GT6 Duel of the Week #70: The Grand Finale (well, not really)

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo 6' started by CowboyAce57, Jun 22, 2015.

  1. Draggon


    So even though the TT isn't over, here's my quick review. The Mazda does what it should. It's quick, gears are spaced well, it turns and stops without complaint, and is generally fun to drive. It does have a bit of understeer as can be expected, and will light up the tires on corner exit if you mash the throttle too early. Top speed on a downhill CM track was a whopping 167mph.

    The Spyder was a surprise. It does everything well again, but has better brakes, better turn in, better rotation, and is not as prone to lighting up the tires, but does suffer from oversteer as can be expected from a MR layout. I originally thought "not that MR-2!" :crazy: I was wrong, I thoroughly enjoyed it!

    OK, so the Barchetta.....well, its Italian. But its not an attractive Italian, nor does it have the quirky style the Fiat Coupe has. I think it looks like a butter dish turned upside down. It's not fast. It doesn't handle well. It doesn't brake well. It doesn't sound good. There are plenty of FF cars that do things well. This isn't one of them. Sad, it actually was a pretty decent car a few iterations of Gran Turismo ago. But I have this sick attraction to it. Like a moth to a candle. I keep buying the thing, expecting that THIS time it's going to be this point I rate it #2 on the list. More about this later.

    So, as can be expected, my vote overwhelmingly goes to the Toyota MR2 Spyder!

    Hmmm I guess that wasn't quick after all. Must be too much coffee.

    Hey @Nismonath5 you had better join us this week or you will be reported to the FIA for rules infraction and general overall fibbing and stuff.
    Rotorist, MightyL, Ryk and 3 others like this.
  2. MidFieldMaven


    United States
    Here are all 4 of my fastest Mid-Field lap vids from fastest to slowest including the TF160:

    Toyota MR2 Spyder '99
    138 hp / 6,500 rpm
    126 ft-lb / 4,500 rpm
    970 kg (2,138 lbs)
    376 pp

    MG TF160 '03
    158 hp / 7,000 rpm
    128 ft-lb / 4,500 rpm
    1,150 kg (2,535 lbs)
    377 pp

    MR2 is 1.5 seconds quicker overall. Torque is almost identical, but the Toyota is down by 20 hp. The MG is a porker in comparison, with 400 lbs more to haul around. I'll take the cheaper, more reliable Toyota any day.
  3. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    I'll vote for the Mazda. No need to ask why - I have a Mazda. Brand preferences for the win! :lol:
  4. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    OK guys, it's the first month of school and I'm extremely busy. I'm trying to get as much of the workload as possible off my chest before next week so I can start posting again.
    Ryk likes this.
  5. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    United States
    Might as well get the worst one out of the way, the Fiat. The Barchetta was featured in the Forgotten Cars Thread sometime last year, and after driving it then, I could obviously see why it as left for dead. The understeer is horrendous from the front wheel drive, which is quite a disadvantage in this duel. This car also has the most unique looks of the three, looking somewhat like a sea Stingray in the front. Not much else can be said here, except that thee are far better choices of cars in this class.

    Then we come to the opposite of the Fiat, the MR2. The Spyder has a mid mounted engine and a rear wheel drive drivetrain, and it has more of an oversteer attitude instead of the latter. It's a fun car to play with in corners, either wanting to kick the tail out a bit or just glide through.

    The MX, erm, I mean Eunos, wait, I mean Roadster is a fun one as well. Main difference is stability, since this car has a lot if it. I was a bit surprised on how nice it was to drive, almost acting like a baby RX7. So yes, this car gets my vote.

    All three cars tested at Eiger Short Track, no aids except ABS 1, CS tires:

    Roadster: 1:21.893
    MR2: 1:21.207
    Barchetta: 1:25.810

    And the votes:

    Roadster: 3
    MR2: 6
    Barchetta: 0 (RIP)

    And the winner is.....

    The '99 MR2 Spyder!!!

    Congrats to @ThrasherDBS for setting a winning time of 1:21.492 in the Roadster, @Cowboy for getting 1:21.207 in the Spyder, and @Draggon for getting 1:25.226 in the Barchetta!​
  6. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    United States
    Congratulations @ThrasherDBS! What are we thrashing about this week?

    The 2014 BMW M4 Coupe


    The 1988 Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary!!!

    This week's trial will be at Road America, created by @Patrick8308. Let the battle begin!​
  7. Ryk


    M4 has to be the best looking motorway in England and Wales... 1669px-Second_Severn_Crossing_pano_2_s.jpg
    The M4 as it crosses over the River Severn, yesterday.
    This should be a fun match.
    Torino F.C. vs. Bayern Munich
  8. Neddo


    Countach is way way way way better
  9. Death2508


    United States
    M4 will get stomped.
  10. ThrasherDBS


    United States
    My favorite moniker I've ever heard for the Countach is "the stealth fighter of sports cars". Sounds a little over the top, but looking at the thing, you definitely can't argue with the description. Definitely a head-turner from the mid-70s on, but especially so in the 80s, when its performance and its styling got more aggressive. Much like the Ferrari F40, the Testarossa, and the Porsche 959, this is a quintessential 80s supercar.

    Meanwhile, with the M4, it's yet another car to wear the M badge. On launch, it was a big deal in GT6 because people got to drive it in game before the actual car came out.

    Aww come on, guys. You don't know tha-...

    Okay, so the Countach still won, but the M4 did win one of my trials on the grounds that its heavy and cumbersome nature actually kept it stable on the uphill segments! It plowed into walls because the brakes struggled to slow this thing under its momentum, but it kept stable on the uphill. That's about the only praise I can say for the M4. Both cars are very close to the same weight, but the difference is where most of it rests. The Countach is fun because the engine sits in the middle, whereas the M4 made the rear a little too light and the front a fair bit too heavy.

    The Countach is the winner.
    Draggon, MidFieldMaven, Neddo and 4 others like this.
  11. Patrick8308


    Thanks for picking my version of Road America as your trial track of the week - really much apreciated! :cheers:

    Sadly I don't have time to play GT6 at the moment else I'd jump in for some test runs as well.

    Both cars are absolutely marvelous. I remember the great and surprisingly easy handling of the Countach very well. The M 4 has great power and the oversteer is controlable in a very precise way.
    Rotorist and Cowboy like this.
  12. Ryk


    Elkhart Lake? On the Frozen Tundra of Wisconsin... Just took me some time to get it downloaded - (Ryk's Interweb Skillset = extremely poor)

    "Erfolgreich" - New German word of the day!

    --- Tried the track out... Perfect flow.
    Just needs a few more Beer cans outside of Canada Corner!
    Rotorist, Cowboy and Patrick8308 like this.
  13. Rotorist


    Lets throw some wood on the fire here guys!

    Laptimes on Road America (btw, a great real life track and an awesome creation using the GT6 editor as well :cheers:@Patrick8308)

    M4: 2:25.187
    Countach 25th Anniversary: 2:26.342

    So, thre M4 won mostly due to its close ratio gearbox (compared to the Countach's one) and its excellent low to mid-range torque helping to balance the car better with the accelerator imho. This Countach is the worst of the 2 existing in GT games after all, as the '74 is the original, nimble, light and most effective when pushed hard.

    My vote goes to M4 but I always was a huge fan of Countach's styling as a kid.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2016
  14. Nismonath5

    Nismonath5 Premium

    New Zealand
    German technology vs Italian masterpiece!!! Syracuse - Night.jpg

    Here I go, my first proper DOTW review! I hope to be able to post more often, this looks like a well-established community, great job @Cowboy! Let's begin...

    Part One: MMMM
    Geddit? M4...:lol:


    *Crickets chirp*


    I've never actually owned the M4 before. BMWs don't really excite me, most of them sound pretty bad in the game and they're just all-round underwhelming. But I gave the M4 a chance, and for this review I went to Grand Valley East. I would have used Road America but as I started my first Time trial, the lightning rolled in... :scared:

    Anyways, the M4!
    Grand Valley East_3.jpg
    All loaded up with a bunch of racing goodies like twin turbos, paddle shift and carbon fibre, the M4 feels nice and responsive, though a touch on the heavy side. I couldn't feel oversteer nor understeer, and it never really threatened me, as such, y'know? It has great off the line pickup, and the turbos can be felt throughout most of the rev range. I never needed to use 6th or 7th gear, though 7th is probably just a cruising gear anyway.

    It has a good variety of factory paints avaliable and if you want, there's the "Performance Edition", which basically just adds a safety car livery (roof lights sold seperately). Grand Valley East_4.jpg
    Time at Grand Valley East: 1:09.834

    Part Two: Cuckoo Countach Grand Valley East_1.jpg

    The Countach comes from a time where cars were cars. No fancy tech, assists or paddles here! H-pattern gearboxes, raspy V12s and rear wheel drive drivetrains were the kings of the supercar world, and the driver had to work hard behind the wheel if they wanted the top spot on the leaderboard!

    Gotta say, after driving a late-model sports car, you realise just how far we've come in handling, power and general car construction! The speeds I had taken corners in the M4 with ease were way too fast for the Countach, meaning this pin-up car of a generation was trying to kill me at every corner, with wallow-y handling, spongy suspension and a wide 5 speed gearbox, if you unnecessarily lost any speed, you'd suffer greatly!

    Grand Valley East.jpg

    It took a while to adjust to the older style, but once I was in the groove I finally felt compelled to take some risks. I actually felt like I was going faster than the M4, but when I looked at the lap times, I realised that wasn't true. It definately feels like you're more involved with the car, and more care must be taken when wrestling it around a corner

    Time at Grand Valley East: 1:10.406

    My pick for this week's winner is the M4! It's cheaper, and even in standard trim doesn't feel like it's trying to kill me every time I ask it to go around a corner!
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2016
  15. Ryk


    m4vscountach banner.jpg

    In the Frozen Black Metallic Corner -
    From Munich Bavaria in Southern Germany -
    The BMW M4 Coupé from 2014

    In the Burgundy Corner
    From Sant'Agata Bolognese in Emilia-Romagna, Northern Italy.
    The Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary Edition from 1988​



    Bayerische Motoren Werke M4 Coupé - Fighter - Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary '88
    2979cc Straight 6 ....Engine.......... 5167cc V12
    Twin Turbo ...........Aspiration ... All Natural Baby
    425bhp .....Powah..... 448bhp
    56.1 kgfm ...Torque... 50.1 kgfm

    4671mm ...Length... 4140mm
    1869mm ....Width.... 2000mm
    1381mm ...Height... 1070mm
    1497kg ...Weight... 1490kg
    52:48 ....Distribution.... 43:57
    510 ...Performance Points... 511
    ----------------------------Florian Nissi .......Coach ... Horacio Pagani (Wonder what happened to him?)

    *** Round 1 *** Price ***

    Countach - 182,000 Kazula
    BMW M4 - 120,000 Kazula

    The Munich Mauler is cheap, but I've never bought a Lamborghini because it was the cheaper option!

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 8 <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10

    *** Round 2 *** Weight ***

    Countach - 1490kg
    BMW M4 - 1497kg

    A Huge weight advatage for the Italian... 7kg... just over 15 pounds... Ah it's peanuts.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 10(18) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 9(19)

    *** Round 3 *** Max Headroom ***

    Getting a car parking space can be tough, so having a low car is useful so you can slide under those pesky barriers.

    Countach - 1070mm
    BMW M4 - 1381mm

    Side by side these cars are night and day - The Beemer looks normal, average, the Countach looks sleek.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 10(28) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 8(27)

    *** Round 4 *** Apricot Hill Raceway - Fastest Lap ***

    Countach - 1m30.6
    BMW M4 - 1m30.0

    Slight speed advantage over the lap for the German twin turbo car. But both were able to compete.

    Countach 25th Anniversary -9(37) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10(37)

    *** Round 5 *** Apricot Hill Raceway - 5 Lap Seasonal ***

    Countach - 8m06.8
    BMW M4 - 8m05.4
    And after 5 laps the M4 has the edge - Both cars have gearboxes which didn't gel with me. But Both had the meat to get the win, 912,000 Kazulas - Both great cars!

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 9(46) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10(47)

    *** Round 6 *** Powah!***

    Countach - 448bhp
    BMW M4 - 425bhp

    Now - By the stats, the Lambo is better, but sneak at the power curve and that Beemer has a fat old Power curve that pours out maximum power all along the rev range. The Countach has a peaky power curve that only gives you maximum power in a shorter rev range.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 10(56) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 9(56)

    *** Round 7 *** Headlamp Presence ***

    Countach - Pop Up Headlamps -
    BMW M4 - Much better than the Bangle era Dame Edna Lamps - but... they don't pop up!
    dame edna2.jpg
    BMW M5 Headlamps, Yesterday

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 12(68) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 8(64)

    *** Round 8 *** Engine Note ***

    Countach - Flat sounding almost lifeless V12 - dissapointing.
    BMW M4 - Turbo Straight Six... sounds like it is amplified and the sound pumped into the cabin somehow... Maybe a cheat but it did sound better to me.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 9(77) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10(74)

    *** Round 9 *** Top Speed at Historic Route X ***

    Countach - 190mph - Rev Limited in 5th
    BMW M4 - 205 mph - (Cheat! - In real life it is limited to 155mph!)

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 9 (86)<> BMW M4 Coupé- 10(84)

    *** Round 10 *** Beep Beep ***

    Countach - Cool as Pistachio Ice Cream. Best horn in GT6.
    BMW M4 - Powerful as a Bavarian Oompah band. Thigh Slapping Parp!

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 10 (96) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 9 (93)

    *** Round 11 *** Sun kissed Elkhart Lake ***

    BMW M4 - 2m25.271 (Afternoon)
    Countach - 2m26.581 (Slightly later on, the same Afternoon)
    All ABS=0, no corner cutting, driving ruthlessly slow! (Listening to Bill Burr and Michael Rappaport ramble about Boston vs New York Sports teams!)
    The cars are very even in a straight line. In the corners the Lambo requires you to really wrestle the car, The rearward weight and the wide rear tyres can make the fronts lose grip and wash out. The Beemer was easier and more predictable in the corners.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 9 (105) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10 (103)

    *** Round 12 *** Subtle Branding ***

    Countach - Amazingly this car doesn't even have a Countach badge on it - Just 6 bull logos on the exterior (Wheel hubs, and front and rear of the car - and a Lamborghini badge behind the engine cover. Inside... probably a few more Two on the Dials... maybe the gearstick... that lovely H pattern gearstick.
    BMW M4 - ... How many M badges on the car? ... 12 (TWELVE) and that is just on the outside (Front Kidney, Rear Boot lid, 4 Wheels, 4 Brake Callipers, 2 Side vents...) Inside... two more on the seats ... (Which light up when you open the door.) You can't buy class! - Another M logo on the bottom of the circular directional change instrument (steering wheel), 1 on the "gear stick" - 1 under speedometer - 1 info console screen - If you add on the BMW branding... gah. I gave up after I saw the BMW letters on the headlamps...
    Am I implying a that the car with scissors doors is actually more subtle? Yes, yes I am!

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 10 (115) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 7 (110)

    *** Round 13 *** Improvement on the previous model? ***

    The Countach was a nice looker but a poor engineering execution that was bodged over the years, and it has bloated up and had all kinds of things to cool the engine down. Big Goofy Rear Wing, It is a car that scream "1980's" - As Jeremy Clarkson said - "A Countach is like an Elephant, Nice to look at, but you wouldn't want to own one."

    The M4 - If you compare it to the previous M3/M5 cars... the looks are much nicer due to the toned down Dame Edna head lamps, it is nice, side vents, power bulge.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 6(121) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10 (120)

    *** Round 14 *** Fun to drive? ***

    The Countach is a pup. It doesn't brake consistently and it is very heavy, the gears feel just a a bit clunky. And in Real life I would never enjoy fitting inside. You are very forward in the car, so your feet are pushed to the centreline of the car - my legs would be all wonky and getting bashed by the steering wheel in every turn, and my back, curled up like Richard the Third - always a sexy look!
    The M4 - This is great fun to chuck about. It is just as bulky as the Lambo but being taller it feels more consistent and the flappy paddle gearshift and relentless surge of powah from the Engine makes the car. For a front engined car it was an enjoyable car to thrash about.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 8(129) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 10 (130)

    *** Round 15 *** Fun to look at? ***

    The Countach is an icon and looks so good, they shoudl put it on a poster (They did? who knew?) - It has Gandini and Pagani digging deep into the Toybox and pulling out a great looking clown car even a Bozo like me can appriciate.

    The M4 - So much better looking that the M5, but it can't compete with the Lambo. It isn't bad but it isn't a car that has that instant wow factor.

    So which to choose? The Beemer wins in so many areas but the Lambo is not just a Lambo it is the iconic Lambo - it has a majesty, a presence than can transfix the weak willed when they look at it.

    Countach 25th Anniversary - 12(141) <> BMW M4 Coupé- 9 (139)


    The Countach may be a terrible car, it is 26 years older than the brand new M4, and this Countach is fat and lumpy after looking so sleek back in Geneva in 1971 - yet it still looks futuristic... it captures a timeless childish energy that is like lightning in a bottle - (Hard to replicate)

    Ryk is an idiot so he picks the Comedy Clown Car : Lamborghini Countach.
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  16. MidFieldMaven


    United States
    I just got done re-testing the Countach and got within a tenth of a second of my previous best lap time set in July of last year. I have always loved the design of this car in particular. Classic supercar in every sense. Personally, I prefer the Lambo even over the more powerful, lighter F40. Don't ask me why. I have no answer. Cars like this will make you earn your keep. If you want a fast lap, you're going to have to learn advanced techniques. But once you do, there is nothing more rewarding.

    One thing I noticed immediately while re-testing the M4 is how nothing can phase you after fighting with an MR car for fast lap times. FR is cake. I got bored with it, truthfully. There is excitement sure, more than say, a Nissan GT-R, but not enough for me. Around town, the turbo power is excellent. At 2,000 rpm, the BMW makes over 400 ft-lbs of torque and stays that way up until peak horsepower is reached at 5,700 rpm. Redline is at 8,000 rpm but torque plummets quickly at 5,500 rpm so the sweet spot to shift is 6,000-6,500 rpm. Weight is distributed 52% F and 48% R.

    Power-to-weight ratio difference is only 0.21 kg/hp in the Lambo's favor with 3.31 kg/hp.

    BMW M4 Coupé
    425 hp / 5,700 rpm
    406 ft-lb / 2,000 rpm
    1,497 kg (3,300 lbs)
    510 pp

    Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary '88
    449 hp / 7,000 rpm
    363 ft-lb / 5,000 rpm
    1,490 kg (3,285 lbs)
    511 pp

    They weigh basically the same, and the power/torque differences kind of even themselves out a bit. At Mid-Field, these two are nearly identical in my hands.

    Both cars generate speeds of over 150 mph on the front straight, with the Lambo winning the maximum speed test by 3 mph.

    If I had to choose one, it'd have to be the Countach. I would drive it maybe twice a year, but I'd enjoy those two days more than an entire year with the M4.
  17. Arp 273

    Arp 273

    The M4 is so easy to drive, it's not even fun (ny). Especially after wresteling the Countach. I've actually spend more time comparing the Lambo with and without wing then comparing it to the Beamer. The jury is still out on whether the wing helps or hinders.. at least the down force should be lowered a bit, much like on the real car.

    The M4 is a fantastic daily driver but for those extra special weekends I would choose the Lamborghini Countach 25th Anniversary. More engaging to drive, it looks like a stealth fighter and sounds like a rocket ship.. sort off.. ish.. :)

    I think it's great that we car experience several decades of car development in this game. Still enjoying it! :cheers:
  18. Rotorist


    Your last sentence gives away why GT franchise changed car games for ever.
    MidFieldMaven, Ryk and Arp 273 like this.
  19. MisterWaffles

    MisterWaffles Premium

    Not posting again this week, docks don't move themselves out of lakes and it's the start of October right now. Next week defiantly though.
  20. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    @Cowboy y'all gonna post the next duel?
    Death2508 likes this.
  21. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    United States
    Patience young man, patience.

    So the M4 is a middle child of the M lineup. It produces around 425 HP and has some nice looks to go with it. It's an ok driver as well, having a somewhat raspy exhaust. It's interesting when PD first put the car into GT that it had a black interior, bit eventually put on in at a later update. Color choice is nice, having anywhere from white to gold to yas marina blue.

    The Countach could be considered the Aventador of the '80s. It was a dream car for a lot of people, being on the posters in ma y people's bedroom walls. We've had the Countach before against the 365GTB/4 Ferrari, bit this time we have the 25th Anniversary Edition. There is a difference between the two, from the exhaust to driveability. Compared to its older brother, which had some understeer, this one plays the usual MR shenanigans with some oversteer. It's a fun car though, and it shows when you realize that you've gone 10 laps on your favorite track without realizing.

    So yea, the Countach gets my vote.

    Both cars tested at Road America, no aids except ABS 1:

    M4: 2:26.102
    Countach: 2:28.027

    And the votes:

    M4: 2
    Countach: 6

    And the winner is.....

    The '88 Countach 25th Anniversary!!!

    Congrats to @Rotorist for setting a winning lap time of 2:25.187 in the M4 and to @ThrasherDBS for getting a 2:27.361 in the Countach!
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  22. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    You're, uh...missing quite a bit, dude.
  23. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    United States
    I can't get the darn pictures to show up for some reason.
  24. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    Use the IMG tags. Unless you flubbed the links themselves...
  25. Cowboy

    Cowboy Premium

    United States
    Well since I cannot get the second half of the other post to cooperate, this week's duel is

    The 2003 Mazda Axela 23S


    The 1997 Honda Civic Type R (EK)

    And the trial is at Tsukuba.

    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    MrWaflz55, Rotorist, Arp 273 and 4 others like this.
  26. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    Your images are still screwed up...They didn't show on my end.

    Edit: Whoops. Internet did weird thingy on my end. All good!
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  27. Rotorist



    Hey Cowboy , I think that Countach's best time on Road America track is also mine. Sorry ThrasherDBS ;).

    I like the duel of this week also. Mazda has a great balance for FF and Civic is very light and good for lapping tracks with its VTec motor having great push up to 8000 rpm. Balance and torqe vs lightness and top-end power. Let's see who's gonna get that one.

    UPDATE: Got into the event to test the 2 cars of the new duel, tested Mazda but Honda cannot be tested as the lower limit of weight is 10 kgs below the Civic's stock weight. Something can be done about that I guess, eh Cowboy ? :cheers:
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
    MidFieldMaven likes this.
  28. Draggon


    I'm hoping I can be competitive this week. I've been way off my game since I participated in a CRZ TC series a few months ago. Seems like I used up all my talent on that one. I love both cars, so it's going to be interesting seeing which is best without the aid of tuning.
  29. Obelisk

    Obelisk Premium

    I lost everything...A half hour's worth of review work, GONE!

    My scores up until the last test was:

    Mazda (6) - (6) Honda

    Real World:
    Price: Mazda
    Practicality: Mazda
    Performance: Honda
    Power: Honda

    Price: Mazda
    Power: Honda
    P2P run: Honda
    Tsukuba: Honda
    400M: Mazda
    1000M: Mazda
    Top Speed: Honda

    The final test is a lap around the Nürburgring. The Mazda was at a 9:02.
    The Honda? 9:01.6.

    My vote goes to the Honda...


    The Mazda Axela, despite having 500+ pounds against the Civic and being some 20 HP weaker, was consistently within a half-second of the Civic. On top of that, the Civic lap at the Nurburgring was perfect, the Axela lap was messy.

    Do NOT underestimate the Axela in this.
  30. MightyL


    Nice duo! HAD TO take them for a spin on the Nordschleife!

    First I took for a drive was the MAZDA. Didn't expect much of it as i'm usually not a huge fan of FF drive. But boy on the Nordschleife that car is A-MA-ZING. Every corner I got the same thrill and excitement about how well the Mazda seems to tackle them. It s like it anticipates what's coming and decides to help you a little bit. How it turns in under braking, how you can position it, how you can feel the rear suspension working while mid corner. my god! it all translates so well. Not predictable in the way that every corner goes better than what you would expect. Love the feeling of that long suspension softness and weight translation...

    The HONDA is of course another league. The chassis is so much ahead of its time. Suspensionwise, it almost handles like current day sports cars. Its sharp and consistent. Very predictable. And so efficient in how it makes use of everything the small engine has to offer. On the Nordschleife in alot of corners I don't like the 2nd to 3rd gear ratio. Shifting back to 2nd not possible and staying in 3rd just a little low in the revs...

    Nordschleife (CS tires, No aids, ABS 0):

    Mazda: 8'51'441
    Honda: 8'48'762

    the Civic is quite alot faster and although both cars are FF there's just so much difference in how they drive. thank you PD for having the possibility to compare these two!

    My vote goes to the Mazda for the surprise and fun I had.