GT7 to be announced at E3? ... standard cars return! (Poll)

[eran0004]

The author of that article just may be the Pulitzer Prize for Journalism

My personal favourite:

Gran Turismo 7 is going to be a high quality game than Gran Turismo 7 when it comes to data and features.

 

[Meithyk]

Kaz, listen to me. Just say 600 cars in E3.

 

[Oner]

While I admit I don't "want" standard cars in GT7 it doesn't actually affect me (or anyone for that matter) directly as the physics of a standard vs premium are no different (or am I mistaken and that has been clarified/confirmed without my knowledge?). So while I voted ~ No, I honestly would not really mind them included in GT7 as it would just be more variety to choose from/enjoy and with the view mode I use it would never matter anyway...only in replays and hitting that apex or making that perfect pass would feel just as good in a "standard" car as it would in the "premium" version.

 

[black300zx]

There are still too many cars I like to play that are not premium (RUfs for example) and can tolerate the difference in quality just because I like them so much. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone on this so just dropping them altogether means there's going to be a lot of people that will not get to play with those standard cars they like. But I see people's point they can be an eye sore and give you a inconsistent playing experience. I personally don't understand why the AI opponents sometime use standard models even when a premium version is available like 350s, S2ks, miata, etc.

First they should stop boasting 1000+ cars when marketing GT7, it will sell regardless and may force standards to be prominently used in the game. What I think they should do is not use any standards for opponent AI cars at all, enforce only premium opponents. There should be a good number of premiums in all categories now to be able to do this. I also propose standards are not made available in the dealership along with the premium versions.

Not having to race against standards will even things out graphically for those that don't want to see/use standards, while keeping them available to those that do (talking single player here). Excluding standards on regular dealership will also alleviate cycling thru hundreds of duplicate GTRs/Miatas while you're trying to buy a premium version for the car and keep the graphics consistent. Maybe bring back the used car lot! It was fun seeing a rare car pop up once in a while, or just create a separate dealer for standards.

In theory, this way you'll have a premium model-only experience in GT7 (offline at least) unless you purposely go looking for/buying standard to use yourself. In which case you know what you're getting into and can't complain.

 

[Tenacious D]

This is yet another compromise. Include Standards in the game but segregate them. This way, the Standard haters can stay away from the bad parts of town where those awful cars are for sale, and never have to see them.

I definitely not only want all the Standards to return, even without a tummy tuck, but the Used Car Dealerships too.

 

[Obi Wan]

No, there shouldn't be any standard cars in the game at all. They need to make the significant ones premium (BMW M3 CSL, E46 M3, Supra, Ruf, and a couple of more mundane cars) and ditch the rest.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Here's an interesting perspective on standards. Standards have a broad appeal on GTP no doubt, because it's full of diehard, long term fans. But how much of an appeal do they have to the average gamer? What do the stats say? Well they say this:

Not about standards specifically, but how important can standards be, or having 1200 cars for that matter, if more than 80% of players never own more than 8% of the available cars? 70% of users never own 96% of the cars in the game. Think about that for a minute. 70% of players never own or drive 24/25 cars in the game! If this isn't convincing evidence that standards don't have broad appeal and in fact the entire car list does not have broad appeal, I don't know what is.

 

[Saidur_Ali]

Here's an interesting perspective on standards. Standards have a broad appeal on GTP no doubt, because it's full of diehard, long term fans. But how much of an appeal do they have to the average gamer? What do the stats say? Well they say this:

View attachment 384320

Not about standards specifically, but how important can standards be, or having 1200 cars for that matter, if more than 80% of players never own more than 8% of the available cars? 70% of users never own 96% of the cars in the game. Think about that for a minute. 70% of players never own or drive 24/25 cars in the game! If this isn't convincing evidence that standards don't have broad appeal and in fact the entire car list does not have broad appeal, I don't know what is.

Sample of only 92,549 PSN profiles with this game though.

 

[Tenacious D]

If this isn't convincing evidence that standards don't have broad appeal and in fact the entire car list does not have broad appeal, I don't know what is.

So? There are similar stats for Forza 4's car list, though because it's smaller, more fans owned a larger percentage of the cars. But if a game has 450 cars, and the gamerbase only uses half of them, you shouldn't ask for more cars in the next game? No need for DLC? A few here argue that GT3 is the most popular game in the series, and with only 150 cars and 17 track locations and a test course, that's all you need for a great racing game. Do you think P CARS needs no more cars? Does P CARS have way too many track locations??

Suppose it came out that only 5% of GT's gamerbase used online to race. Should the online system be dumped?

Look. Arguing that people shouldn't have something because you can come up with some metric isn't going to wash with a lot of people. Please don't argue for less of something, when we CAN have more of it. I don't want Gran Turismo made for you. You have a "precious" to fondle, be happy with that.

 

[Tornado]

So?

So this:

Arguing that people shouldn't have something because you can come up with some metric isn't going to wash with a lot of people.

And arguments like it don't actually have the weight assumed if the "silent majority" that you're appealing to isn't actually a majority. And 92,000 is a hell of a lot larger of a sample size than the few hundred max who take part in GTP polls on the issue.

 

[Tenacious D]

I predict your opinion isn't going to be paid any attention, Tor, and the world likely won't care. Even now, GT6 is bouncing around the Top 10 point in Amazon's Top 100 PS3 Games, a game a year and a half old. As others have said, the die hards here will poo their pants over issues that the rest of the world shrugs at. If GT7 returns with 700 Standard cars and mostly Standard tracks, will you accuse the gaming world of being blind because they don't care?

 

[Johnnypenso]

Sample of only 92,549 PSN profiles with this game though.

Which would make it a massive sample of gargantuan proportions, exponentially bigger than opinion polls you read and hear about every day that are accurate within 4% points.

So? There are similar stats for Forza 4's car list, though because it's smaller, more fans owned a larger percentage of the cars.

Link?

But if a game has 450 cars, and the gamerbase only uses half of them, you shouldn't ask for more cars in the next game? No need for DLC? A few here argue that GT3 is the most popular game in the series, and with only 150 cars and 17 track locations and a test course, that's all you need for a great racing game.

I'm looking at the bigger picture. Clearly the stats indicate that owning a huge garage is something that appeals to a tiny minority of players so it opens the door to streamlining the car list because a gigantic car list only appeals to a select few players and those players will buy the game regardless because it's GT. Your GT3 example only serves to put an exclamation point on it, so thanks for that.

Do you think P CARS needs no more cars? Does P CARS have way too many track locations??

"Need" is not a word I would use. Would more cars be better? Yes. Would it have sold more if it had more cars? Probably. Did they put all the cars they could afford to license and model in the game? Yes? However, if the option was importing 500 cars of 5000 polygons from 2005 it would be an emphatic no.

Too many tracks? You miss the point entirely. All the tracks in PCars are the same quality. In GT they are not and may not be in the future. Big difference.

Suppose it came out that only 5% of GT's gamerbase used online to race. Should the online system be dumped?

The overall quality of the game does not go down by having online. It does with standard cars and tracks.

Look. Arguing that people shouldn't have something because you can come up with some metric isn't going to wash with a lot of people. Please don't argue for less of something, when we CAN have more of it. I don't want Gran Turismo made for you. You have a "precious" to fondle, be happy with that.

Apparently it washes with a massive number of people who simply aren't interested in owning a large garage full of cars and likely could care less if they have 600 premiums to choose from or 1400 premiums and standards because they'll never more than a tiny percentage of cars. Arguably this makes a case for focusing on newer, fresher content and not wasting time sprucing up old cars that everyone has driven as much as they wanted to in previous versions of the game.

And again, you completely miss the point. It's not about having less of something and it never has been. It's about having a game that is visually consistent across the board. I don't see why anyone would think it would be acceptable to have 10 year old assets in a next gen game.

 

[pasigiri]

@Johnnypenso
Your sig "Funniest GT6 video ever" says it all.

You know this is kind of silly. Example: Imagine playing Doom 3 with some of the 2D monsters from the original in it. Looks weird right? I know that's 2D vs 3D, but let's make this closer to home. Imagine driving the La Ferrari from Driveclub on El Capitan in GT4. Looks out of place.

This is my problem with standards being in GT7. The generation gap is just TOO much now that standards inclusion could REALLY hurt the series.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I predict your opinion isn't going to be paid any attention, Tor, and the world likely won't care. Even now, GT6 is bouncing around the Top 10 point in Amazon's Top 100 PS3 Games, a game a year and a half old. As others have said, the die hards here will poo their pants over issues that the rest of the world shrugs at. If GT7 returns with 700 Standard cars and mostly Standard tracks, will you accuse the gaming world of being blind because they don't care?

The game is a year and a half old, and one of the last feature releases for the PS3... You say what you just did as if it had massive competition from others on the console (PS3). In reality everyone else moved on and thus fights that may have happened on the PS3 with GT6 were saved by the fact the newer PS4 was on the market. I just wanted to point that out it seems like loaded data to support what will already be looked upon as a bias effort to give kudos to the PD group on GT6, when the market was all theirs in a sense. It seems there is a good shift though forming with PCars and soon AC on consoles as well as the perpetration for other cross console racers or feature ones like FM6, I hope that GT comes out so a fundamental comparison can be made during the same hardware generation.

 

[Tornado]

I predict your opinion isn't going to be paid any attention, Tor, and the world likely won't care.

I know it's too much to expect of you to put together a rebuttal unless someone else does it for you, but it really shouldn't be too hard on your part to actually read the post you're responding to before you start reconstructing those goalposts in another spot. I mean, yeah, blah blah sales is quality blah blah, but you'll note if you actually read my post the significance of Johnnypenso's data seems to suggest that "the world" doesn't care about your opinion either; contrary to the years now you've attempted to claim you represented the majority opinion of all GT players.

 

[Meithyk]

No, there shouldn't be any standard cars in the game at all. They need to make the significant ones premium (BMW M3 CSL, E46 M3, Supra, Ruf, and a couple of more mundane cars) and ditch the rest.

Even 22B, XJ220, TVR Speed 12, R390 Roads, Furai, Lotus Carlton, and every RUF in GT.

 

[Obi Wan]

Yeo they should be in as well.

 

[Tenacious D]

I know it's too much to expect of you to put together a rebuttal unless someone else does it for you

All right, GT Planet brain trust, here's one for your lofty self.

There have been a fair number of people here besides me who have mentioned having several hundred cars in their garages. No let's take Johnny's number and extrapolate this to GT5's sales figures, which considering it's still selling right along according to Amazon, may well have exceeded 11 million by now. 8% of 11 million is 880,000. Now, if SONY only made $10 on each sale, a decidedly lowball figure, this amounts to revenue of almost $9 million.

Maybe this is chump change to you, but I'd pay attention to every revenue stream if I was a business like SONY Computer Entertainment. This is just one angle.

Satisfied?

 

[Johnnypenso]

All right, GT Planet brain trust, here's one for your lofty self.

There have been a fair number of people here besides me who have mentioned having several hundred cars in their garages. No let's take Johnny's number and extrapolate this to GT5's sales figures, which considering it's still selling right along according to Amazon, may well have exceeded 11 million by now. 8% of 11 million is 880,000. Now, if SONY only made $10 on each sale, a decidedly lowball figure, this amounts to revenue of almost $9 million.

Maybe this is chump change to you, but I'd pay attention to every revenue stream if I was a business like SONY Computer Entertainment. This is just one angle.

Satisfied?

$10 on the sale of what?

 

[Tornado]

So that theoretical 20% of people who exceeded 100 cars in GT6 simply won't buy another GT game unless it has every car GT6 had, or...?


Legitimately not sure what the hypothetical is asking.

 

[gtracedriver1]

Premiums only. Having said that if not driving a standard car in cockpit view it never bothered me much in GT6

 

[RACECAR]

So, about GT7 being at E3....

 

[BIGBEN]

I'm all for standard cars and really can't see why there's so much hate. I've been a member on this site since 2003 and it seems as if a lot arcade racers have slipped into the ranks. The GT platform was founded on standard cars, thats kind of the point, to take a car that you see on the road every day or may even own, hop it up, tune it up and tear it up. Thats is Gran Turismo to me. There's nothing I like more than to browse the used car lot find a rare gem and push it to it's limits. So go take your pick from the rest of the racing games and have fun with the same handful of dumba$$ supercars that litter them all and leave GT as is. Why would you not want more cars? And why in the hell would you start a thread or a poll none the less to take away something that is of no consequence to you? So, like I said, f off and go play NFS or something.

Standards all the way.

 

[TurismoBad]

GTP should start banning sites. 💡

Here's an interesting perspective on standards. Standards have a broad appeal on GTP no doubt, because it's full of diehard, long term fans. But how much of an appeal do they have to the average gamer? What do the stats say? Well they say this:

View attachment 384320

Not about standards specifically, but how important can standards be, or having 1200 cars for that matter, if more than 80% of players never own more than 8% of the available cars? 70% of users never own 96% of the cars in the game. Think about that for a minute. 70% of players never own or drive 24/25 cars in the game! If this isn't convincing evidence that standards don't have broad appeal and in fact the entire car list does not have broad appeal, I don't know what is.

Are those all the same cars though ? It might not matter to them to create a collection of 500+ cars but the presence of their favorite car could've entice them to purchase the game in the first place.

With bigger list more people can find their favorite machine.

There are people who like Nascar, WRC, GT300, GT500, old race cars, city cars, standards, super cars - removing any of that lowers the value to someone out there that likes that particular thing.

I for example was super happy that GT6 had McLaren F1 and Lamborghini Miura - I couldn't wait to drive them. The inclusion of those two definitely helped on selling the game to me.

I believe most of the guys/gals have their own F1 and Miura that if seen on a car list takes them a lot closer to making the purchase.

 

[Chikane_GTR]

Nope.

Keep those crappy ps2 era cars out of gt7 if you wanna go up against today's heavyweights like PC and F6 and soon Assetto Corsa.

 

[JKgo]

...I dunno if anyone asked this before, but just how much does it cost PDI to keep all those standard cars in the game financially?

In TV land, when a TV station or a network wants to buy rights to broadcast a movie or a show, the station doesn't just buy that program alone, but two or three lesser known titles get lumped in the deal together. That used to be the norm, but I dunno if that's still the case.

The reason why I brought this up is, I used to believe PDI did this back when for GT4 and 5. Maybe even to 6.

Now I'm not so sure about this arrangement anymore. So I ask again, is having all 'em standard cars a massive drain in PDI's purses which in turn prevents them from getting more European and American cars?

Anyone got any ideas? I don't think anyone can find a link or a news source for this, since PDI's known for their notorious secrecy (second only to Apple, natch). Maybe someone here knows someone whose friend is working for a car maker's PR division and heard something somewhere.

 

[Tornado]

The GT platform was founded on standard cars, thats kind of the point, to take a car that you see on the road every day or may even own, hop it up, tune it up and tear it up. Thats is Gran Turismo to me.

And what does that have to do with Standard cars?

 

[Famine]

I'm all for standard cars and really can't see why there's so much hate. I've been a member on this site since 2003 and it seems as if a lot arcade racers have slipped into the ranks. The GT platform was founded on standard cars, thats kind of the point, to take a car that you see on the road every day or may even own, hop it up, tune it up and tear it up. Thats is Gran Turismo to me. There's nothing I like more than to browse the used car lot find a rare gem and push it to it's limits. So go take your pick from the rest of the racing games and have fun with the same handful of dumba$$ supercars that litter them all and leave GT as is. Why would you not want more cars? And why in the hell would you start a thread or a poll none the less to take away something that is of no consequence to you? So, like I said, f off and go play NFS or something.

Standards all the way.

I think you might have conflated the concept of Standard cars (those legacy models carried over from previous Gran Turismo games, as opposed to new, Premium models) with that of standard cars (ordinary real world cars, as opposed to supercars).

Incidentally, don't do this again:

f off and go play NFS

And absolutely don't do this:

dumba$$

The swear filter exists for a reason and typing words creatively just to get round the filter and have them displayed on the forum is both against the letter of the rules and the spirit of them.

Even though you have, bizarrely, chosen to do it on a word that isn't in the filter - the intent is clear.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Are those all the same cars though ? It might not matter to them to create a collection of 500+ cars but the presence of their favorite car could've entice them to purchase the game in the first place.

With bigger list more people can find their favorite machine.

There are people who like Nascar, WRC, GT300, GT500, old race cars, city cars, standards, super cars - removing any of that lowers the value to someone out there that likes that particular thing.

I for example was super happy that GT6 had McLaren F1 and Lamborghini Miura - I couldn't wait to drive them. The inclusion of those two definitely helped on selling the game to me.

I believe most of the guys/gals have their own F1 and Miura that if seen on a car list takes them a lot closer to making the purchase.

Every decision is a trade off. My question would be, "how many people will be turned off by a title with 10+ year old legacy assets that look 2 generations old?". GT3 sales, Forza 5's recent quick sales record, tell you that a massive car and track count aren't necessary to be successful. Assetto Corsa was a hugely successful game on pc with less than 40 cars at launch and 12 tracks. People will pay for quality as well.

 

[cjr3559]

Here's an interesting perspective on standards. Standards have a broad appeal on GTP no doubt, because it's full of diehard, long term fans. But how much of an appeal do they have to the average gamer? What do the stats say? Well they say this:

View attachment 384320

Not about standards specifically, but how important can standards be, or having 1200 cars for that matter, if more than 80% of players never own more than 8% of the available cars? 70% of users never own 96% of the cars in the game. Think about that for a minute. 70% of players never own or drive 24/25 cars in the game! If this isn't convincing evidence that standards don't have broad appeal and in fact the entire car list does not have broad appeal, I don't know what is.

What these stats say is I can't read into the mind of the average GT6 gamer, which is someone that may have only played the game for possibly 30 hours. I would like to see stats showing the ratio of number of cars owned to hours played. If I've only played for a short while I'm likely not going to have 600 cars.

Also, if we consider the "average GT6 gamer" as the basis for ditching standards altogether, where's the proof that this silent majority is choosing all the premium cars?