Had my first drive with a wheel........wow

I tried 10-1 too. I could barely turn the wheel (Gr.3)

So dialed down the strength to 3 (which is what i had before) but kept the sensitivity on 1. TBH i didn't feel a massive difference switching between 1 and 10 on sensitivity (probably unsurprisingly, given how little feel there is even at 10...). Maybe a little less surface information comes through but that was about it.
 
So this week's dailies are not doing it for me, also had yet another blow out with the wife so locked myself in the basement and pulled out the T150. I ran the WRX Group 4 with racing hards at bathurst, as I had just run that last week and felt confident where the grip limits are etc. I ran a 2.13.3 in qualy in the dailies, lots of sub 14 laps in practice for reference.

So started slowly, just building pace. Set the steering lock to it's middle setting. I did a total of 32 laps, best time of 2.14.7 and never strung two sub 2.16's together due to errors. Pulled out the DS4, ran two flying laps, 2.13.6 and 2.12.9.

I am actually as fast or faster with the wheel from the cutting through to Mcphillamy, there is SO MUCH more turn in with the wheel, gentle inputs yield excellent times as you do not scrub speed like i do on the DS4. Sector 1 is a wash, maybe more consistent with the wheel.

I am losing a TON of time through the dipper and forrest's elbow, as well as the chase. Like 2 seconds a lap and falling off the road a lot.

I continue to struggle with steering, initial input is lazy then the car goes too far then i have a hard time straightening her out upon release of the steering. It's weird as through fast, flowing sections it feels good, reid park, mcphillamy etc but on more traditional corners like murrays, it's a mess. Entering the chase, i cannot keep the car straight, it always wants to drift to the right.

The lack of brake pressure hurts, I cannot really judge my braking so yeah dipper and forrests is tough sledding.

i have time tonight so will post a video of a cleanish lap with wheel and ds4 so you can see the difference, thing is though, pace alone not issue, i am unable to string 2 laps together.
 
NevilleNobody
So this week's dailies are not doing it for me, also had yet another blow out with the wife so locked myself in the basement and pulled out the T150. I ran the WRX Group 4 with racing hards at bathurst, as I had just run that last week and felt confident where the grip limits are etc. I ran a 2.13.3 in qualy in the dailies, lots of sub 14 laps in practice for reference.

So started slowly, just building pace. Set the steering lock to it's middle setting. I did a total of 32 laps, best time of 2.14.7 and never strung two sub 2.16's together due to errors. Pulled out the DS4, ran two flying laps, 2.13.6 and 2.12.9.

I am actually as fast or faster with the wheel from the cutting through to Mcphillamy, there is SO MUCH more turn in with the wheel, gentle inputs yield excellent times as you do not scrub speed like i do on the DS4. Sector 1 is a wash, maybe more consistent with the wheel.

I am losing a TON of time through the dipper and forrest's elbow, as well as the chase. Like 2 seconds a lap and falling off the road a lot.

I continue to struggle with steering, initial input is lazy then the car goes too far then i have a hard time straightening her out upon release of the steering. It's weird as through fast, flowing sections it feels good, reid park, mcphillamy etc but on more traditional corners like murrays, it's a mess. Entering the chase, i cannot keep the car straight, it always wants to drift to the right.

The lack of brake pressure hurts, I cannot really judge my braking so yeah dipper and forrests is tough sledding.

i have time tonight so will post a video of a cleanish lap with wheel and ds4 so you can see the difference, thing is though, pace alone not issue, i am unable to string 2 laps together.
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Same this week, dailies not y thing so gave the wheel a try at Interlagos in the car i ran my fastest time in last week, same conditions, BOP on etc. I am still experiencing the same issues, no feel on the brakes, like at all, and a dead zone in the steering that i am always correcting for. I recorded a video of the fastest lap, not sure if that helps read the situation or not.

I am some 2.3 seconds off my DS4 time using X and square and the D-pad.

 
How many hours have you put into solely using your wheel compared to your tried and trusted pad? It's no different from when you first started on X, square and D pad but you put the effort into getting better at that.

Rome wasn't built in a day (it took years for me) but it sure is pretty when it's finished. I can't remember the last time I crashed and my lap times haven't stopped improving since I switched. Cha-ching.
 
When i first posted the thread I did about 50 hours. The dead zone is killing me, i turn and nothing, turn a bit more and too much then i need to correct.
 
NevilleNobody
When i first posted the thread I did about 50 hours. The dead zone is killing me, i turn and nothing, turn a bit more and too much then i need to correct.
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Are you still using chase cam? I find the wheel completely unusable in chase cam. Maybe try with bumper and hood cams for a bit?

I do appreciate some people are considerably quick using a wheel and chase cam, but for me there was a weird disconnect, which might be what you've been experiencing.
 
NevilleNobody
When i first posted the thread I did about 50 hours. The dead zone is killing me, i turn and nothing, turn a bit more and too much then i need to correct.
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I did 50 hours in my first month and was still a country mile off being comfortable.

You'll definitely be able to adapt to it eventually. Then it's onwards and upwards.
 
NevilleNobody
Same this week, dailies not y thing so gave the wheel a try at Interlagos in the car i ran my fastest time in last week, same conditions, BOP on etc. I am still experiencing the same issues, no feel on the brakes, like at all, and a dead zone in the steering that i am always correcting for. I recorded a video of the fastest lap, not sure if that helps read the situation or not.

I am some 2.3 seconds off my DS4 time using X and square and the D-pad.

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It's well known that PD programmed GTS to equalise the controller users. Which means the program provides unrealistic help to controller users Vs wheel users. So when you change to the wheel you have to learn the game all over again.

From your video, I would suggest...

1. Learn to drive with Traction Control OFF. It takes time, but you will be faster eventually. With TC1 you will be 1-2 seconds slower good driving with TC0.

2. Your lines are pretty good, also your throttle control is good, but I didn't see much use of Trail Braking.

3. Not sure what car that is, but usually there's a reason for the meta... Supra was fastest qualifying this week, closely followed by RCZ, so why punish yourself with a slower car... "In race" is a different story since slipstream and overtaking zones play a large part of the strategy.

4. Use bumper cam or roof cam. Some people can also be fast in cockpit view, but it has huge blind spots...

Trail Breaking
 
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Sounds like the wheel is faulty or not setup correct. If you've been doing any sort of racing with a controller beforehand, the transition shouldn't be THAT difficult. You'll be slower and there's a lot to adjust to yes, but you should be able to at least complete one lap. If you are getting nothing and then suddenly get a lot of steering input, sounds like a faulty wheel. Did you buy it 2nd hand? If not, I'd return it and get something slightly better. Don't let this put you off to wheels, they are worth it!


Jerome
 
Do you use the simple pedals of the T150 as only gas brake or already better ones? I had the T150 myself until recently, only 2 months, but I was very quickly better than with the pad.
However, I quickly realized that the simple pedals are my biggest problem, because you can neither accelerate nor (which is much worse) the brakes properly.
I then upgraded my T150 with the TLCM and that was very good. Then I got a very good offer for new T248 without pedals and that's why I don't have the T150 anymore.
The T248 is worlds better than the T150.
What I'm getting at is that the T150 isn't all that bad, I suspect your problem is more under your feet.
 
NevilleNobody
You know what, i thought of that too, i'll change it up tonight.
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Seriously, are you using chase cam with the wheel? You realize that chase cam isn't remotely like the experience of driving a car? I don't use (can't use!) a pad & never use chase cam ... but the few times I have accidentally switched to chase cam I find the car impossible to control. I dare say you could get used to driving in chase cam with a wheel ... but why would you?!
 
Whenever I try a wheel I'm all over the road as well. So weird since when I buy a new car, no problem staying on the road lol. Not sure what makes it so different in a video game. Driving 50kph in a video game with a wheel is 10x harder than in a real car.

Of course driving 50kph in a video game feels like walking rather than driving... Now they've installed roundabouts here, taking those at 50kph is super fun :lol:. I don't see no speed limits posted for roundabouts, no need to slow down...

Oh interesting, it is different here than what I learned in Europe:
Do not change lanes in the roundabout (every lane has an opportunity to exit).
I learned to enter in the left lane for 3 quarter turns and merge right to exit in the right lane.
 
I signed up just to try and help @NevilleNobody :)

Mate, plug that bad boy into a laptop or PC and download the Thrustmaster T150 drivers from here. For starters, there could be a firmware update for the wheel that will fix bugs and improve in-game performance (it will tell you if the firmware needs updating). But most importantly, check the axis readouts. Make sure that what you're seeing on screen reflects what you are doing with the wheel. It should sit at 50% when centred and it should smoothly move to 0% (left) or 100% (right) as you turn. If it's jerky and doesn't respond smoothly it could be faulty.

If you don't have a Windows PC/laptop borrow one or take it to a mate who does.

Secondly, make sure that in GTS you have controller sensitivity cranked to the max (I think it's 7). This will make sure the game doesn't ignore small inputs from you.

Hope this helps!
 
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Biggles
Seriously, are you using chase cam with the wheel? You realize that chase cam isn't remotely like the experience of driving a car? I don't use (can't use!) a pad & never use chase cam ... but the few times I have accidentally switched to chase cam I find the car impossible to control. I dare say you could get used to driving in chase cam with a wheel ... but why would you?!
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Please don't take this the wrong way, but using bumper cam is nothing like the experience of driving a real car either. Unless of course you have a camera mounted on the front of your car and view a screen while driving. I use chase cam with a wheel and consider myself a rather fast driver. There are advantages like seeing other cars around you and the corner apex when behind other cars. Unless you're using VR or triple monitors you are not going to get a proper driving representation.

All I'm saying is there is no reason to use one camera view over another to gain a speed advantage. It's best to use whatever you're comfortable with. It sounds like @NevilleNobody is experiencing a problem with his wheel or he just needs more practice. Either way I say stick with it. Because even though you can be fast with a controller, a wheel can give you better control of the car and is a lot more fun. :D
 
Chevy Heavy
Please don't take this the wrong way, but using bumper cam is nothing like the experience of driving a real car either. Unless of course you have a camera mounted on the front of your car and view a screen while driving. I use chase cam with a wheel and consider myself a rather fast driver. There are advantages like seeing other cars around you and the corner apex when behind other cars. Unless you're using VR or triple monitors you are not going to get a proper driving representation.

All I'm saying is there is no reason to use one camera view over another to gain a speed advantage. It's best to use whatever you're comfortable with. It sounds like @NevilleNobody is experiencing a problem with his wheel or he just needs more practice. Either way I say stick with it. Because even though you can be fast with a controller, a wheel can give you better control of the car and is a lot more fun. :D
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I use a wheel and chase cam as well and I am very fast using that view, and there is nothing wrong using that and I also think that @NevilleNobody just have to get use to the wheel.
 
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I would argue that it almost doesn't matter which view you use when it comes to pure timekeeping, as everyone is different and can therefore adjust to different views and timings required for corners.

However, I believe or know from some tests that it is very difficult if you have been driving with the bumper view for years, for example, to get used to other views in the same game.
However, if you start another game with different physics, this effect is not or hardly available.

The T150 has a rather weak feedback when you come from the "stick to the sliding friction". That's a fact and can cause problems, but I don't think the PS4 controller can show it any better.
 
Chevy Heavy
Please don't take this the wrong way, but using bumper cam is nothing like the experience of driving a real car either. Unless of course you have a camera mounted on the front of your car and view a screen while driving. I use chase cam with a wheel and consider myself a rather fast driver. There are advantages like seeing other cars around you and the corner apex when behind other cars. Unless you're using VR or triple monitors you are not going to get a proper driving representation.

All I'm saying is there is no reason to use one camera view over another to gain a speed advantage. It's best to use whatever you're comfortable with. It sounds like @NevilleNobody is experiencing a problem with his wheel or he just needs more practice. Either way I say stick with it. Because even though you can be fast with a controller, a wheel can give you better control of the car and is a lot more fun. :D
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I don't use bumper cam view, but an in-car view. And of course it's not exactly like driving a real car ... but it's a hell of a lot closer than driving using chase view!

I also don't doubt that it's possible to drive fast using chase cam & a wheel ... the fact that some sim racers are incredibly fast using a pad is a clear indication that different tools can be used to produce impressive results. However ... if you're playing a sim racing game to try and get close to the feel of driving a car IRL, using a wheel - and preferably a good wheel/pedals/shifter - is going to get you much, much closer to that feel. Using a good wheel set with chase cam really doesn't make any sense, regardless of how fast you can get.
 
A lot to absorb here, i won't bother multi quoting as it will mean a super long post.

  • I use chase cam because i can see the other cars better, same reason anyone uses chase can. In car has so many blind spots but i will try the bumper view
  • The car i amusing is irrelevant, it's the same car i set my fastest time with the week before, i am very comfortable in it, it's the mustang
  • I am not going to move to TC0 until i get used to the wheel, why change a variable, this is not about "getting faster" it's about matching my controller time
  • Thanks for the tip on the controller setting, had no idea this impacted the wheel!
  • I am using the basic pedals, they are brutal
  • I will plug her in for a firmware update as suggested, i do wish there was a deadzone adjustment
  • For the record, I have some real life track time, not a lot but a bit, so have some idea what a real car feels like. Was a low powered sports sedan and an open wheeler similar to a Formula ford (less power though)
  • I'll keep plugging away, i am less concerned with being slow than i am with the uncertainty i have on corner entry, i can't hit my makrs and i am over shooting or undercutting entry. Exit is CTULALY EASIER AS i NOW HAVE THROTTLE CONTROL WHICH I DON'T WITH THE x BUTTON. Damn caps.
 
The Base Throtle+Break Pedals are very sh..
You cant Setup anything on this things. You are Sure your Pedals are 100% OK. My Pedals Quit her Job after ~5-6 Weeks of using. My Throtle dont give then 100% of Power, so i'm always a litle bit slower then before. The Pedal wasn't on the right Position then, it was a litle bit lower, so i can pull it up to Zero.
Maybe this is also an Problem.
 
Nah they work fine but i can't feel the car pulling up. I KNOW that is weird because you don't feel it on a controller but with wheel in hand i think my senses are expecting to feel it right. It's that point where you load up the front of the car and you feel you are on the limit, then you lift and turn in (unless tail braking) and that transition, i can't feel when it is right to do it.

See, with the controller, again X and box buttons, i drive weird and need to untrain myself. To clarify, I set BB usually quite a ways forward and REALLY chuck the car into the corner, my entry is extremely aggressive to combat the inherent controller understeer, and I turn as I brake sometimes. But there's VERY little off throttle oversteer with controller, the wheel has a lot more. Getting used to that makes me hesitant, so wheel adjustment aside, i lack aggressiveness, losing time each corner.
 
watto79
Are you still using chase cam? I find the wheel completely unusable in chase cam. Maybe try with bumper and hood cams for a bit?
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I, too, prefer the front bumper view as it includes a mirror view and it is quite uncluttered for facilitating my assessment of my car placement. I recognize that this is not realistic like the in-car view, but I value its utility more than my adherence to realism.

NevilleNobody
You know what, i thought of that too, i'll change it up tonight.
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You, if you prefer the chase cam view, might investigate option settings for this view. I recall a setting for adjusting the apparent reactionary delay of the car's vectoring direction; I'm hoping that this setting isn't for another game.

Mudda Chod
From your video, I would suggest...

1. Learn to drive with Traction Control OFF. It takes time, but you will be faster eventually. With TC1 you will be 1-2 seconds slower good driving with TC0.

2. Your lines are pretty good, also your throttle control is good, but I didn't see much use of Trail Braking.

3. Not sure what car that is, but usually there's a reason for the meta... Supra was fastest qualifying this week, closely followed by RCZ, so why punish yourself with a slower car... "In race" is a different story since slipstream and overtaking zones play a large part of the strategy.
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I advise your adopting this advice from Point 1. My opinion, as it applies to myself, is that if I cannot drive competently a car with TC=0, I either resist driving it or I git gooder.

This moves us along to Point 2. Practice will improve your ability and your reliability. Remember that you can save races not only to view your own performance, but also to view the specter of any aliens present👽.
Your lines do seem nice; you exhibit good patience in the very slow corners of the latter section. Because of your use of TC, I cannot accurately judge your throttle control. This is important because you can't either. Practice to be able to judge the feedback that a wheel provides at the limit & beyond. If your schedule permits, do not use races exhaustively as practice for technique.
Your turn in for the sweepers seems well timed. As you get better, so will your timing.
I predict that braking performance will be one of the last places where you "find time". Anyone can smash the accelerator pedal; you must be not only fast, but quick. This happens when you have better speed when you aren't "standing on the gas". This also allows form more passing opportunities.
That Driver61 chap, excellent follow!

Regarding Point 3, your car choice is yours. As they say, "your mileage may vary". Choosing meta is giving yourself a fighting chance. Selecting otherwise can be a challenge; not only for obtaining a particular result, but also for your increased ability to evaluate different cars (as GT presents them to us).

Good luck & keep up the good work. 👍
 
NevilleNobody
A lot to absorb here, i won't bother multi quoting as it will mean a super long post.

  • I'll keep plugging away, i am less concerned with being slow than i am with the uncertainty i have on corner entry, i can't hit my makrs and i am over shooting or undercutting entry. Exit is CTULALY EASIER AS i NOW HAVE THROTTLE CONTROL WHICH I DON'T WITH THE x BUTTON. Damn caps.
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Sorry, I was composing my reply while at work. I was called to a job before competing my posting. You posted again before I did. 🤷‍♂️

Remember that you must contextualize your technique based on ever changing conditions. Most importantly, you must remember that you almost never accomplish a "perfect lap". Therefore, your markers will move dynamically based on what is happening.

For example, you get a draft down a long full throttle section or you had an excellent exit from the preceding corner. Your corner approach speed will be higher - brake a bit sooner. Your tires are near the end of their stint, brake a bit sooner and maybe a bit softer. You are the pursuer, maybe brake sooner & adjust your apex for a great exit.
Finding pace while enduring suboptimal performance is a test of the application of compromise. Balance on a knife's edge is filled with treachery.

I sympathize with controller drivers. They sometimes frustrate me, but I am fortunate to be able to afford & to use a wheel. I've played GT since Bill Clinton was US president. I've used a wheel for the past six years; it feels so natural now.
Keep plugging away. If you enjoy it, you might be doing it right. 🏎
 
It's possible there's something wrong with the wheel. Other than that, if you've spent hundreds of hours driving with a controller using chase view, it's not surprising that it might take some time to adjust to the wheel & cockpit, dash or bumper cam. It's certainly true that chase view gives the most situational awareness, which may help you in traffic, but obviously it's not "realistic". Dealing with more limited peripheral vision is something you have to deal with & one thing making sim racing less like RL racing, unless you have VR headset or triple screen. Whenever I have tried driving with a wheel in chase view, I find my inputs are wildly overdone, but as I said, it's possible to adjust to anything ... the question is: why would you? I think you would be better off adjusting to "first person" view if you're going to continue with a wheel.
 
NevilleNobody
  • Thanks for the tip on the controller setting, had no idea this impacted the wheel!
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He's wrong about that. Controller sensitivity setting does not have any affect on the wheel. As it states...it's for the controller.
Biggles
It's possible there's something wrong with the wheel. Other than that, if you've spent hundreds of hours driving with a controller using chase view, it's not surprising that it might take some time to adjust to the wheel & cockpit, dash or bumper cam. It's certainly true that chase view gives the most situational awareness, which may help you in traffic, but obviously it's not "realistic". Dealing with more limited peripheral vision is something you have to deal with & one thing making sim racing less like RL racing, unless you have VR headset or triple screen. Whenever I have tried driving with a wheel in chase view, I find my inputs are wildly overdone, but as I said, it's possible to adjust to anything ... the question is: why would you? I think you would be better off adjusting to "first person" view if you're going to continue with a wheel.
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Believe it or not, some people play the game for fun and aren't as concerned as you about realism. Neville is asking for help and we are all discussing troubleshooting his potential mechanical and technical issues...and you're going on and on about realism and which view he's choosing to use. Read the room.

edit: and for the record, I'm a wheel user and use chase cam as well. I'm not slow and I can also vouch for @Chevy Heavy he's a fast boi.
 
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