GTP WRS-Online Event 8 : What R U FoRGeTtinG P/D? - March 19, 2014

[Doodle]

(unless your name's Ti-Tech or GTP_Holland but that's the exception rather than the rule).

Unless you're on Autumn Ring. Then it's doodle time.

 

[GTP_Nail]

Is it fair for Division 3 & 4 drivers to need to compete against ringers from Division 1 & 2? Is it really fun for those guys to wipe the floor with the slower drivers? If there were one or two divisions lower than mine I would never want to race with those guys if I knew I would beat the fastest ones by a half a lap or more.

I wasn't going to say something publicly about it this week, but now it has been brought up by someone else I felt like I needed to voice my opinion.

Well....after going through and still being in it, I think it would be great if we did formalize the 2 room procedure... 1 and 2 in one....and the new guys an casual drivers ( 3 and 4) in another. I'm going to make a WAG that when Gt5 web closes there is going to be an influx of new and old drivers that will probably cause rooms A and B to be split again....flooding the current set up.

 

[oink83]

NA Lobby. We are just going with a single room for todays race. Please refer below for the room ID.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Asgg1JaA6KCwdEh1akFCMmt1WXlvMGFPaDNudlRzaEE&single=true&gid=31&range=L1:R27&output=html


Edit: Also in regards to some of the above stuff about lobbies etc,

Well....after going through and still being in it, I think it would be great if we did formalize the 2 room procedure... 1 and 2 in one....and the new guys an casual drivers ( 3 and 4) in another. I'm going to make a WAG that when Gt5 web closes there is going to be an influx of new and old drivers that will probably cause rooms A and B to be split again....flooding the current set up.

But what if there are too many from 1 & 2 for single room? As with today, look at the handicap delta between the last D2 guy and the top D3 guy. Now I'm not saying that necessarily means that that person is going to be alot faster, but point being, there is just no way to really have this setup purely because, disregarding a handful of guys that race most weeks, participation changes, and different guys run different weeks. It's just impossible to have a "perfect" formula. What we have now is as close as you can really get to the best set up. Sure sometimes it throws a fast guy in a room with "slower" drivers, but there is simply no way around that sometimes.

An additional note (and this is nothing towards you Rustic) we advertised a Stewarding spot to D3 & D4 drivers as we really don't have any stewards in those divisions. Having this would allow us to much more easily have a steward in the B room without them being alot faster than the rest of the field, and would solve this "problem". However, with the exception of Gayle, who cannot race long races, we did not have anyone come forward to be a steward. So we really have no choice, if you want to have an official race in B, but to have one of the stewards (Who will, at this point by definition be D2 or D1) join that room. At that point, are you really going to say that person should not race because they are too fast? Someone giving up their free time so that everyone here can enjoy our racing league, and ensure the race is official, and they are not allowed on track?

 

[AspecBob]

I think we should all consider ourselves lucky that we have people of comparable calibre to race with. In GT5, there were never enough people to have more than one room, so if you weren't D1 material, you'd never have a chance at winning. I didn't mind that at all, but most races were very lonely because I wasn't very good (and I've improved only very slightly since then) and all other racers were much better than me. But now I'm very excited whenever I have people to race against and it doesn't matter if it's for a podium position or for the next-to-last position.

 

[GTP_DeathStar]

Has de-tuning the one or two overly fast guys been brought up when this happens? That might make things more fun for everyone.

 

[GTP_Patrick1]

I echo what Daniel said. For us drivers in lower to mid D2 who make room A all the time, we know we are fighting for positions mid pack or lower. When we see Twissy, Bart, Andrew, Tim, Oink, Matthew and others I missed enter a race, you know that you are not getting a podium. I feel fortunate that those who are at the top will help if asked. I have been in many practices sessions with Bart, and he will always help, thus I have improved a lot in on line races though the results may not show it. The race for a single position makes it interesting to me. I also like looking at the combined results as I typically have a fairly good result as compared to everyone that raced. Al just won his first race after competing in over 100, I think Lucas has the same story. I have been racing in WRS for about a year, and finished as high as 2nd once, but that was because somehow I ended up in room B. I also got third 2 weeks ago, probably because the best drivers did not participate that week and someone ahead of me got penalized to give me third place. I just look at the race realistically, and know about what position constitutes a win for me. I would like to win some day, and maybe the chips will fall just right to allow that, but until then I will just try to get better.

 

[Gravitron]

Has de-tuning the one or two overly fast guys been brought up when this happens? That might make things more fun for everyone.

Yes, plenty of times. Most recently, Pekka (MadMax) in both B room races last week. But to start messing with power limiter can take A LOT of time to find an appropriate value. I've dropped it 15% and had it have no effect on lap time. It depends on the car, track, and driver. I've already said Hasslemoff had virtually no time for practice laps today, hence no time to mess with that.

 

[Napalm_LT]

Last week Madmax and Allibuba were a big siurprice for all in Room B becauce hosts have never race before. Just after race I was a bit angry, thought that they stole pitskaters wictory and my 3 place. I got down after a while and thought - what changed for me personaly? Nothing. As said Patrick, I know my speed and my enemys are guys with about the same handicap. Usually I am watching to pitskater and EWeinbauer. If Eeein sometimes do mistakes and we can fight, with sadness in my eyes I usually see pitskater disapering in the front. So, i fight wi5h you guys and it is not very important is it fight for victory or sixt place.
And about yesterday race. I hope I will fight for podium in Room B and was shocked when noticed what I'm in Room A. What I will do there? Of cource I changed my aim not to fight for podium but not to do bad things to these guys. Later, when EWenibauer joined to us, my aim changed again - not to be the last . Started race 11, was 10 after first corner - wow. It took about 2 or 3 laps when I was involved into accident but I didnt care about that. Later I have a good battle with Tuesday black. He was pushing me about 10 laps, was faster in every corner but couldnt overtake clearly. I was thinking how angry he was at that moment but he no one time pushing, bumping and so on. Off cource, my time due to defence were bad but for me it were best laps in all my 6 races.
When he pased me I decided not to push but just keep the place if it will be possible. But, did .5 better time in T1 and thought,- why not to do my best lap? Spooned two corners after that . Hopfully only losed time. After that decided not to push. Saw gay few secunds behind, thought it was someone of the leaders and only after finish noticed what it was Eweinbauer.
So, I finished 10 but won my race
Guys, it is just a game. Have fun...

 

[serfon]

Yes, plenty of times. Most recently, Pekka (MadMax) in both B room races last week. But to start messing with power limiter can take A LOT of time to find an appropriate value. I've dropped it 15% and had it have no effect on lap time. It depends on the car, track, and driver. I've already said Hasslemoff had virtually no time for practice laps today, hence no time to mess with that.

I had no problem with the hosts and stewards racing in the past weeks.
It is just a problem of miscommunication
I didn't know whether he was "racing" or not. no quali
I didn't know he had no practice.

You don't need to change anything on power limiters and other stuff, just clear communication.

 

[serfon]

Last week Madmax and Allibuba were a big siurprice for all in Room B becauce hosts have never race before. Just after race I was a bit angry, thought that they stole pitskaters wictory and my 3 place.

I had no problems with them, I enjoyed my race trying to compete with them.
Yesterday I was racing with the constant thinking, is he a real competitor or is he just participating with no intentions to interfere. Even when I had him on my tail, I was thinking this.
I wonder what would have happened if there was another Div2 or 1 driver participating yesterday, would they both have started from the back and having risks of collision on overtaking the whole pack?
Again, i have no problem with the fast guys (2.5 sec on fastest and 4 sec on slowest in the pack) to race with us, as long as we know their intentions and that they run qualifications.

 

[Zapphoid]

AU Room 1472-6399-8451-1926-9539

 

[LittlePaul78]

Great fun last night, really enjoyed the race. Dropped down to last on lap 3 due to being too eager on the throttle out of turn 5, so it was fun coming back through the field to finish 6th.

Thanks to @r0msii for a great battle on lap 13, I enjoyed spending the whole lap side-by-side with you!

 

[GTP_DeathStar]

It appears that some people are not seeing it from my point of view, so I will throw out a few real world examples.

• Last year Sebastian Vettel won an obscene amount of races and polls in Formula 1. Last week in Melbourne he did not even get a chance to get on the poll because he didn't advance enough during the qualify session. When his time popped up on the board the crowd cheered like no other.
• In NASCAR people that race in Cup that occasionally move down to Nationwide are known as Buschwackers. That is not a term of endearment and many people in the sport think they are taking away from the regular Nationwide drivers. The only reason they do it is to bring in more money to Nationwide...obviously there is no money here in the WRS.
• College players never need to play games against professional athletes.

• MLB will occasionally move players down to the farm teams, but only if that person is struggling and cannot compete with the Major players or they are rehabbing an injury.

Maybe these examples will shed some light on the subject and more people will see where I am coming from. I'm a slow driver and I don't see myself competing for a win any time soon; but what happens down the line when I do get faster and all of my wins are taken by ringers that are 10x faster than me? I know winning isn't everything, but it would be nice if we adhere to the Divisional system and give the lower Divisions a shot at winning more races.

 

[skyline1683]

I can understand what your saying but the simple fact is most of the moderators/hosts of the race rooms are div 1 or div 2 and we simply can't say you can host the room but must not race as your to quick for us.
The only solution is to have people step up from division 3-4 and say il be a moderator/host so D1&D2 guys are not taking easy wins.
I get put in room A-EU now and yes racing the likes of twissy,pasm,oink,doodle I know I'm not going to win but I take great pleasure from the fact 3 months ago I'd be 1-2 seconds per lap slower now I've been racing them I'm 0.5 a lap slower .
It's about enjoying the game win or lose .

 

[Oshawa-Joe]

D3-4 guys, step up. WRS needs your help. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

 

[RodrigoDLL]

It appears that some people are not seeing it from my point of view, so I will throw out a few real world examples.

I see your point of view, that is not the problem. I just disagree with it completely.

Your real world examples are fine. But to compare some of the most professional forms of sports to this weekly virtual race series is unreal.

Lower your expectations and enjoy the races. Or don't and either race frustrated or don't race at all.

And of course you can always try and be a host. I know I don't have the time for that.

 

[hasslemoff]

As my name seems to be getting mentioned a few times I thought i'd make a post.

First of I was in room B as Paul (oink) wanted some sleep, he kindly set the room up as I might still struggle to make it there on time, I had changed my real life schedule earlier in the week so that I could try and be available last night just in case as we had few stewards and admins unavailable.

I thought I would race as I didnt fancy sitting by the ps3 watching everyone else race, then spending another half hour inputting results, then watching the replay all the way through as there would be no FF just to input the fastest laps and if there was an incident to review imagine the time taken to go through the replay with no FF.
At least with a steward on track we have a replay we can FF and get the results inputted quicker.

I had no problem with the hosts and stewards racing in the past weeks.
It is just a problem of miscommunication
I didn't know whether he was "racing" or not. no quali
I didn't know he had no practice.

You don't need to change anything on power limiters and other stuff, just clear communication.

Paul (oink) said in the chat that I would be starting from the back and it has me signed up on the room spilts, so if any driver is on track I would say 99.9% of the time they are racing.
The only practice I had was the few laps when I joined the lounge, I thought it best to start at the back for safety as I could give enough space in the first corner as to not interfere or take someone out. If I had qualified I could of caused more problems been in the middle or even at the front of the grid.

I parked and left the race just to make a statement, it's not fun to race against someone who is 2.5 sec faster on a lap. He stayed behind me for a couple of laps and I decided that I would retire as soon as he would pass me, and so did I.

I dont get what statement you are trying to make. I have and many people have raced in WRS in the same room as people who are a lot quicker than them for a few years.

On lap 26 when you parked up we were already 36 seconds ahead of the 3rd place car with 5 laps to go.
I had a look at the replay to see how long it took me to do the last 5 laps and it was around 8 min 15 seconds, if you had stayed on track and ran your average lap time it would of took you around 8 min 20 seconds till you finished the race. So you would of been around 5 seconds behind, but the draft on this track can help the car behind a lot to keep up.
So me finishing 40 seconds in front of 2nd place is a misconception. If I had not raced or you stayed on track you would of finished around the same margin from 2nd place.


For the record I stayed behind you because I could not get passed you.

Is it fair for Division 3 & 4 drivers to need to compete against ringers from Division 1 & 2? Is it really fun for those guys to wipe the floor with the slower drivers? If there were one or two divisions lower than mine I would never want to race with those guys if I knew I would beat the fastest ones by a half a lap or more.

I wasn't going to say something publicly about it this week, but now it has been brought up by someone else I felt like I needed to voice my opinion.

What is the difference between someone from Div 2 winning by 40 sec's and a Div 3 who would of won by around the same margin ?


Also Ringers, ive been called a few names in my time but never that I even had to google it as it has complete different meaning where I live.

 

[GTP_DeathStar]

D3-4 guys, step up. WRS needs your help. If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

A month or so ago WRP001 ask us Div 3 & 4 guys if we wanted to help with being host or steward. I volunteered but my connection is not 100% reliable all of the time. Sure, most of the time I am having less of a problem then most; but is not 100% consistent 100% of the time...so I said I would help when I can by saving replays and anything else that is needed. So I have been trying to do what I can, but nothing has gone farther than that.

 

[Zapphoid]

I do not care if fast guys join when they are hosting, I sure would not want to sit around for an hour and watch a game I like to play (yes it is a Game).
My feeling is if they are beating me then I need more practice that I have been doing and only after about 700km I feel good on a track and now I am not coming last, and when ever I have been last I always complete the race even when lapped, more practice.
Not sure how cracking a sad and parking helps.

The EU/NA race was great, thanks guys for running these.

 

[oink83]

I do also want to apologise for no official AU slot again, and not much communication regarding that race. We will have to have a think about that one, as our main AU Steward JTV has no access to the game, so apart from the very rare occasion, we have no steward to attend, and quite frequently, too few numbers regardless for an official race.

 

[Zapphoid]

I do also want to apologise for no official AU slot again, and not much communication regarding that race. We will have to have a think about that one, as our main AU Steward JTV has no access to the game, so apart from the very rare occasion, we have no steward to attend, and quite frequently, too few numbers regardless for an official race.

I did run a 20 lap race with the 4 of us the joined, I am away next week so I will not be attending so it may not run at all.

 

[oink83]

I did run a 20 lap race with the 4 of us the joined, I am away next week so I will not be attending so it may not run at all.

Nice to hear that 👍

 

[GTPCrispyOne]

All that could be said about my Wednesday debut was that I attended and (attempted) to finish the race. First, I started the race without my glasses. I only need them for far distances, but that meant I had to take my brake points more on feel than sight. And that worked...for 10 laps. A big accident took me from 12th to 9th and I was feeling pretty good about myself.

Then, I started wiping out every 🤬 5th lap or so--mostly taking T2 turn 1 too enthusiastically (and 3x on the straight before the chicane!). Each time I lost a couple of spots, and was racing someone new. That happened until I lost the whole pack.

As the person who came dead last in the A room last week I disagree. As Twissy lapped me I'm thinking OMG I'm racing Twissy :-)

I wiped out enough that I had the same reaction when @PASM passed me. "You don't get to draft him ever, so keep it classy!" Lasted about a half a lap.

Had I had another 30 secs, I think I could have finished, but it was still a positive experience. My biggest issue is consistency and this race was no different. The only way to get better is to race with better drivers. Thank you all for helping in my schooling.

 

[serfon]

First of all I want to say that English is not my mother tongue and therefore I cannot express myself as easy as I would in French or Dutch and that can lead to some misunderstanding.
Here are my thoughts on the events, those are what I was thinking on that moment. For me it's nothing personal, I just want to explain my thoughts that lead to my decision to park the car.

Paul (oink) said in the chat that I would be starting from the back and it has me signed up on the room spilts

I should have missed that, I only recall about Haasen and Siny starting from the back because they were in the qualifying but things went wrong for them with a DC and a not recording of Haasen laptime.

Again, you were not participating in the quali so I was assuming you were not competing

Voice communication as used by some other hosts is far more effective and direct, remember before quali when Hladas was on track and was asked to come into the pit.

The only practice I had was the few laps when I joined the lounge

During your practice before the race you were running 1.36.5 for several laps, I know because I was monitoring the laptimes to have a clue on where i could end on the grid after the quali.

I thought it best to start at the back for safety as I could give enough space in the first corner as to not interfere or take someone out.

I was thinking that starting at the back while you know you are at least 2 seconds faster and you will have
to overtake the whole pack had in my opinion nothing to do with safety or fear for taking someone out

If I had qualified I could of caused more problems been in the middle or even at the front of the grid.

I was thinking you were pretty well aware of your lap times and thought that it’s more exciting to start from the back and overtake everybody than starting in pole and having a boring lonesome race.

I dont get what statement you are trying to make. I have and many people have raced in WRS in the same room as people who are a lot quicker than them for a few years.

As I said in the beginning, English is not my mother tongue and perhaps the word “statement” has not the exact meaning. The fact that there is a discussion and an attempt to find a solution about it is what i wanted to achieve. The “statement” is not about faster drivers among us, i’ve had faster drivers in almost all previous races I participated in. It is just about respecting the rules (qualifying) and because of a lack or missed communication that lead me to the conclusions I made on some facts I mentioned above.

On lap 26 when you parked up we were already 36 seconds ahead of the 3rd place car with 5 laps to go.
I had a look at the replay to see how long it took me to do the last 5 laps and it was around 8 min 15 seconds, if you had stayed on track and ran your average lap time it would of took you around 8 min 20 seconds till you finished the race. So you would of been around 5 seconds behind, but the draft on this track can help the car behind a lot to keep up.
So me finishing 40 seconds in front of 2nd place is a misconception. If I had not raced or you stayed on track you would of finished around the same margin from 2nd place.

That I parked the car has nothing to do with any results I would have had, like you said I could have been second and 30 sec ahead.

What is the difference between someone from Div 2 winning by 40 sec's and a Div 3 who would of won by around the same margin ?

The difference is that the Div 2 started from the back and had to overtake everybody.

A solution is to find stewards and host from our divisions. I would be glad to help but only after I would gain some more experience, I just started some months ago and have still a lot to learn about rules and situations.


For me this case is closed and I will off course be happy to help, assist or anything else that can contribute to enhance the game pleasure.

 

[Kessil]

this is my first year in GTP racing. So far ive been figuring out your format and really haven't been trying to be in anyones way (although its tuff to do on some of these tracks).I myself want faster racers.I like to see what the top times are so I know were im at.I know if someone started putting (restrictor plates)on my car. That would suck

 

[Gravitron]

First of all I want to say that English is not my mother tongue and therefore I cannot express myself as easy as I would in French or Dutch and that can lead to some misunderstanding.
Here are my thoughts on the events, those are what I was thinking on that moment. For me it's nothing personal, I just want to explain my thoughts that lead to my decision to park the car.



I should have missed that, I only recall about Haasen and Siny starting from the back because they were in the qualifying but things went wrong for them with a DC and a not recording of Haasen laptime.

Again, you were not participating in the quali so I was assuming you were not competing

Voice communication as used by some other hosts is far more effective and direct, remember before quali when Hladas was on track and was asked to come into the pit.



During your practice before the race you were running 1.36.5 for several laps, I know because I was monitoring the laptimes to have a clue on where i could end on the grid after the quali.




I was thinking that starting at the back while you know you are at least 2 seconds faster and you will have
to overtake the whole pack had in my opinion nothing to do with safety or fear for taking someone out



I was thinking you were pretty well aware of your lap times and thought that it’s more exciting to start from the back and overtake everybody than starting in pole and having a boring lonesome race.




As I said in the beginning, English is not my mother tongue and perhaps the word “statement” has not the exact meaning. The fact that there is a discussion and an attempt to find a solution about it is what i wanted to achieve. The “statement” is not about faster drivers among us, i’ve had faster drivers in almost all previous races I participated in. It is just about respecting the rules (qualifying) and because of a lack or missed communication that lead me to the conclusions I made on some facts I mentioned above.




That I parked the car has nothing to do with any results I would have had, like you said I could have been second and 30 sec ahead.




The difference is that the Div 2 started from the back and had to overtake everybody.

A solution is to find stewards and host from our divisions. I would be glad to help but only after I would gain some more experience, I just started some months ago and have still a lot to learn about rules and situations.


For me this case is closed and I will off course be happy to help, assist or anything else that can contribute to enhance the game pleasure.

👍 Great post. Your English is great, and I appreciate the effort you put in there. Also appreciate your offer of future help, when you're ready.
If you want to read the post describing the "job", it's just been posted here.

In the future, any racing stewards will qualify with the rest of the racers. 👍 Thank you for that suggestion.

 

[GTP_Nail]

Different subject...in last night's NA race turn one first lap there was what David Hobbs would call a massive carambrolage. I was really pissed as I was the only one turned and had felt a massive hit from the rear and ended up broadsides holding up the last four or five and getting away dead last. WELL...upon reviewing the event on replay it actually happened in front of me and my evasive maneuvers and hard braking added to the mess.
It was not intentional but it violated both our no contact mantra and the racing axiom "you can't win the race in the first corner...but you can lose it". In the EU race all slipped through....but not so here. The difference was that from what I have seen in my brief racing with you guys has shown that racing manners make the difference. It was most likely a case of accordion and very unintentional contact. Next time I am limiting my exposure by queueing up and not placing my car in the position where someone elses misjudgment or over enthusiasm ruins my hopes.

Also the manners up front are better than those further down the grid where the degree of desperation increases along with experience level.....(says the new guy who was the prime attendee of a "come to Jesus" meeting held by a group of Old Heads who were a little less than impressed with my over enthusiastic and physics defying driving).

 

[AspecBob]

Well, I just had a look at the replay, and it seems that I played a role in that carambolage by being overly ambitious in my passing attempt on SINY999 and also misjudging my braking point. Sorry about that, guys. I did end up dead last after that though, even if I was able to make up a couple of places right away because a couple of people were still disentangling themselves.

I had fun in the rest of the race, making a few mistakes but only minor ones, and I was able to claw my way up to 6th position, having a few fun battles along the way.

Congratulations to Vipond for winning, and to Hector and Strop for completing the podium.

Finally, just a little word about keeping silent during quali and the race. I want to emphasize that this is not meant to point fingers at people, I am not naming anyone, and no one should feel obligated to come forward and identify themselves and say they're sorry. This is just a message to everyone, saying we should all be careful about this kind of thing.

During both quali sessions, there were people talking on their mics. During the first one, someone was talking to someone else in their home, not realizing their mic was on, and in the second one someone was explaining why they had to leave for a bit (that explanation could have waited until after quali was over). Also, when your race is over, please do not start talking before everyone's race is finished out of respect for those still running. We should wait until the timer has reached zero.

Thank you and race on

 

[Napalm_LT]

​

Qualification Procedures

• Type: Live Online Single Stint - No pits
• Length: Single out-lap and 2 timed hot-laps.
• Groups: Group qualifying will be used if the grid size is large enough to warrant in order to avoid traffic during qualification.
• Notes: Drivers not in the lounge by the time the first driver has entered the track after reset will not be allowed to qualify. They are welcome to join the race, but will start at the back of the grid. If we are running multiple qualification groups and the driver enters before the last group has entered track an exception will be made.

Hasslemof didn't qualify ant started race from the back. I think it was clear according to rules.
Sorry Serfon, but I can't get what did you mean what you didn't understand, racing he or not. If he entered the race and started avertaking others, this mean he was racing , not just went out for mushrooms...
I;m looking to this situation from the side and for me seams that perhaps you felt humiliated of been overtaken by a guy who started from the back? Come on, you rode good. ypu didn't lost you first victory 5 laps to go, you had a lead over D2G guy over 25 laps. And it doesn't matter, had he practice or not - he is just fast guy from D2G. just imagine, if you kept your position - it would be a great viktory. or maybe you prefiere victory with 30 s ahead second place. For me close battle is far better. I can't understand why you left track. Nevermind, case is closed
If we talk about stewarts racing, I see no problems them race with us.

 

[Strop]

That was me during the qualifying. One of my sons had come into the room right after we started qualifying, apparently to ask if I wanted pizza for dinner. In the heat of live qualifying it didn't occur to me until after that the mic was on. At least I think the conversation was over before the hot laps started, but point taken and I muted my mic for the actual race. I do apologize for distracting people and will make sure it doesn't happen next time.