are flawed but mostly fun.

    The Altezza was nice and stable in the corners, though if you were being needlessly dumb or reckless with the throttle, you could definitely find yourself facing the other way. The 6 felt even more stable than the Altezza, but as we know, too much stability winds up making the car understeery, and thanks to the 4WD nature of the car, understeer it did, and I feel that made it lose lots of precious time in the corners, effectively handing the victory to the Altezza.

    The Altezza wins my vote.
     
  13. Rotorist

    Rotorist

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    So, here is my view on this duel.

    Mazda 6 TC: A very stable racing car, tendent to understeer due to 4WD, good torque from low rpm range. Easy to drive fast but some tuning is required to make it more agile.

    Toyota-Lexus Altezza TC: A very fast racing car due to high revving engine and RWD that gives nice agility. Small corrections needed on steering wheel if you overdo with the accelerator. Easy car to drive on the limit imho.

    Just by tuning diff-torque balance in Mazda to send more to the rear, it becomes faster but it is impossible to reach Altezza's laptime. Tried that in Tsukuba (free run, real grip) and gained almost 0,4" with only this setting set at 10(F)-90(R).

    Let's see the hotlap tt times on Tsukuba now.

    Altezza TC: 0:56.328

    Mazda 6 TC: 0:58.589

    As our friend ThrasherDBS wrote in the post above, Altezza is significantly faster with the default setup, so it wins the dual as any race car's only purpose is to be the faster one. Only a very large difference in price could give Mazda the win.
     
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  14. Ryk

    Ryk

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    Couple of ringers here, or at least very obscure touring cars The Altezza was in the BTCC as the Lexus IS200 ?maybe? a decade or so ago, plodding about some distance off the pace, but this is GT6.

    Firstly I like the Altezza as it always seemed like a great bargain of a car, generous downforce, punchy engine, sticky slicky tyres a very easy to understand FR layout, a few subtle colour options and for a real steal of a price, If GT6 had a much more well thought out economy model then this could be a go to car early in the game for those touring car events... but GT6 isn't.
    maz6atena.jpg
    The Atenza... oh I mean the "SIX" looks sleek bold striking livery but the main two gripes are, four wheel drive and the price. But who knows maybe it drives really well.

    Not sure why they have an Atenza and a Mazda6 - the 6 has an engine boost relative to the Atenza - but me being a drongo, I will swap between Mazda6 and Atenza for the foreseeable future.

    maz6alt banner.jpg

    *** Round One *** Looks ***

    Mazda - Pretty subtle look, very clean and strong lines. Looks a bit "Bathurst" to me sleek saloon car with a bit of power, but I doubt this has a big fat Holden V8 under the bonnet. But who knows it has a mystery engine!
    Toyota - Has a really heavy body kit on the bottom half of the car.

    Atenza 10 - Altezza - 9​


    *** Round Two *** Livery ***

    Mazda - Striking blue and yellow. Very much a GOODYEAR branded car.
    Toyota - Steel silver with subtle detail work lots of little sticker logos.
    yellow -10: black -24: blue -35 : red - 40

    Maybe the Mazda is a tad garish, but this is a track car and you want that car to be burned deep into the retinas of the petrolhead fans watching so they will leave the grandstands like Zombies to purchase whatever product was on the car. You do get more of a range from the Altezza though... but far to subtle for spec racing.

    Atenza 10(20)- Altezza - 8(17)​


    *** Round Three *** Price ***

    Now I knew the Altezza was cheap but the Mazda6/Atenza isn't silly money - But it is more expensive. But both are quite the bargain.

    Mazda - 95,000 kazula
    Toyota - 75,000 kazula

    Atenza 8(28)- Altezza - 10(27)

    *** Round Four *** Powah ***

    Mazda - 304bhp
    Toyota - 300bhp

    Pretty close grunt from the cars with mystery power plants.


    Atenza 10(38)- Altezza - 9(36) ​

    *** Round Five *** Torque ***

    Mazda - 29kgfm
    Toyota - 27kgfm

    The Mazda6 has more potential acceleration force from its mystery engine.



    Atenza 10(48)- Altezza - 9(45) ​

    *** Round Six *** Weight ***

    Mazda - 1070kg
    Toyota - 1000kg

    70kg - 155lbs is as heavy as a lightweight MMA fighter. (Obviously a Khabib Nurmagomedov sized issue.)

    Atenza 9(57)- Altezza - 10(55) ​

    *** Round Seven *** Distribution of said weight ***

    Mazda - 63:37
    Toyota - 54:46

    Stunned at that nose heavy Mazda... Looks like Understeer will be an issue, But the Toyota at 54% isn't optimal, but it is... more optimaler!

    Atenza 7(64)- Altezza - 10(65) ​

    *** Round Eight *** Drive Train ***

    Mazda - All wheel drive
    Toyota - Rear wheel drive

    Four wheel drive - another bitter pill of understeer? The Altezza is the classic meat and potatoes Front engine rear wheel drive... I doubt the Mazda is secretly a Mid engined four wheel drive car due to the silly forward weight like an old 5 cylinder Audi quattro.

    Atenza 8(72)- Altezza - 10(75) ​


    Eight rounds in and I've not turned a wheel turned. Can you judge a car on numbers and brutal looks? If so then the Toyota holds the edge. But these are both touring cars so how good are they on track?

    One factor is you can alter the set up, so a bit of creative spring rates and jounce and droop numbers on the old shocks can transform a mutt into a mastiff (Big hunting dog) -

    If you have no ability in the dark art of ramp angles, clutch packs and tyre pressures then you can just fudge it with the Magic Aero settings... More front wing will decrease understeer ... If that doesn't work you have to dial out the rear wing.


    *** Round Nine *** 5 laps of Modern Spa-Francorchamps ***

    2m37.0 (13m44.9) Mazda6 (Stock)
    2m36.6 (13m42.7) Mazda6 (10/90 torque split)
    2m33.3 (13m25.4) Altezza

    Aw schucks the Toyota just drives away from the Mazda - Not sure on the straights but it was much easier to chuck into corners and felt alot better in the brakezone.

    This is a Knockout as the Altezza was not only more fun to drive but it was faster. Both cars are "safe racers" with no danger of the rear end kicking out - high speed understeer is the order of the day and in all fairness they both teach you how to avoid driving into the scenery just by being well mannered into the brake zones.

    I did run the Atenza Touring car but this was half as slow as the Altezza was faster than the Mazda6.

    The Toyota Altezza is the winner. Good solid modestly powered saloon cars.
     
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  15. Draggon

    Draggon

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    I found myself fighting to get the Mazda to rotate, whilst the Toyota went right where I pointed it. I was 3 seconds faster in the Toyota. Pretty easy verdict.

    Toyota Altezza :tup:
     
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  16. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Well there isn't much to say about the Mazda 6 TC. It has a fair amount of understeer, and you have to kinda fight with the car to point it where you want. However, this is the better looking if the two in my opinion, with a more smooth appearance. Still though, it isnt the most fun to drive.

    The Altezza TC has been in GT since GT3. However back then it had much more power than the GT6 version. This is one of my newer cars that i've bought, and maybe one of my new favorites. It handles very well with really no worries at all. Only downside for me is the appearance, which kinda looks like a tacked on body kit.

    But still, I choose Altezza

    Both cars tested at Tsukuba, no aids except ABS 1:

    Mazda 6: 0:59.812
    Altezza: 0:58.583

    And the votes:

    Mazda 6: 0 (rip)
    Altezza: 5

    And the winner is.....

    NrburgringNordschleife_8.jpg
    The '01 Altezza Touring Car!!!

    Congrats to @Rotorist for setting a winning time of 0:58.589 in the Mazda 6 and for setting a winning time of 0:56.328 in the Altezza!​
     
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  17. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

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    Before I announce this next duel, I have a sad announcement. I have decided to stop maintaining this thread after this week due tonthe fact that I have sort of moved on to the Forza series, and putting in the fact that college is getting in the way too. I'm just gonna copy and paste the full message from a conversation post I made:

    "You may have noticed in the past few weeks that i've been slacking on the Duel of the Week. Ever since I've started college my schedule has changed almost completely, and with that has to come some sacrifices. Not only am I busy during the week, but I usually get caught up in something on the weekends, giving me little time to give my reviews on Sundays. Plus, the Forza series is pulling me away from my PS3 more and more nowadays, and GT6 seems kinda on the final stretch in terms of competitions and racing series'. A similar thing occurred with the Forgotten Cars Thread that I used to have, but that one was mainly die to lack of interest from others. For all these reasons (except the last one) I am announcing that since next week falls conveniently on a new ten week period, the Duel of the Week will cease maintenance from me on week 70.

    I firstly would like to thank everyone who has participated with the thread. Literally, without you guys the thread most likely wouldn't have gotten past week 10. Its been a long road, with a couple bumps here and there *cough* XtremEdward *cough* and to make it well over a year is an accomplishment we can all be proud of. From the oldies of the thread like @=drifting24/7=and @ThrasherDBS, to the full on hardcore reviewers like @Ryk and @MrWaflz55, I just want to say.....

    Thank you."

    And I cant forget the others who stepped in time to time to cast a vote. Even the many people of GTPlanet who stopped in to say hi or something, thanks. So I asked some of the regulars here what a good battle would be for the final week. A couple people came up with a suggestion which I think would fit in perfectly. This week's duel and the final duel of the week is.....

    18544541573_59a4033262_k-1-638x359.jpg
    The SRT Tomahawk X Vision Gran Turismo

    vs

    car_1239_35564_55317fc0934b6.jpg
    The Red Bull X2014 Fan Car!!!


    Wait a minute Cowboy, you're putting up two of the fastest cars in GT6 for battle? Have you gone bloody mad? Well yes I have actually, because the trial is at the Nürburgring Nordshliefe :mischievous:

    Good luck :tup:
     
  18. Ryk

    Ryk

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    "Fan car... well that sucks." - Anderstorp, Sweden 1978.
     
  19. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

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    Aw, yes! Going out with a bang, I see.

    I don't even need to test them - I already know my vote. Red Bull X2014! The Tomahawk is too twitchy.
     
  20. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

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    The X2011 is faster than the X2014... just saying.. ;)
     
  21. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

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    Hmm, yes. Good duel. No need to save up this week or miss it because I have both of these cars already. I'm leaning more towards the tomahawk right now, but we'll see...
     
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  22. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

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    Location:
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    Here we are, at week 70. Potentially the very last week, and we are just now testing a VGT car along with one of the infamous Gran Turismo/Red Bull Fan Cars. I guess one could argue that the X series cars were a precursor to the Vision Gran Turismo cars. Anyway, these two cars go beyond mad hypercars. They make the Bugatti Veyron look like a Buick Century, and the McLaren F1 look like an old Rover Mini. In terms of usability however... well, I'll just cover it by car.

    Nordschleife Trial:
    Tomahawk - 4:59.512
    X2014 - 4:39.951

    Rotenboden Trial:
    Tomahawk - 1:20.425
    X2014 - 1:07.747

    SSR5 Trial:
    Tomahawk - 0:53.963
    X2014 - 0:49.460

    We have a clear winner here but I feel some extra information on these cars and the trials I put them through should have some details explained.

    Back in 2008 and 2009, when Myspace was arguably still relevant, I belonged to this group of Gran Turismo fans. It was a fairly small group, but we'd talk about GT4 and what cars we liked, what sort of races we did, and what sorts of times we'd get on certain tracks. The founder of the group was a guy in his 40s, that really liked the '62 Buick Special in the game. One of his ultimate goals was to lap the Nordschleife in under 5 minutes in GT4. Eventually he got this done in the '89 Sauber Mercedes C9, and he posted it as a video on Myspace. As Myspace is now a wasteland, that video is lost. However, while doing the Nordschleife trial, I decided to honor the memory of that feat by attempting to at least get under five minutes in both cars. Let me tell you what, that was pretty difficult to do, in much more high performance cars than the Sauber no less.

    These cars are in a class by themselves in terms of aerodynamics and power. The Tomahawk has over twice the amount of horsepower of the X2014 (which is a 1200 horsepower beast itself) and there is a 200 kilogram difference in weight, both of them are still well under 1000 kilos. In a straight line and on flat ground, these cars are highly stable.

    Introduce a very twisty narrow roadway, very full of bumps and imperfections and all of that performance is like threading a needle while riding a coked-up bull. The Tomahawk was borderline undrivable on the Nordschleife, facing the other way, plowing into walls, and spending a good amount of time on the grass. The X2014 was slower, but a little more steady. But at the same time, I still had issues. (Interestingly it was a little more understeery in the low speed corners.) The X2014 is a far cry from the X2010 that I drove in GT5 completing the 24 hours of Nurburgring and the 24 hours of LeMans back in August and September. You should not slam on the gas when you are traveling at low speeds in either of these cars, because doing so will spin the car around, because the active aerodynamics do not work unless the car is at speed. I don't drive these cars often, mostly because there are very few races you can enter them in. They would be overpowered in most every race, but I'm sure if the average person had these cars, but was in a race with a bunch of very competent drivers in LMP cars, these would lose.

    Driving these cars effectively requires relearning how to drive because of all the idosyncrasies. You cannot drive these cars like a production car, a regular racing car, or hell, even a LMP. Getting used to these cars take time. But, as you can see, the X2014 is the easier and better choice. I'm sure if I drove the Tomahawk X for loads of different races, I'd get pretty good at driving it, but in terms of being able to pick up on the unique behaviors, the X2014 is the best bet. Less than half the power of the Tomahawk, but there are loads of other examples in this thread that'll tell you than power isn't everything. (Even then, 1200 is still quite a lot.)

    X2014 is the winner.

    ________________________________________________________________________

    This has been my favorite thread on GTP and it's added loads of replayability to GT6 for me. I've loved the camaraderie and the competition, especially against @Draggon and @MrWaflz55 . We've had a good little community here, I'm glad to have been part of this from the opening weeks onward. Thank you so much @Cowboy for giving us a wonderful icebreaker for discussions on the cars in GT6 and how they stack up against one another. I wish you the best in your endeavors. I hope college goes well for you!

    See you space cowboy.
     
  23. Ryk

    Ryk

    Messages:
    3,144
    Location:
    England
    bannertomahawk.jpg Special Stage Route X_2dfg.jpg Newey X2014 Fan Car, Yesterday.​
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
  24. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    I drove both cars very hard. I ended up in the grass a lot and in the wall a lot as well, but I guess it balanced out.

    One thing I should have mentioned in my review is that mistakes in these cars are magnified because of how much ground they cover in a short amount of time. I bet a completely perfect run in either car could be 3 and a half minutes, but my reflexes and comfort with each of the cars isn't nearly at the level. Of the most recent experience I have, I've done 48 hours of driving in the X2010 in GT5, and even then, the X2014 still behaves a little differently, and the Tomahawk isn't even close on behavior.

    Lots and lots and lots and lots of practice needs to be had with each of these cars and that's just to be reasonably competent driving these cars.

    EDIT: Just checked the TT, I don't see your times. Do your test online, from what I've seen, it feels a lot different from doing the tests from your garage.
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016
    Draggon likes this.
  25. Marc30599

    Marc30599

    Messages:
    582
    I'm going miss this thread although I didn't contribute as much as I would've liked since giving my PS3 to my brother when I left for college.... Would've loved to try this duel out... But tbh it's obvious x2014 fan car is better for driving based on its handling while the Tomahawk is more so a Special Stage Route X kind of car
     
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  26. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,046
    Well there's some of my problem. I have less than a few hours in the X 2014 and maybe a half hour or so in the SRT. I was practicing offline because 1: I didn't want to be horribly embarrassed if someone was to join my room, and 2: my frustration level was such that 2 laps with the SRT was all I could stand without a break. I'll give 'em a go online.
     
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  27. ThrasherDBS

    ThrasherDBS

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    At the present moment in time, I am the only one who has posted times in the TT. For Cowboy's last ride as our fearless leader, we should have a massive turnout I think so far as trials go. Wouldn't you agree @Draggon @Ryk @MrWaflz55 @Rotorist @Vic Reign93 @MidFieldMaven @Nismonath5 @pretend racer ?

    Don't let me win this one because of lack of entrants.

    If money is the issue, you can rack up loads of money on the "Quick Matches", so long as you can stand the loads of cheating drivers. If you don't want to put up with that, but you've got a car that reaches very high speeds, you can grind the SSRX race of the "Like The Wind" event.

    Just a few suggestions.
     
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2016
  28. Draggon

    Draggon

    Messages:
    2,046
    I've been practicing in the fan car. I think I'm about able to post a not-embarrasing time. ;)
     
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  29. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Messages:
    5,124
    Location:
    Canada
    I don't even know if I'll be able to finish a single lap, much less half of one. :boggled:
    I really hate driving these super fast unrealistic cars, way too hard to control and I spin out all the time.
     
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  30. pretend racer

    pretend racer

    Messages:
    328
    I'll try and make some time to get this duel in, thanks for the heads up.
    Between my 2 gt6 online race series, and AC and project cars and now rockband4 rivals on the PS4 I haven't had any extra time to duel lately.... I know first world problems eh?
     
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