GT7 and SimHub Tactile discussion

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I’m using road vibration, not road rumble. Curbs and other road texture come through how I expect they would. Just weird the road joins at Tokyo don’t.
Not all surfaces/objects generate telemetry and some effects operate, via our steering/driving also which may determine the control of the car, via the (in-game physics) regards the movements of the car, which in the case of suspension would generate altering telemetry values based on the steering inputs we make and not just surface dips/bumps alone.

Bumps etc should be one of the strongest sensations we feel, but it's fair to say that a lot of people using tactile have a stronger response to "Gear Change" than they feel from suspension and on/off-road activity. Stereo bumps are quite engrossing and satisfying to the immersion when we achieve good results.

As we do not have RR I devised a set of RT effects that give a nice "surface contact/road noise" sensation representing the tyres and under the car's chassis. This effect alters tone based on speed too, but it perhaps compliments (with controlled volumes) the GT7 road/wind noise we hear.

Note:
*I've not studied yet using visual analysis tools I have if different cars/different tyre combos, have much in variations to the generated telemetry values based on settings we may apply for calibration/sensitivity of the RV effect.

I can however confirm and will help make the example you highlighted, create a nice response with RV for the Tokyo road joins.
This will help with what you feel in crash/contact scenarios also.:)


"Impacts" can be a mixed bag in their operation, will look into them on GT7 soon.

Another option is to have specific transducers using "Game Audio" but I have a solution, which I have installed and confirmed to work, that will be shared in the guide. It's an additional (reasonably priced) hardware option that lets people send or mix "Game Audio Tactile" on its own or to have it also mixed with "Simhub Telemetry Tactile" operating from 1 up to 12 channels.

All part of my own experimentation with things I wanted my own rig/build to have.
 
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Not all surfaces/objects generate telemetry and some effects operate, via our steering/driving also which may determine the control of the car, via the (in-game physics) regards the movements of the car, which in the case of suspension would generate altering telemetry values based on the steering inputs we make and not just surface dips/bumps alone.

Bumps etc should be one of the strongest sensations we feel, but it's fair to say that a lot of people using tactile have a stronger response to "Gear Change" than they feel from suspension and on/off-road activity. Stereo bumps are quite engrossing and satisfying to the immersion when we achieve good results.

As we do not have RR I devised a set of RT effects that give a nice "surface contact/road noise" sensation representing the tyres and under the car's chassis. This effect alters tone based on speed too, but it perhaps compliments (with controlled volumes) the GT7 road/wind noise we hear.

Note:
*I've not studied yet using visual analysis tools I have if different cars/different tyre combos, have much in variations to the generated telemetry values based on settings we may apply for calibration/sensitivity of the RV effect.

I can however confirm and will help make the example you highlighted, create a nice response with RV for the Tokyo road joins.
This will help with what you feel in crash/contact scenarios also.:)


"Impacts" can be a mixed bag in their operation, will look into them on GT7 soon.

Another option is to have specific transducers using "Game Audio" but I have a solution, which I have installed and confirmed to work, that will be shared in the guide. It's an additional (reasonably priced) hardware option that lets people send or mix "Game Audio Tactile" on its own or to have it also mixed with "Simhub Telemetry Tactile" operating from 1 up to 12 channels.

All part of my own experimentation with things I wanted my own rig/build to have.
Awesome thanks!
 
So I just picked up 2 adx maximus transducers, and a fosi bl20C 320w mini amp. I opted for this amp over the nobsound mini as I read several reports of it being underpowered.

I've now spent some time learning about simhubs profiles and trying to find what works and what I like best.

I initially set up:
Engine vibration
Rpms
Gear shift
Road vibration
Road impac5s

While these profiles are super immersive and add layers to the game, they don't inherently improve lap times. So I tried thinking about What information tactile feedback would be beneficial. So I started messing with:

Wheel slip
Wheel lock
Lateral g-force

These have proved much more difficult. No amount of tweaking garners usable information. I get the feeling gt7s ABS function is the issue. It seems to signal lock/ slip signals while simply slowing down.

For example trying to adjust the wheel slip function. If I drive and start swerving laft to right, I can hear tire squeal, and my wheel base will shudder indication a loss of traction. If I adjust the settings to trigger during these swerves, it then pretty much activates any time I corner or brake. I'm having similar issues with wheel lock.

I've only tried messing with lateral g-force a little, mainly because I've found very little information about the adjustments. In my mind the g force adjustments would give feedback on tires going from loaded to unloaded. A sort of g-force "trigger". For example when slowing down g-force increases on a curve right up until slip at which point it would have a large drop. Same would happen while cornering. I would like an increasing intensity/decreasing hz curve right to the trigger point.

I think I would eventually have a couple full profiles. One for immersion, rumbles and bumbles etc. And one for competition, really focused on useful information for optimum lap times
 
As requested, improvements for RV effects...
I have increased sensitivity to offer more sensation from even the smallest bumps (*with telemetry). These additional layers improve response from Tokyo road surface but also contact with the walls, other cars etc.

Also noticeable is a felt response from L/R steering affecting the car's suspension and body roll.

In these effects I share my own stylistic representation:

RACE / SPORT / COMFORT updated to have 5x layers.
This gives people more options to control the character of the effects and also the "audible tone" generated to enable users change the felt response to perhaps suit their mood/preference or swap for what can be very different types and classes of cars GT7 offers.




*Certain road elements produce very small response values, increasing these is possible but then the intensity of other values also active would be too high. I have applied a bit of a workaround for this within the response curve and with certain frequencies/effect layers.

"Audio tactile" will offer a response from the generated audio certain elements have but with this, we cannot just increase the sound/level of specific individual elements. GT7's options for its sound effects are limited.

Prior to my full effects set being released, these effects will only be shared 1-1 at the moment in the aid to get personal feedback/criticism. Just send a PM to me and offer to give some input on how they feel with your own hardware.
 
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As requested, improvements for RV effects...
I have increased sensitivity to offer more sensation from even the smallest bumps (*with telemetry). These additional layers improve response from Tokyo road surface but also contact with the walls, other cars etc.

Also noticeable is a felt response from L/R steering affecting the car's suspension and body roll.

In these effects I share my own stylistic representation:

RACE / SPORT / COMFORT updated to have 5x layers.
This gives people more options to control the character of the effects and also the "audible tone" generated to enable users change the felt response to perhaps suit their mood/preference or swap for what can be very different types and classes of cars GT7 offers.




*Certain road elements produce very small response values, increasing these is possible but then the intensity of other values also active would be too high. I have applied a bit of a workaround for this within the response curve and with certain frequencies/effect layers.

"Audio tactile" will offer a response from the generated audio certain elements have but with this, we cannot just increase the sound/level of specific individual elements. GT7's options for its sound effects are limited.

Prior to my full effects set being released, these effects will only be shared 1-1 at the moment in the aid to get personal feedback/criticism. Just send a PM to me and offer to give some input on how they feel with your own hardware.
I’m down!
 
As requested, improvements for RV effects...
I have increased sensitivity to offer more sensation from even the smallest bumps (*with telemetry). These additional layers improve response from Tokyo road surface but also contact with the walls, other cars etc.

Also noticeable is a felt response from L/R steering affecting the car's suspension and body roll.

In these effects I share my own stylistic representation:

RACE / SPORT / COMFORT updated to have 5x layers.
This gives people more options to control the character of the effects and also the "audible tone" generated to enable users change the felt response to perhaps suit their mood/preference or swap for what can be very different types and classes of cars GT7 offers.




*Certain road elements produce very small response values, increasing these is possible but then the intensity of other values also active would be too high. I have applied a bit of a workaround for this within the response curve and with certain frequencies/effect layers.

"Audio tactile" will offer a response from the generated audio certain elements have but with this, we cannot just increase the sound/level of specific individual elements. GT7's options for its sound effects are limited.

Prior to my full effects set being released, these effects will only be shared 1-1 at the moment in the aid to get personal feedback/criticism. Just send a PM to me and offer to give some input on how they feel with your own hardware.
Hi Mr Latte, thank you for your hardwork.

I have 1 Buttkicker gamer plus, thinking about buying another one for stereo. Later when I have a stronger rig, currently using NLR gt lite, I plan to buy some separate bass shakers and pucks.

I have a question, will I need a different amp to run both buttkickers together or can I combine both running each to the separate provided amps then each to 2x USB ports on computer?

I am more than willing to help out with simhub and test settings, mindful that I'm currently running mono on 1 BK. Thanks
 
Hi Mr Latte, thank you for your hardwork.

I have 1 Buttkicker gamer plus, thinking about buying another one for stereo. Later when I have a stronger rig, currently using NLR gt lite, I plan to buy some separate bass shakers and pucks.

I have a question, will I need a different amp to run both buttkickers together or can I combine both running each to the separate provided amps then each to 2x USB ports on computer?

I am more than willing to help out with simhub and test settings, mindful that I'm currently running mono on 1 BK. Thanks
you will need an amp for each.
 
Thanks, will simhub be able to combine each buttkicker when connected separately?
SimHub will be able to use the 2 Buttkickers independently. you will be able to send different effects to each one or send the same effect to both.
for example, you could do left and right road texture/effect and send to the left and right Buttkicker and then send the gearchange effect to both.
 
These are the current profiles I am running with 2 50watt transducers. I did get a second amp (the cheap one Mr latte recommended) and I have 4 Dayton pucks on the way. I've only played with these for a couple hours, so I'm totally open to suggestions.

And if anyone has tips for wheel slip and wheel lock that aren't activated instantly with the abs. Let's crack that nut!

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As requested, improvements for RV effects...
I have increased sensitivity to offer more sensation from even the smallest bumps (*with telemetry). These additional layers improve response from Tokyo road surface but also contact with the walls, other cars etc.

Also noticeable is a felt response from L/R steering affecting the car's suspension and body roll.

In these effects I share my own stylistic representation:

RACE / SPORT / COMFORT updated to have 5x layers.
This gives people more options to control the character of the effects and also the "audible tone" generated to enable users change the felt response to perhaps suit their mood/preference or swap for what can be very different types and classes of cars GT7 offers.




*Certain road elements produce very small response values, increasing these is possible but then the intensity of other values also active would be too high. I have applied a bit of a workaround for this within the response curve and with certain frequencies/effect layers.

"Audio tactile" will offer a response from the generated audio certain elements have but with this, we cannot just increase the sound/level of specific individual elements. GT7's options for its sound effects are limited.

Prior to my full effects set being released, these effects will only be shared 1-1 at the moment in the aid to get personal feedback/criticism. Just send a PM to me and offer to give some input on how they feel with your own hardware.
As requested, improvements for RV effects...
I have increased sensitivity to offer more sensation from even the smallest bumps (*with telemetry). These additional layers improve response from Tokyo road surface but also contact with the walls, other cars etc.

Also noticeable is a felt response from L/R steering affecting the car's suspension and body roll.

In these effects I share my own stylistic representation:

RACE / SPORT / COMFORT updated to have 5x layers.
This gives people more options to control the character of the effects and also the "audible tone" generated to enable users change the felt response to perhaps suit their mood/preference or swap for what can be very different types and classes of cars GT7 offers.




*Certain road elements produce very small response values, increasing these is possible but then the intensity of other values also active would be too high. I have applied a bit of a workaround for this within the response curve and with certain frequencies/effect layers.

"Audio tactile" will offer a response from the generated audio certain elements have but with this, we cannot just increase the sound/level of specific individual elements. GT7's options for its sound effects are limited.

Prior to my full effects set being released, these effects will only be shared 1-1 at the moment in the aid to get personal feedback/criticism. Just send a PM to me and offer to give some input on how they feel with your own hardware.
Hello @Mr Latte, you are awesome, I will be able to send you feedback this weekend if you can share your file with me. Cheers!
 
Apologies, busy couple of days working late and did not get much time to respond...
Wanted to thank several of you for showing an interest in helping to configure and test these effects.
Regardless of how new you are to tactile, feedback can help, building nice effects is something I think I have enough experience with, the harder part (for me) is creating effects that users with different hardware/installations can get an enjoyable immersion from.

I had a potential idea I wanted to try with Simhub settings before sending these newest RV effect files.
Will spend a couple of hours tonight seeing what I can come up with to try to boost these low responses with elements like the joins in the tarmac for Tokyo.

Expect the files by sat/sun
 
Apologies, busy couple of days working late and did not get much time to respond...
Wanted to thank several of you for showing an interest in helping to configure and test these effects.
Regardless of how new you are to tactile, feedback can help, building nice effects is something I think I have enough experience with, the harder part (for me) is creating effects that users with different hardware/installations can get an enjoyable immersion from.

I had a potential idea I wanted to try with Simhub settings before sending these newest RV effect files.
Will spend a couple of hours tonight seeing what I can come up with to try to boost these low responses with elements like the joins in the tarmac for Tokyo.

Expect the files by sat/sun
I tried setting up deceleration G-forces to provide impact feedback, was pretty crazy testing just running into walls 😂, but even though I could see the impact on the input graph, I wasn’t feeling anything. Seems like it’s too short an input to create an output response?
 
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I tried setting up deceleration G-forces to provide impact feedback, was pretty crazy testing just running into walls 😂, but even though I could see the impact on the input graph, I wasn’t feeling anything. Seems like it’s too short an I put to create an output response?
Are you sure you turned it on in the output profiles? If it's showing on the graph it should be doing something. What hz? Too loo might not work very well either. Also have you disabled all other effects, could be another one set to high priority that overriding it?
 
Are you sure you turned it on in the output profiles? If it's showing on the graph it should be doing something. What hz? Too loo might not work very well either. Also have you disabled all other effects, could be another one set to high priority that overriding it?
Yeah it was working when I brake, just not when I hit a wall. It was set to 50hz.
 
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I’ve now got all my new 4ch exciter hardware ready to install.

4 x Dayton exciter
Nobsound 4ch amp
USB 7.1 sound card
10m of speaker wire & spade connectors

Nobsound amp added to the stack, with some temporary cable ties.
B3CBD608-D4EB-4073-BEA9-9EDCFA2A11B6.jpeg


I just need to work out the best place to stick the 4 x exciters. Now I’ve got them, I can see the surface area they need to attach and the not-so-helpful very curvy back of my bucket seat.

These seem to be the best flat locations:
9E6448FA-063E-4338-BFC4-54BF416367DB.jpeg


I’m thinking maybe green & red?

Also keeping in mind I have a pair of pucks under the middle of the seat as Channel 5.
 
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Start at top, yellow is for adding mono channels
 

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Hi guys, just a bit more advice please. I have another buttkicker gamer plus on the way.

Do you think I could run the following stereo amp instead of running x2 amps that will come with each BK? They are rated slightly higher 120W x2 instead of the 90W that comes with the BK. BK itself is rated upto 250W, so should be OK?
Any pros or cons / precautions here please?

Help me decide on this product: [New Upgraded] Fosi Audio DA2120C Bluetooth Amplifier 120Wx2 Stereo Hi-Fi 2.1 Channel Wireless Stream aptX, 24Bit/192kHz Class D Power Amp USB DAC Coaxial Optical Decoder, Support Subwoofer & Remote
Oh, I just checked and the resistances are different, the BKs run at 2ohms, this amp is 4ohms. I'll be honest, I'm learning about this as I go, but would it be OK to use in this regards? Thanks
 
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Hi guys, just a bit more advice please. I have another buttkicker gamer plus on the way.

Do you think I could run the following stereo amp instead of running x2 amps that will come with each BK? They are rated slightly higher 120W x2 instead of the 90W that comes with the BK. BK itself is rated upto 250W, so should be OK?
Any pros or cons / precautions here please?

Help me decide on this product: [New Upgraded] Fosi Audio DA2120C Bluetooth Amplifier 120Wx2 Stereo Hi-Fi 2.1 Channel Wireless Stream aptX, 24Bit/192kHz Class D Power Amp USB DAC Coaxial Optical Decoder, Support Subwoofer & Remote
Oh, I just checked and the resistances are different, the BKs run at 2ohms, this amp is 4ohms. I'll be honest, I'm learning about this as I go, but would it be OK to use in this regards? Thanks
Not very many amps will support 2-ohm loads.
The amp you want to consider is the Behringer NX3000D or NX1000D
These can power upto 2x large BK LFE or CT models. Its what you will find most in Europe using that followed recommendations I made within various PC community forums.


PM for some help if needed
 
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Mr Latte! Thanks so much for really leading this effort and helping people like me get started.
Hey, appreciate that...

Work continues on the effects, now with some of the guys in a combined private chat.
Some troubleshooting/learning is all part of it.
 
Got my "wind sim" up and running last night with a Sythe Kuze 120mm fan that I pulled off of my gaming computer 11 years ago because it was too loud, plugged it into an Arduino Leonardo with a motor board add-on and a 3d printed "intake" blowing the wrong way.
Sadly GT7 doesn't send the required telemetry needed for a fully immersive setup, just in-game speed-based fan speed. Still it's a lot of fun in the MX-5
 

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@Mr Latte thank you so much for all this work you're doing! I'll be adding tactile to my Playseat Challenge and I've been investigating a lot as to how to best approach it, and I really like your approach with exciters. Do you think it would work well if I would 3M them directly into the back and underside of the seat?
 
@Mr Latte thank you so much for all this work you're doing! I'll be adding tactile to my Playseat Challenge and I've been investigating a lot as to how to best approach it, and I really like your approach with exciters. Do you think it would work well if I would 3M them directly into the back and underside of the seat?

I also have a Playseat Challenge and here is what I did:


One BTS-1 on the wood piece, one TT25 on my back and another TT25 on pedals.

I’m now envisioning adding another TT25 on pedals and another one on my back for stereo effects. What do you think of it @Mr Latte?
 
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In general, the feedback for the effects I have been working on seems to be very positive based on private DM coms.
Some people have perhaps not the best-suited amplifiers for their used hardware or their installations are not ideal. Often we see people are tempted to just crank the volumes which is never a solution.

By creating effects in the manner I have with multiple layers for specific elements for the generation of the whole effect. We can achieve sometimes better sensations than what basic effects using single tones will generate. What is also important is using frequencies that can work better together when we start to apply additional effects.

In this example, I have opted to apply frequencies that most budget hardware will generate well but also that works superbly on the recommended exciters.

The user can alter and modify the output of several effect layers to help change the output sensation that suits different users. Of course, much more advanced effects are also possible but my focus is on seeking solutions for entry-level, advanced, and pro-level installations of hardware.

Mr Latte Racebass GT7 RV RT settingsSample.JPG


Mr Latte Racebass GT7 RV Race Mode Sample.JPG

*I can compare how/what my own effects approach generates to others, including options like SRS / SSW / Simvibe. It's clear we can go beyond and improve the immersion that most people experience with tactile or motion systems deliver.


Building More Immersive Effects That Combine Together
I've shared some rather good-feeling suspension effects for budget hardware that can offer stereo sensations and with this also offered additional road texture sensations to combine with the suspension. GT7 does not support "Road Rumble" from Simhub so I needed to make a set of "Road Textures" that helped improve the vertical surges from suspension with additional tyre/surface sensations.

Within the road textures, I applied a different feel for slow-speed and high-speed scenarios. For this I wanted an impression of depth/weight for deceleration and low-speed corners but to feel a sensation that may represent the combination of wind noise/road surface under the chassis increase with speed. This way high-speed tracks build up in felt sensation as we hear the wind noise audio from GT7 which I think adds a nice touch.


Limitations / Drawbacks
Simhub does let us achieve some rather amazing potential when it comes to tactile effects.
Yet while in this example I have tried to offer sensations people can enjoy, I know based on testing already that I can take things much further with the recommended hardware I have mentioned and how we can combine the usage of multiple channels of exciters, to apply specific felt sensations to particular body regions. This is something we cannot achieve with traditional approaches with hardware or basic effects creation.

Even with my approach in effects, someone trying to apply multiple effects and these all generated via the same units will reach a point that they then lose the definition of the individual effects. The immersion or enjoyment it offers becomes more of a tactile mush. This is one of the reasons even 4-way installations are prone to only working well with a few effects at at time.

Being more creative in this pursuit with a different approach gives me much more ability in creative expression to build effects that are not restricted and generated on just a single unit or pair of units like the typical methods use. The more control we have over the sensations going into our bodies, then the more potential we have in bringing a more enjoyable, more immersive but also more adaptable felt character to different effects. This also greatly improves how we can apply multiple different types of effects at once over traditional approaches....


Unfair Or Competitive Advantage?
GT7 does, have some limitations with not all the typical tactile effects supported. We are discovering that effects that could aid someones driving ability, or could give an advantage do seem to be limited in their operation that they won't give an advantage.
It appears Wheelslip / Braking as examples have limited/restricted input from the early look with those effects I have tried thus far.
We can still achieve some immersion from them but not apply them in the same way as possible on PC based sims.


Additional Effects & Experiencing Multichannel Feedback
I will continue to finish a range of effects for the budget hardware, including some rpm/engine options, via the PM and group of members here that took part in helping and testing. It will still be fascinating to see and discover from people what their impressions are that begin to try how tactile with multiple exciters can be in offering better effects separation but also improved detailing and wider frequency response.

Thanks again to those that are taking part and showing an interest
 
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@Mr Latte thank you so much for all this work you're doing! I'll be adding tactile to my Playseat Challenge and I've been investigating a lot as to how to best approach it, and I really like your approach with exciters. Do you think it would work well if I would 3M them directly into the back and underside of the seat?
Best to send a DM to join the testing group chat perhaps as I have improved solutions over the 3M that is already on the exciters.
At present the effects are being shared privately in seeking user feedback and recommendations before releasing them.

Additional info is given on installing etc but I do have my own journey experimenting on/off with this concept over the last 2 years. This I will share in time within its own specific thread. Yet in the chat, you will get help in advance with any queries you have as already several people are buying into this concept.

In the future thread I do, it will cover everything to showcase exactly what and how to apply the multichannel exciter approach I will offer. However, this will not come for a while yet as I am still working on building effects for it but seeking feedback from early adopters too. Additionally, how to have control of and implement "Game Audio" tactile with or without combined "Simhub Effects" in a way that nobody has done before.
 
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Hi All,

Been following GTP for a long time but this thread has finally made me sign up!

Tactile / immersion is something I'm a big fan of so I'd like to get involved if possible.

I purchased some pucks and a douk audio amp as they were on sale, and got myself a sim hub licence too.

Been playing around with settings and have managed to set up a reasonably good tactile profile, but would love to be able to test and provide feedback on any setups others are using, with the hope of learning and improving the experience.

Current setup:
  • 4 x TT25-16 pucks
  • 1 x Nobsound/douk mini
  • 1 x generic "gaming chair" with built in shakers & subwoofer
  • Laptop (old!) running simhub USB audio & HP jack
  • PS5
  • T500RS & T3PA Pro

Currently have the pucks as dual mono, 1 channel on the pedals (1 puck) and wheel mount (1 puck), 1 channel on the seat (2 pucks) - they are powered by the mini amp.
The chair has it's own amp, and is running though the headphone jack on the laptop. It has a mono subwoofer and I believe 2 shakers but they are mono and unaccessible without taking the whole thing apart. It also has 2 speakers which are 2 channel (L/R) which I plan to swap out for some more pucks or similar.

Mainly using the pucks for as close to realistic and useful feedback with regards to slip, road vibration and collisions etc, with the chair providing car effects, such as rpm, gear changes, although some effects are split between everything at varying levels.

It is certainly adding to my experience, but am the kind of person that will spend countless hours trying improve something, even marginally, as long as I know it might be possible!

Have read as much as I could find on the subject, and a big thanks to Mr Latte and everyone else who has provided input!

If it's possible to 'sign up' for the testing group I would very much love to be involved.

Thanks!
 
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