GTP Cool Wall: Volvo 240 Estate Turbo

[TheCracker]

I have full respect for you guys who think it's uncool, but don't say it's slow, because it wasn't back in the day.

Back in the day both Mercedes (280E) and Audi (100 Avant) produced estates that were in a similar ballpark performance figure wise. I just don't see anything remarkable about the 240 other than how fugly they are.

 

[Greycap]

It's not fast, a Camaro or Mustang from the same time would hit 60 in about 7 seconds.

Audi RS6 '10 isn't that quick either, more like a hopelessly slow turd because it only does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds while a Murciélago gets under four seconds. Sheesh, how can anybody drive anything that lazy?

No explanations accepted, the logic is the same. Even the percentual difference between the cars is the same. When you need to drag sports cars into the comparison to show the estate is slow it probably tells something about that estate. Like it or not, the 240 Turbo was very quick for a wagon in its time and even more so when equipped with the factory intercooler kit nobody ever mentions.

 

[Joey D]

Audi RS6 '10 isn't that quick either, more like a hopelessly slow turd because it only does 0-60 in 4.6 seconds while a Murciélago gets under four seconds. Sheesh, how can anybody drive anything that lazy?

No explanations accepted, the logic is the same. Even the percentual difference between the cars is the same. Like it or not the 240 Turbo was very quick for an estate in its time and even more so when equipped with the factory intercooler kit nobody ever mentions.

I fail to see your point. Pretty average "sports" cars of the same period were a lot faster then a family wagon with a turbo slapped on to it. The 240 isn't a fast car, it wasn't that fast back in the day and it's really not fast now. Hell I could beat it in my very average and very slow car.

 

[Delphic Reason]

And what I'm saying is, I don't care what anybody except massive gearheads (some of whom may be from Sweden) thinks about what I drive, so there is no need to explain anything.

I think you're missing the point of what makes something "cool". It has nothing to do with what one small sect (gearheads) of society thinks is cool (however misguided). It's way to easy to load up the "Cool Wall" with practically anything using that criteria.

If you have to explain to 75% of the population why you have an ugly station wagon before they understand the worth of your vehicle, it's just not cool. If it was cool, you wouldn't have to explain anything. It would speak for itself. Like all "cool" cars, in my opinion.

 

[Adamgp]

I think you're missing the point of what makes something "cool".

It's statements like this that make this whole cool wall thing a joke. Too many here think of their opinion as being a fact, when it is not.

 

[Joey D]

If you don't like the cool wall then don't participate in it, problem solved.

 

[Famine]

Too many here think of their opinion as being a fact, when it is not.

Yes it is. All opinion is fact, even if it contradicts.

 

[Adamgp]

Yes it is. All opinion is fact, even if it contradicts.

No, opion and fact are different. Opion is not fact.

 

[Delphic Reason]

It's statements like this that make this whole cool wall thing a joke. Too many here think of their opinion as being a fact, when it is not.

Would you like to explain to me what "facts" there are regarding a subjective subject like "coolness"?

If you don't like my opinion, that's for you to decide. However, if you're looking for facts in a thread dedicated to how "cool" something is, you've come to the wrong place.

 

[Famine]

No, opion and fact are different. Opion is not fact.

Opinion is though.

Here's the rub. Say I think the Ford RS200 is the best car ever made (and I do). This is clearly an opinion. But it's also fact. If someone asks "What's the best car ever made?", my answer is "The Ford RS200".

Now imagine someone else thinks that the Saab 9000 is the best car ever made (these people exist). This is clearly an opinion. But it's also fact. If someone asks "What's the best car ever made?", their answer is "The Saab 9000".

And this is the fun part. They're both right. And they're both wrong. At the same time!

 

[Adamgp]

Would you like to explain to me what "facts" there are regarding a subjective subject like "coolness"?

If you don't like my opinion, that's for you to decide. However, if you're looking for facts in a thread dedicated to how "cool" something is, you've come to the wrong place.

You seem to have misunderstood what I said. It was a reply to what you said here:

Delphic Reason
I think you're missing the point of what makes something "cool".

Where you seem to be implying that there are rules as to what makes something cool when there are not. Coolness is an opinion, not a fact.

Opinion is though.

Here's the rub. Say I think the Ford RS200 is the best car ever made (and I do). This is clearly an opinion. But it's also fact. If someone asks "What's the best car ever made?", my answer is "The Ford RS200".

Now imagine someone else thinks that the Saab 9000 is the best car ever made (these people exist). This is clearly an opinion. But it's also fact. If someone asks "What's the best car ever made?", their answer is "The Saab 9000".

And this is the fun part. They're both right. And they're both wrong. At the same time!

Opinion is not fact.

Opinions like what is the best car ever made, are personal beliefs, not facts. Opinions are personal beliefs or point of view, neither right or wrong.

 

[Lucas]

It's statements like this that make this whole cool wall thing a joke. Too many here think of their opinion as being a fact, when it is not.

So true.

Opinion is though.

Here's the rub. Say I think the Ford RS200 is the best car ever made (and I do). This is clearly an opinion.

Yes.

But it's also fact. If someone asks "What's the best car ever made?", my answer is "The Ford RS200".

It's a fact that it's your opinion. Yours. Not everyone's. There's no problem with that, but then you have Delphic Reason telling Duke how his reasoning is wrong when deciding whether a car is cool or not. Or so it looked like to me.

 

[Famine]

Lucas - and DR is right. And wrong. So is Duke. And, and this will blow the mind, so am I.

Opinion is not fact.

That's your opinion. Luckily it's mine that you're wrong. Fact!

Opinions like what is the best car ever made, are personal beliefs, not facts. Opinions are personal beliefs or point of view, neither right or wrong.

Opinions are neither right nor wrong? They're both. Simultaneously.

 

[Danoff]

Totally and completely lacking anything that resembles cool.

Yea it might be a fantastic machine. It might be a really impressive design, could last forever, make toast, and go like stink. But it's a damned volvo wagon. There isn't anything cool about that.

I think some members here have to come to terms with the fact that they can really enjoy and appreciate things that aren't cool. There's nothing remotely cool about really efficient perl code, but I appreciate it and am impressed with the work that goes into it. There's nothing cool about MATLAB, but I love it to death.

I like it != It's cool

also, and I want to make this absolutely clear

Turbo != Cool

 

[daan]

Turbos can make some things cool...

 

[Delphic Reason]

You seem to have misunderstood what I said.

Nope.

Where you seem to be implying that there are rules as to what makes something cool when there are not.

Everyone has rules as to what makes something cool. If you had no criteria for such, you would thing everything is cool, and not.

My opinion is that Duke's criteria for coolness is flawed. I'm sure his opinion of my criteria is similar. We're both right, and wrong.

Coolness is an opinion, not a fact.

It can be both, actually.

Opinion is not fact.

See above.

 

[Strittan]

LMAO at what this community has become...

 

[Greycap]

I fail to see your point.

Not a surprise. You've decided that the 240 is slow so you wouldn't see the point if I painted it bright red and put Christmas lights on it.

Pretty average "sports" cars of the same period were a lot faster then a family wagon with a turbo slapped on to it.

No 🤬 Sherlock, that's why they are sports cars. Sports cars are made to be fast, family wagons aren't but some of them still manage to be surprisingly fast. You're forgetting that nine seconds to 60 was GTI class performance of the time.

The 240 isn't a fast car, it wasn't that fast back in the day and it's really not fast now. Hell I could beat it in my very average and very slow car.

It was fast in its day for what it was. That's the trick. No doubt your modern average slow car is faster than it but 30 years of technological advance tends to do that and something would be pretty seriously wrong if that wasn't the case. As a matter of fact the 240 Turbo is still on a par at acceleration with your Cooper, might even beat it, after these 30 years. Your average slow car of the early eighties wouldn't have had a chance against the brick as it would have had something like half the power of the Volvo if even that much. Austin Metro is a good example of such a model.

It was the fastest estate in Europe in its time. Yes, the Mercedes was slightly more powerful but lacking in torque (certainly not lacking in weight) and the Audi mentioned above was nowhere near in the beginning of the eighties. Yet people decide to think it's slow.

 

[Adamgp]

That's your opinion. Luckily it's mine that you're wrong. Fact!

Opinions are not facts, period.

Opinions are neither right nor wrong? They're both. Simultaneously.

Facts can be right or wrong, opinions are neither right or wrong. Opinions are personal feelings or beliefs.

Nope.

Yep.

Everyone has rules as to what makes something cool. If you had no criteria for such, you would thing everything is cool, and not.

My opinion is that Duke's criteria for coolness is flawed. I'm sure his opinion of my criteria is similar. We're both right, and wrong.

Again you misunderstood.

It can be both, actually.

 

[Famine]

Opinions are not facts, period.

As I said, that's your opinion. And also a fact. And both right and wrong at the same time.

Facts can be right or wrong, opinions are neither right or wrong. Opinions are personal feelings or beliefs.

If someone believes that blinking makes it rain, they're not wrong?

Whew. Glad I don't live in your world. Though that's just an opinion.

 

[Joey D]

Not a surprise.

Classy dude, real classy 👍!

Get over it, the car isn't fast nor was it fast for it's time. It was quick-ish for the 1980's, I'll give it that but it was by no means fast. The Mustangs and Camaros of the day would be hardly considered fast cars and they have the 240 beat by at least 2 seconds getting to 60.

And like I said I live in the present, not the past. It's not 1984, it's 2010 I'm judging cars on how they are today...and today the 240 is just a slow, ugly brick.

 

[Adamgp]

As I said, that's your opinion. And also a fact. And both right and wrong at the same time.

Nope. Neither.

If someone believes that blinking makes it rain, they're not wrong?

They would be a nut, who is entitled to their opinion. It's their belief.

Whew. Glad I don't live in your world. Though that's just an opinion.

Glad you don't live here, thats a fact.

 

[Famine]

Nope. Neither.

The fact we disagree proves you're wrong. But it's also your opinion.

They would be a nut, who is entitled to their opinion. It's their belief.

Does blinking cause rain? No. So are they wrong? Yes? Can their opinion thus be right or wrong? Yes.

Glad you don't live here, thats a fact.

Yes it is. And an opinion at the same time. Zing!

 

[Lucas]

 

[Grand Prix]

It gets cool points because it was certainly never trying to be cool. It's an automotive icon, like the Mustang, Mini and Citroen DS. It is used in folk racing and demolition derbies for obvious reasons. It's a rear wheel drive car that can drive well in the snow, while idiots in their pick-ups and SUVs get stuck or slide into a post.

At the same time, in BC at least, it is driven by absolute morons most of the time. It has a reputation for being a "slow" and boring brick, but then, what wasn't a slow and boring brick in the early eighties?

So its not quite Sub-Zero, but most certainly cool. It's a station wagon made by vikings out of unbreakable steel, who decided to drop a turbo in it. Of course its cool.

 

[Duke]

So nobody can claim to love cars or call themselves a gearhead if they dont like this thing?

Thats as ignorant as Jeremy Clarkson stating no-one can call themselves a true petrolhead until they have owned an Alfa Romeo.

Please explain where I said that?

"Only gearheads will recognize it" != "You're only a gearhead if you recognize it".

 

[Adamgp]

The fact we disagree proves you're wrong. But it's also your opinion.
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Nope. If opinions were facts, they would be called facts.

Does blinking cause rain? No. So are they wrong? Yes? Can their opinion thus be right or wrong? Yes.

It's a belief. Neither right or wrong.

Yes it is. And an opinion at the same time. Zing!

It's a fact as far as I'm concerned. Zing!

This has gone on long enough, I'm done. Last thing I need now is another 6 page, week long interweb argument that goes nowhere.

You are entitled to your own opinion of what opinions are. 👍

Please explain where I said that?

"Only gearheads will recognize it" != "You're only a gearhead if you recognize it".

Was I talking about you specifically?

 

[Famine]

Nope. If opinions were facts, they would be called facts.

And if Volvos were Fords, they would be called Fords. Oh, wait.

You have an opinion that opinions aren't facts. I have an opinion that they are. Neither of our opinions can be factual because they disagree. Which means that your opinion that opinions aren't facts is correct and thus a fact. Which is a problem because your opinion is that opinions aren't facts, meaning your opinion is incorrect and mine is. That then causes a further problem because that means your opinion that opinions aren't facts is also a fact.

And so on. Having fun yet?

It's a belief. Neither right or wrong.

So, seriously, you think there's nothing wrong about "blinking causes rain"? C'mon now.

It's a fact as far as I'm concerned. Zing!

Exactly. Could this be your epiphany?

 

[Strittan]

The fact we disagree proves you're wrong. But it's also your opinion.

I'm more and more getting the feeling you simply enjoy being a smartass to people. No wonder your post count is sky high. That's just my opinion though.

I also find it odd a moderator can spend so much time off topic. That's however, also just my opinion.

EDIT: BTW, I'm sorryI bringed this thread further off topic than it already was.

 

[Delphic Reason]

Opinions are not facts, period.

Well, that's settled then.

Again you misunderstood.

Nope. Although, you seem to be missing the point by a country mile.

I'm glad you're at least finding some enjoyment out of this.

Having fun yet?

in a dizzying sort of way. Absolutely.