GT7 and the Chip shortage

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kjb

1,344
United States
Cary, NC
mrbabyboyd
So millions of people who might be pushed to go buy a PS5 for GT7 and then buy other games for it too then ?

Thats how this works.
That's why i bought the PS5 instead of a PS4. I do like that they made it backwards compatible so I have bought a few PS4 games I missed out on because I didn't buy a 4.
 
1,780
United States
San Antonio, Texas
Obi-Tonobi
So millions of people who might be pushed to go buy a PS5 for GT7 and then buy other games for it too then ?

Thats how this works.
Yes. I know that. Everyone just missing my point. It's OK.
 
39,029
No, nobody is missing your point. Your point is just detached from the reality of how the industry actually works, borne out by how basically all of the first party publishers in the game industry have operated for the past 25 years. What you're saying Sony would be missing out on by not kneecapping one of their flagship franchises hasn't been of much concern since the Super Nintendo and Genesis days.





Sony doesn't get nearly as much from stragglers who buy a game for their previous console several years after the replacement comes out because they still haven't upgraded, and they absolutely have no reason to cater to them when by that point they are already likely to be a minority of active players. Sony (and Microsoft and Nintendo) want you to buy into their new platform, where you have to buy new accessories and other new games. In fact, frequently the desire is so strong to guide an upgrade path that game companies completely shutter development immediately on the hardware being replaced (Microsoft has always done this and despite initial claims to the contrary looks to be doing so on the SeX, Nintendo almost always does it, Sega did it for their last two consoles, Sony usually only published games made by B-Team studios after new hardware releases). Even if there were "millions of potential sales" for a GT game on PS4 2+ years past the PS5's launch, it's in Sony's best interest to see how many of those sales would be to people who would happily buy a PS5 in order to play it. Since the answer is most likely "most of them," that's the option Sony will take.
 
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1,780
United States
San Antonio, Texas
Obi-Tonobi
No, nobody is missing your point. Your point is just detached from the reality of how the industry actually works, borne out by how basically all of the first party publishers in the game industry have operated for the past 25 years. What you're saying Sony would be missing out on by not kneecapping one of their flagship franchises hasn't been of much concern since the Super Nintendo and Genesis days.





Sony doesn't get nearly as much from stragglers who buy a game for their previous console several years after the replacement comes out because they still haven't upgraded, and they absolutely have no reason to cater to them when by that point they are already likely to be a minority of active players. Sony (and Microsoft and Nintendo) want you to buy into their new platform, where you have to buy new accessories and other new games. In fact, frequently the desire is so strong to guide an upgrade path that game companies completely shutter development immediately on the hardware being replaced (Microsoft has always done this and despite initial claims to the contrary looks to be doing so on the SeX, Nintendo almost always does it, Sega did it for their last two consoles, Sony usually only published games made by B-Team studios after new hardware releases). Even if there were "millions of potential sales" for a GT game on PS4 2+ years past the PS5's launch, it's in Sony's best interest to see how many of those sales would be to people who would happily buy a PS5 in order to play it. Since the answer is most likely "most of them," that's the option Sony will take.
You missed my point and its OK. Don't worry about it anymore.
 
39,029
Yeah Sure Whatever.gif
 
1,780
United States
San Antonio, Texas
Obi-Tonobi
Now with the recent announcement that came out today I guess my thoughts on GT7 on PS4 as well was not a stupid idea after all. Should listen to the old man once in awhile. It's still OK if you do not understand.
 
11,927
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
Now with the recent announcement that came out today I guess my thoughts on GT7 on PS4 as well was not a stupid idea after all. Should listen to the old man once in awhile. It's still OK if you do not understand.

No, it's still a stupid idea. It's just that apparently you and Sony had the same stupid idea. Being a massive company doesn't make one immune from boneheaded decisions - see Xbox 1 and used games.

That you apparently think that Sony's decision making is beyond reproach tells us all we need to know about the critical thought you've put into this. If it's a good idea, then you don't need to appeal to authority to justify it.
 
478
Spain
Spain
No, it's still a stupid idea. It's just that apparently you and Sony had the same stupid idea. Being a massive company doesn't make one immune from boneheaded decisions - see Xbox 1 and used games.

That you apparently think that Sony's decision making is beyond reproach tells us all we need to know about the critical thought you've put into this. If it's a good idea, then you don't need to appeal to authority to justify it.
You and others in this forum are apparently so much better than Sony staff. You guys should replace all of them and tell them how to work and make good decisions. :cool:
 
11,927
Australia
Melbourne
Neomone/GTP_Imari
You and others in this forum are apparently so much better than Sony staff. You guys should replace all of them and tell them how to work and make good decisions. :cool:

Love to, but I already have a job, thanks.

But yeah, it turns out that actually there is actually a job called "management" that involves giving people instruction and training into how to work and make good decisions. You seem to think that anyone hired by Sony couldn't possibly need anything like that, obviously they're already a perfect employee and their decisions are impeccable and always correct and it only seems like their decisions are poor to us mere mortals on the outside who couldn't possibly have any knowledge or experience related to these things.

But other companies, non-Sony companies, find this so useful that they actually have people called "managers" and that's their sole job. Of course, managers aren't necessarily always good at their jobs either, and they can also be taught how to manage better by people with more experience so it's a bit of an endless cycle, but the general idea that people who don't work at Sony can be imperfect and learn and improve stands.

Hopefully one day you'll get a job, and you'll find that in fact every decision that you make is not always correct. You may even ask for help from other people, or seek out training for yourself. If you're not perfect already that is, for all I know you're a Sony employee.
 
478
Spain
Spain
Love to, but I already have a job, thanks.

But yeah, it turns out that actually there is actually a job called "management" that involves giving people instruction and training into how to work and make good decisions. You seem to think that anyone hired by Sony couldn't possibly need anything like that, obviously they're already a perfect employee and their decisions are impeccable and always correct and it only seems like their decisions are poor to us mere mortals on the outside who couldn't possibly have any knowledge or experience related to these things.

But other companies, non-Sony companies, find this so useful that they actually have people called "managers" and that's their sole job. Of course, managers aren't necessarily always good at their jobs either, and they can also be taught how to manage better by people with more experience so it's a bit of an endless cycle, but the general idea that people who don't work at Sony can be imperfect and learn and improve stands.

Hopefully one day you'll get a job, and you'll find that in fact every decision that you make is not always correct. You may even ask for help from other people, or seek out training for yourself. If you're not perfect already that is, for all I know you're a Sony employee.
Another smart ass answer lol. I didn't recall this forum having so many people like you... Whatever

This huge historic decision had to have been taken by all SIE board altogether after lots of discussions. So it is the best decision taken by the people who know best. Not you, sorry.

I have a job too btw... Nice "passive agressive" jab with "assuming" I didn't.
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,211
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
Another smart ass answer lol. I didn't recall this forum having so many people like you... Whatever

This huge historic decision had to have been taken by all SIE board altogether after lots of discussions. So it is the best decision taken by the people who know best. Not you, sorry.

I have a job too btw... Nice "passive agressive" jab with "assuming" I didn't.
A smart ass answer to a smart ass comment if you ask me.

If you start making comments like this:
You and others in this forum are apparently so much better than Sony staff. You guys should replace all of them and tell them how to work and make good decisions. :cool:
What do you expect?

And don't pretend mistakes don't happen, big compainies go bust becaase their boards make bad decisions. Bad decisions happen in big buisness all the time, it's just most of them can comfortably be absorbed. The head of marketing for Cheverloet got himself fired beucase he decide to spend £700m on a sponsorship deal that created bad publicity due to the size of it. Not a bad decision then? Involving significantly more money thandeveloping GT7 too.

However, I'm pretty sure the discussion you are referring to is about GT7 not being the game it could/should be on PS5 if it ends up being cross-gen not that GT7 won't sell if it is cross-gen. I'm sure it will make a profit either way, but I maintain that it won't be as good as it should/could be oin PS5 if it is cross-gen regardless of if it ends up being a good decison or not from a business point of view for Sony.

But we've been here before, you making baseless claims and insinuating people are saying things that they aren't, so let's just leave it there eh?
 
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478
Spain
Spain
A smart ass answer to a smart ass comment if you ask me.

If you start making comments like this:

What do you expect?

And don't pretend mistakes don't happen, big compainies go bust becaase their boards make bad decisions. Bad decisions happen in big buisness all the time, it's just most of them can comfortably be absorbed. The head of marketing for Cheverloet got himself fired beucase he decide to spend £700m on a sponsorship deal that created bad publicity due to the size of it. Not a bad decision then? Involving significantly more money thandeveloping GT7 too.

However, I'm pretty sure the discussion you are referring to is about GT7 not being the game it could/should be on PS5 if it ends up being cross-gen not that GT7 won't sell if it is cross-gen. I'm sure it will make a profit either way, but I maintain that it won't be as good as it should/could be oin PS5 if it is cross-gen regardless of if it ends up being a good decison or not from a business point of view for Sony.

But we've been here before, you making baseless claims and insinuating people are saying things that they aren't, so let's just leave it there eh?
I expect people here to be only a bit humble, respect different opinions, and stop giving their opinions as facts and absolute truths... but apparently it's too much to ask.
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,211
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
I expect people here to be only a bit humble, respect different opinions, and stop giving their opinions as facts and absolute truths... but apparently it's too much to ask.
Some things are facts, like the PS4 not having infinite power to run whatever physics it so wishes, the fact that GT Sport can't do dynamic lighting and weather while still being native 1080p at 60fps on a standard PS4. An opinion (though based on history) is that PD are highly unlikely to turn thier back on 1080p at 60fps for a PS4 version of GT7 (if such a thing exists).

Focusing on how their games look has been their MO since GT1, and all the evidence supports that they will not do anything near so drastic as drop to 720p and/or 30fps just so the they can implement these things. A discussion can include both opinions and facts and it can jump between them as frequently as needed.

I suggest you take a bit of your own advice and show a bit of respect too instead of twisting peoples words be that intentional or not. If someone posts an opinion as fact and that opinion is factually wrong, feel free to call that out.

But pick your battles, and remember when a lot of experienced people are saying the same thing, there's a good chance they actually know a bit about what they're talking about. We do have game developers on this forum and we have a lot of people who work in technology, programming etc.
 
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478
Spain
Spain
Some things are facts, like the PS4 not having infinite power to run whatever physics it so wishes, the fact that GT Sport can't do dynamic lighting and weather while still being native 1080p at 60fps on a standard PS4. An opinion (though based on history) is that PD are highly unlikely to turn thier back on 1080p at 60fps for a PS4 version of GT7 (if such a thing exists).

Focusing on how their games look has been their MO since GT1, and all the evidence supports that they will not do anything near so drastic as drop to 720p and/or 30fps just so the they can implement these things. A discussion can include both opinions and facts and it can jump between them as frequently as needed.

I suggest you take a bit of your own advice and show a bit of respect too instead of twisting peoples words be that intentional or not. If someone posts an opinion as fact and that opinion is factually wrong, feel free to call that out.

But pick your battles, and remember when a lot of experienced people are saying the same thing, there's a good chance they actually know a bit about what they're talking about. We do have game developers on this forum and we have a lot of people who work in technology, programming etc.
So, now a forum discussion is a battle?
Who are these and is anyone actually working at PD so they really know what's going on? If not, I don't care at all.
HFW director said they're not limited due to PS4, I think he's a bit of a high degree expert.
PD: IT worker and programmer here, but I don't brag about it, I think it's a stupid thing to do.
 
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Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,211
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
So, now a forum discussion is a battle?
Who are these and is anyone actually working at PD so they really know what's going on? If not, I don't care at all.
HFW director said they're not limited due to PS4, I think he's a bit of a high degree expert.
PD: IT worker and programmer here, but I don't brag about it, I think it's a stupid thing to do.
Sigh.

Don't take this wrong, but I'm guessing English isn't your native language? That's what's called an idiom. It means "To choose not to participate in minor, unimportant, or overly difficult arguments, contests, or confrontations, saving one's strength instead for those that will be of greater importance or where one has a greater chance of success." so for examlple, not arguing how best to cook spicy roast duck with a professional Thai chef.

If you're an IT worker and programmer you will understand why the PS4 can't do as much processing as the PS5. So I'm guessing that since you struggle to understand what people are saying (evidenced by the number of things you take out of context/get completely wrong) that English is perhaps not your native language.

Yes PD are aware of this site and check it (though I dopn't think any PD staff ever participate in the foirum discussions.

Yes we have game developers on here, both indie and mainstream like Ian Bell, the CEO of SMS.
 
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478
Spain
Spain
Sigh.

Don't take this wrong, but I'm guessing English isn't your native language? That's what's called an idiom. It means "To choose not to participate in minor, unimportant, or overly difficult arguments, contests, or confrontations, saving one's strength instead for those that will be of greater importance or where one has a greater chance of success." so for examlple, not arguing how best to cook spicy roast duck with a professional Thai chef.

If you're an IT worker and programmer you will understand why the PS4 can't do as much processing as the PS5. So I'm guessing that since you struggle to understand what people are saying (evidenced by the number of things you take out of context/get completely wrong) that English is perhaps not your native language.

Yes PD are aware of this site and check it (though I dopn't think any PD staff ever participate in the foirum discussions.

Yes we have game developers on here, both indie and mainstream like Ian Bell, the CEO of SMS.
So you only listen to those developers who share the same view as you and ignore the others, like the one I just told.
Ian Bell... PCars developer? The one who thinks PCars 4 will be the most realistic thing ever? LOL. Ok...
What's his username?
 

Dave A

TreVoR fan for life
Premium
28,211
United Kingdom
Cuddington, Cheshire
JDA1982
So you only listen to those developers who share the same view as you and ignore the others, like the one I just told.
Ian Bell... PCars developer? The one who thinks PCars 4 will be the most realistic thing ever? LOL. Ok...
What's his username?
No, I base my opnion around my own knowledge. This conversation is veering way off, I'm not about to start discussing Ian Bell, if you want to find him on here go and find him. It's not hard, but it's not relevent to this discussion. As for the "LOL. Ok..." that just about sums up your level of reasoning.
 
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10,973
United Kingdom
West Yorkshire
Tired_Tyres
So, now a forum discussion is a battle?
Who are these and is anyone actually working at PD so they really know what's going on? If not, I don't care at all.
HFW director said they're not limited due to PS4, I think he's a bit of a high degree expert.
PD: IT worker and programmer here, but I don't brag about it, I think it's a stupid thing to do.
It takes two to have a battle. Is English not your first language? Try reading your post through before posting it and ask yourself "what kind of response will this get". A forum is about discussing opinions and bringing any specialist knowledge you have to support your point. It is not about confrontation.
 
39,029
This huge historic decision had to have been taken by all SIE board altogether after lots of discussions. So it is the best decision taken by the people who know best. Not you, sorry.
No, they don't "know" best, and you can walk that nonsense right the hell out of here. Many of the people on this forum who your are trying to dismiss as Fools for questioning "the experts" were on this forum when Sony was so far up their own ass that they lost hundreds of millions of dollars every year in order to dump a console on the market that did so badly it almost took the entire company down with it. They think they know best, and on a somewhat regular occasion they think they have such sway on the market that even if they know something is a bad decision they believe they can merely force the industry to go along with it anyway (the famous "arrogant Sony"), but they made pretty much the same decision for what they claimed was the exact same reason with the last full GT game, and it completely blew up in their face with middling review scores and a game that was in the $20 bin after only a couple of months.


In fact, this console generation isn't unheard of with things Sony "knew best" on above and beyond that, even if they aren't as laughably stupid as what Sony was doing in the early days of the PS3.

Like blocking crossplay with all games on their system to try to force people to only play popular games on PS4 which got them months of extreme negative feedback.
Like pouring nearly $400 million into buying and rebranding a game streaming service that flopped so badly that they effectively trashed a 5 year headstart on the idea and were almost immediately blown out of the water by Microsoft.
Like designing and releasing a handheld on the market and simply expecting people to buy it without any support from them because it said Playstation on it like the decently successful PSP did.
Like attempting to save that work by releasing a set top television version of the handheld, then bungling that so badly even in the era of streaming boxes fully taking off for the first time that they abandoned it a year later.
Like taking advantage of the wild amount of nostalgia from the overwhelmingly successful Nintendo Classic consoles and tapping into all of the latent PSX nostalgia to release a Playstation Classic that flopped so badly on the market Best Buy was at one point literally giving them away to get rid of them even as SNES Classics continued to be ridiculously in demand.
Like burning up goodwill on wastes of blank discs like Square's The Avengers, which is a game that was dead on the market months before it was even announced when the Best On PlaystationTM Spiderman would be showing up and likely partially as a result of Sony poisoning the reception of it.
And, yes, like spending six months talking trash about how stupid it is for Microsoft to release cross-generation games for two years and how the only real next generation experience is the PS5, then just pretending no one would remember when someone at Sony says they plan on releasing PS5 games on PS4 for essentially two years after the PS5 comes out because they just can't shift enough units to justify making exclusives.



You think the SIE board wasn't involved in each and every one of those decisions? Sony isn't an all-knowing diety on the market, even when they aren't telling people they should work two jobs to afford one of their consoles.
 
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478
Spain
Spain
No, they don't "know" best, and you can walk that nonsense right the hell out of here. Many of the people on this forum who your are trying to dismiss as Fools for questioning "the experts" were on this forum when Sony was so far up their own ass that they lost hundreds of millions of dollars every year in order to dump a console on the market that did so badly it almost took the entire company down with it. They think they know best, and on a somewhat regular occasion they think they have such sway on the market that even if they know something is a bad decision they believe they can merely force the industry to go along with it anyway (the famous "arrogant Sony"), but they made pretty much the same decision for what they claimed was the exact same reason with the last full GT game, and it completely blew up in their face with middling review scores and a game that was in the $20 bin after only a couple of months.


In fact, this console generation isn't unheard of with things Sony "knew best" on above and beyond that, even if they aren't as laughably stupid as what Sony was doing in the early days of the PS3.

Like blocking crossplay with all games on their system to try to force people to only play popular games on PS4 which got them months of extreme negative feedback.
Like pouring nearly $400 million into buying and rebranding a game streaming service that flopped so badly that they effectively trashed a 5 year headstart on the idea and were almost immediately blown out of the water by Microsoft.
Like designing and releasing a handheld on the market and simply expecting people to buy it without any support from them because it said Playstation on it like the decently successful PSP did.
Like attempting to save that work by releasing a set top television version of the handheld, then bungling that so badly even in the era of streaming boxes fully taking off for the first time that they abandoned it a year later.
Like taking advantage of the wild amount of nostalgia from the overwhelmingly successful Nintendo Classic consoles and tapping into all of the latent PSX nostalgia to release a Playstation Classic that flopped so badly on the market Best Buy was at one point literally giving them away to get rid of them even as SNES Classics continued to be ridiculously in demand.
Like burning up goodwill on wastes of blank discs like Square's The Avengers, which is a game that was dead on the market months before it was even announced when the Best On PlaystationTM Spiderman would be showing up and likely partially as a result of Sony poisoning the reception of it.
And, yes, like spending six months talking trash about how stupid it is for Microsoft to release cross-generation games for two years and how the only real next generation experience is the PS5, then just pretending no one would remember when someone at Sony says they plan on releasing PS5 games on PS4 for essentially two years after the PS5 comes out because they just can't shift enough units to justify making exclusives.



You think the SIE board wasn't involved in each and every one of those decisions? Sony isn't an all-knowing diety on the market, even when they aren't telling people they should work two jobs to afford one of their consoles.
Sure, sure. You are omitting the pandemic, incoming global economic crisis and supply shortages and everything, must have been the main reasons for this. This decision must be about them making the best possible revenue, and not necessarily the best for those who are interested in PS5 grandeur and elitism, of course, but yeah, it seems for some it's so hard to understand different POVs.
Anyway, send them your resumee/CV, you may make Sony great again
 
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1,534
vspectra06
vspectra06
So, now a forum discussion is a battle?
Who are these and is anyone actually working at PD so they really know what's going on? If not, I don't care at all.
HFW director said they're not limited due to PS4, I think he's a bit of a high degree expert.

If you cared this much about "expert" opinions on making cross-gen games for old or weaker hardware, why did you ignore all of the other developer quotes from the other thread? I'll repost them for you:

Remedy, Control developer:

"Whenever you're in this cross-generational point, to be blunt, it sucks," Puha said. "You have to support the previous gen, make sure that sings, and then whatever you bring to next-gen is still limited by the choices you made years ago for the previous generation. It's not a very realistic thing, that this old game, we're just going to remake everything and then bring it to next-gen. It's just not like that. It's not a reality for us, because you're literally taking away resources that are building the future games and improving the engine for the future."


John Linneman from Digital Foundry spoke to several devs at the start of this gen:

“nobody wants to develop for an under-powered Jaguar CPU any longer.” “I’ve spoken with enough developers to know how painful the process is at this point,” he added. “Leave Xbox One and PS4 behind.”

Billy Khan of id Software lead Engine developer taking issue with the RAM choice of Xbox Series S, let alone PS4 RAM which is slower and less and not even factoring in the huge CPU deficit the PS4 has:

"The memory situation is a big issue on the S. The much lower amount of memory and the split memory banks with drastically slower speeds will be a major issue. Aggressively lowering the render resolutions will marginally help but will not completely counteract the deficiencies."

Axel Gneiting of id Software engine programmer:

"Also 'it always scaled on PC' is nonsense. Every AAA game in the past decade or so has their assets made once so they run on min spec. Increasing sample counts a bit here and there for high settings isn't what you could truly have done with more power. Min spec matters."
And you do realize the Horizon Forbidden West director is trying to sell a product that started development for the PS4, designed with PS4 limits, and was targeted to release before the covid delays right? He's not going to say "oh actually, our game is worse from not having been designed for higher-end hardware, but please still buy our game!"