Gumpert Apollo S or Bugatti Veyron?

[JJ72]

So you don't know who Roland Gumpert is or what he did for Audi's motorsport division when he was working there?

yes.

But imagine Jean Todt made a supercar would you relate it to Ferrari?

He doesn't have the mystic draw of say Colin Chapman.

It isn't a name that evokes nostalgia and emotion to me, the only new-ish car firm which has that X-factor is Pagani.

Spending that much money I would want power, grip, history and prestige. If I simply want to go really really fast in something ugly I will get a Radical SR8.

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Veyron. Because I just love the collective sound of gnashing teeth and whimpering coming from the insurance companies.. As well as the utter hatred from greenpeace members.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

But imagine Jean Todt made a supercar would you relate it to Ferrari?

If it was created in partnership with Ferrari like the Apollo is with Audi then yes, I would.

 

[SuperShouden]

Veyron. Because I just love the collective sound of gnashing teeth and whimpering coming from the insurance companies.. As well as the utter hatred from greenpeace members.

But you can get all that from driving a Hummer. Plus, then, you can save yourself a good $900,000

 

[Leonidae@MFT]

Yeah, but Hummer doesn't serve any purpose. Veyron does.

 

[Stavelot]

If it was created in partnership with Ferrari like the Apollo is with Audi then yes, I would.

I'd have thought Peugeot if it were Jean Todt o_0

 

[SuperShouden]

Yeah, but Hummer doesn't serve any purpose. Veyron does.

Actually, the Hummer did serve a purpose at one point. More purpose than VW's "Let's build a car that can go 300mph" reasoning behind the Veyron.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It can't be a tank through the corners and come out with that lap time. Not possible. I'd wager that most of the people viewing this thread would be too scared to take a veyron to its cornering limits. The SuperSport is listed at 1.4 lateral g's.

I think you're just too much of a Veyron fan to look past the fact that it got beat and if they ran more than one lap and say five that one second margin starts to add up. Also the person that did the testing probably did take the veyron to the limit in the corners since the drivers that play the stig are usually ex F1 and not slouches. Who knows, I do agree though that the Veyron is more of a comfort while going fast and the Gumpert is an "ow my back hurts but I'm still going fast"

Anyways based on pure statistics and facts. The Gumpert

 

[Prosthetic]

Yeah, but Hummer doesn't serve any purpose. Veyron does.

 

[AudiPro]

Gumpert, that thing is certainly the ugly duckling but it sure is fast...

 

[Exorcet]

Gumpert, that thing is certainly the ugly duckling but it sure is fast...

I still think it's one of the best looking cars ever. Unlike some other quad turbo, 4WD, W-16 engined cars.

I also don't get the heritage thing. First of all in general, if Daewoo made a better car than Ferrari, it's a better car, heritage or not. Second of all, Bugatti has been out of business forever, not counting EB110. Can it really claim any relation to the company from the 30's?

 

[AOS-]

I dislike the extremely geometric appeal of the Apollo personally... The F1, Exige, Stirling Moss and V12 Vantage are damn nice.

 

[Murcie_LP640]

I'd have thought Peugeot if it were Jean Todt o_0

18 years ago that would have been the case.

 

[JJ72]

I also don't get the heritage thing. First of all in general, if Daewoo made a better car than Ferrari, it's a better car, heritage or not. Second of all, Bugatti has been out of business forever, not counting EB110. Can it really claim any relation to the company from the 30's?

The problem is here is there's no better car, one is a hardcore track machine and another is a hypercar. Which is better depends entirely on your preference. But what I'll add is while the Veyron is an icon of 21st century hypercar, the Gumpert position in the track car group isn't as iconic.

And for if Daewoo built a better direct competitor to Ferrari, just think about why a GTR cost a third what a Ferrari does, it's the brand and continuity. Of course some people don't bother (like subie drivers who just want bang for bucks) and it's fine for me.

The Veryon doesn't involve the same personal but the overall concept and design cues at least have some relation to the brand, the Gumpert is pretty much a run of the mill hardcore track car using modified version of production engines.

 

[Danoff]

I think you're just too much of a Veyron fan to look past the fact that it got beat and if they ran more than one lap and say five that one second margin starts to add up.

In a race yes. And if that what you're buying the car for... to win races... sure, knock yourself out with the gumpert. If you're buying the car as something to ENJOY... well then the gumpert is an absurd decision (ignoring price). It gives you epsilon more performance and sacrifices everything else.

 

[Famine]

I'm not a fan of the Veyron at all, but it's pretty good at everything and happens to be the fastest and quickest thing with a warranty.

Joe Public - and that includes everyone posting in this thread - is not going to driving both cars at the very upper limit to be able to exploit the extra track pace an Apollo will have over the Veyron. Since you cannot reach those margins, there are no margins and the choice becomes a car with little comfort or a car with lots of comfort and devastating real-world pace...


It makes no sense to compare these cars on an equal basis, as if potential buyers will pick one or the other. I'm not even sure why the guy who posted the thread is doing so.

 

[Joel]

If you're buying one as a race car, the Apollo, yes. But as Danoff and Famine have said, none of us are professional race car drivers, and I know for a fact I'd be too scared to take either car to its limit. I'd rather have the Veyron due to the comfort, amenities, looks, and sheer brute power.

 

[AOS-]

I'm guessing it deep down is just a "pick a favourite from the two" thread, with the optional choice to explain why you made that decision... I mean, "I'm a Gumpert person" says a lot about comparing specs, doesn't it?

 

[Exorcet]

If you're buying the car as something to ENJOY... well then the gumpert is an absurd decision

What are you trying to enjoy? Grocery shopping, I guess the Veyron does that better. GT car? Well, I suppose the Veyron would be better in that category for most people, though personally I'm not sure. Smooth ride isn't on my priority list, I'd probably like the feeling of a more raw car.

There's also just casual track days, as opposed to racing. Besides the performance difference between the cars, you'll also pick up their unique handling characteristics and personality. In this case I certainly think the Gumpert would be more enjoyable. It's nimbler, and it's not going to cuddle you. I really don't want the latter.

There was an old video on youtube of a Radical lapping Nurburgring, and I honestly think one of the best parts of the video was how the chassis would creak over every bump.

I'm not even sure why the guy who posted the thread is doing so.

Maybe to get an idea of the general GTP population's view on the cars or what they look for in cars?

 

[Danoff]

There's also just casual track days, as opposed to racing.

...in which case any performance difference between the two cars is irrelevant. Either one is going to thrill the bajesus out of you. In one car, you might not need dental work done afterward...


(which is good because you won't be able to afford dental work afterward)

 

[sumbrownkid]

A Veyron.

The Gumpert, though very awesome, looks very geeky also...Not exactly gonna pull up to Pizza Hut in that.

And before anyone asks, yes I will take a Veyron to a Pizza Hut. If I just spent 1.2 million dollars, I intend to use every penny of it.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

In a race yes. And if that what you're buying the car for... to win races... sure, knock yourself out with the gumpert. If you're buying the car as something to ENJOY... well then the gumpert is an absurd decision (ignoring price). It gives you epsilon more performance and sacrifices everything else.

Yes but that is the same reason why I would never buy an LFA when I could go get a GT-R or ZR1. Two cars that handle just as good if not better and are just as fast but much more affordable. My point is stats and numbers, and the number favor the gumpert and so does the price. If it rides like a donkey to me that's not a big deal. Paying over a million for a car is a big deal. Especially when I could go invest it into something worth the money...say a Ferrari F40, or a McLaren F1. I'm sure the Bugatti will be worth the money one day.

If comfort is all your driving at wouldn't you rather get something more unique and not a car that every 15 year old boy and older knows just cause of a speed stat. You ask most people if they know the EB110 and they'd look at you funny, but you say the Veyron and all of sudden a different story. We obviously strive for different things in cars, but I do see the appeal of the Veryon especially that nice interior.

 

[Danoff]

Yes but that is the same reason why I would never buy an LFA when I could go get a GT-R or ZR1. Two cars that handle just as good if not better and are just as fast but much more affordable. My point is stats and numbers, and the number favor the gumpert and so does the price. If it rides like a donkey to me that's not a big deal. Paying over a million for a car is a big deal. Especially when I could go invest it into something worth the money...say a Ferrari F40, or a McLaren F1. I'm sure the Bugatti will be worth the money one day.

That's the angle to take here - that the Veyron isn't worth the price. Not that it's slow, or "can't turn". The Veyron is every bit as good as the Gumpert in terms of performance for the purposes of anyone viewing this thread. Either car gets the survey filled out exactly the same way:

Goes like stink? Faster than stink.
Turns hard? I passed out.
Stops hard? I'm still looking for my eyes.

It just also happens to be good at all sorts of other things. That's why it costs so much, and that cost is the reason the Gumpert has a niche in the market.

If comfort is all your driving at wouldn't you rather get something more unique

If comfort is all you're driving at, you'd get a buick.

 

[Exorcet]

...in which case any performance difference between the two cars is irrelevant.

That's why I distinguished track days from race events. Is a Miata better than a Formula 1 for a track day, or is it the other way around? Yes. Is a muscle car that can barely corner better or worse than both of them? Yes.

It's subjective. We agree. I wasn't talking about performance, but experience. I do think most people would say that a soft/less jarring ride is a plus. I'm not one of them though. Feeling the car bounce around underneath you is something I would want to experience (and of course, I'd probably be annoyed with something that's too rough). I would gladly trade the Veyron's civility for the Apollo's roughness. Not to mention, despite the Veyron being so well engineered, it cannot escape being a compromise. From what I remember of the reviews, you can feel the weight of the car when you push it hard enough. I suppose you could ask the question, how hard would I push it though. Yeah, the average guy wouldn't have the experience to jump in and extract 100% from either car, but it's not like you couldn't make a serious hobby out of tracking your car and get good at it.


EDIT

Is it just me, or do post that were not there before with 99% certainty just seem to insert themselves into threads?

The problem is here is there's no better car, one is a hardcore track machine and another is a hypercar. Which is better depends entirely on your preference.

Absolutely right.

And for if Daewoo built a better direct competitor to Ferrari, just think about why a GTR cost a third what a Ferrari does, it's the brand and continuity. Of course some people don't bother (like subie drivers who just want bang for bucks) and it's fine for me.

I should have phrased my example differently. There is a big price jump between Ferrari and the GT-R, even if the performance is pretty close. I'd still go with the Ferrari though, but not at all for "history" or "prestige".

Let me change my example. Consider a world where Daewoo and Ferrari both make the 458. Both 458's are exactly the same car except for the badge (which has zero weight and drag). I would make no distinction between these two cars. To me, the car is the car and nothing else. However, I realize that some people would consider the Ferrari better/more desireable for no other reason than the letters printed on the hood.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

That's the angle to take here - that the Veyron isn't worth the price. Not that it's slow, or "can't turn". The Veyron is every bit as good as the Gumpert in terms of performance for the purposes of anyone viewing this thread. Either car gets the survey filled out exactly the same way:

Goes like stink? Faster than stink.
Turns hard? I passed out.
Stops hard? I'm still looking for my eyes.

It just also happens to be good at all sorts of other things. That's why it costs so much, and that cost is the reason the Gumpert has a niche in the market.



If comfort is all you're driving at, you'd get a buick.

I see what you mean my point is if a car fufills all basic things of a hypercar wouldn't you buy the cheaper car that can do everything the more expensive one does. Also the comfort part is what you guys were saying about the Veyron being better than the Gumpert, I don't care about comfort, if I'm buying a hyper car to thrash in speed is number one and comfort isn't that high on the list.

 

[MoLiEG]

I like the Gumpert Apollo a lot... but I like the Veyron even more... so therefore... Veyron for me... all the way!

 

[xNEVER-ONEx]

I see what you mean my point is if a car fufills all basic things of a hypercar wouldn't you buy the cheaper car that can do everything the more expensive one does. Also the comfort part is what you guys were saying about the Veyron being better than the Gumpert, I don't care about comfort, if I'm buying a hyper car to thrash in speed is number one and comfort isn't that high on the list.

Price is irrelevant when you get into this kind of territory. Honestly, I get it, people hate the Veyron because it has been such big part of car culture for the last decade. It took away the record from everyone's child hod poster car, the F1. I despised it too, until I grew out of that phase and started appreciating the Veyron for what it was. Its still not my favorite car, but I no longer hate on it.

The thing is, unless you want a absolute track car, the Veyron trumps the Gumpert in every way. The Gumpert is simply ugly, and while the Veyron may not be the pretty, it has a certain presence to it few cars can match. It looks super fast and sleek, and you know the car is expensive. Everything on the Veyron has to be described by extreme, because the car is just that. No way in hell would I pay that much for a car that wouldn't make a decent highway cruiser (I'm talking of the Gumpert.

 

[Exorcet]

Price is irrelevant when you get into this kind of territory.

Wealth is not a discrete function. Any time there is a price difference, price may matter. There are people who could afford an Apollo, but not a Veyron.

The Gumpert is simply ugly, and while the Veyron may not be the pretty, it has a certain presence to it few cars can match.

Opinion. Mine is the Veyron is ugly and the Gumpert is a work of art.

and you know the car is expensive

This isn't a universal concern. I certainly don't care.

No way in hell would I pay that much for a car that wouldn't make a decent highway cruiser

I wouldn't shell out Veyron money unless I was getting a no compromise race car.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Price is irrelevant when you get into this kind of territory. Honestly, I get it, people hate the Veyron because it has been such big part of car culture for the last decade. It took away the record from everyone's child hod poster car, the F1. I despised it too, until I grew out of that phase and started appreciating the Veyron for what it was. Its still not my favorite car, but I no longer hate on it.

The thing is, unless you want a absolute track car, the Veyron trumps the Gumpert in every way. The Gumpert is simply ugly, and while the Veyron may not be the pretty, it has a certain presence to it few cars can match. It looks super fast and sleek, and you know the car is expensive. Everything on the Veyron has to be described by extreme, because the car is just that. No way in hell would I pay that much for a car that wouldn't make a decent highway cruiser (I'm talking of the Gumpert.

That's not why I dislike the Veyron...it's actually quite simple and not quantum mechanics. When car A (Veyron) cost 1.6 million, while car B (Apollo) cost 400K and both cars are virtually as fast around a track, if I have the money to buy either of the two easily...I'm going to go for the better investment. Any smart man with money isn't going to just wastefully spend 1.6 million when there are cars out that rival the Veyron for less than half of what it cost.

If the McLaren F1 was your childhood hero car that's great, it wasn't mine and top speed records don't mean much to me. If I want top speed I'd invest that money into a salt flat rocket car, or a top fuel dragster (I know they're extremes but make the point). Also if I have money as a car enthusiast or racing guy like say Eric Bana the Actor. I'm going to go race the car when I can or spend money to drive it to it's limits somewhere or at least half of it's limits. Also what one man sees as a super fast looking car, another see a wide sitting hippo that hugs the road. You see something sleek, I see something as fat and ugly as the Gumpert.

Why would a Veyron owner buy it just to cruz around in? I mean obviously cause the can, but really that's all you do, that's not a car enthusiast really. Geez you could get as much attention in a 599 GTO with out coming near that Veyron price tag...and don't get me started on the 2.4million the SS is running at. However, like I've said I understand why there are fan, the sheer engineering is what is the curb appeal, but same can be said for countless others especially the McLaren F1 that can still keep up with Veyron for a distance.

 

[JJ72]

people who buy these cars does not concern about budget, believe me, my business and personal friend is one of those people, he had order placed on the new pagani and mclaren and has 30 cars in his garage, its just a matter of what they like and how signicficant the car is. think about it, these cars are great as an investment alone, they aways go up in value, it's not fulfilling a need it is just a really shiny toy. no one will buy a veyron with all his money and left himself with nothing, unless he won it from the lottery. If someone can earn that amount of mon ey he is the kind of person who can turn 1 million into ten million, they wont blow all money on one thing and give away the abilith to generate more money. and as for what people use these cars for? The mostly sit in the garage and be taken out for cruises with cars of the same caliber, thats the norm, its not even about getting attention, most cruise here happen 5 in the morning to remote countrysides, people just have a love for their cars and it is a very personal thing.