GTP Cool Wall: 2009 Pagani Zonda Cinque

2009 Pagani Zonda Cinque

  • Total voters
    127
  • Poll closed .
Tyger
The rest of us respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree
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That's how the 'other side' feels about people who do vote favourably on such cars.

Tyger
but you are welcome to abstain from voting for such cars
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Members are also welcome to not abstain. Asking members to not vote because it 'skews' results is poor form. Remember the McLaren F1 poll?

Tyger
as I often do for my own reasons.
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Entirely your prerogative and as stated earlier, is to be respected by all members.

Tornado
"We respect your opinions, but we'd prefer if you didn't express them any longer so our opinions hold more weight instead."
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Is that... Cool Wall fascism...?
 
Tyger
For the people still voting SU because very limited/prototype/racecar, could you please just not vote instead of skewing the poll for everyone else? We got the message, such cars are still polled, just don't vote on them. You really made your point way back. The rest of us respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree, but you are welcome to abstain from voting for such cars, as I often do for my own reasons.
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No, go away. What is it that makes your opinion more legitimate than my own?
 
Tyger
The rest of us respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree.
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Who is this "rest of us"? I don't see anyone else actively trying to discourage people whose votes don't correspond with their own from voting altogether. Probably because anyone else would realise that, by now, such a demand would come across arrogant rubbish in these threads.

You're not the master of the Cool Wall. But you'd do well to get over it.



Uncool... The car. A tasteless LE compared to the earlier Zondas.
 
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Tyger
For the people still voting SU because very limited/prototype/racecar, could you please just not vote instead of skewing the poll for everyone else? We got the message, such cars are still polled, just don't vote on them. You really made your point way back. The rest of us respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree, but you are welcome to abstain from voting for such cars, as I often do for my own reasons.
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I'm reading this as sarcasm. Please, please tell me it's sarcasm.

Uncool. In spite of its rarity, I would vote the earlier C12 S a solid Cool, and probably it's 7.3L later version. But this one? Nope, not a chance. It's as if Horacio saw the weekly-special-edition Bugatti approach and thought the World's Most Expensive Audi TT was something worth emulating.
 
Wayyyy cooler than a modern Ferrari or Lamborghini, and the original may even eek a cool vote from me, despite it being a modern super car, but this is the special version of a special version of a special version, and that's uncool.
 
SlipZtrEm
Uncool. In spite of its rarity, I would vote the earlier C12 S a solid Cool, and probably it's 7.3L later version. But this one? Nope, not a chance. It's as if Horacio saw the weekly-special-edition Bugatti approach and thought the World's Most Expensive Audi TT was something worth emulating.
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This 100%

Great cars no doubt, but the later ones are just tacky.
 
Tyger
For the people still voting SU because very limited/prototype/racecar, could you please just not vote instead of skewing the poll for everyone else? We got the message, such cars are still polled, just don't vote on them. You really made your point way back. The rest of us respect your opinions but don't necessarily agree, but you are welcome to abstain from voting for such cars, as I often do for my own reasons.
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Wow. Post of the year material right there.
 
The Zonda is one of few supercars that almost scrape themselves out of uncoolness. The earlier versions were bought by enthusiasts who probably liked the idea of a V12 Italian supercar that wasn't a Lamborghini or a Ferrari and loved the attention to detail that comes from a car built from one man's passion and not a boardroom-led collaboration. These later special editions just scream of "lets throw lots of carbon fibre at it and sell it to rich idiots who've decided jump on the bandwagon now Pagani have built up a respectable luxury-brand name". You can't blame the guy for chasing the dollar, but his cars are no longer cool.

Tyger
but you are welcome to abstain from voting for such cars, as I often do for my own reasons.
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Why bother abstaining? If you have an opinion on something why not voice it? The point of the cool wall isn't to get certain cars into certain predetermined categories. It's for people to voice their opinions on a car and debate it's coolness merits. It's a discussion forum, not a closed-ballot election.
 
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Vegard
The Zonda R used a highly strung, 6 liter V12. The 7.3 in this car is a tuned version of the 650 hp Roadster F Clubsport engine, not a detuned R engine.
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Oh, my bad. I thought it used the Zonda R engine.
 
I do love the Zonda but, it's one of those special editions which is nothing more than some fancy paint, I like the colours but it's pointless making such small limited models for one special colour, add in the Need For Speed connection and you get a seriously uncool car.
 
OK folks got things way more in a twist than I thought they would. Firstly, yes everyone is entitled to an opinion but this SUBRC thing is not an opinion on the car, it's an opinion on the inclusion of such cars in the thread, which isn't what is being polled or the thread is about. Unless you genuinely just really strongly dislike race cars or prototypes, and being car people, I would have to wonder why that would be the case.

But no, the argument has come up again and again that putting such cars up is null and void, and because they are still being polled (yes that's by the "other" people who don't believe in the SUBRC cliche, I thought that was pretty clear) the same people effectively null and void those polls anyway, by automatically leaping for the SU button. Of course that skews the polls, it's classic tactical voting based on an ulterior motive. It also smacks of ruining someone else's game because you don't like it or don't always feel a part of it.

It just seemed to me a very simple solution that if anyone doesn't 100% agree with the inclusion of a car, just don't vote, and I asked, I wasn't dictating a thing, but facile misquoting is of course a favourite hobby of some here (a career in tabloid journalism surely beckons). It's also quite ironic that people are claiming I don't respect others' opinions, yet are happy to shoot me down in flames when I express mine. Hypocrisy much?

Perhaps a good plan would be to have a separate poll on the criteria for inclusion of cars, and everyone respect the results. If it turns out I'm actually in something of a minority and most people think low-production, prototype and race cars shouldn't be included from now on, I can dig that :)
 
@Tyger People voting SU on cars like this aren't doing it because they want to see them gone from the polls, they're doing it because they think they're seriously uncool. Is that so hard to understand?

I for one think that race cars and very limited production cars are very, very uncool. But I also enjoy having those cars in the cool wall, because they can generate interesting discussion and I almost invariably learn more about them.
 
I've already abstained from the majority of race car polls since I can't rightly measure their coolness in tandem with other road-going models. Though if I did bother to vote, I'd just do so and not bother adding a "SUBRC" post that adds little else to the thread. If someone isn't happy with any vote lower than Meh on race cars/prototypes/limited run supercars, then that's their problem to deal with.

It's not like I go out of my way to suggest that other people would do well by following my lead and withholding their votes because it would otherwise skew the voting balance out of my favour. I just flat-out ignore it since, you know, this whole CW format hardly qualifies as serious business.
 
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Just flip the logic a moment:

"Okay, guys we get it. You think flashy supercars are sub-zero. You rave on about them in the comments. But could you abstain from voting because it skews the results and doesn't reflect the uncool votes. Thanks."

It's entirely possible to legimately think supercars are seriously uncool without it being a spiteful vote.
 
I agree with most of what you say Wiegert but should also add it's not all about me, I never meant it to come across that way, I honestly in the larger scheme of things couldn't give a rat's hindquarters if anyone agrees with me or not, "vive le difference" is a motto I have used several times in these forums. What I was highlighting is that, and darn it still seems so simple to me, if you don't agree with a car's inclusion just don't vote on it rather than giving an automatic SU vote as some sort of, I dunno, mini protest? Because that throws the whole poll, and it's not all about one person, that's exactly my point. It makes the whole poll slightly redundant for the person who nominated the car as well as the many people who don't subscribe to the automatic SUBRC "rule".

Surely it's better to not take it too seriously and dip in when one actually has something interesting to say?

Beeble if you are right then I take back the majority of what said, but I've never got the impression that people vote SU over and over for such cars because they genuinely think they are uncool. The SUBRC meme exemplifies that. When all is said and done this is a "Like Wall" because there is no such thing as objective coolness, that's an antiquated notion. So I would be interested to know why you apparently dislike race cars and limited production run cars?
 
Liquid
Just flip the logic a moment:

"Okay, guys we get it. You think flashy supercars are sub-zero. You rave on about them in the comments. But could you abstain from voting because it skews the results and doesn't reflect the uncool votes. Thanks."

It's entirely possible to legimately think supercars are seriously uncool without it being a spiteful vote.
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Apologies for double post but it's nothing to do with "supercars" being voted uncool.
 
Tyger
I've never got the impression that people vote SU over and over for such cars because they genuinely think they are uncool.
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People vote SU over and over because they genuinely think those cars are uncool.

I don't see what's so hard about this.
 
Liquid
Replace supercar with any class of vehicle and the point still stands.
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No it doesn't. Never at any point was I discussing people disliking supercars, my point was about people automatically voting some cars a certain way because they don't really think they warrant inclusion in these polls, for various reasons. Specifically and usually race cars, low-production cars and prototypes
 
I would say a much better way to get people to stop voting the way you don't want them to would be to debate the merits of their arguments rather than to simply assume (even after having had it explained to you in the past) they are voting out of spite and that they please stop voting as a result. How many times does the justification behind SUBRC need to be explained before it sticks that maybe people think race cars are legitimately uncool? How often does the same thing need to be done for most supercars?


Certainly there are people who just jump on the train as if it were a "meme", but there are also always people who draw attention to how edgy and cool they are for being contrary to the sheep mentality they've convinced themselves is at play (see the C7-R thread for multiple people doing exactly that). "Wow, look how cool I'm being because I'm voting something different from most people so they obviously can't think for themselves." And yet no one asks them to simply stop posting, even when they make it clear that they can't defend it. Why is that?
 
Oh don't get me onto the deliberately contrary voters, but they are pretty much doing the same thing anyway :)

I agree people have argued the merits of why such cars shouldn't really be polled, but never, as far as I know, how it makes them dislike them or warrants their "Uncool" vote when their only basis seems to be "Because Racecar/y/z". Not thinking they should be polled does not equate with a car being crappy or uncool. You might as well vote SZ instead. Or just don't vote ;)
 

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