(GTOR) | [GTTCC-3] Gran Turismo Touring Car Championship S3 - xflow1390 takes back to back titles!Finished

[Pamellaaa]

What happened to 4th?

You beat me to it.

 

[Storm_SP17]

Thought that was a golf:

Dat commentator at the end of the video.... Killing me right now!!!!

 

[Ian_83]

You beat me to it.

At least I'll get some points then.

 

[True-blue-8]

At least I'll get some points then.

i'm pretty sure there was a Toyota in front of you

 

[Storm_SP17]

One thing I want to say on the Stewarding matter, and this regards the drivers too...

Keep anything that'll offend a fellow driver strictly off the main thread. It's ok to voice as a whole some concerns that you are seeing, but outright bashing the series isn't polite and if there is a specific gripe about a specific driver, then it has to be something that is kept privately discussed.

Even if the stewards hold a conference with both the relevant parties involved in the issue at hand, that's better than a spark-up on the main thread. This will ultimately stop any negative image being reflected for not only ourselves, but for GTTCC as a series, and thus GTOR as an organisation/franchise.

 

[Pamellaaa]

This seems to be a potential cause of this weeks problems....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/a-letter-to-polyphony.324707/

 

[NinjaEvo]

This seems to be a potential cause of this weeks problems....

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/a-letter-to-polyphony.324707/

The 4 negative points taken from the post you've linked to...

• You are all of a sudden incompatible with the host
• You are stuck on a loading screen and disconnect
• You cannot be seen by anyone but you can see them (This includes not being seen by the host of the room)
• You still can't see the person you left for.
  

Had all 4 on Wednesday. Had to restart my PS3 for Number 1, Number 2 crashed my PS3 after Race 1 and both 3 & 4 happened on multiple occasions every time I quit and rejoined.​

 

[Pamellaaa]

The 4 negative points taken from the post you've linked to...

• You are all of a sudden incompatible with the host
• You are stuck on a loading screen and disconnect
• You cannot be seen by anyone but you can see them (This includes not being seen by the host of the room)
• You still can't see the person you left for.

Had all 4 on Wednesday. Had to restart my PS3 for Number 1, Number 2 crashed my PS3 after Race 1 and both 3 & 4 happened on multiple occasions every time I quit and rejoined.​

More worryingly we didn't suffer any of the 4 the week before with the same host and the same setup.

 

[NinjaEvo]

More worryingly we didn't suffer any of the 4 the week before with the same host and the same setup.

It's the updates. It's ALWAYS the updates. Seriously, how hard is it to hire a 🤬 QA team?

It's just laziness. Yes, they do provide a lot of good stuff for free, but it's no excuse for it being BROKEN. Hell, I can play any of the other racing games I have (GRID Autosport, F1 2014, MXGP and others) and not have these issues. Have you seen the news section on the game, they've even managed to break resuming championships. How the 🤬 did that happen?

I swear, if I have any connection issues for Bathurst 12hour I'll go ape...

 

[CptMadBean]

I may return, but two points needed for my return.
Point 1 true gets back on track.
Point 2 there a mid season break.

I know nothing on race 3 just felt pushed out by the two green cars.
Something else from the game update.
I not hearing the bangs just feeling them?
Did you hit me in the kinks pam? I really not feel it I was just on the out side line come the final turn.
It took a good driver to get the car back on line for the final turn, thought I did ok in till a blue honda past me.
I was just so pee off I quite the race, no way I could pass the green cars.
If I did I faced being pushed into a wall again, then take 3 of you no point trying.
My C4 with it pen had no hope in doing anything really, guess I know why buck would not try and rejoin once he got the -20bhp.

I really don't want to talk about race 2, but you told Ian you come 10th there no pens.
Then told me who can 10th in race 2 you need to come 11th then no pens for race 3.
Is it 10th or 11th Pam?

My second lap in race 3 super pole I misunstood the rules.
I thought you could do more than 1 lap, in the first lap I got stuck behind a car I could not pass.
So I give that lap up I was in tour mode past turn 4 even EVO flyed past me.
I just thought well I'll set myself up for a good exit and put in my fast lap only to get moaned at

Why in first Q it's no cars then super pole it's cars in the way?

Don't tell me it's in the rules!
But I'm sure in race 2 if there was 16 drivers I would of came 16th, it really all went bad for me in that race.

There no time for change it's the way it is, making and pulling out not really on.
Blue Pam let it run cars our fair, some tracks may suit that car and other suit another.

I Picked the c4, Ian pick the under dog.
Now the under dog looking good so members jump cars some moan the VW not got it, it needs more power.
Fact was that was wrong golf a good car, in my car choice I almost went for it.

But I got my c4 blue said if wanted the golf let him know asap, but I stuck with my C4.
As it was unfair to blue to change what I'd tested and asked for, I can't drive that vovlo.
I guess only the skilled can drive it.

 

[True-blue-8]

To me personally the most confusing thing is the penalties. No matter how hard I try and don't understand

However pam has worked hard to try make sure the pens affect each car near enough the same, making it much fairer.

As I even said in the OP, don't really need to understand it. Just adjust your power to what is called out in the room really

 

[Mikey24]

To me personally the most confusing thing is the penalties. No matter how hard I try and don't understand

However pam has worked hard to try make sure the pens affect each car near enough the same, making it much fairer.

As I even said in the OP, don't really need to understand it. Just adjust your power to what is called out in the room really

Why does so much happen when I go to sleep early?

But yeah, this is what I did. I just adjusted my power to what was given and got on with it. Advancing my strategy along the way to try and get the best result. Race 3 I was down to 260BHP! I kept myself clean from any mistakes, just take positions as people make mistakes and eventually I find myself behind Stug, so I thought "if I can keep in his slipstream I can effectively go as fast as him and then try and pressure him into a mistake" but nope, Stig being as good as he is, didn't make one error and he won the race, top notch @sibbystiggy. Well done. 👍

 

[Pamellaaa]

I know nothing on race 3 just felt pushed out by the two green cars.
Something else from the game update.
I not hearing the bangs just feeling them?
Did you hit me in the kinks pam? I really not feel it I was just on the out side line come the final turn.
It took a good driver to get the car back on line for the final turn, thought I did ok in till a blue honda past me.
I was just so pee off I quite the race, no way I could pass the green cars.
If I did I faced being pushed into a wall again, then take 3 of you no point trying.
My C4 with it pen had no hope in doing anything really, guess I know why buck would not try and rejoin once he got the -20bhp.

I really don't want to talk about race 2, but you told Ian you come 10th there no pens.
Then told me who can 10th in race 2 you need to come 11th then no pens for race 3.
Is it 10th or 11th Pam?

I think we did come together in the kink one lap, not sure which lap or when it was I still haven't had a look at the replay. I was the blue Honda anyway, I really enjoyed that race, I think on pure pace I could have been 2nd but it was a good close battle.

I don't remember telling Ian that, I may well have done and if I did then I apologise for the confusion but what I would have meant would have been worse than 10th, since I did the spreadsheet anyone finishing 1st to 10th gets half their power back, 11th or worse go back to full power.

Regarding the superpole thing that was partially my fault as mentioned earlier, I had the settings a little wrong and it should have been start in pits and race alone. This would have given people a lap to warm the tyres and one flying lap. I did say in the lobby prior to the superpole qualifying though that there should only be one lap flat out.

 

[Ian_83]

It's all your fault Pam.

 

[NinjaEvo]

You know that feeling where you see posts and all you want to do is reach through your screen and throttle the person? Yeah, seems to be happening a lot recently.

I may return, but two points needed for my return.
Point 1 true gets back on track.
Point 2 there a mid season break.

1) Didn't realise we were allowed to hold the series hostage?
2) OK, so 🤬 Storm, 🤬 Buck, 🤬 Me who all had problems, as long as one person gets back on track. Nice, real considerate...
3) There's never been a break for anyone, the only real reason is if an update screws the game up beyond belief, you need to let that one go and take it as a drop. Again, didn't realise we were allowed to HOLD THE SERIES HOSTAGE!!!

Now to address everything else going on here, you may not agree with it, but hell, someone's got to say it:

Hosting Duties: The only reason the host of a lobby should be anyone but the series director is if A) The host disconnects or B) It's intentionally set up that way because the Series directors' connection sucks. To be honest, Wednesday's shambles made it clear to me that it doesn't matter who hosts from a connections standpoint, it should be the person who runs the series. Simple.

Penalties: Why this over-complication of what was a simple system was introduced is beyond belief. Previously, for those who don't know, the system was multiples of 10 (50/40/30/20/10). However, this was felt to be too harsh, so 5's were experiemented with (25/20/15/10/5). This, in turn, was felt to be too lenient. So, then we tried 7's (35/28/21/14/7) and all were happy. Everyone at the time agreed that it was just and fair. Took away enough power to the point where success carried a penalty yet didn't doom anyone to running at the tail end of the field seconds off of the pace. Now, it's all percentages and spreadsheets... Yay... (yeah, hard to convey sarcasm on a keyboard). It's not that I don't understand percentages, it's that it's an ineffective system. Now, people sit in a lobby for 10 minutes waiting for someone to call out their pens and, like Wednesday after Race 1, the numbers given are 🤬 wrong. Seriously, I call to go back to Sevens. That way everyone knows what they are doing and can calculate their own. If they can't, then I get to have fun mocking them for a lack of basic arithmatic skills.

Just my opinion, but I've said it before and I'll say it again, going Back to Basics is the way forward.

 

[Ian_83]

I may return, but two points needed for my return.
Point 1 true gets back on track.
Point 2 there a mid season break.

I know nothing on race 3 just felt pushed out by the two green cars.
Something else from the game update.
I not hearing the bangs just feeling them?
Did you hit me in the kinks pam? I really not feel it I was just on the out side line come the final turn.
It took a good driver to get the car back on line for the final turn, thought I did ok in till a blue honda past me.
I was just so pee off I quite the race, no way I could pass the green cars.
If I did I faced being pushed into a wall again, then take 3 of you no point trying.
My C4 with it pen had no hope in doing anything really, guess I know why buck would not try and rejoin once he got the -20bhp.

I really don't want to talk about race 2, but you told Ian you come 10th there no pens.
Then told me who can 10th in race 2 you need to come 11th then no pens for race 3.
Is it 10th or 11th Pam?

My second lap in race 3 super pole I misunstood the rules.
I thought you could do more than 1 lap, in the first lap I got stuck behind a car I could not pass.
So I give that lap up I was in tour mode past turn 4 even EVO flyed past me.
I just thought well I'll set myself up for a good exit and put in my fast lap only to get moaned at

Why in first Q it's no cars then super pole it's cars in the way?

Don't tell me it's in the rules!
But I'm sure in race 2 if there was 16 drivers I would of came 16th, it really all went bad for me in that race.

There no time for change it's the way it is, making and pulling out not really on.
Blue Pam let it run cars our fair, some tracks may suit that car and other suit another.

I Picked the c4, Ian pick the under dog.
Now the under dog looking good so members jump cars some moan the VW not got it, it needs more power.
Fact was that was wrong golf a good car, in my car choice I almost went for it.

But I got my c4 blue said if wanted the golf let him know asap, but I stuck with my C4.
As it was unfair to blue to change what I'd tested and asked for, I can't drive that vovlo.
I guess only the skilled can drive it.

Thank you @CptMadBean 👍

Hopefully the confusion will be cleared up and the lobby settings made correct. I have confidence in the series hosts to iron out the little issues and concrete the race format and rules once and for all.

I'd rather not discuss your race 3 incidents here, but I did pm you about them the other day. Basically I don't think Pam was at fault for the lap 5 kink incident, but you were roughed up a bit prior to lap 5 and I bet that you were driving while slightly frustrated. I know that I would be.

I know what you and the C4 are capable of, I watch you while we're practicing and I think that I can identify a possible problem.... In practice, there are far less people on track, less urgency to get the lead and therefore less incidents. Come race day, things go bananas and before we know what's happening someone has forced themselves alongside and you're travelling 3 wide towards a chicane. Someone needs to be the better driver and back off otherwise there will be a shunt, the problem is that everyone wants to be the hero and get through the turn first.

Another great example was Mondays endurance race. There were hardly any issues to speak of and that's because after 10 laps the field was spread out and we could concentrate on our racing. There weren't 3 cars fighting for the fastest line through a chicane. It was easy.

@sb360 can you please pm me with info regarding the success penalty and try to explain it in simple terms showing me how it works exactly. Or even post it in the thread might be better. I'm sure that you've got it all figured out, but you are probably the only person that understands how it works. Even true-blue is lost and his name is on the op. It would be nice if a few more of us could grasp the figures and be able to calculate what penalty we will be running in a particular scenario. Cheers.

 

[Ian_83]

It's the updates. It's ALWAYS the updates. Seriously, how hard is it to hire a 🤬 QA team?

It's just laziness. Yes, they do provide a lot of good stuff for free, but it's no excuse for it being BROKEN. Hell, I can play any of the other racing games I have (GRID Autosport, F1 2014, MXGP and others) and not have these issues. Have you seen the news section on the game, they've even managed to break resuming championships. How the 🤬 did that happen?

I swear, if I have any connection issues for Bathurst 12hour I'll go ape...

I don't blame the updates as such.

I think that there are underlying issues with the game and also poor servers. I say this because there are always issues no matter which update version we're playing on, or when.

The reason that it appears to be the update braking the game is pretty simple. Following an update, more people are playing the game , checking out the dlc and this is putting more strain on the already poor servers. Give it a couple of weeks and the issues will become less, until the next update and another increase in users on the servers.

Sony and PD need to get their act together, because it is a shambles and always has been.

From my experience, the game servers hate anyone that has a high ping, or an unstable ping. If I share my internet with my girlfriend while playing GT6 I too experience problems. I also had problems with my old isp, the connection was incredibly fast but the ping would spike and cause me to lag and /or disconnect.

That doesn't explain why people can't see each other on track though, which is the single most annoying problem in the game. I have no idea how that happens, or how to cure it, other than trying different lobby settings, like reducing the race quality slightly or changing the lobby to a fixed host. I'm really lost on that one.

 

[Pamellaaa]

@Ian_83 I will post a full explanation shortly.

 

[True-blue-8]

having problems with our local garage, looks like might have to go to court :/


Also one big problem, listen guys.
I appreciate everything pam and ninja has done. It's been a huge help.
However if people are having queries and confusion can they please direct them to me. Pam and ninj are helping out but end of the day I've put the last year into this and got it running. I've tried to back of for some fun but when there are problems others are being consulted, I then have to be running around after people as they direct it to others. End of the day i'm still running it and if there are problems can they please be directed to myself, that way there wont be chaos from numerous directions. If people don't want to then i'll step down.


Hope this makes sense and hasn't come across in the wrong way to stewards, drivers and lurkers?.................

 

[Pamellaaa]

OK @Ian_83 , current penalty situation is as follows:

For 1st place you get a 9% power reduction, 2nd is 7%, 3rd is 5%, 4th is 3% 5th is 1%.

After race 1 these penalties are applied and that is the spec we race with for race 2. After race two anyone who had a penalty and finishes in the top 10 gets their penalty halved whilst anyone outside the top 10 goes back to full power regardless of penalty, after this halving is completed the penalties are applied again.

This might be easier with some examples so lets use the Volvo: You win race 1 in the Volvo and it loses 9% power taking it down from 310 to 282 (the spreadsheet rounds to the nearest whole BHP as that is all GT6 will let us work with but calculations are done to a greater degree of accuracy), after race two if the Volvo is in the top 10 it gets half the power back taking it to 296, if it fails to make the top 10 it goes right back to 310. So if the Volvo wins race 1 it goes from 310 to 282, if it then wins race 2 it goes from 282 back to 296 and then the 9% penalty is applied to give it 269 for race 3. If you win race 1 and then come 6th you go back to 296 and then no further penalties are required.

The reason that the simple penalties have evolved into this system is because a fixed number system (7, 14, 21, 28, 35 for example) simply doesn't work when cars have different power levels. You take 35BHP from the Volvo and it is only losing 11.3%, you take the same amount from the BMW and it is 12.5% that is a reasonably significant difference but even more importantly under this system a Volvo with full penalty is still only 5BHP down on a full power BMW, reverse that situation and the BMW is 65BHP down, IMO percentages in one form or another is the only fair way to hand out penalties in a series which has different power levels for different cars.

The reason for the penalties being halved and then reapplied is because a decision was made early on to have cumulative penalties but it was felt that just adding them straight onto each other could be a little harshexcessive, it was then suggested (by me IIRC) that we halve the penalty for the top 5 before reapplying the penalty. This worked as it lessened the impact of the cumulative scores nicely but had an unfortunate side effect that @xflow1390 pointed out in that if you had a penalty from race 1 and were running 4th or 5th you had a major incentive to drop back to 6th to get your power back. Because of this we decided that anyone finishing top 10 gets their power penalty halved to minimise the tendency to drop back deliberately.



If it is decided that things need to be simplified then the easiest way to do it would be to drop the cumulative aspect all together and simply having 9, 7, 5, 3, 1 percentage penalties applied after each race. Personally I like the cumulative aspect of the system that we have now, if its agreed that the current system is fair then its exactly the same amount of work doing it the current way as it would be to do it how I have outlined above. I think there is always going to need to be someone in lobby shouting out the penalties as even when there is a fixed BHP number reduction someone will get it wrong/not know the numbers/forget where they finished/etc etc etc. Admitedly I made a mistake on this yesterday by looking at Q results rather than race results because I had changed lobby settings but ultimately that was my mistake rather than a flaw with the penalty system, it could just have easily happened under any other system because nothing is going to work if its based on incorrect results

I have tried to explain this as best I can, if anyone has any questions or would like anything clarifying I will do my best to help out, it might easier to give specific sets of results that you would like to query if any additional information is required.

TL;DR : In my opinion the current penalty system is fair and doesn't need changing.

 

[Ian_83]

Thank you Pam. That helps.

I won race 3 at Rome, so on that basis what will happen next week before and after race 1?

@True-blue-8 - are we having a mid-season break or not? I thought that this was confirmed before the season began but obviously Ninja isn't too happy.

 

[Pamellaaa]

Thank you Pam. That helps.

I won race 3 at Rome, so on that basis what will happen next week before and after race 1?

@True-blue-8 - are we having a mid-season break or not? I thought that this was confirmed before the season began but obviously Ninja isn't too happy.

Glad to be of assistance

Winning race 3 under the current system will mean that you have a 9% penalty (282BHP) for race 1 next week. This race 1 penalty isn't cumulative though and will be completely removed before the standard system is applied for the rest of the meeting.

 

[NinjaEvo]

Thank you Pam. That helps.

I won race 3 at Rome, so on that basis what will happen next week before and after race 1?

@True-blue-8 - are we having a mid-season break or not? I thought that this was confirmed before the season began but obviously Ninja isn't too happy.

It's not that I'm not happy (I'm not, but that's not the point) it's that it's not fair. I've made the comparison before when Yuc was 2nd in the championship and couldn't make the penultimate round of the season. The round wasn't cancelled, instead he took it as a drop. This, as far as I'm aware, was the primary reason drop scores were introduced. It was debated before Season 2 if drops should be removed, but this was the reason for keeping them, in the scenario where someone has to miss a round.

 

[True-blue-8]

Thank you Pam. That helps.

I won race 3 at Rome, so on that basis what will happen next week before and after race 1?

@True-blue-8 - are we having a mid-season break or not? I thought that this was confirmed before the season began but obviously Ninja isn't too happy.

it wasn't confirmed mate just said we'd see as we got nearer. however if it's the one week that will be unable to attend race will go on. we've always carried on and won't alter for one person, especially with how things are at the moment

 

[xflow1390]

@True-blue-8 whats the wet weather settings for the lobby if it is wet? Surface water etc?

Are you going to have the room set to differant % or water depending on how bad the weather is IRL? Ie if it's a light drizzle have 10% and heavy showers 50%?

Also 100% rain/water is very bad aquaplaining.

 

[True-blue-8]

@True-blue-8 whats the wet weather settings for the lobby if it is wet? Surface water etc?

Are you going to have the room set to differant % or water depending on how bad the weather is IRL? Ie if it's a light drizzle have 10% and heavy showers 50%?

Also 100% rain/water is very bad aquaplaining.

yep, pretty much mate. However it looks out of the window that will be tried to replicate as much as possible. I'll try make surface water a bit less than what we can see though as it will help prevent a mass pile up lol

 

[xflow1390]

yep, pretty much mate. However it looks out of the window that will be tried to replicate as much as possible. I'll try make surface water a bit less than what we can see though as it will help prevent a mass pile up lol

Nice one 👍
So is 50% the max amount? Would like to know for testing

Also regarding race 2 and tyres, under what circumstances do we not have to use 2 compounds?

 

[True-blue-8]

Nice one 👍
So is 50% the max amount? Would like to know for testing

Also regarding race 2 and tyres, under what circumstances do we not have to use 2 compounds?

I'm going to say 80% max, that's if it's hammering down. Makes it challenging but still safe. However so far looks dry for Wednesday

A pit stop will still be required regardless. If it's in inter conditions then the two compounds won't be needed. If it does become dry enough then changing from inter/wet to softs is good enough. however if dry tyres ran all race, then both will be required

Sorting points etc out now. Going to give a pretty strict debrief as everyone is feeling the tension and how serious this is. It isn't. It's a game, let's relax.

 

[Mikey24]

For once I'm actually hoping it tosses it down in Britain!

 

[True-blue-8]

Just remember it will be equivalent to the following (GMT)

Race 1 - 13:00-14:00
Race 2 - 15:00-16:00
Race 3 - 17:00-18:00

So we should get a good idea of the settings beforehand