GTP_WRS Week 176 : Bleu Rouge

  • Thread starter mcsqueegy
  • 143 comments
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EDK
He always runs some exploratory laps that way before changing to the flappy paddles.

No harm, no foul.
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Thanks.

While the first laps I do, which are always with the clutch and h-gate with any car that will let me use them, are explorations, that's not really why I do them that way.

First and foremost, I paid for the clutch and h-gate functionality and it just seems wasteful not to use them.

Secondly, since I know how to actually use a clutch and h-pattern shifter in real life, having spent at least 30 years driving manual transmission vehicles from dune buggies to 18 gear split diff commercial trucks, not to mention more than a couple motorcycles (albeit motorcycles are sequential shifting), using the transmission and engine for braking and rotation assistance is practically second nature for me. Used to do that all the time with dirt bikes and dune buggies and the concept applies to road vehicles as well. Doesn't work near the same in game but it's still a workable technique. Every vehicle I ever drove shifted differently to some degree or another. While I have no personal experience with it, I suspect there are even variations in the way vehicles of the same make, model and year shift. GT6 is the same. It's just a different make and model. It also does a fair job of emulating differences in each in-game car, of which there are 1200 or so. Yeah, I know, not all can be clutch shifted. Whoopee doo. There's still a :censored:ton that can be.

Thirdly, it's training. If I can learn how to get it around the track smoothly while operating the clutch and shifter, in addition to the gas, brake and steering, watching/listening to the rpms and everything else that goes with driving, once I move to working without those 2 additional tasks, my focus narrows and approaching the limits for myself and the car become easier. It's like any other training really. If you have a match that's going to last 1 hour, train for 2 hours or more a session. So, by dividing my attention more with the clutch and shifter, when I switch to not using them, those "attention slots" will be used elsewhere. My braking points and shifting happen much earlier than when flappy paddle shifting since at least one hand has to leave the wheel and you may use either foot for braking, depending on whether or not a shift is necessary or beneficial at the brake point. So, I learn how to go faster slower. It seems I also find out a bit about the torque curve of a car when jammin' gears. How early can you shift and still get equal or better acceleration? How late does the acceleration rate flatten out. Some cars do better if you brush the rev limiter before shifting and others will actually be slower taking the engine to red line, especially cars equipped with turbos that have variable boost. It's easier to find this out, for me anyway, when using the clutch. Plus, most cars just sound so much better when shifted using the clutch.

Lastly, and I don't have any personal experience with this, the rule regarding clutch and h-gate use is a holdover from GT5 Prologue, at least I was told it is, where it was discovered its use provided an advantage over players that didn't have the equipment. So, it was prohibited to make the field of play fairer to differing equipment levels. I didn't play Prologue and the only advantage I ever experienced in GT5 or 6 was from a cold standing start. I've never been faster using full manual and there's only been one combination of car and track where I couldn't better my best gear jammin' time by half a second or more using the paddles.

Afterthought, while it's occurred to me to test this rule by submitting a clutched time, just to see who's paying attention, it would be easy enough to catch, especially since I have a habit of skipping gears when downshifting. That just wouldn't happen using the paddles. Not to mention my times are rarely up for review requirements anyway. It's just not worth any drama it might cause to bother.

SRT DK Racing
Just wanted to be sure he didn`t waste a lot off time , iff he didn`t know about the rule :)
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Oh I knew. Years and years ago I entered a competition without knowing the rules of the game. I cost my team a lot of points because of it and I swore that would never happen again, even if the only team member was me. Thanks for your concern however. 👍 Dontchoo worry none 'bout dat'. In the great Finnish words, "I know what I'm doing." At least in regards to this and one or two other things. Like how to get out of bed in the morning. ;)
 
Dragonwhisky
Thanks.

While the first laps I do, which are always with the clutch and h-gate with any car that will let me use them, are explorations, that's not really why I do them that way.

First and foremost, I paid for the clutch and h-gate functionality and it just seems wasteful not to use them.

Secondly, since I know how to actually use a clutch and h-pattern shifter in real life, having spent at least 30 years driving manual transmission vehicles from dune buggies to 18 gear split diff commercial trucks, not to mention more than a couple motorcycles (albeit motorcycles are sequential shifting), using the transmission and engine for braking and rotation assistance is practically second nature for me. Used to do that all the time with dirt bikes and dune buggies and the concept applies to road vehicles as well. Doesn't work near the same in game but it's still a workable technique. Every vehicle I ever drove shifted differently to some degree or another. While I have no personal experience with it, I suspect there are even variations in the way vehicles of the same make, model and year shift. GT6 is the same. It's just a different make and model. It also does a fair job of emulating differences in each in-game car, of which there are 1200 or so. Yeah, I know, not all can be clutch shifted. Whoopee doo. There's still a :censored:ton that can be.

Thirdly, it's training. If I can learn how to get it around the track smoothly while operating the clutch and shifter, in addition to the gas, brake and steering, watching/listening to the rpms and everything else that goes with driving, once I move to working without those 2 additional tasks, my focus narrows and approaching the limits for myself and the car become easier. It's like any other training really. If you have a match that's going to last 1 hour, train for 2 hours or more a session. So, by dividing my attention more with the clutch and shifter, when I switch to not using them, those "attention slots" will be used elsewhere. My braking points and shifting happen much earlier than when flappy paddle shifting since at least one hand has to leave the wheel and you may use either foot for braking, depending on whether or not a shift is necessary or beneficial at the brake point. So, I learn how to go faster slower. It seems I also find out a bit about the torque curve of a car when jammin' gears. How early can you shift and still get equal or better acceleration? How late does the acceleration rate flatten out. Some cars do better if you brush the rev limiter before shifting and others will actually be slower taking the engine to red line, especially cars equipped with turbos that have variable boost. It's easier to find this out, for me anyway, when using the clutch. Plus, most cars just sound so much better when shifted using the clutch.

Lastly, and I don't have any personal experience with this, the rule regarding clutch and h-gate use is a holdover from GT5 Prologue, at least I was told it is, where it was discovered its use provided an advantage over players that didn't have the equipment. So, it was prohibited to make the field of play fairer to differing equipment levels. I didn't play Prologue and the only advantage I ever experienced in GT5 or 6 was from a cold standing start. I've never been faster using full manual and there's only been one combination of car and track where I couldn't better my best gear jammin' time by half a second or more using the paddles.

Afterthought, while it's occurred to me to test this rule by submitting a clutched time, just to see who's paying attention, it would be easy enough to catch, especially since I have a habit of skipping gears when downshifting. That just wouldn't happen using the paddles. Not to mention my times are rarely up for review requirements anyway. It's just not worth any drama it might cause to bother.


Oh I knew. Years and years ago I entered a competition without knowing the rules of the game. I cost my team a lot of points because of it and I swore that would never happen again, even if the only team member was me. Thanks for your concern however. 👍 Dontchoo worry none 'bout dat'. In the great Finnish words, "I know what I'm doing." At least in regards to this and one or two other things. Like how to get out of bed in the morning. ;)
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Mega post. 👍

We've kept the rule grandfathered in. Someone, at some point, may find some advantage with it on a specific wheel and shifter combo, and we just want to make sure that base is covered.

Kind of like the e-brake rule. People abused it by tapping it constantly in all the slow corners, so it was subsequently banned from our events. It's a silly gimmick and we are not going to allow it.

Not to say the two are the same, because I agree with you that using the paddles on cars that would normally be H shifted with the clutch is a little silly. I of course have my own manual transmission car and first learned to drive a manual over 25 years ago. And when I race, those cars don't have flappy paddles.

But the issue becomes a bit self solving when paddle shifting is basically "the only way to go fast".

:cheers:
 
mcsqueegy
Been a tenth faster in T1 and in T3, T2 was a PB but went wide at one point. Hopefully I'll have time on the weekend for more :D
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Most guys who have those would tell you to also swap the accel spring for the brake spring, and install one of the aftermarket brake mods, preferably a load cell mod. Good pedals will make you faster, which is a scary proposition when we are talking about you. :scared:
 
Bertracer
Does anyone know how to make the gears slightly slightly longer? Do I just move the final gear figure a few clicks to the right?
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Dragonwhisky
Yup
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EDK
Longer would be to the left. Lower number = higher/longer gears.
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OOops. Sorry. EDK is correct. Smaller numbers in gearing means longer/taller = higher top speed. If the hp/torque is enough to push it anyway.
 
Gran Turismo 2 quick gearing setup and the "top speed" slider in GT5 and GT6 are very similar, where shorter gears are to the left. So those are all inverse (one thing is 1/x and other is x) to final gear values.
 
EDK
Mega post. 👍

We've kept the rule grandfathered in. Someone, at some point, may find some advantage with it on a specific wheel and shifter combo, and we just want to make sure that base is covered.

Kind of like the e-brake rule. People abused it by tapping it constantly in all the slow corners, so it was subsequently banned from our events. It's a silly gimmick and we are not going to allow it.

Not to say the two are the same, because I agree with you that using the paddles on cars that would normally be H shifted with the clutch is a little silly. I of course have my own manual transmission car and first learned to drive a manual over 25 years ago. And when I race, those cars don't have flappy paddles.

But the issue becomes a bit self solving when paddle shifting is basically "the only way to go fast".

:cheers:
Click to expand...

E-brake ? Never heard off it before and iam so curius that it hurts sometimes , so please tell what that is hehe
 
SRT DK Racing
E-brake ? Never heard off it before and iam so curius that it hurts sometimes , so please tell what that is hehe
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It's that lever you pull to typically lock the rear wheels. I do not know which 'GT' cars would inhibit the front wheels instead, and whether that is modeled correctly.
 
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@ontherivet I do not believe - based on but my experience - there is a setup that makes S1 fast and second sector slower so, keep that momentum going!
 
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