GT7 to feature Isle of Man?

[The Stig Farmer]

By that logic they should just skip Pikes Peak as well because it's long and you can't use it for circuit racing.

Please, see my post on the last page.

In this example, Pikes Peak would be a solid addition because it would finally give us the 'proper' place to run the gamut of hillclimb cars that GT has amassed over the years.

Now, an Isle of Man TT course without bikes would feel... hollow. IOM TT is bikes and that is what it is known for. Type "isle of man" into Google and the first suggestion is the TT - before the sole phrase "isle of man" itself! Only when you go looking for it do you find that a small handful of cars have attempted the lap.

Related; a good comparison is the V8 Supercars situation in Forza 4 (where there were a load of modern V8 Supercars, but no Mount Panorama to race them on).

 

[ironman44321]

Yes there's always a tradeoff when something is done. However, the tradeoff isn't usually 10:1 which you conveniently forgot to acknowledge. I don't think it's the one track vs. the other track that most people would take issue with, it's one track vs. ten tracks. What's ridiculous is not acknowledging that it could be a legitimate concern for some people and complaining about it when someone points it out.

mmmmmm I'd love to hear the argument where one 10 mile track takes as long to make as ten 1 miles tracks...I'd also like to hear how many new real world tracks you thought GT7 was going to have before you heard this rumor. Personally I find it hard to believe that it would have more than 10 new tracks, or that the IOM will be the only new track...But maybe this isn't the place for that discussion.

Maybe if you don't want or like the track you just don't use it? Oh but wait, you don't like that it takes up resources so that isn't a valid response is it? Unless your talking about bikes of course.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...motorcycles-in-gt7.313574/page-2#post-9894701

As I said, everything they add is going to consume resources. Complaining about them being used on something the community wants is ridiculous (because lord knows you'd complain if it was time being spent on something the community doesn't want).

Please, see my post on the last page.

In this example, Pikes Peak would be a solid addition because it would finally give us the 'proper' place to run the gamut of hillclimb cars that GT has amassed over the years.

Now, an Isle of Man TT course without bikes would feel... hollow. IOM TT is bikes and that is what it is known for. Type "isle of man" into Google and the first suggestion is the TT - before the sole phrase "isle of man" itself! Only when you go looking for it do you find that a small handful of cars have attempted the lap.

Related; a good comparison is the V8 Supercars situation in Forza 4 (where there were a load of modern V8 Supercars, but no Mount Panorama to race them on).

I have to be honest I don't understand that line of thinking...simply because it's known for bikes doesn't change the course itself at all. It's still 37 miles of beautiful, fast, tight back roads.

Just like Pikes Peak would be a great addition even if we didn't have any hill climb cars.

But that's just my opinion of course.

 

[Johnnypenso]

mmmmmm I'd love to hear the argument where one 10 mile track takes as long to make as ten 1 miles tracks...I'd also like to hear how many new real world tracks you thought GT7 was going to have before you heard this rumor. Personally I find it hard to believe that it would have more than 10 new tracks, or that the IOM will be the only new track.

You can spin it any number of ways but the fact is, you can't create 37 miles of track and scenery in the same time it takes to create 3 miles of track and scenery. I'm sure there's some economies of scale in not having to travel to various places but the truth remains, IOM TT will take the modeling time of several tracks that would have made it into the game in their place. People wanting it doesn't change that or make it a worthwhile tradeoff for those that prefer circuit racing on real circuits.

Would I trade IOM TT for Hockenheim? Sure would. Hockenheim and Abu Dhabi? Probably. Hockenheim, Abu Dhabi, Zandvoort, Algarve and Long Beach? No I wouldn't. (Example for illustration purposes only, not meant to be literal). I'm sure the tradeoff isn't 1:1, nor is it 12:1, but somewhere in the middle.

I have to be honest I don't understand that line of thinking...simply because it's known for bikes doesn't change the course itself at all. It's still 37 miles of beautiful, fast, tight back roads.

It's known for bikes because that's what made it famous and because most of the course is barely two lanes wide and not suitable for high speed automotive racing. You don't have the same spatial awareness in a videogame you have in real life so narrow tracks like the Nurb and Tsukuba for example, appear much narrower in the game than they do in real life. IOM is both narrower and has barriers on both sides for much of the course. You'll literally be able to drive up the middle of the course and no one will be able to pass you.
It'll make a great Time Trial and cruising course, which is the majority of what GT is about at this point anyway.

 

[ironman44321]

You can spin it any number of ways but the fact is, you can't create 37 miles of track and scenery in the same time it takes to create 3 miles of track and scenery. I'm sure there's some economies of scale in not having to travel to various places but the truth remains, IOM TT will take the modeling time of several tracks that would have made it into the game in their place. People wanting it doesn't change that or make it a worthwhile tradeoff for those that prefer circuit racing on real circuits.

Would I trade IOM TT for Hockenheim? Sure would. Hockenheim and Abu Dhabi? Probably. Hockenheim, Abu Dhabi, Zandvoort, Algarve and Long Beach? No I wouldn't. (Example for illustration purposes only, not meant to be literal). I'm sure the tradeoff isn't 1:1, nor is it 12:1, but somewhere in the middle.

It's known for bikes because that's what made it famous and because most of the course is barely two lanes wide and not suitable for high speed automotive racing. You don't have the same spatial awareness in a videogame you have in real life so narrow tracks like the Nurb and Tsukuba for example, appear much narrower in the game than they do in real life. IOM is both narrower and has barriers on both sides for much of the course. You'll literally be able to drive up the middle of the course and no one will be able to pass you.
It'll make a great Time Trial and cruising course, which is the majority of what GT is about at this point anyway.

I wasn't the one spinning. I never claimed it was 1:1 you claimed it was 10:1. Heck, you even doubled down on calling it 10:1.

The fact of the matter is that you have no idea how much making IOM takes away or even what it takes away. For all we know if they didn't make it the game would launch a little earlier, or it could mean we get a track or a few cars at launch instead of in an update...who knows.

You made an assumption about what's going on and are complaining based on that while defending your assumption with exaggeration.

I'll repeat. Ridiculous.

Your response to my comment about the bikes is off topic. He was saying that without having bikes IOM won't be as worth while because it is famous for it's bike racing. He mentioned nothing about the course itself. My question is why does the lack of bikes (or any specific vehicle type) take away from a track when it has no effect on the course itself?

 

[Grand Prix]

I would prefer having more re-done PD original and street circuits, there was hardly any great street circuits in GT6 in comparison to previous games. It seems to me that PD are jumping the shark with this one.

That said, if they also included the Moto Guzzi 500cc V8, I probably wouldn't mind the Isle of Man's inclusion at all.

 

[F1 fan]

But if that's all it's good for, why not instead invest in a less-costly fast hillclimb like Sternberk or Rieti-Terminillo?

You are aware that some of us want to see the TT course, right? Yes, it'll be a hell of a job to include it, but if one man from Australia can do it* on a shoestring budget, a team like PD can do it. I'm drooling at the possibility of whiling away the hours, flying round the track with a huge selection of cars, and fingers crossed, bikes. Yes, there are many tracks that I would love to see in Gran Turismo, but most of those tracks are available in other games. Only a first party studio can do a good job of a track like Snaefell mountain. Allow us TT fans to be selfish and hope it actually happens.

*He hasn't actually finished the full version yet, but he continues to work on it alone and with no data other than 1000's of reference photos.

 

[ShiftingGears]

What good is it if PD builds a pretty good game again and theres no buzz surrounding it? It would be like the Final Fantasy 13 sequels that sold worse then the first game even though they fixed alot of the original's gameplay issues.

So do you want gameplay issues fixed, or do you want PD to maintain sales? You seem to prefer the latter. That said, they are not mutually exclusive. I would also like to point out that GT5 and GT6 have had plenty of features, delivered or not, whose primary function seemed to be to create 'buzz'. That does not seem to be working out so well for them at the moment. So really, including another feature with little in-game utility would just be PD continuing the trend they've already set.

 

[JAHHAJ]

As much as I want this track in the game, it doesn't actually make sense to have it without having any bikes in the game, I would rather PD focused on making the game a better experience all together than GT6 then they can focus on everything else like Isle of Man and bikes.

 

[Soulfresh_ACV]

Anyone remember playing this in the arcade

 

[MasamuneDate]

I agree with those who'd rather have a bigger number of "racing" circuits over one massive "time-trial" course, even if it's an epic one. But, naturaly, if you can have both then there's no problem at all, as long as it doesn't interfere with other features such as the livery editor or creating better engine sounds; and specially the horrid AI that needs extensive work. So I'd rather have PD invest more time on fixing the game's flaws over creating massive circuits just to please some of their customers.

 

[adamp93]

Anyone remember playing this in the arcade

Yes! I also had the Sega Saturn version. It still doesn't come close to tt superbikes on ps2. I've no idea how to embed videos here on my phone so find it on YouTube if you never played it. Sheer perfection. It also did the section based events you guys are talking about, where you did little races on a short section of the track, 1 sixth if I remember correctly.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Yes! I also had the Sega Saturn version. It still doesn't come close to tt superbikes on ps2. I've no idea how to embed videos here on my phone so find it on YouTube if you never played it. Sheer perfection. It also did the section based events you guys are talking about, where you did little races on a short section of the track, 1 sixth if I remember correctly.

Here you go:

​

That track looks pretty good for PS2. PD could just copy and paste it right into GT7, call it a "classic (aka standard) track" and be done with it.

 

[CeeJay]

Here you go:

​

That track looks pretty good for PS2. PD could just copy and paste it right into GT7, call it a "classic (aka standard) track" and be done with it.

How the heck did I miss this game back in the day?? I'm def going to try to track this game down, that looks like so much fun!!

 

[Whistle Snap]

YES! YES! YES! YEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!


Here's a full lap of the laser scanned version in TT Superbikes RRR I just uploaded:

 

[Griffith500]

I wonder how an FIA sanctioned race at Ronda would go down. Oh wait, the FIA would never sanction such a "circuit". Bummer, guess I'll have to avoid that once it's opened up.

Saying that, I wonder how much effort went into that whole area...
I wonder, also, what length of traditional circuit it's equivalent to.


I think we should be honouring the history and specifically the origins of motor racing more, where actual circuits, temporary or otherwise, were barely used. The only thing left like it are events such as Paris-Dakar.

I'm on the side that says I can get "normal" "expected" "demanded" "universally agreed upon by all party members" features in other games, so why shouldn't GT be different?

 

[Earth]

The risk is for the fans of the series, that PD will spend a huge amount of resources modeling a gigantic track for a car game at the exclusion of other tracks, much more suited to circuit racing.

Its a matter of perspective I suppose. I like Watkings Glen, Road America, Mosport, Sebring, Long Beach, Bristol, Charlotte, and I still havent even left North America. Would I give up 5 of my most wanted tracks from across the world for just the Isle of Man? I wouldnt even have to think about it.

While other courses may be better suited to circuit racing, Isle of Man is better suited to time trials that really test your bravery (no runoffs here), a higher sense of speed thanks to narrow roads and close scenery, and cruising.

Who is going to enjoy cruising around Waktins Glen moreso then the Isle of Man? Who is going to get a higher sense of speed at the new Hockenheim? Who is going to enjoy the challenge of learning Long Beach more then learning the Isle of Man course? Isle of Man has attributes a traditional circuit does not have.

Is it any worse then the Nurburgring in terms of racing? The Ring is 13 miles long and the long back straight is the only real passing opportunity. I've played follow the leader throughout the whole course behind a car I was quicker then because there was no where safe to pass.

A popular race distance online is 2 laps at the 24 hour Nurburgring course. Thats roughly the same amount of time it will take to complete one lap at Isle of Man. So its not completely useless as a race circuit.

The reward is potentially more sales for GT which of course means nothing to the fans complaining of poor gameplay for 2 iterations of the game.

I dont think the two are related, though. They can still improve gameplay and add this course. The track designers devoting more work to a massive project wont affect the AI and sound programmers.

So do you want gameplay issues fixed, or do you want PD to maintain sales? You seem to prefer the latter. That said, they are not mutually exclusive. I would also like to point out that GT5 and GT6 have had plenty of features, delivered or not, whose primary function seemed to be to create 'buzz'. That does not seem to be working out so well for them at the moment. So really, including another feature with little in-game utility would just be PD continuing the trend they've already set.

I prefer both. I've been very critical of PD's marketing of the series for the last few years. I didnt agree with making the LLC Rocket the poster car in most advertisements. Or touting a new physics engine and tessellation as the biggest upgrades.

Isle of Man to me is like them announcing the Nurburgring for GT4 all over again. Its huge, and advertising done right IMO. And bikes? Thats going to catch people's attention, guaranteed.

And I'll just leave this here

 

[Johnnypenso]

Is it any worse then the Nurburgring in terms of racing? The Ring is 13 miles long and the long back straight is the only real passing opportunity. I've played follow the leader throughout the whole course behind a car I was quicker then because there was no where safe to pass.

The length of the course is just one thing that makes it less than ideal for racing. The main factor is the width of the course, it's not wide enough for racing from what I can see on replays. As I've said already many times, just drive up the middle of the road and it's race over for anyone behind you. All those cute little fences and hedges beside the course will make for great scenery as you drive by but they will also be immovable objects that may as well be made of concrete in the game. Even if someone gives you room to pass, we don't have the same spatial awareness in the game to be able to easily maintain our lane on a twisting track, at speed, surrounded by concrete barriers.

It'll be a TT track, good for cruising and solo runs which is exactly where the game is headed anyway. It actually fits in perfectly with the general direction the game has been heading the since GT5, away from racing and towards solo driving or less than race pace driving. More towards the fun side of driving and away from racing which is fine by the way, just not what I'm looking for.

I dont think the two are related, though. They can still improve gameplay and add this course. The track designers devoting more work to a massive project wont affect the AI and sound programmers.

Yes they can do both, it wasn't my intention to state that the two things were mutually exclusive, just that most fans could care less if the game sells 5 or 10 million copies, they are much more interested in what happens when they press the "on" button.

 

[Griffith500]

A time trial is still very much a race of sorts. Don't let modern tastes and trends blanket the rich historic tapestry that brought us here. Don't forget, also, the recent "mission statement" regarding the FIA partnership: to make motorsport (not a specific kind of racing) as popular as football... (etc.)

Rally races are held on much narrower courses, and use staggered starts. The TT races (including sidecars) use staggered starts, also, and passing is something of an event even with bikes, mostly because of the pace; a racing line is still a racing line there, though.

The simple fact is, if you drive down the middle of the course everywhere, you're going to be slower. With a staggered start, it's in your interest to keep going as quickly as possible and, at that point, it's business as usual; if you block your immediate rival, you'll (both) be losing out to another. Overtaking works much the same as it does anywhere else, and plain blocking is unsportsmanlike no matter the width of the course!

Pad users might struggle with the precision required, but with a wheel, racing side-by-side on the Nürburgring is perfectly workable, and the roads that make up the TT course aren't that much narrower (15% or so).

Looking at it solely from the perspective of cars is a mistake, also, I feel.

 

[Grand Prix]

Could put some 1920s Bugatti 35s in the game, those would be small enough cars to have a fun (and long!) race there.

With something of this length, I would think the Circuito Piccolo delle Madonie (Targa Florio course) to be more relevant to cars. However, having the Snaefell Mountain course kills two birds with one stone, in that it is both a very long circuit and a legendary track for bikes. If they include bikes that is.

 

[Griffith500]

Could put some 1920s Bugatti 35s in the game, those would be small enough cars to have a fun (and long!) race there.

With something of this length, I would think the Circuito Piccolo delle Madonie (Targa Florio course) to be more relevant to cars. However, having the Snaefell Mountain course kills two birds with one stone, in that it is both a very long circuit and a legendary track for bikes. If they include bikes that is.

The Madonie might make it yet; PD have landed on Sicily already (Siracusa).

It's possible the course maker might make such locations redundant, but I really don't think it'll be quite up to the task of making such characterful (not to mention iconic) locations all on its own.

 

[Grand Prix]

The Madonie might make it yet; PD have landed on Sicily already (Siracusa).

It's possible the course maker might make such locations redundant, but I really don't think it'll be quite up to the task of making such characterful (not to mention iconic) locations all on its own.

I dunno if people could handle the awesomeness of having both Piccolo delle Madonie and Snaefell Mountain in the same game!

 

[Nooboogering]

A time trial is still very much a race of sorts. Don't let modern tastes and trends blanket the rich historic tapestry that brought us here. Don't forget, also, the recent "mission statement" regarding the FIA partnership: to make motorsport (not a specific kind of racing) as popular as football... (etc.)

Rally races are held on much narrower courses, and use staggered starts. The TT races (including sidecars) use staggered starts, also, and passing is something of an event even with bikes, mostly because of the pace; a racing line is still a racing line there, though.

The simple fact is, if you drive down the middle of the course everywhere, you're going to be slower. With a staggered start, it's in your interest to keep going as quickly as possible and, at that point, it's business as usual; if you block your immediate rival, you'll (both) be losing out to another. Overtaking works much the same as it does anywhere else, and plain blocking is unsportsmanlike no matter the width of the course!

Pad users might struggle with the precision required, but with a wheel, racing side-by-side on the Nürburgring is perfectly workable, and the roads that make up the TT course aren't that much narrower (15% or so).

Looking at it solely from the perspective of cars is a mistake, also, I feel.

How did you know that this is the replacement of that 'modern taste and trend' we had in the Top Gear TT to this 'rich historic tapestry' of the IOM, will bring? (PD had beef with Top Gear=TGTT dropped?)
Never thought that staggered start time trials would be an online feature for the IOM.
Did PD get the impulse to do the IOM from Goodwood just because of the history and closeness of the chase... I wonder.

 

[Griffith500]

How did you know that this is the replacement of that 'modern taste and trend' we had in the Top Gear TT to this 'rich historic tapestry' of the IOM, will bring? (PD had beef with Top Gear=TGTT dropped?)
Never thought that staggered start time trials would be an online feature for the IOM.
Did PD get the impulse to do the IOM from Goodwood just because of the history and closeness of the chase... I wonder.

The Top Gear stuff is fine, I'm not saying it shouldn't be in. I just take exception to people complaining when that kind of thing isn't in. I don't really know why it's absent now; chances are it's simply a licensing issue.

Staggered starts online are perhaps a bit of a drag, but are doable for the dedicated. An online rally mode would be amazing. I can't wait to see all the rally stages people make with Ronda, for example.

I think PD just put in what they like; whatever touches them. I remember their being impressed by the passion behind the NASCAR culture, and sure enough we get some cars and a track to play with. I suspect Goodwood, and now, potentially, the TT Mountain course, are being honoured for the same reasons.