GT7 Daily Race Discussion

  • Thread starter Pigems
  • 38,377 comments
  • 2,561,054 views
There should be a red flag meaning that there are dirty drivers causing trouble, and when the flag shows up they immediately get disqualified out of the race. I'm not saying PD should rush on this but it would be a good plan to keep the races more polite, smooth and cleaner. And the game would get more positive reviews.
 
There should be a red flag meaning that there are dirty drivers causing trouble, and when the flag shows up they immediately get disqualified out of the race. I'm not saying PD should rush on this but it would be a good plan to keep the races more polite, smooth and cleaner. And the game would get more positive reviews.
If they accumulated multiple penalties, it would effectively be the same thing. There used to be 10 second penalties, and it effectively took that player out of the race.

The question is, how should the game code determine if someone is "dirty" or it's a racing incident? As in, what is materially different between the two that could be determined through the game code?
 
If they accumulated multiple penalties, it would effectively be the same thing. There used to be 10 second penalties, and it effectively took that player out of the race.

The question is, how should the game code determine if someone is "dirty" or it's a racing incident? As in, what is materially different between the two that could be determined through the game code?
Hmmm, I didn't even think about those factors. Well maybe that's not the right move then. I guess I'll just have to deal with the penalty system as it is. PD did step up their game a few months ago about setting stricter penalties for each race set.
 
And if it didn't it wouldn't deter people. I'd go as far as to suggest in would further encourage certain types of players to drive even worse.
Yes, I get the point of having a server that run just 4 racers if everybody else retire from the race (huge costs for Sony), so the only way is to "punish" retirements, ok. Still, I personally don't see enough "policing" on the "rekless driving". FI: if I'm sent "on the wall" or outside the track from a "gentleman", the algorithm should be able to "understand" that it wasn't my fault or my driving that lead me outside the track so I shouldn't be punished.
Also, I'd like to see (as deterrent) the exact same policing that there is in the missions room. I mean, just a lil touch during overtake gives penalties, love it. Maybe is lil too harsh, compared also to bots aggressive driving style, but I'll be also fine with a good compromise based on the mission room policy rather than the lawless situation it seems to be ongoing.
 
I was already demoted from DR C to DR D twice since the weekend because of my multiples retirements. Demoted also from DS S to DS B. Eventually I don't really care. It's a matter of principle, I don't race with people with "very low level of respect and sportsmanship for others" (euphemistically speaking). I start to believe that there's some catch in the system of penalties. Hit and sent in a huge spun in Tokyo from a psico, I ended with 4.5 sec penalty?!? And the system read the retirement as way more serious than the psico's move? Something is really wrong here.
The trick is to find a good online racing club that hosts lobbies at times that work for you. There are quite a few out there worth joining.
 
If they accumulated multiple penalties, it would effectively be the same thing. There used to be 10 second penalties, and it effectively took that player out of the race.

The question is, how should the game code determine if someone is "dirty" or it's a racing incident? As in, what is materially different between the two that could be determined through the game code?
Easy, physic and telemetry help a lot, the algorithm can "read" and easily know where's your braking point for all turns, the normal speeed at wich you approach a deteminate corner, angle of steering, "load" on brakes and trottle, gear in use , ecc.
In any impact, knowing the mass of the objects and theyr speed, it can be calculated how many G are generated and who's at fault.
Then it is a matter of "fair" penalties, wich will never have everybody in agreement, but at least avoid the punishments toward innocent drivers. I'm also for introducing ban of troll drivers (i've already expirienced a certain number of those) like (fi) those who chase you honking like there's no tomorrow (thinking that it can lead you to make a driving mistake, not my case anyway I think it is just annoing).
 
Easy, physic and telemetry help a lot, the algorithm can "read" and easily know where's your braking point for all turns, the normal speeed at wich you approach a deteminate corner, angle of steering, "load" on brakes and trottle, gear in use , ecc.
In any impact, knowing the mass of the objects and theyr speed, it can be calculated how many G are generated and who's at fault.
Then it is a matter of "fair" penalties, wich will never have everybody in agreement, but at least avoid the punishments toward innocent drivers. I'm also for introducing ban of troll drivers (i've already expirienced a certain number of those) like (fi) those who chase you honking like there's no tomorrow (thinking that it can lead you to make a driving mistake, not my case anyway I think it is just annoing).
I wouldn't say it's impossible, but if it were 'easy' it would have been implemented already. I have no doubt an algorithm could make an accurate determination of fault and apply an appropriate penalty, after the fact, but doing that in real time, for multiple cars in multiple races, simultaneously, is long way off.
 
Yes, I get the point of having a server that run just 4 racers if everybody else retire from the race (huge costs for Sony), so the only way is to "punish" retirements, ok. Still, I personally don't see enough "policing" on the "rekless driving". FI: if I'm sent "on the wall" or outside the track from a "gentleman", the algorithm should be able to "understand" that it wasn't my fault or my driving that lead me outside the track so I shouldn't be punished.
Also, I'd like to see (as deterrent) the exact same policing that there is in the missions room. I mean, just a lil touch during overtake gives penalties, love it. Maybe is lil too harsh, compared also to bots aggressive driving style, but I'll be also fine with a good compromise based on the mission room policy rather than the lawless situation it seems to be ongoing.
The thing is the game can't tell what you are thinking?

How does the game decide if you were making a move or the other person was? Or someone was defending too hard etc

Then you have the net code and frame rate issues where cars positions alter slightly when there is a spike in Jitter so one car may not visually be as close as it is in reality?

I mean I agree the penalty system feels pretty archaic now and even done a couple of videos of those crazy penalties you get when other people crash and they rejoin in bad ways, or where the pack comes to a standstill unexpectedly and you tap the back of a car after the crashes and still get a penalty.

I could go on and on about this.

The optimum solution but still error prone would be to use Sophys AI to steward the incidents and run it against its fair play Model to see what it would have done etc
 
The thing is the game can't tell what you are thinking?

How does the game decide if you were making a move or the other person was? Or someone was defending too hard etc

Then you have the net code and frame rate issues where cars positions alter slightly when there is a spike in Jitter so one car may not visually be as close as it is in reality?

I mean I agree the penalty system feels pretty archaic now and even done a couple of videos of those crazy penalties you get when other people crash and they rejoin in bad ways, or where the pack comes to a standstill unexpectedly and you tap the back of a car after the crashes and still get a penalty.

I could go on and on about this.

The optimum solution but still error prone would be to use Sophys AI to steward the incidents and run it against its fair play Model to see what it would have done etc
Having just run a few races against Sophy at Brands Hatch, I'm not sure fair-play is in the AI's vocabulary! 😂
 
Easy, physic and telemetry help a lot, the algorithm can "read" and easily know where's your braking point for all turns, the normal speeed at wich you approach a deteminate corner, angle of steering, "load" on brakes and trottle, gear in use , ecc.
In any impact, knowing the mass of the objects and theyr speed, it can be calculated how many G are generated and who's at fault.
Then it is a matter of "fair" penalties, wich will never have everybody in agreement, but at least avoid the punishments toward innocent drivers. I'm also for introducing ban of troll drivers (i've already expirienced a certain number of those) like (fi) those who chase you honking like there's no tomorrow (thinking that it can lead you to make a driving mistake, not my case anyway I think it is just annoing).
"Easy" doesn't even remotely describe what you've suggested.

Take braking, as you suggest. How much leeway should there be? 1 meter? 2 meters? 5 meters? 10 meters? What if I hit my brakes to avoid an accident, and in doing so cause another accident? Am I dirty? Because that happens quite often.

What you are suggesting is an AI that is trained on the many, many, laps of the broad audience to determine what behavior is out of line, and what is not. Not easy (yet) and not cheap.

We have seen countless videos on this forum and debate who is in the wrong, and you think it's easy for an algorithm? There is more that can be done to apportion blame properly, but the current level of penalties is the most livable we've had in a while.
 
Last edited:
The trick is to find a good online racing club that hosts lobbies at times that work for you. There are quite a few out there worth joining.
I’ve had those ideas before too, only those racing club guys are really good so bit limited in the opportunities to win like in the dailies.

I believe clean and fair driving breeds the same back but there will always be some moments you can’t avoid,

The odd bump which people over react to, poor track knowledge and clumsy driving and those who just wanna see the world burn! 😂🤣
 
"Easy" doesn't even remotely describe what you've suggested.

Take braking, as you suggest. How much leeway should there be? 1 meter? 2 meters? 5 meters? 10 meters? What if I hit my brakes to avoid an accident, and in doing so cause another accident? Am I dirty? Because that happens quite often.

What you are suggesting is an AI that is trained on the many, many, laps of the broad audience to determine what behavior is out of line, and what is not. Not easy (yet) and not cheap.

We have seen countless videos on this forum and debate who is in the wrong, and you think it's easy for an algorithm? There is more that can be done to apportion blame properly, but the current level of penalties is the most livable we've had in a while.
And, let's be honest, once we do have an algorithm making the calls, we'll be here complaining about that, too. Maybe once Sophy has been rolled out to all tracks, and they can collect data for a couple years, they'll get to something that isn't absolute garbage, but I wouldn't hold my breath. It seems a lot of folks think you just slap an algorithm on there and the magic happens. Training models is hard...takes a while to get them to stop checking for wings on the buffalo.😁

Topic alignment time...surprised I'm able to find any kind of pace at Daytona in the 911. I've enjoyed some miles figuring the track out as I just don't know the place but am running high 45's consistently with a PB at 1:45.6xx. Coupled with y'all posting race results with a 911 or two in contention at the end, I think it's time to go racing.

:cheers:
 
"Easy" doesn't even remotely describe what you've suggested.

Take braking, as you suggest. How much leeway should there be? 1 meter? 2 meters? 5 meters? 10 meters? What if I hit my brakes to avoid an accident, and in doing so cause another accident? Am I dirty? Because that happens quite often.

What you are suggesting is an AI that is trained on the many, many, laps of the broad audience to determine what behavior is out of line, and what is not. Not easy (yet) and not cheap.

We have seen countless videos on this forum and debate who is in the wrong, and you think it's easy for an algorithm? There is more than can be done to apportion blame properly, but the current level of penalties is the most livable we've had in a while.
Let's make a difference between rekless driving and mistakes made in good fait.
If I try to avoid an accident causing by consequence an other one, I nevertheless caused a collision and I should own it taking responsability and accept the penalty. Still, that is an accident by definition and I know I wasn't intentionally trying to "hurt" anybody when losing control of the car.
An other story is when I brake 30 or even 50 m beyond the ideal braking point of the fastest lap so far during my race (Tokyo first corner fi). Let's say that I'm still in "good fait". I should try everything (i mean at least all is in my possibility) to avoid to hit the guy in front of me... rather than target his back to send him spinning around, allowing me to (diabolically) make the turn. The poor guy may lose up to 15-20 sec while I'm going away with just 4 or 5 sec. This kinda psico driving is easily detectable, let's say.
The delta in braking point depends on the approach speed, the higher the speed the higher the delta (regardless the differences in driver's skill). With the amount of data that Polyphony has on quali-laps from different skilled players, races (dayly or official contests) from all DR an DS categories, I don't see the "science fiction" of an algorithm monitoring and policing 12 to 16 objects (players) in a rather confined space. Especially when those aren't always altogether engaged like at the start (in fps games the algorithm takes care of 128-150 players)
That said, my approach may be lil too sim-racing than fun-racing, I know.
II don't know neither how it was when the game was released, nor the improvements throughout the different patches. I started just 3 month ago, visiting gtsport from ar 3 weeks.
I've already noticed the transparency trick in messy situation, wich is a huge pro compared to the old good times (early 2000). I'm sure, since I got finally g923 today, I'll find my place in rather clean lobbies than messy ones.

The thing is the game can't tell what you are thinking?

How does the game decide if you were making a move or the other person was? Or someone was defending too hard etc

Then you have the net code and frame rate issues where cars positions alter slightly when there is a spike in Jitter so one car may not visually be as close as it is in reality?

I mean I agree the penalty system feels pretty archaic now and even done a couple of videos of those crazy penalties you get when other people crash and they rejoin in bad ways, or where the pack comes to a standstill unexpectedly and you tap the back of a car after the crashes and still get a penalty.

I could go on and on about this.

The optimum solution but still error prone would be to use Sophys AI to steward the incidents and run it against its fair play Model to see what it would have done etc
For those situations that can be described as outliers (fi MV and LH at Copse in '21 and many others) there's not so much to do. I understand that the policy could be conservative, thus the penalty threshold should be larger.
I'm more focused on those deemed as reckless driving, like hitting whatever moves around you. I've seen many (imho already too many) in only 3 weeks. It seems to me that, regardless the missions room where overtaking without touch is mandatory, people tends to overtake like they're racing with bots. Isn't it? I know that when I'll rank up I'll see less messy races, but for now it is sometimes quite frustrating.

The trick is to find a good online racing club that hosts lobbies at times that work for you. There are quite a few out there worth joining.
I like the idea, thanks. I'll try that for sure in future.
 
Well no racing for me for a few days - while at work, I got bitten on both hands by an Otter (long story)
Sore hands, tetanus injection and a course of antibiotics. Bloody Otters - though I wasn't enjoying the racing much anyway, so not to bothered:)
Alright David Attenborough this is a racing thread stay on topic.

What time did the otter manage in the Porsche at Tokyo?
 
I’ve had those ideas before too, only those racing club guys are really good so bit limited in the opportunities to win like in the dailies.

I believe clean and fair driving breeds the same back but there will always be some moments you can’t avoid,

The odd bump which people over react to, poor track knowledge and clumsy driving and those who just wanna see the world burn! 😂🤣
Try GBRC, the “Grumpy British Racing Club”. Drivers of all ages and abilities welcome. League racing 8pm (UK time) Sunday nights, casual/practice racing on Thursday evenings. Racing fair is more important than winning in the group.

 
Last edited:
Try GBRC, the “Grumpy British Racing Club”. Drivers of all ages and abilities welcome. League racing 8pm Sunday nights, casual/practice racing on Thursday evenings. Racing fair is more important than winning in the group.

Hmmm, I'm interested in this club thing, this would help me to improve my skills if I can stay behind my friends or any other drivers. See I still use the assists especially the line for Daytona, the Road Course. When I sit far away from the TV I have to use the braking area and driving lines to help me sense when to start turning and cornering/trail braking. 90% of the time now I use MT now to brake sooner and to improve my exits from each turn/corner. Hey, @GrumpyOldMan should try this!! And maybe some more of us.
 
Last edited:
Well no racing for me for a few days - while at work, I got bitten on both hands by an Otter (long story)
Sore hands, tetanus injection and a course of antibiotics. Bloody Otters - though I wasn't enjoying the racing much anyway, so not to bothered:)

You can’t just post about getting bitten by an otter while at work without the story. lol. The chances of that sentence and experience ever occurring is like 1 in a billion. Obviously im sorry you got hurt and you’re hopefully ok, but that has to be the best story ever!! You must have a wild job, what are the chances! I’ve seen otters, but they always go the other way. You have to tell it lol.
 
I just ran a few practice laps before doing more Daytona racing.

I start P2 in my first race and don't mess up the bus stop. P1 spins on the entry into turn 1 and I take the lead. Until I touch some grass exiting the second hairpin. I go on to finish P9 and barely lose out to a Supra that caught me on the final straight to the finish.

My 2nd and last race tonight has me in P3. P2 goes off track and I start the chase for P1 that is driving a Supra. Well, an off track penalty stops that real quick. After pit stops cycle through, I'm right behind the Supra I was chasing before and the chase is on again. I have a brown pants moment in the bus stop, and I manage to not spin and go into stay in P2 mode. Which works great until I take the bus stop too slow on the final lap and spin, then finish P5. I was stunned that I did that and call it a night.

While my results weren't the best, I still love racing at Daytona. It's one of my favorite tracks in the game an will always make time to race there. I will probably need to use the Supra in the next Gr.3 race as I was a sitting duck on the straights. It was incredible how quick they could catch up to me. Still a good time this week for me.
 
Did some more C races with the Supra but this time with the pad and I was a bit shocked. I usually don't drive the Supra because I always had trouble with the car (on pad). Can't point direct at it but something always felt off for me with it.

So this week on C I only drove it with the wheel and it was great. No problem with the car whatsoever until tonight.
Same problems with the car like before with the pad. i was around 1-2s slower compared to the wheel.

I just started with the wheel so no way that I am 1-2s faster with the wheel then with pad.

Does anyone have similar experiences? I mean could be that I just had some bad races but it felt weird 🤔
 
Last edited:
Well tonight was my second night at Daytona. I used the first 2 nights turning laps in different cars to see what I was comfortable in. I went with the Ford GT. I was able to get into the 1:45's. This time put up front in the C races. So last night I jumped in at Daytona and tried different strategy's. So after some mistakes on my part i decided on how I was going to race tonight. I really wanted a win in thr Ford.


 
Race A is awesome this week. My time in qualifying is 2:10.564 I think, in the race I've managed a 2:08.9 with the slipstreams.

Weapon of choice XJ 220, what an awesome car for this race.
I think that out of the 14 races I've done so far, that I only once did not get a top 3, with 5 wins already.

Hope they do races like these more often, just a bit of a bummer that you can't use a personal livery.
 
1728038447715.png


RM on Daily A.
RS w/rolling start (aka, not SF race) on Daily C.
 
Last edited:
Back