GTP Cool Wall: 1990-1996 Renault 19 16V

[MoLiEG]

Almost cool.

Meh.

 

[Wiegert]

Yes, but the Camry still has more power. It still exists.

So what?

No, really. Where's the relevance in that fact? A larger motor in a larger, more mundane car producing a greater amount of power while not being terribly quick itself. Am I supposed to hold a Camry in higher regard because its power stats trump something else?

We have to take it into consideration when judging the coolness of other cars.

Actually, no. We don't have to.

And coolness is predominantly based on aesthetics. So I don't know why this irrelevant power comparison between two wholly different cars/engines matters so much.

If the Renault was still faster to 60 than a Camry with 50 more horses, when didn't they just put a bigger, more powerful engine in the Renault so it could be both light and powerful? The fact that they didn't makes it uncool.

Why does it need to be more powerful when it's more than capable of outpacing a "sports Camry" in the first place?

One car being more powerful than another shouldn't even be a defining factor when it comes to coolness. It just sounds like baseless nitpicking along with the other excuses.

 

[Leggy1]

So we are excluded from ability to own a Camry

Although we dont mind

 

[Roo]

@Roo and @Clark also voted this car uncool, I suspect it was not because of the poor horsepower figure and would be interested in seeing what the reason is.

My uncool vote had nothing to do with power. I didn't know how much power it made until I read the OP; 135bhp from an early 90s hatch/small saloon is perfectly respectable.

Clark nailed it with this:

Just think it has always had an image problem for me, too many were owned by the type of person who would chav it up a bit.

Without trying to sound really poncy, they have too much of whiff of council estate to them.

That's why I voted it uncool; even the BTCC connection couldn't save it. Stock, it looks like it could appear on a Max Power* cover - and that's just not cool. The engine's output is irrelevant - even if it was V8 propelled and RWD, in that body it could never be cool (and in the case of a V8 19, I suspect that's the argument the V8 fans would put forward for voting it uncool anyway).

I actually quite like the looks of the regular 19, particularly the Phase 1.

*Ironically.

 

[Wiegert]

@Roo A justifiable reason which I considered before voting. Although chavved up models appear to be in a much smaller minority nowadays compared to a decade ago.

It's an image that will prove difficult to shrug off, but I feel it's just reached the point where I don't automatically think of it as a council estate chav magnet, and more of a modern classic that owners will avoid ruining with tasteless mods.

 

[JMoney]

By your supremely flawed "power over everything" logic, things like an Elise aren't a sports car.

I actually like the Elise a lot; it's an exotic you can get for less money than a Corvette. The Elise is MR, not FF like the Renault.

And I don't have "power over everything" logic. Insert straw man. I'm only arguing on the basis of power right now because that's what everyone criticizes me for. The Renault is also FWD, which I would say is a bigger factor for it's uncoolness.

So that we're on the same page, you've got an (admittedly, British) man waving a giant American flag as your avatar, you drive the quintessential American vehicle (in "Freedom Edition" no less), and you're arguing that a car can't be cool if it wasn't sold in the US?

A car not being sold here makes it less cool, it's doesn't make it decidedly uncool. Like I said, I voted cool on the Renault R8. It had less power than this and also wasn't sold here. It's cool because of the rear-engined drivetrain. I don't know how to stress this enough; power is not the only factor I vote on. Yet just about everyone who challenges my opinion accuses me of voting that way. Every frickin' time I vote uncool and cite power as just one of the reasons. By your logic, I should have voted SZ on the 1000hp Veyron. Did I?

Stop accusing me of having an invalid, illogical, ignorant, V8 and American-centered opinion. That's not true and all of you know it.

No, really. Where's the relevance in that fact? A larger motor in a larger, more mundane car producing a greater amount of power while not being terribly quick itself. Am I supposed to hold a Camry in higher regard because its power stats trump something else?

Actually, no. We don't have to.

And coolness is predominantly based on aesthetics. So I don't know why this irrelevant power comparison between two wholly different cars/engines matters so much.

I only brought up the Camry because someone stated that 134hp in a 90's sedan was a lot for the time. I was proving that false.

 

[Liquid]

I only brought up the Camry because someone stated that 134hp in a 90's sedan was a lot for the time. I was proving that false.

The first mention of power in this thread is you describing the 19 as powerless. We've already gone over how power figure alone is an indication of nothing.

 

[Leggy1]

Stop accusing me of having an invalid, illogical, ignorant, V8 and American-centered opinion. That's not true and all of you know it.

That is how it seems to a lot of people on here.

And although it is somewhat amusing, the avatar doesn't help.

 

[Turtle]

The Renault is also FWD, which I would say is a bigger factor for it's uncoolness.

Man, you know, you're right. I wanted to say the Renault 19 is cool, but it drives the front wheels, how uncool. I'm sure anyone with a grasp on what makes a car cool would surely agree.

 

[Sage Ages]

What exactly do any of these things have to do with coolness?

"A lot of power" is more than 500hp.

"Oh my God, this piece of 🤬 is so slow."

 

[DK]

JMoney's butthurt makes me wish I voted SZ rather than cool.

 

[Cano]

Stop accusing me of having an invalid, illogical, ignorant, V8 and American-centered opinion. That's not true and all of you know it.

No one said it's invalid.

 

[Bo]

illogical, ignorant, V8 and American-centered opinion.

Well if you come out with such bizarre statements that pretty much fit that definition, and continually dodge serious questions about such points, what are we supposed to think of you?

Anyway, solid cool for me.

 

[JMoney]

serious questions

 

[Sage Ages]

I still haven't figured out what power has to do with coolness.

 

[JMoney]

I still haven't figured out what power has to do with coolness.

Because speed is a factor that has a positive correlation with coolness, and power has a positive correlation with speed.

 

[Sage Ages]

Because speed is a factor that has a positive correlation with coolness, and power has a positive correlation with speed.

So average performance is automatically uncool?

and power has a positive correlation with speed.

So does weight.

 

[Legro]

Because speed is a factor that has a positive correlation with coolness, and power has a positive correlation with speed.

Okay... Still don't agree with that. But how does the drivetrain affect to coolness?

 

[AlvaroF]

Because speed is a factor that has a positive correlation with coolness, and power has a positive correlation with speed.

How can two statements be so wrong... Going fast in public roads is dangerous and can get you killed, therefore everything but cool.

The correlation power/speed is just stupid. There's so much more to it than just powerrrr

 

[JMoney]

Okay... Still don't agree with that. But how does the drivetrain affect to coolness?

Because RWD or 4WD is generally faster (meaning they will handle better and take corners faster) than FWD cars.

So average performance is automatically uncool?

No because there are many other factors besides speed (notice how I said "A factor"?) that affects coolness. Otherwise I would have voted uncool on the Renault R8. How about you give some thought to my past votes before you jump to a conclusion?

So does weight.

Yes, but to a lesser extent. Having better power instead of better weight will get you straight-line speed, which where I live is preferable to corner speed, which is what you get with better weight than power.

How can two statements be so wrong... Going fast in public roads is dangerous and can get you killed, therefore everything but cool.

First of all, I never mentioned public roads. There are these places called race tracks, and they are quite fun to drive fast on legally. Secondly, going fast on public roads is not always dangerous. It only becomes dangerous when you don't have control of your car.

The correlation power/speed is just stupid.

Oh, is that so? Then explain to me how a 385-hp Porsche 911 will go 188 mph, a Bugatti with 1,000-hp will go over 250, and a 1200-hp Hennessey will hit 270. Like I said, there are other factors like weight and aerodynamics, but having higher horsepower will make you go faster.

Are you seriously suggesting that less power equals more speed? Or...is the statement stupid just because I said it?

There's so much more to it than just powerrrr

*power

 

[Zenith]

mrehmrehmreh

Is White and Nerdy a disease? Have you been infected?

Please don't go around and share your opinions with the general public. I don't want to be associated with you when people find out that I'm a car person.

There's so much more to driving and cars than outright speed. I learned this about a year after I got into cars, you know, when I was 6.

 

[Sage Ages]

So, this is uncool because it's not something it clearly isn't supposed to be? I would understand if it was meh, but your expectations are a bit unusual.

 

[Ingram]

Because RWD or 4WD is generally faster (meaning they will handle better and take corners faster) than FWD cars.

False. RWD or 4WD does not guarantee that a car will corner faster, and it certainly doesn't guarantee it will be more fun to drive, which is far more important (and cooler) than simply going fast in straight lines.

Oh, is that so? Then explain to me how a 385-hp Porsche 911 will go 188 mph, a Bugatti with 1,000-hp will go over 250, and a 1200-hp Hennessey will hit 270. Like I said, there are other factors like weight and aerodynamics, but having higher horsepower will make you go faster.

An Abrams tank has 1500hp, but only does 47mph. Power is not the be-all and end-all of performance. Also, according to The Cool Wall the Hennessey is 'vanilla' and the Veyron is 'uncool', so please tell me how power makes a car cool?

 

[Liquid]

power has a positive correlation with speed.

So does weight, suspension, tyres, differential, aerodynamics, grip, drag, driver skill... need we go on?

 

[JMoney]

@Zenith I'm sure you fooled everyone with that hilarious misquote...did your post have anything to do with the Renault 19? Or coolness at all?

Is White and Nerdy a disease? Have you been infected?

No, white is a color and nerdy is an adjective. But I am a Caucasian.

Please don't go around and share your opinions with the general public. I don't want to be associated with you when people find out that I'm a car person.

I wouldn't worry about that, I don't plan on visiting the California Bay Area anytime soon.

There's so much more to driving and cars than outright speed. I learned this about a year after I got into cars, you know, when I was 6.

I think I figured that out after playing NFSIII. I would have been about five or so.

False. RWD or 4WD does not guarantee that a car will corner faster, and it certainly doesn't guarantee it will be more fun to drive, which is far more important (and cooler) than simply going fast in straight lines.

That's why I said "generally". Not "guaranteed".

An Abrams tank has 1500hp, but only does 47mph. Power is not the be-all and end-all of performance. Also according to The Cool Wall, the Hennessey is 'vanilla' and the Veyron is 'uncool', so please tell me how power makes a car cool?

I already explained that. Power is only one of the factors.

So does weight, suspension, tyres, differential, aerodynamics, grip, drag, driver skill... need we go on?

No, I agree.

 

[Sage Ages]

I still don't get it. If it's a "boring 90's sedan", shouldn't it be meh?

 

[Cano]

need we go on?

Of course. Where would entretainment be if we stopped?

 

[Ingram]

That's why I said "generally". Not "guaranteed".

True you did. But then you contradict yourself when you go on to say,

Because RWD or 4WD is generally faster (meaning they will handle better and take corners faster) than FWD cars.

Next:

I already explained that. Power is only one of the factors.

Yes, but then you also quite clearly said,

having higher horsepower will make you go faster.

You have some reason within your arguments, and then go on to make points (which in the second instance, you were even kind enough to express in a bold typeface) which not only go some way towards contradicting what you've said, but also make you seem just a little bit silly.

If you worded some arguments more carefully, you probably wouldn't recieve the same backlash every time you click the 'Post Reply' button.

Although trying not to dismiss a car simply because of the country it is from, or calling a car ugly before giving it a second glance would probably help too...

 

[Wiegert]

I still don't get it. If it's a "boring 90's sedan", shouldn't it be meh?

If it happened to be anything other than FWD, perhaps.

 

[JMoney]

You have some reason within your arguments, and then go on to make points (which in the second instance, you were even kind enough to express in a bold typeface) which not only go some way towards contradicting what you've said, but also make you seem just a little bit silly.

I'm not seeing the contradiction, but it only sounds silly because I have to explain what more power will give a car....

Although trying not to dismiss a car simply because of the country it is from, or calling a car ugly before giving it a second glance would probably help too...

Yeah, but I still think it's ugly.

I still don't get it. If it's a "boring 90's sedan", shouldn't it be meh?

I wouldn't think so if you voted cool. So why do you guys think it's cool? All we've been doing is discussing my opinion of it's uncoolness.