GTP WRS-Online : Special Event III - Spa Mixed Class Enduro - Mar 25

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AspecBob

WRS race steward
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Sherbrooke, QC
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Ok, I had a quick session in my lounge last night to find out if I could handle the Peugeot, and the answer is... NO! With praiano's tune, it was much better, but still too hard for my limited skills. So I'm registering with the Corvette (main event and second supporting race).
 

Hydro

GTP Race Admin
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Ok, I had a quick session in my lounge last night to find out if I could handle the Peugeot, and the answer is... NO! With praiano's tune, it was much better, but still too hard for my limited skills. So I'm registering with the Corvette (main event and second supporting race).

I started with Praiano's LMP tune as well, but had to alter the setup to suit my driving style (lead foot on gas, don't like to use brakes much ๐Ÿ˜).
This car requires some serious patience when it comes to getting a setup right that will get you through 2.4 hrs.

When we first tested the Peugeot, we limited the power, and even added rear ballast in order to keep the car in control. In the end, after some good test sessions it turns out the biggest step was learning to adjust to the car, not the other way around. I was going crazy changing my tune every 2-3 laps, then I just left it, ran for 30 minutes straight, and then tuned out the worst problems. Repeat as necesary.....

It's certainly a tough car to master, and I can honestly say I haven't even come close yet ๐Ÿ™‚
 
6,668
Portugal
Lisboa
GTP_Hun
It would be a shame if you miss the event due to scheduling problems with the Quali.

Let me (or any of the stewards) know if you can schedule an alternate quali time, and I'm sure we can get you to the grid ๐Ÿ‘
It will have to be before the 18th though, as the final Quali results will be posted on the 19th.

The Quali itself can be done in about 15 minutes, so maybe a quick weeknight session?

Thanks for the kind words Hydro, I will really have a tough time getting some mileage in during the weekdays and a to schedule a quali meeting with one of you guys will not be easy. Anyway, it would be a shame to throw all my "hard work" so far out of the window so I just submitted my entry (LMP only), I'm sure I'll find the 15 minutes needed some day.

Here a brief account of what I've done this last weekend:

1 - Bought a works 908 (will buy a Oreca car also, just in case it is needed to make an even share of both liveries in the grid)

2 - After getting advice here I put one of my Bobs doing the Indy 500. Poor fellow got 6th LOL. So, the car is "fully broken".

3 - Put RKM's tune in sheet B, and PRAIANO's tune in sheet C.

4 - Tried both for about 3 or 4 laps, and found RKM's to be better suited to my driving style. So, I copied it into the "A" sheet, (renamed HUN) and I started the tweaking from there.

To be honest, I feel like Pat Fry talking about the F1 Ferrari. After a few tweaks I can say I still have a hard time understanding the car and that I won't challenge for a podium position (or indeed for a slot in the "A" race ๐Ÿ˜‚ )

I can, however, proudly say that - compared to the default car - the rear tyres take a lot longer to wear out, and snap-oversteer moments a thing of the past.

Now, it's the uuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnndersteer that "kills" me, especially in the fast double left hander coming down (Pouhon). For some reason, I never feel I get it right.
 

hasslemoff

WRS Race Steward
Premium
3,382
United Kingdom
Some where near the Pub
GTP_hasslemoff
Signed up, another event well organised ๐Ÿ‘

Might struggle to make the support races but will be putting as much practice as I can in the Z06.
 

Hydro

GTP Race Admin
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3,895
Canada
Toronto
GTP_Hydro
Thanks for the kind words Hydro,....

I can, however, proudly say that - compared to the default car - the rear tyres take a lot longer to wear out, and snap-oversteer moments a thing of the past.

Now, it's the uuuuuuuuuuuunnnnnnnndersteer that "kills" me, especially in the fast double left hander coming down (Pouhon). For some reason, I never feel I get it right.

Anytime ๐Ÿ‘

Understeer?????????? I'd kill for a bit of understeer in this car ๐Ÿ˜‚

RKM Tune:
Suspension
Ride Height: -25/-10
Spring Rate: 17.5/19.0
Extension:-- 10/10
Compression: 8/8
Anti-Roll:-- 1/3
Camber:----- 2.9/2.3
Toe:-------- 0.05/0.05

Simply adjusting the ride height should solve that (I think, my entire tune is considerably different).
Try a 0/0 setup and then only adjust the front to see if it will turn better.
A good test would be 0/0, then 10/0 and -10/0. This will give you a good idea as to what the adjustments translate to once driving. From there, experiment ;)
 

TheBook

Literary Member
Premium
3,947
United States
Sturgis, MI
GTP_ty00123
I have a couple questions regarding OLR rules in this event.

Rule 4: Pit Etiquette
You have to stay on the same side of the track as the pit exit until the first corner.

Since the pit exit is on the opposite side of the track as the racing line through Eau Rouge, are we allowed to filter in before the corner (but after the pit exit line), as long as we don't hold up a car going through at race pace?

Rule 16: Offline Racing
Two wheels. . .must be in contact with the track/circuit which includes the rumble strips and footpaths, but not grassed areas.

If we go outside the limits of the track and gain time from it, are we require to give a "courtesy lift" of the throttle, or is there a specific penalty that I didn't notice?
 

WRP001

GTP Race Admin
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I have a couple questions regarding OLR rules in this event.

Since the pit exit is on the opposite side of the track as the racing line through Eau Rouge, are we allowed to filter in before the corner (but after the pit exit line), as long as we don't hold up a car going through at race pace?

If we go outside the limits of the track and gain time from it, are we require to give a "courtesy lift" of the throttle, or is there a specific penalty that I didn't notice?

Just make sure not to interfere with approaching cars when you exit the pits. Pit exit can be tricky at Spa especially in the LMP car and you can't just mash the throttle as the AI releases control of the car. If cars are approaching from the track best to lay off the gas and straighten the car before engaging the throttle.

If a driver goes outside the track limits and makes a pass he must lift and give back that position. If the driver goes outside boundaries repeatedly even if it doesn't include a pass he will be penalized. Intentional or blatant cutting of corners will result in a DQ. Cutting corners to stay in another drivers draft is also not allowed and could result in a penalty.

However, if a driver runs wide on a corner by accident a few random times during the race he will not be penalized even if he doesn't lift. This will be something that's up to the judgement of the stewards and there is no hard and fast "count" of offs that will result in a penalty. Basically the stewards will examine the replay based on any complaints from other drivers or just things they notice as reviewing the race. If they think the results were materially impacted by the driver going outside the boundaries they will make an appropriate "correction". If the "offs" are incidental and unintentional they'll be left alone.

Just make every attempt to stay on track. If you notice you are running wide in a corner take special effort to keep it from becoming a pattern. If you can't do so then you should slow down and use the brake ๐Ÿ˜

Note that during qualification "any" off will be penalized (unless it's judged to have hurt the driver's lap) and the entire lap will be scrutinized live and via replay.
 

Allibubba99

WRS Race Steward
Premium
4,386
Canada
Wpg / Canada
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So depressing! What a weekend to have to be working!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
 

Speedy6543

GTP_WRS Race Admin
Moderator
7,025
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Ostend, Belgium
Speedy6543
For whoever wants, I'm in the GTP_3D3Racing lounge test racing for the enduro on Spa.

EDIT:
I'm done.
Had a go in the Corvette with RKM's, Mad Finn's and JG's tune.
- RKM's and Mad Finn's gave me most similar laps with decent tyre wear.
..Mad Finn's with adjusted Final Drive in the gearbox to suit the track.
- JG's is a front tyre eater IMO, and it gave me slightly slower laps (0.4 sec).
 
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DDiamond

"Dan"
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USA
GTP_DDiamond
All times quoted in the OP are for the race start. The lounge will open 30-60 minutes prior for pre-race free run practice. I filled out the driver database form for you when I saw you filled out the survey... special service since I was in the database anyway at the time. ๐Ÿ˜

The Saturday support races will *definitely* be shorter. The target at this point is 60 minutes so that amounts to about 25 laps. For the support races we plan to simulate as much from the Sunday Enduro as possible as far as the formation lap, rolling start and mixed class racing.

We also plan to hold some additional informal practice sessions (planned or ad hoc) where we'll do "practice races" to work on tunes, tire mgmt, drafting, etc. These will be less formal and will not require a sign up. They may be as short as 5-8 laps and will restart as necessary during the practice with free run sessions between them. Very much like our practice format for our weekly events. Schedule not known at this point, but just follow the thread and join if you can (it's optional)
.



Have you come up with a qualifying time for the Saturday races; if not, what do you consider a target range to shoot for?

.
 

WRP001

GTP Race Admin
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Have you come up with a qualifying time for the Saturday races; if not, what do you consider a target range to shoot for?

Not sure I understand your question. We have a qualification system that will apply to all the races whether the support races on Saturday or the races on Sunday. Any driver that wants to race in either event needs to qualify and the qualification deadlines are prior to either event. There will be no pre-race "live" qualifying for any of the races.

If you are talking about the minimum speed requirement to run the LMP class that's not yet final, but look for something in the 2'04.X-2'05.X range as the requirement for the two lap average.

Based on the survey and response so far it looks like GT will be the more populate class and we reserve the right to "tweak" the cutoff if it looks like we won't have enough LMP drivers to run multi-class in both lounges. In other words, if you are interested in running LMP there is no cost to trying to qualify other than a bit of time and practice which is fun anyway. If you don't make the initial cutoff, but you are close you may get lucky... In any case you can still qualify for GT and there is no cutoff for that class (although in either class only the fastest drivers will run in lounge A).

I hope that answers your question.
 

DDiamond

"Dan"
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United States
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GTP_DDiamond
Thanks, Tim.

Yeah, I probably didn't word that question too well.

I'll just sit back and read, lol, and correct me if I'm doing something wrong, which might be a lot. ๐Ÿ˜จ

Just make sure that I'm the last resort for any slot. ๐Ÿ˜‚
 

WRP001

GTP Race Admin
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GTP_WRP001
@Dan (DDiamond): Just sign up for both classes with GT as your primary and attempt to qualify for both. Can't hurt and it'll be fun. We'll tell you where to go from there or just pick the one you feel better about racing when the time comes to choose. ๐Ÿ˜‚

@Bart (PASM): I see you signed up for a different class for each of the support races. That's cool and totally allowed. However, any chance if one field is heavily weighted to one class or the other you would switch it up. i.e. you still run both classes, but maybe we'd ask you to flip your choices around? The goal would be to get a good mix of each class in each support race. Probably won't be necessary, but just checking if we have the flexibility.

Same would apply to anyone else who wants to try racing both classes on Saturday (although note that the speed requirement for LMP also applies to the support races).
 

DDiamond

"Dan"
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1,170
United States
USA
GTP_DDiamond
@Dan (DDiamond): Just sign up for both classes with GT as your primary and attempt to qualify for both. Can't hurt and it'll be fun. We'll tell you where to go from there or just pick the one you feel better about racing when the time comes to choose. ๐Ÿ˜‚

@Bart (PASM): I see you signed up for a different class for each of the support races. That's cool and totally allowed. However, any chance if one field is heavily weighted to one class or the other you would switch it up. i.e. you still run both classes, but maybe we'd ask you to flip your choices around? The goal would be to get a good mix of each class in each support race. Probably won't be necessary, but just checking if we have the flexibility.

Same would apply to anyone else who wants to try racing both classes on Saturday (although note that the speed requirement for LMP also applies to the support races).


Okay. I will re-submit. The practices should be fun, especially me with the 908, and I will most definitely try and attend all, if work permits.
 

PASM

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@Bart (PASM): I see you signed up for a different class for each of the support races. That's cool and totally allowed. However, any chance if one field is heavily weighted to one class or the other you would switch it up. i.e. you still run both classes, but maybe we'd ask you to flip your choices around? The goal would be to get a good mix of each class in each support race. Probably won't be necessary, but just checking if we have the flexibility.

Same would apply to anyone else who wants to try racing both classes on Saturday (although note that the speed requirement for LMP also applies to the support races).

Yes that would definately be possible, Tim ๐Ÿ‘ I thougth it would be cool to experience both sides of the action. Battling in the GT class while looking out for the faster LMP class looks like an exciting proposition to me too. As long as I get to test both in the practice races I'm happy, so ๐Ÿ™‚
 

WRP001

GTP Race Admin
Staff Emeritus
11,744
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California
GTP_WRP001
I plan to run some Spa testing/practice in the lounge tonight. I probably won't get online until too late for anyone except pacific time zone drivers, maybe starting at 8:30 PM Pacific. Feel free to jump on and set up the lounge early if you east coasters want to get some runs in.

If anyone is interested in a "mock" qualifying run to see how that works just jump in after 8:30 PM... it would not count toward qualifying of course and would be simply practice as the qualifying windows doesn't open until Saturday.
 

jtv90069

GTP Race Admin
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1,625
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Australia
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I'll probably join in as well, definitely need more practice in both cars.
 
136
United States
New York
JSOCCER9
You guys read my mind!! After the 3D3 Racing Marathon I was about to suggest that you did a multi-class race and to my surprise the next event is just that.

I did some practicing in my own lounge and found the Z06 to be much easier to handle than the high horsepower cars in the marathon. This then brings up a question:

When I was practicing for the laguna race in my own lounge I found the super-autobacs much easier to control than in the race. So I'm wondering if there is a difference in physics between your own lounge and a friends lounge?

I would simply test is out next time I see a lounge open but I am leaving on vacation saturday morning and won't be back for a week. Because of the vacation time I will be very busy and will then subsequently have little time to practice. I am not even close to being a racer who can easily control cars and would like to have confidence in my ability to race cleanly, especially when I have LMP's trying to pass. ๐Ÿ˜ฐ

Thanks, and hope to see you on the 25th ๐Ÿ‘
 

WRP001

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I'm in the lounge practicing if anyone wants to join.

EDIT: Out of lounge after a couple hour practice with JTV, Gooners and Gravitron. Ran some mock qualifying "races" towards the end.
 
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Gravitron

GTP WRS Race Admin
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...and they were intense! ๐Ÿ˜จ Who came up with this, again? ๐Ÿ˜

Actually my best moment was a 2:05.0xx in free-run, with the driving line off, after you guys left. I think I have the brake points scouted out. ๐Ÿ‘
 
260
Canada
GTP_T-L
Turismo-lester
I wish I could run this race but I will be away seeing my dad.
Looks quite fun!
I once did 17 hours straight in the Peugot with no pausing during a 24 hour race ๐Ÿ˜› haha
 
36
United States
United States
sjstuart
I took the Corvette out for a shakedown run, but was there too early to synch with you guys.

Novice question, I'm sure, but what's up with the Corvette not holding rpms around corners? Is that a car-specific thing, a tuning thing, or a driver thing? I was just running with the default gearing, so if it's something I can tune away, that's definitely my next step.
 

WRP001

GTP Race Admin
Staff Emeritus
11,744
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GTP_WRP001
When I was practicing for the laguna race in my own lounge I found the super-autobacs much easier to control than in the race. So I'm wondering if there is a difference in physics between your own lounge and a friends lounge?

I would simply test is out next time I see a lounge open but I am leaving on vacation saturday morning and won't be back for a week. Because of the vacation time I will be very busy and will then subsequently have little time to practice. I am not even close to being a racer who can easily control cars and would like to have confidence in my ability to race cleanly, especially when I have LMP's trying to pass. ๐Ÿ˜ฐ

Thanks, and hope to see you on the 25th ๐Ÿ‘

Normally there are small variances between lounges at times, but they are usually not that significant and completely unpredictable. There are also times when there is a grip difference between "race mode" and "free run" practice mode. That's sometimes referred to as a glitch or some people claim dirty air or just variable physics. I felt in the Laguna race that the grip level in the race was much less than the free run and I had the frequent crashes in the first few laps to "prove it", but not everyone had the same experience. By the end I had adjusted my line/approach to compensate and I was lapping quickly so it may have just been a bad performance on my part with cold tires and early spins killed the tires and it was just a snowball from there.

One thing to make sure is you set up your practice lounge correctly. Tire Wear Fuel Consumption ON is key as if this is off the system basically has optimal tire condition/temperature at all times and fuel weight it taken out of the equation and it feels way more "grippy" and consistent. At course that take 1.5-2 minutes it can be a 1 second difference per lap or more just with this one setting. Real grip reduction is also a factor, but more about the rumbles and loss grip if you get any tires off the edge of the track, etc. Some courses it makes a big difference and some it doesn't as much.

I really hope you can make some of our practice sessions after your vacation. You do NOT want to go into a 2.4 hour race cold and it wouldn't be fair to the other competitors. Remember also, you also have to do a pre-qualification run to participate so make sure you get that into your schedule. If your availability is limited you might want to arrange something ahead of time with a steward on a date you will be available.

Taking part in at least one of the Saturday races is not mandatory (pending your qualification), but is highly recommended so you can get a feel for the rolling start procedures and mixed class racing. I don't know if you have a lot of experience in mixed-class races, but I know I don't and I'm going to take every chance to practice. Even if the GT class car is easier to handle you have to factor in the LMP cars that are going to be racing "around" you and past you. So control and predictability are important and that can't be achieved without preparation.

Have fun on your vacation.
 

mohitraina91

GOONERS
Premium
1,783
Canada
Toronto, Canada
GTP_gooners_17
Lounging in a Spa right now, very relaxing.

EDIT: Out of the lounge. A very good session, managed a 2'03.8, which is a bit below the cutoff. Massive improvement over last night when I was running 2'06s.

The main change I did was switch from RKM's tune to Praiano's. RKM's suffers from some understeer in the mid-high speed corners, but it is a bit easier to control for those who are having trouble with this beast.
 
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WRP001

GTP Race Admin
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Qualifying for both classes official begins in 4 hours (Saturday March 10th @ 12:01 AM GMT):

img.php

Drivers should post to this thread if you need a steward to watch a qualifying run. You are free to set up the lounge and run practice and when/if a steward can observe he will come in the lounge and verify the settings and then observe the race and record the replay.

Stewards should post to the thread when they are in the lounge practicing and are willing to watch runs.

You can use any of the 3D3 lounges for qualifying. GTP_3D3Racing and GTP_3D3_B have mics enabled. GTP_3D3_A has mics disabled. If you prefer not to have any mics during your run request GTP_3D3_A.

The OP has been updated with the deadlines for qualifying for both classes with a countdown timer for each.
 
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Hydro

GTP Race Admin
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GTP_Hydro
Qualification notes for LMP class:

We have updated the OP with the LMP Class Quali requirements.
Qualifying Time
  1. The drivers single best hot lap will determine his starting position on the grid.
  2. LMP minimum speed criteria will involve the average of a driver's best two hot laps which must be under 2'05.50.
  3. Any driver in either class that demonstrates in qualification or practice sessions that he cannot keep the car in control and on the track consistently or maintain a reasonable pace will not be allowed to participate in the enduro race. The stewards and event organizers will make that call if it is deemed necessary.

Re: point #3: As this Race is not a typical 'drop in and drive' event, and we will require all drivers to demonstrate an ability to be in control of the their car at all times regardless of the Class they are competing in.
We will use the Quali and practice sessions (if necessary) to determine if a driver is up to the challenge.

Good luck in Quali guys ๐Ÿ‘
 

mohitraina91

GOONERS
Premium
1,783
Canada
Toronto, Canada
GTP_gooners_17
I took the Corvette out for a shakedown run, but was there too early to synch with you guys.

Novice question, I'm sure, but what's up with the Corvette not holding rpms around corners? Is that a car-specific thing, a tuning thing, or a driver thing? I was just running with the default gearing, so if it's something I can tune away, that's definitely my next step.

Dunno about the car as I haven't driven it, but the gearing is definitely playing a part. There are some sample tunes posted, but a great and easy way to tune the transmission is in the transmission paragraph in the following OP:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=242590

This trick ensures that from 3rd-6th gear, you are *almost* always in the peak power and torque band, giving you great acceleration. The gearing is super close, so it should get rid of your problem.

EDIT: YEYE 200 posts!
 

w-g-e

Sober GTP Race Admin
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2,077
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A question: can we watch each other qualify?
 

Hydro

GTP Race Admin
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3,895
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Toronto
GTP_Hydro
I the other driver (the one qualifying) is ok with spectators, I wouldn't object.
Of course there will be no chat, or typing of any kind during the Quali run itself and all spectators would have to be in the room before the Quali begins to avoid distracting the driver with a lobby entrance message during his hot laps.