GTP_WRS-Online : 2013 WRS World Cup Team Challenge - Aug 10

[WRP001]

MVP Award

MVPs per team are the top scoring drivers per team based on total handicapped points earned across both rounds.

The overall event MVP was determined by ranking team MVPs by their team points impact (Delta). Delta is calculated by measuring the impact on the team points if the driver was removed from the team (or in the case of teams with only 3 drivers, if the MVP points were swapped with by those points earned by the driver scoring the fewest points on the team).​

Overall Event MVP: GTP_DZ @ Team USA Red (+75.3 Delta, 113.1 HPts)

MVPs by Team (ranked by Delta):

All Drivers - Points Summary (ranked by handicapped point totals):

MVP Notes:

Base points (BPts) do not include driver handicap or bracket multipliers. Handicapped points (HPts) include both.​

Speed Racer Award

Given to the drivers with the fastest overall time for round 1, round 2 and total​

Overall Speed Racer: GTP_PASM @ Team Oranje (78:35.816)

• Fuji: GTP_PASM @ Team Oranje (39:20.853)
• Spa: GTP_GhostDriver @ Team UK (39:07.793)

All Drivers - Time Summary (ranked by overall race time for both rounds):

Speed Racer Notes:

Formation lap time for pole sitter is deducted from the race times from each room to equalize drivers.​

Hard Charger Award

The Hard Chargers are the drivers that gained the most positions per race and overall.

Of course this is also highly negatively correlated to qualification performance thus a double edged sword. ​

Overall Hard Charger: GTP_DrWatson @ PURE NA (12 Total Positions Gained)

• Fuji: GTP_DrWatson @ PURE NA (6 Positions Gained)
• Spa: GTP_w-g-e @ Team Nederland (8 Positions Gained)

All Drivers - Position Gained/Lost (ranked by overall delta):

Hard Charger Notes:

• Interesting that a few drivers had no positions gained or lost in either race (Carracer, Chorda, MadMax).
• Four of the six winners started on pole and the other two started on the front row.
• The biggest jump to gain a podium was DZ @ Spa.
• Poor R3cket had some bad luck from what I understand... didn't get to race you mate which is too bad! You had great pace, that I know!

 

[WRP001]

Qualifying and Race Videos



Best Team Quali: Team UK (Avg = 1'34.933)


Best Individual Quali: GTP_PASM (1'34.498)


PASM vs DrAug vs JTV - Highlights


PASM vs DrAug vs JTV - Full Replay



Spa Winners Bracket Race Highlights -- Start and First Stint


Don't try this at home. How to almost ruin your group qualification. (watch till the end of the main straight...)



Livestream from Oink's POV



​

 

[WRP001]

Race Pictures












Loris closing the gap into Les Combes


Mika (inside) and Daniel in a braking duel into turn one


Having to defend heavily to Loris


Loris hanging in there on the outside!


Still side by side


I manage to sneak ahead a bit


Loris still gunning for the overtake every lap


Once again side by side into Les Combes






Door to door racing, so much fun and respect


Loris makes the overtake as I run wide in Pouhon


Jon really closing in now


Jon and I pit at the end of lap 9. I take too much fuel and Jon gets out with a good gap.


Loris exits the pit a lap later just in front of me


Because of the extra speed I overtake Loris on Kemmel straight, Jon taking the lead of the race


Close quarters braking into the Bus Stop chicane


And again into turn one


Loris going around the outside, succesfully catching Jon's draft and overtaking me into Eau Rouge


Team Aussie now strongholding the front, here executing a perfect roadblock
​

 

[PASM]

Plus, who doesn't like to be promoted?

 

[WRP001]

Are we going to have any more of these? it was fun 👍

Are you signing up to be a competent team captain? If you saw this post you'd know that it's not likely to happen for another 3 years.
Like maybe GT7 timeframe, when the 16-man lobby is like a floppy disk.
It's a lot of work.

But I'll agree it was hella fun. 👍

I was kidding about waiting until the 250th anniversary to do this again.

I would be willing to give this go again, but also need a sign off from the other stewards because it was a lot of work for them also. Especially, on race day, when all the work and coordination takes a lot of your attention and really sacrifices focus on your own race. When I direct an event, my first duty is to the event and my performance on track comes a distant second (and it usually shows early in the race especially). It takes it's toll, believe me, but it's also a different sort of challenge and fun when it comes off in the end.

When we do this again I can be more low key about it and just go with the flow. Being the 100th anniversary and all I was quite particular about trying to get everything perfect. Plus the first time any new format is run it's a lot of work and thinking and planning. If we do a similar format again it can leverage all the infrastructure, plus I can just let it go where it go. Team doesn't show up... so be it... Free agents and teams that are short can worry about that themselves. i.e. We set up the event with the correct structure and the teams and drivers do the rest. If that's the plan, I'm up for another one, just realize it is what the teams and drivers make it.

Now, how about some feedback on the event and ideas for future events. Questions:

What did you like about the event? What would you change?

Example Topics:

• Races:
  • Length
  • Settings (fuel/tire rate, damage)
  • Aids Allowed
• Car and track selection (surely they would be different if we ran another anyway)
  • Tuning Prohibited vs Tuning
  • Race Car vs Road Car
  • Short Track vs Long Track
• Tournament structure
  • One day versus multi-week
  • Bracket Systems
  • Seeding
• Points System:
  • Driver Handicap (to use or not to use) & curve
  • Round 2 Bracket Multiplier
• Qualification
• Teams
  • Region Based or Open
  • Skill Balanced or Open
  • Team Size (3 scoring drivers, 4 total)

And of course anything else you can think of.

PS> I consolidated all the results, awards, videos and pics onto the first page. Surprised really how few pictures were posted. Guess it doesn't take people long to move on does it!

 

[AspecBob]

I think just about everything about the format was excellent.

It would be fun to have a multi-week tournament, but considering this would be a team event, it would be very hard to make it work (having all members of the team available for several different dates...).

The one thing I would like to change is the composition of the teams, which lead to my suggestion in the other thread. I did not want to bring it up in this thread because my goal was not to criticize how this event had been organized. This was primarily a region based event and was just fine as it was.

As I alluded in my quasi-pseudo race report, the "problem" was that I ended up with nobody to race with in round 2 (except potentially for Al -- who was on my team -- who has a handicap similar to mine [handicaps which are based on TT abilities and which might or might not represent racing abilities -- I do not consider myself to be as good a racer as Al, that's for sure -- but that's another discussion altogether]), which got me thinking about that particular modification for the next similar event.

As far as tracks/cars are concerned, I'm very easy, as long as it's not rocket cars (unless my team members would be patient enough to mentor me over the preparation period for the event!).

But the bottom line is it's hard impossible to please everybody, and, based on all past events, I am confident that this excellent team of stewards will always come up with very interesting events.

 

[oink83]

An idea for future events.

This event car/track selection was nice, no doubt about it. A fairly easy to get the hang of car, 2 classic locations that can provide good close racing.

But of course some people will be better with this car/this kind of car, and at these tracks. If I could dream up an event (and this really is dreaming) I would do like, a "King of the Track" style event, in which there are more than 1 event, consisting of very different car/track combos.

So for example,

• A F1 car race at and F1 track
• A LMP race at Le mans
• A Race car (much like this events car) at a classic race track
• A FF road car at a City course
• A DTM car at Nurb
• Super GT at one of the japanese tracks
• Nascar race
• Maybe even a rally stage?

Anyway, you get the idea. Dunno how you could have teams in that sort of thing, but, basically you could see who is the "king of the track" covering many aspects of racing. God that would be a nightmare to organise

 

[jammy21]

One idea came to my mind was that race is would be pair teams. Quali and race should be done together. Pair should stick together all the time (bump drafting each other) but they can't be seperated during the quali or race. Quali time and race finish is from 2nd driver.

 

[gtpcaine]

I think the race length was about right for this event, Spa I would say was spot on -- had mixed strategy 1 + 2 stoppers. Fugi could possibly have been a lap or two longer, I was on the border of 2 stopping due to my usual heavy foot, but due to the long pit delta it wasn't viable, so I had to drive slower to make the tyres last.

I personally would have liked to have seen tuning allowed. At least all non-power increasing mods anyway. I understand that if the car setup is equal, then it's all about the driver, which is good, but not all entrants have the same driving style, some like to keep it nice and smooth, others prefer to be a bit more rash. By allowing tuning, you can pretty much make the car suit the needs of every driver.
I don't think it really matters whether its a road or race car, we all just want to race! I know the main emphasis of this event was team-play, but it would have been nice to have a track with a shorter straight. Fugi, fair enough as it was the quali track. But there wasn't really a lot you could do team-wise at Spa, me personally anyway. So perhaps a high speed track, and then a slow technical one.

I think it would be better in the future if its a multi week event, with multiple races at each track. Perhaps even two days per track as well. Quali as we had for this event, but set at the final track (see further down for details). First race, a short sprint race, about the length of 1 stint, but with no tyre/fuel usage, grid set from quali. Second race, a feature race. about 45 minutes long, with 2 or 3 pitstops. But with a reversed grid start based on the previous sprint race, no rolling start.
The second day, basically the reverse of day 1. A feature race, again about 45 minutes long with a rolling start, and a grid of the finishing order from race 2. Then finally another short sprint, with reverse grid start from race 3.

Full points from feature races, half points from sprint races. Again only top 3 drivers points count towards the team, however, drivers do keep individual tally:

Position : (Feat / Sprint)
1st : 30 / 15
2nd : 24 / 12
3rd : 20 / 10
4th : 18 / 9
5th : 16 / 8
6th : 14 / 7
7th : 12 / 6
8th : 10 / 5
9th : 8 / 4
10th : 6 / 3
11th : 4 / 2
12th : 3 / 1.5
13th : 2.5 / 1.25
14th : 2 / 1
15th : 1.5 / 0.75
16th : 1 / 0.5

I don't think driver handicap should effect points, driver handicap isn't entirely accurate. Look at DZ he out performed his division and basically won the event because of it. I however am the opposite, I would say race wise i'm about D2 Bronze, maybe even D3 Gold. If I finish roughly where I would expect to finish it's then unfair to me, because I get 'penalised' for finishing below my actual division rank so to speak.

Going back to what I said about tracks, I think it would be nice to have a 3 track event. 1) a medium track, some high speed, some slow. 2) a slow technical track 3) a high speed track

Presuming we have 3 lounges with 12 teams overall, use a snaking system as before, based on average quali time of the team, which will be set at the track which holds the 'decider' (track #3):

round 1(from quali team seed):
123-213-123-213

round 2(average team points from round 1):
321-231-321-231

round 3 (in total team points order from round 1+2):
A) 1,2,3,4
B) 5,6,7,8
C) 9,10,11,12

For round 3 I would use the bracket multipliers, but as follows:

A) 4x B) 2x C) 1X

For example:

team 4 in A finish 10th, 12th and 14th in all 4 races, they score a total of 33.
33x4 = 132
team 5 in B finish 1st, 3rd and 5th in all 4 races, they score a total of 66.
66x2 = 132
team 8 in B finish 10th, 12th and 14th in all 4 races, they score a total of 33.
33x2 = 66
team 9 in C finish 1st, 3rd and 5th in all 4 races, they score a total of 66.
66x1 = 66

with the multiplier we had for the world cup the points would read:

33x3 = 99
66x1.75 = 115.5
33x1.75 = 57.75
66x1 = 66

I think this is unfair on the 4th/8th ranked teams. They might only be ahead of the 5th/9th team by 1 point prior to the last round, but because they are then racing against harder opposition they could drop down a place overall. With the multiplier I suggested, its a smoother transition from each bracket to the next.

Quali I think is ok, but I think the teams need to pull their fingers out and not leave it all to the last minute! Tactic wise Fugi was great. The 5 lap system worked perfectly IMO. Plenty of time to set your laptime and assist your team-mates. But for team tactics to play off, you are kind of dependant on a long start/finish straight.

Moving onto teams, a team size of 3-4 is spot on I think. In theory it would be nice to have 'mixed ability' teams, but for racing it's not practical. You want team-mates nearby to act as a rear gunner, or to help draft down straights, not half a lap behind. As for regional or free choice, I don't think it makes a huge difference. There might be a slightly higher competitive edge to region based teams, like England vs. Germany for example, but we are racers. We want to win, it doesn't matter who its against!

----------

By the way, incase you hadn't guessed the misses still won't let me on GT, hence the essay above. Anyway, thanks for the great event. Really enjoyed it 👍 And I hope the points above help you guys.

 

[WRP001]

DZ didn't just win because of his handicap. He won because he drove flawlessly and got two podium finishes. He deserved it and would have won the event if he was D2-silver (which is probably where he belongs at this point). I think if you look at performance versus expectations, he was the driver that most exceeded them and it wasn't the system that gave him the victory.

Almost every golf event includes handicaps. The top line PGA tour events don't. Most of our events do not include handicap, but I see no problem having one once in a while that does as long as the multiplier is not overly exaggerated.

If DZ had finished 6th in both races and won the event I'd say there was a problem, but he got two podium finishes in two tough rooms. The only drivers that beat DZ all day were DrAug, PASM and GhostDriver. Pretty incredible performance that should not be diminished so I won't sit back without response to "the only reason he won was X" unless X is that he drove amazing on that day and prepared more than any other driver bar none.

 

[gtpcaine]

I'm not doubting that he drove flawlessly, and didn't mean to offend. Yes I exaggerated about him winning the event for USA R, even if he was D2S you would have still won by about 15 points, I was kind of just making a point about the handicap system not being accurate because of the way our handicaps are calculated; by posting that magic lap out of hundreds, not being consistently fast for 20 laps or so. There's nothing we can do about our handicaps. You can't have a handicap for racing because there are too many things outside of your control during a race, for TT's its fine because you just restart.

 

[WRP001]

Well, we've only use handicaps once in the history of WRS-Online racing over 101 weeks and probably 225 races (other than the occasional set the grid order by handicap when quali isn't possible) so it's not like it's a common issue. We don't plan to start using it that frequently, but once in a while I don't see a problem with using it even if it's not a perfect system. It was introduced here so that drivers weren't pining for just fast drivers on their team... Teams could be just as well off accepting drivers from every division and it wasn't a battle of the alien teams. I think that was a good design even if they aren't perfect handicaps.

 

[gtpcaine]

I understand entirely why you used it, I was just answering the question of my evaluation of the event, stating that I personally wouldn't use driver handicaps and why. Anyway, enough of this.

 

[WRP001]

I understand entirely why you used it, I was just answering the question of my evaluation of the event, stating that I personally wouldn't use driver handicaps and why. Anyway, enough of this.

FYI, I don't consider this an argument and there are no hard feelings. Just an exchange of ideas. Appreciate your feedback. 👍

 

[gtpcaine]

FYI, I don't consider this an argument and there are no hard feelings. Just an exchange of ideas. Appreciate your feedback. 👍

Good I had been at work for 14 hours yesterday, so was a bit ratty.