GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion

  • Thread starter gti_sdn
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Actually, my comment was not a knock or response on your and the community's effort with refining the tactile response to what the game produces, but what PD probably giving more attentions to providing proper or more telemetry data for certain cars than other. I imagine the drive and feel of most low power cars may share similar telemetry models vs say the various Grp 3 and Grp 4 track cars could have different individualized model. This is all conjecture though. Though I can see how my comment can be taken another way.

I agree with your comments here and throughout the thread, though I believe tactile sensation/response is also subjective even if someone has the same exact setup. There are those who are more sensitive to feedback and those who feel it may not be enough. There are those who probably never driven on the track or only a few times but still can't fully understand how it should really feel and how to use that sensation properly.

I've re-read this entire thread a few times to get a better under how to even set things up and how to tune and definitely appreciate your detailed technical analysis and everyone's input. I've already ordered an external sound car and a few tactile transducers and excited to see what kind of setup works best for me. Hopefully I can get as close to what I normally experience on my track days with my M3.
Gents, I have added you both to the group, but you will see for yourself how the lack of feedback and general interest dropped once people got effect sensations they liked enough. It was casual/relaxed but often in releasing effects and asking for feedback, most just ignored having much or any discussion. Some did and I always appreciated them for that.

People who own seats that are not ideal or rig builds that are not ideal, apparently seem to forget/ignore that whatever they do feel "could be much better" if they only went about things in ways that are tried and tested.

For some, it is maybe that they don't want to spend the money or don't have the money and that's fine. Yet some will tell people how good their immersion is with tactile and the reality is, what they are experiencing/enjoying is quite a bit off what the potential is. I get it, tactile brings a new element of life/interaction into a sim but some seem happy to just leave it at whatever level they have things, while others get the bug of wanting to then take things to a higher level.

What has been proved many times is how some of the approaches I shared can/will bring excellent quality of immersion in tactile. Making effects in itself is something we also just get better at doing over time and with trial/error as well as more understanding of how frequencies and audio/music operate. Even in the thread/group created based don GT7, I was able to share effects that offered variations in feel or improved within a very short period of time or effort. Things could have continued to improve as GT7 needed some changes to past effects work for ACC (PC Version), but I got to the point, I won't continue to commit myself to things when others won't commit to testing/feedback, or with each release of new effects, the interaction, or appreciation reduces or you then get people trying to use effects incorrectly and often on far from ideal installations.


REAL TRACK Vs SIM
Some advice, too many people look at the tactile integration based on the perception of what happens with a real car or track.
Our goal is immersion, yes? Not necessarily trying to replicate things in some manner from real-world scenarios, that we can't really replicate. I see some people going as far as trying to determine things like g-forces and taking readings from individual cars on a track to then try to implement that into effects creation in Simhub.

Here's my perspective on this for what it is worth....

This gives you data, from a real-world scenario, okay yes...
However, that data could be very different from a different car, or the same car with different setups, different tires, and different drivers at the wheel. So are you building a simulator to represent/imitate a single car and still with the limitations today's sims have in comparison to what (a specific or multiple/different) Sims version of that car is like to the actual real car? How much do we assume the physics data is accurate to the real-world counterpart?

So what benefit readings from a real track car scenario bring is something I am not that confident can be representative to playing a sim based on how/whatever that sims physics engine works, and how then that can differ based on its own operational parameters based on various scenarios within the sim. Again, aspects like different setups, different tires but also now much more, aspects that affect the physics operation of the car driven, weather or track conditions, and then these applied to dozens or hundreds of cars that may generate differences in their data values for the various g-forces or in speed/acceleration/grip etc. All those factors may have a bearing on the telemetry values the sim generates which in turn will generate different data values for Simhub to use.

Likely, yes we could find groups of cars that perform similarly, or we could determine how suspension/tires may have an effect within Simhubs generated output based on the effects active on each channel. Those are certain things I could have compared with my hardware with the same car say over 3 laps. I could then see a trace of all the frequencies generated for the laps mounted. I can then apply that to see one effect or any combination of effects based on how I routed effects into my audio hardware.

I would recommend people focus more on what/how a SIM generates its telemetry for different cars/scenarios and not so much on what happens on track. Ultimately we are limited to what the sim physics offers and then look at creative ways to develop effects that operate to suit the activity they have but can then be developed to work better on multichannel tactile configurations. Another aspect is then how we give specific effects their own unique character or feel that does not feel out of place, that adds to the immersion but also can then combine in its operation to work alongside other effects. How we go about doing that in a good way is by using hardware that can operate over a wider frequency range, but then is applied to different body regions to offer us more ways to alter the felt character it generates. Going beyond the operational limitations of a single unit or make/model of unit to applying specific units for improved performance are all things that have been tested and bring improvements.

Another aspect is going beyond the norm regards installations and isolation of the used tactile hardware. This is something I have been working on for quite a while but not yet shared which my own build when it is showcased will highlight. It applies an approach that nobody or any rig I have seen to date has tried to do and I think I can say with confidence that nothing comes close to, from a tactile immersion perspective. It will be unique...

It has required me to dismantle much of my own previous work with my own rig build and to rebuild it, very time-consuming and costly but is currently happening. I won't know how well it fully works until it is made/tested but in the coming months, it will be shared in a thread somewhere, when the time is right.
 
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I'm brand new to haptics, but installed 2 Dayton Audio BST-2's on my Playseat Trophy yesterday in a front/rear setup. Fastening the front transducer under the pedal board was very straightforward only requiring drilling a couple new holes in the pedal tray. The Playseat Trophy seat is just padded fabric that fastens around the frame with velcro. It's comfortable and sturdy in use, but there is no rigid housing to the seat. I fastened the transducer to an old plastic cutting board with sheetmetal screws, then slid the board/transducer assembly between the seat bottom and the big velcro strap that holds the seat fabric on the frame. I used some 3M Dual Lock tape to keep the board/transducer assembly to the seat bottom, and added another velcro strap wrapped around the transducer and fastened to the seat as additional insurance to keep it in place.

Everything worked great as soon as I plugged it in. I spent maybe 30 minutes roughly dialing in effects settings so I could drive and get a feel for how this was all going to work. I'm super happy with the setup, but I'm sure I'll be spending a lot more time tuning effects. Finding this thread should be an awesome resource for doing that.

Side note - To keep my setup clean, I mounted the DD wheel power supply and the Nobsound power amp under the pedal tray, which also has the front transducer. The rig is starting to get a little heavy with a DD wheel, power supply, power amp and 2 transducers, but it's still manageable and the added gear isn't visible. I've got three cables barely hanging off the front of the rig - Power amp USB, Power amp power supply ext cable, and USB for the wheel. My TV stand has the mains cable for the wheel power supply, USB ext for the power amp, and power amp power supply connection.


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Can anyone share some all inclusive shakers profile for GT7?

I'm going to receive my 2x BST-1 speakers for front to back this week and would hope to hop right in.

Thank you!
 
Can anyone share some all inclusive shakers profile for GT7?

I'm going to receive my 2x BST-1 speakers for front to back this week and would hope to hop right in.

Thank you!
Here's what I'm running...

Engine Vibration: Pitch Offset -10, Load Sensitivity 45-180 Hz, vol 20%
Gear Shift: Pulse Duration 75 ms, Frequency 38 Hz, High Priority, vol 43%
Simulated Road Texture: Effect Low Force 5 kmh, Effect High Force kmh, simulated road grain 50%, Frequency 54 Hz, vol 10%
Road Impacts: stock, Frequency 42 Hz, High Priority, vol 88%

Even after watching several videos, reading what others are doing, and playing with the settings, I can't seem to get wheel lock and wheel slip to feel right.

Despite that, having transducers on the rig makes such a positive difference. I highly recommend it to anyone on the fence.
 
Here's what I'm running...

Engine Vibration: Pitch Offset -10, Load Sensitivity 45-180 Hz, vol 20%
Gear Shift: Pulse Duration 75 ms, Frequency 38 Hz, High Priority, vol 43%
Simulated Road Texture: Effect Low Force 5 kmh, Effect High Force kmh, simulated road grain 50%, Frequency 54 Hz, vol 10%
Road Impacts: stock, Frequency 42 Hz, High Priority, vol 88%

Even after watching several videos, reading what others are doing, and playing with the settings, I can't seem to get wheel lock and wheel slip to feel right.

Despite that, having transducers on the rig makes such a positive difference. I highly recommend it to anyone on the fence.
In GT7 I don’t think wheel lock and wheel slip is correct. In my opinion anyway. Wheel slip feels opposite to me or maybe I just don’t want feedback while I drive. On the gas at any time, rumbling, let off or slide and you got nothing. I’d prefer it to be the other way as to not mask other effects… nothing, then rumble when it’s slipping like the tires are hopping or something to that effect.

Sheel lock for me just rumbled the second I lightly touched the brake, same amount whether I’m resting my foot on it or all the way down. What I did was limit it to like 97 percent braking so it only rumbles when I’m almost to the bottom. I just use the rumbling to let me know how far down I’m pushing the brake pedal or how much I’m braking. All cars are different though, some I find I can’t feel the rumble or I’m sliding and other cars I have to just brake full and feel the rumble or my lap times suffer.

I also recommend feedback of any kind on a rig, two people have tried my setup out and both said they feel like they can feel the car more and enjoyed the experience. Even just shifting and getting a bit of a thump with each shift or feeling the car rev out.
 
Heads up for all as I didn’t know this. Make sure you export not only your effect settings profile, but each amps control profile!

I booted up last night. No feedback. Found out my amps under Control tab in SimHub never turned on. I hit the toggle on each amp. There we go. Whoa this feels completely different. It defaulted to four corners on every amp, I had each on custom previously all tweaked to perfection… well, I lost everything. Lol

I realized you can save each amps profile. Blessing in disguise I went thru and set it all up again and it feels better. But I made sure to export the settings after doing so.

I find it so weird you have to export (aka save) each thing individually. Export effects settings. Even if you make a small adjustment, if you don’t export and SimHub glitches out on you, your adjustment is gone. This happened to me first setting it up. So I made sure to export profile settings. Only this time I lost Control settings. Unfortunately I had no idea you could save those, or their wording, export.
 
To those that have both the Logitech G Pro Wheel and these tactile transducers via Simhub, how much does the Logitech TrueForce add to the overall experience?

The reason I'm asking is, like some of those here on the forum, there's concern about Logitech support for the ecosystem. For myself, if I can setup a nice tactile setup and TrueForce supplements but doesn't add too greatly to the overall experience, I may return my set and go Fanatec, primarily for the ecosystem AND it has a really nice H shifter. Adding a quality H Shifter adds so much to the driving experience for me. My old setup was the T300RS w/ Th8A shifter.

With that said, if the tactile transducers can't produce the same tactile experience as TrueForce at the wheel, then it makes the decision harder.

I THINK Fanatec has just made the Logitech v. Fanatec decision easy for you. I was in the same boat, but now that Fanatec has announced their response to TrueForce via the new Clubsport DD/DD+ and “FullForce”, I’m thinkin’ Fanatec all they way. Logitech waited too long to expand the ecosystem…
 
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gek
I THINK Fanatec has just made the Logitech v. Fanatec decision easy for you. I was in the same boat, but now that Fanatec has announced their response to TrueForce via the new Clubsport DD/DD+ and “FullForce”, I’m thinkin’ Fanatec all they way. Logitech waited too long to expand the ecosystem…
Yes it has. Luckily I am still in the return period so the Logitech is going back. That said, I tried playing the game with TrueForce OFF and at the capped NM. It provided enough vibration /feedback via the FFB that I didn't feel like I was missing out too much in terms of tactile feedback.
 
I thought you guys might dig this. It might give you some ideas for you own rig.

If this is your video, good cable management. I agree with you, even just slapping on a puck only under the pedals is one step closer to more fun. At the very least I think if somebody can, they should put one Nader the seat and under the pedals. Activate gear shift and maybe road vibration and bumps and enjoy racing even more.

im so happy I got tactile feedback now. I really wish SimHub made some generic setting for call of duty so I could utilize them with more than one game.
 
But with wheel lock you won’t feel anything if running ABS since they don’t lock. Or did they change it?
I think they do lock with abs on. Some cars like an E type Jaguar seem to activate ,y wheel slip settings quite early other cars it just doesn’t.
 
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I think they do lock with abs on. Some cars like an E type Jaguar seem to activate ,y wheel slip settings quite early other cars it just doesn’t.
I found I could get the wheel lock effect to work perfectly with ABS off. With ABS on I got no effect.

It’s also why the DualShock doesn’t pulse with ABS active.
 
I found I could get the wheel lock effect to work perfectly with ABS off. With ABS on I got no effect.

It’s also why the DualShock doesn’t pulse with ABS active.
Weird, I’ll try it with abs off but I know for a fact I am getting vibrations if I brake hard with abs on. But again certain cars more than others.
 
Weird, I’ll try it with abs off but I know for a fact I am getting vibrations if I brake hard with abs on. But again certain cars more than others.
Interesting, I’ll revisit the effect on my setup. Maybe something has changed since I tested the effect. I’ll post back with what I find.
 
Interesting, I’ll revisit the effect on my setup. Maybe something has changed since I tested the effect. I’ll post back with what I find.
Sure sounds good, same here. I do think it’s more active when I have ABS off, as o have done but I feel it with ABS on, just not as soon. But I do have it set to only activate at like 96% pedal travel, I’ve been using it to gauge how much I’m pushing the pedal down. I’ve noticed if it’s vibrating a lot, like that MC20 Maserati goes nuts when braking, if I push just enough so it doesn’t, I slow down faster.

I really wish they’d make a generic audio setting for call of duty in SimHub. Sony really screwed everyone over by not giving us an optical port. I used to be able to run my tv sound and headset or stereo and headset. People say why would you need that, but in this case, that’s exactly why, to run your bass shakers for other games. Lol
 
But with wheel lock you won’t feel anything if running ABS since they don’t lock. Or did they change it?
I recently added ABS effect in SimHub for GT7, ACC, AC, rf2, ASM2 and even ETS2. Non of the sims support ABS effect in my case.

For me, wheel lock and wheel slip gives me good feel what the car is doing in these sims when braking in a car with or without ABS system.

I have 2 shakers under the pedal and under the seat. I setup Wheel Lock, Wheel Slip, Gear Shift for the front shaker, and for the back I left Road Impact and Simulated Road Texture. All the rest are disabled. I don't need them. The most important thing is to learn to distinguish each effect so you can do proper inputs.

I drive like that for about 3-4 months now and its enough for me to understand what the car is doing under corner entry/exit and during braking.
 
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I recently added ABS effect in SimHub for GT7, ACC, AC, rf2, ASM2 and even ETS2. Non of the sims support ABS effect in my case.

For me, wheel lock and wheel slip gives me good feel what the car is doing in these sims when braking in a car with or without ABS system.

I have 2 shakers under the pedal and under the seat. I setup Wheel Lock, Wheel Slip, Gear Shift for the front shaker, and for the back I left Road Impact and Simulated Road Texture. All the rest are disabled. I don't need them. The most important thing is to learn to distinguish each effect so you can do proper inputs.

I drive like that for about 3-4 months now and its enough for me to understand what the car is doing under corner entry/exit and during braking.
What settings are you using for lock?

I get zero effect when my ABS is on in game. I only get activity with ABS set to off. With ABS on in game I get no vibrations. GT7
 
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What settings are you using for lock?

I get zero effect when my ABS is on in game. I only get activity with ABS set to off. With ABS on in game I get no vibrations. GT7
All the effects are at their default settings. The main volume sliders is at about 60%. With time and usage, I found - less is better and that stronger doesn't mean better. it need's to be just the right amount of FFB for good and immersive experience.

The main slider is very dependent on your rig, your bass shakers, where and how they are mounted on the rig, your amplifier, your SimHub setup and your personal preference what you like.

I can share later my SimHub setup but this doesn't mean it will work good for you out of the box.

In my case, all the sims I play GT7, ACC, rf2, ASM2, ETS2 so far feels great and I use the same setup for all of them.
 
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All the effects are at their default settings. The main volume sliders is at about 60%. With time and usage, I found - less is better and that stronger doesn't mean better. it need's to be just the right amount of FFB for good and immersive experience.

The main slider is very dependent on your rig, your bass shakers, where and how they are mounted on the rig, your amplifier, your SimHub setup and your personal preference what you like.

I can share later my SimHub setup but this doesn't mean it will work good for you out of the box.

In my case, all the sims I play GT7, ACC, rf2, ASM2, ETS2 so far feels great and I use the same setup for all of them.
I know how to use Simhub and have been using it awhile.

I was looking just for the wheel lock setting. I tried again last night with and on, ZERO effect.
 
My wheel lock with ABS on when setting it all up would just start shaking the second I apply like 10-15% brake. Didn’t seem accurate to me. So I set mine up to only activate at 97% brake travel as a work around. I wonder if SimHub updated since then. I know it sees totally backwards to how it should be then. Light braking it’d shake, brake 100% and no shake. Which is incorrect in my opinion.
 
Thanks to all your hard work MR Latte! Im new to this but I have a ButtKicker Pro. I have everything working just need to tune it now. Any suggestions on how to optimize my tuning?
 
I'm using PSVR2 with Logitech G923 and Playseat Challenge seat.
I want to maintain the portability and storage of the seat while adding some tactile feedback.
I'm currently thinking of 2 X BST-1s mounted to each side of the seat and 2 X pucks, one on brake and accelerator.
Keen to hear other members experiences with this seat, placement and whether pedal tactile is worthwhile.
 
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