Has Forza 3 suppressed you appetite for GT5?

[Taurim]

Same feeling the The Jenius for my modified Nissan 350Z I use frequently for track days. I compare it to Opera 350Z in the GT5P (modified to have the same alignment) and I have recreated it with the same parts and alignment in FM3.

My real car is very easy to drift and to push at the limit on track. The real car feels very light (although it is not). No snap oversteer. No understeer on slow corner entry.

In GT5P it feels like a boat ! It is totally wrong on slow hairpins and drifting with it is a pain compared to reality.

My 350Z in FM3 is not perfect either. It feels a little bit too heavy on slow airpins entry (less than GT5P). A little bit too much snap oversteer at the limit. Drifting with it is a little bit too easy but closer to reality I think.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Snorza 3 has not suppressed my appetite for Gran Turismo 5. I do not own a 360. I've never played the game, and I probably never will. If I get really tired of waiting, I'll just start a new GT4 profile.

Oh, we can do that too. Bland Turismo. That was great! 👎

 

[pricey2003]

I can't game while I'm at work but I can surf the internet, which is why I'm here. Any more questions?

Yeah i have a question.....

How many hours do you work a day? Because i have just had a look at your first post and last post each day......

Saturday
Oct 31 2009, 8:08 AM
Oct 31 2009, 11:46 PM

Sunday
Nov 01 2009, 8:22 AM
Nov 01 2009, 8:53 PM

Monday
Nov 02 2009, 7:41 AM
Nov 02 2009, 9:06 PM

Tuesday
Nov 03 2009, 7:03 AM
Nov 03 2009, 10:18 PM

Wednesday
Yesterday, 7:48 AM
Yesterday, 9:03 PM

So you either work extremly long hours, 7 days a week....

Or you are a liar.

Just for the record i wouldn't recommend either.

So I can leave this place, obviously!

Otherwise, until I get Forza 3 or GT5 (which is the less likely option), I will stay on this subforum for a good while.

Oh, and you got your response from Joey D.

No one is stopping you from leaving. And yes i got a response.

I am still waiting for an answer

 

[Bogie 19th]

Or you are a liar.

👎

 

[Joey D]

Yeah i have a question.....

How many hours do you work a day? Because i have just had a look at your first post and last post each day......

Saturday
Oct 31 2009, 8:08 AM
Oct 31 2009, 11:46 PM

Sunday
Nov 01 2009, 8:22 AM
Nov 01 2009, 8:53 PM

Monday
Nov 02 2009, 7:41 AM
Nov 02 2009, 9:06 PM

Tuesday
Nov 03 2009, 7:03 AM
Nov 03 2009, 10:18 PM

Wednesday
Yesterday, 7:48 AM
Yesterday, 9:03 PM

So you either work extremly long hours, 7 days a week....

Or you are a liar.

Just for the record i wouldn't recommend either.

Wow this is pretty funny, I have my own stalker now...SWEET!

But I lie about working? I wish! I would love to sit home all day and do nothing.

I leave for work around 8-8:15am and get home around 5-5:15pm. I work Monday through Friday. I work about 8 hours each day and I typically do not work on the weekends, although there are times when I do. Like I said though, I have down time at work some days so I patrol the internet. Anything else you want to know about my personal life or are you just going to stalk me some more? Either way is cool because I've always wanted my own stalker...makes me feel famous.

But when I'm not at work it doesn't mean I come right home and fire up my gaming system. I do other things with my time then game. I also sit on my computer a lot because there are times when I want to watch the TV or my girlfriend is here and is using the TV. Like right now, I want to watch the nightly news so I have the TV on and obviously I'm in front of my computer.

I still fail to see how this demonstrates that Forza is only a time killer before GT is release, and a rather poor one at that. If you could explain this to me I'd be curious to see your reasoning behind it.

 

[Seismica]

*snip*

💡

You missed the part where he can use the forum at home, aswell as at work.

Often when i play GT5P i have my laptop on next to me, the loading screens are long enough to read a few posts

 

[Bogie 19th]

💡

You missed the part where he can use the forum at home, aswell as at work.

Often when i play GT5P i have my laptop on next to me, the loading screens are long enough to read a few posts

My racing wheel is attached to a card table. The card table holds my drinks and my laptop. Looks like we do the same things 👍

 

[Joey D]

💡

You missed the part where he can use the forum at home, aswell as at work.

He missed a lot of things. Like how I can access the forums from my iPhone as well.

But you guys brought up a good point too, I often have my laptop next to me while gaming so I can look stuff up. When I was playing GT I often had GTP opened to get tuning settings or look up photomode contest themes.

 

[pricey2003]

Then you lied in the 1st post, simple.

I wouldn't flatter yourself too soon on the stalker part my friend as it only took me about 3-5 minutes to check, copy and paste after reading your post. I wound not have even bothered if you didnt put "any more questions"

I dont feel you need to explain to me your daily routine in life either, besides, how can i believe anything you say to me now after misleading me earlier?

Now, regarding my post opinion, it is exactly that, my opinion. And you know what they say.

Opinions are like 🤬, everybody has one.

👎

Opinions are like 🤬, everybody knows one.

He missed a lot of things. Like how I can access the forums from my iPhone as well.

But you guys brought up a good point too, I often have my laptop next to me while gaming so I can look stuff up. When I was playing GT I often had GTP opened to get tuning settings or look up photomode contest themes.

Whats that internet word all the cool kids use?

Facepalm or something?

I can't game while I'm at work but I can surf the internet, which is why I'm here. Any more questions?

Well whatever it is, thats what im doing right now

 

[Joey D]

Then you lied in the 1st post, simple.

I wouldn't flatter yourself too soon on the stalker part my friend as it only took me about 3-5 minutes to check, copy and paste after reading your post. I wound not have even bothered if you didnt put "any more questions"

I dont feel you need to explain to me your daily routine in life either, besides, how can i believe anything you say to me now after misleading me earlier?

Now, regarding my post opinion, it is exactly that, my opinion. And you know what they say.

Opinions are like 🤬, everybody has one.

Oh man, I've been waiting to use this in a post for a while now, thanks 👍!

Is this post you are talking about? This is the first post I made in this thread.

Yes, I honestly don't care when GT5 comes out now because I foresee Forza keeping my racing video game fix for a very long time. Granted I will have numerous other games sprinkled in there as well.

How in the gods' names do you come to the conclusion I was misleading you? Forza has kept my fix with racing games and honestly I don't care when GT5 comes out. I made it fairly clear that I will have other games mixed in there, as right now I'm playing through Dragon Age: Origin and Risen.

As this post:

I can't game while I'm at work but I can surf the internet, which is why I'm here. Any more questions?

There is nothing misleading about that either, I can't play games while I'm at work, but I can surf the internet. Since GTP is the biggest time waster I know I choose to spend most of my online time here reading about different games and discussing anything from politics to the latest car news.

So any more questions my dear stalker?

Whats that internet word all the cool kids use?

Facepalm or something?

Facepalm? Over what? That I use technology to its fullest?

 

[Devedander]

💡

You missed the part where he can use the forum at home, aswell as at work.

Often when i play GT5P i have my laptop on next to me, the loading screens are long enough to read a few posts

Do you have it all setup in the bathroom with a microwave next to you like me too????

Wait did I just share too much info?

 

[Azuremen]

Then you lied in the 1st post, simple.

I wouldn't flatter yourself too soon on the stalker part my friend as it only took me about 3-5 minutes to check, copy and paste after reading your post. I wound not have even bothered if you didnt put "any more questions"

I dont feel you need to explain to me your daily routine in life either, besides, how can i believe anything you say to me now after misleading me earlier?

Now, regarding my post opinion, it is exactly that, my opinion. And you know what they say.

Opinions are like 🤬, everybody has one.

Opinions are like 🤬, everybody knows one.

Whats that internet word all the cool kids use?

Facepalm or something?

Well whatever it is, thats what im doing right now

I can't fathom how you made the massive failures of logic resulting in the above post.

My advice - just stop. Now. Before you look more like a troll, or stalker, or whatever it is you are doing.

 

[pricey2003]

Nope, no more questions from me. You have answered enough for me to make my mind up of what catagory you fall under.

 

[Azuremen]

Nope, no more questions from me. You have answered enough for me to make my mind up of what catagory you fall under.

A well known and respected member of this community? Because I can't see any other conclusion a rational person could come to.

 

[Diego440]

A well known and respected member of this community?

You got one of those right.

Spoiler

Oh come on!

 

[Nicholas9889]

My racing wheel is attached to a card table. The card table holds my drinks and my laptop. Looks like we do the same things 👍

what do you use for a seat? I want to get a g25 but i dont know exactly how im gonna set it up

 

[astrosdude91]

Oh, we can do that too. Bland Turismo. That was great! 👎

I liked Snorza. "Bland" Turismo is ok but doesn't fit quite right. To be fair, when I posted Snorza, I tried to think of a good one for GT.

 

[Simple SIM]

Now that Forza 3 has been out for a while, I've seen the extremely high review scores it's got and put about 40 hours into it so far. I have to say it's THE best racing game I've ever played. Better than any previous GT games aswell.

It's so good that I'd be shocked if GT 5 can manage to beat it.

I wouldn't be surprised if after all this waiting when GT 5 finally does come out, it may not beat the competition and many of us will go right back to Forza.

Never thought I'd say something like this but, yeah, Forza 3 is THAT good.

 

[myke6699]

I liked Snorza. "Bland" Turismo is ok but doesn't fit quite right. To be fair, when I posted Snorza, I tried to think of a good one for GT.

Unlike Bland, Snorza is not a word. Bland is kinda bland, Snorza is kinda brilliant because it's not a word. Whoever came up with Bland, needs to spend less time being so defensive because it's getting kinda bland and kinda predictable.

 

[Scaff]

OK the fanboy behavior, the pointless insult to each other and mocking game titles stop right now.

One person in this little tet-a-tet has already earned an infraction for it, anyone (and I do mean anyone) who continues along these lines will join them.


Scaff

 

[Grant U. Rismo]

Forza 3 is absolutely incredible and at the same time absolutely disappointing at the same time.

This game has at the same time "more than suppressed my appetite" and "increased my appetite" for GT5.

There are some things that Forza does that blows the GT series out of the park in, these areas I feel that the GT series will never be able to compete in. And then, there are areas where I don't think the Forza series will ever compare with when compared to GT (obvious things, like graphics).

I'm at the point where I really, really hope Kaz plays and experiences all aspects of Forza 3. He could learn so much in regards to how some things are implemented.

First off, the physics are fantastic. Definitely a notch above Prologue. It plays excellently with the MS Wheel, and because of this game I've decided to get a Fanatec wheel instead of a G27 this Christmas. The tire based physics system a la Live for Speed really shine in this game and it's the first console racer I've played that can compare to PC sims. It's not perfect. I do agree to some extent that the suspension is a tad too hard. When I tune the suspension to be a little bit softer, it handles exactly how I expect it to. The tire deformation aspect is much like LFS. By various means you can allow more give in the tires and it can hold traction slightly better and affects your slip angles but at the same time affects the responsiveness of your maneuvering.

Graphics were improved over FM2 I guess but still don't look photorealistic. The tracks look great and breathtaking in cases. Quite a few tracks are over 10km and they're not bare either. They have beautifully rendered water with rockside cliffs that you actually drive up and down. This same track has a rough road course akin to Eiger (where you have the road paved roughly that have curbs you want to stay away from) and then it blends into another course found in the game which is a racing circuit, and then that blends into another training-esque circuit. The cars themselves look realistic...but up close they are somewhat disappointing. Rather low poly if you ask me. From a distance it can look good but when the camera gets closer the low poly of the cars affect the lighting and you can see individual triangles getting lit. Interiors aren't bad actually. Not as good as Shifts or Prologue's but I really like how weight reductions affect how your cockpit looks like. Add a rollcage to your car and you can actually see it in cockpit view. The driving animations leave much to be desired. No shifting animations and 180 degree steering lock when the driver steers. Very, very basic. What makes up for this is being able to adjust your FOV to get the perfect view.

Tracks are great for the most part. As people have mentioned Suzuka looks off in some straights and corners and yes it could be the "elevation". Still looks fairly realistic though and Suzuka is always a great track to race on. I like some of the other real-world tracks not offered in GT. Their fantasy tracks are very, very good. They look impressive (yet at the same time cartoony in my eyes) but the layouts are just incredible. As I mentioned these go over 10km and have all sorts of climbs, peaks, banks, turns...I like racing these as much as I like racing the Ring!

Sounds are incredible as well. I think Project Gotham really nailed engine/exhaust sound and Supercar Challenge nailed chassis sound, but this game does both very well and of course better than the GT series. Tire sounds are very good. You can hear how your tires are behaving at all times and it can help you predict when you are about to spin out or lose traction. At times I feel that the sounds in this game can help you be a better driver whereas in GT you don't get the same feeling and start losing traction before realizing it with audio cues. Speaking of which, one audio cue missing is when you are drafting someone. In Prologue, though I did think it was too loud, it was very useful to know when you were getting a lot of drag and when you were in a slipstream. I haven't noticed anything like this here. All other sounds were great though. Very impressive.

TELEMETRY...simply fantastic. PLEASE KAZ TAKE NOTES!

Online play...almost as bad as Prologue! FM2 had a pretty good online setup but this one regressed because of the decision to simplify it into a Halo-esque sort of Matchmaking setup. You can create a custom server but you can't search for them. So you need to have friends wanting to join your party. By the way the Party mode on Xbox Live is something Sony needs to put on PSN, stat! But you can't find new racers to be friends with, so... They messed up on this aspect. Plus, the grid is arranged by PI (performance) rather than lap times, and there is no way to set up a qualifier. This area was a COMPLETE disappointment. This is where racing sims are really played. This is where they shine. I felt ****ing BETRAYED when Prologue came out with ****** online play and I'm very close to feeling the same way here. Leaderboard system is still very good and something that I really hope is implemented as well in GT5.

Drag racing...I'm not a big fan of drag racing but I've read from others that it's pretty bare bones. It is a fun mode though and I'm glad that GT5 will have it. If PD can improve on this then all the better. If they get a Drag mode pretty similar to this, I'll still be happy.

The career mode is addictive and varied. I think this is one area that GT5 won't compare in. I don't think I have the time to go in-depth here, but it's stellar. The amount of flexibility to do what you want, but at the same time try new things, it's how racers like this should be. You gain XP throughout the whole process and that XP translates to parts makers and car makers offering you discounts on cars/parts. As you level up you are gifted cars. The AI is pretty tough on hard and it's great. They actually respond to how you drive. If you brake early they aren't going to ram you from behind they'll either slow down or attempt to pass you on the inside. They look for numerous passing opportunities and they are certainly more realistic than most sims. Not perfect by a long shot (while they all have some driving characteristics in how aggressive they are in taking corners, they don't adapt their line depending on the sort of cars they are driving). Whenever you finish any race, you get to see how you compared to the rest of the world and to your friends. You also can have a list of people you "follow" so you don't have to add them to your friends list but you can still see their progress.

Car and track selection are great. Car selection is very varied and I think they did a good job picking 400 interesting cars. There is promise of more cars via DLC, but they'd better be cheap. GT5 will have more concept cars and more cars in general so I don't think there's any competition on that front. But the 400 cars found in Forza 3 will last me a while due to how customizable they are performance wise. Track wise it's really good for the most part. There is a massive number of them and they are also quite varied. I think their Nurburgring is the best videogame representation of the track thus far. That is, until GT5's version comes out. Up until Forza 3 I still regarded GT4's rendition as the best.

Livery editor is fantastic and I've seen some very hot cars online but it doesn't interest me as a user. What did interest me was that when I got a new car, I could go on the storefront and using my in-game credits buy their designs and slap them on my car. Some people make very wicked racing liveries for cars you wouldn't expect them on. You can make your freaking Yaris look like something out of ALMS.

And I have to mention the menus, they are lightning quick and look sexy. Can't ask for more than that. I was playing through Career and just before you race there is no option to tune your car. I was disappointed because when you take a car and you see what track you are racing, you're going to want to make some adjustments. An option then and there would, I thought, be very convenient. But when I popped out of that screen to go to the tuning screen, it was lighting quick despite being on a whole 2 seperate menus over. I took this to the extreme and found that if I pop in a button combo like I was playing Tekken I could go from entering a race to painting the rims of my car in 2 seconds. It's worth mentioning because it makes the menus of Prologue and Supercar Challenge look archaic and disgustingly slow. This sort of stuff can really spoil someone.

So the game is great. If you are a sim fan it will hit the spot. Play it with a wheel and you WILL think this is the greatest racer you have ever played thus far.

But at the same time you might be thinking, "Wow, if only I could play this with GT5's graphics". At that end, you will crave GT5 even more. The new shots coming out certainly don't help. You might also think, "Wow, I'd love to race Tsukuba with a field of 16 racers and not just 8". Again, you'll crave GT5 more. When racing the Ring you might think to yourself, "I'd love to see how the FT-86 does here"...you'll crave GT5.

So it's an excellent game and it hits the spot. To a certain extent, if I found that GT5 was delayed to Fall 2010, I would not be that angry and would be more than happy to spend more time with Forza 3. At the same time, it makes you crave things like weather, night racing, larger grids...things that GT5 will offer. In that respect you'll want GT5 sooner.

 

[cicohipe]

Nice read Grant, although it's interesting what you say about loading screen as i have heard quite the opposite. I will find out for myself tomorrow though, and i have to say im really looking forward to play FM3. Althought i won't have the opportunity to play it with a wheel, i havn't played GT5P with a wheel either, so will make for a fair comparison.

A note on Multiplayer. This matchmaking feature that games are moving towards is very disturbing indeed, what on earth could make companies think that it is a good option to give us less options? We want lobbies! That being said GT5 has promised lobbies, and i really hope it takes a good look at some of the PC sims too and has qualifying as an option.

 

[Taurim]

That is a pefect review Grant 👍

Menus are lightning fast. The only thing which is slow is the loading time before the start of the race.

As for online play, I was so disgusted by GT5P anonymous online play (players !) that I don't looked at it in FM3. I don't want to do anonymous online races ever again !
From what I've read it is as bad as GT5P and it's not either games fault.

On the other side online racing with friends is absoutely perfect and easy to use. There is 4 screens of options to set (I you wan't) to customize your online race. But the defaults are OK. Permanent voice chat with your friends (wether you are in a race or not) if of course the No 1 feature any online racer should have.

 

[Seismica]

The thing about the online... GT5Ps online was their first attempt, it was kind of like an online Beta test if you will. Since its release we have seen the online in prologue greatly improved

From this:

[youtubehd]JReeD05s02k[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]lkuAj_EAv-Y[/youtubehd]

To this:

[youtubehd]pRfT2GIWXvI[/youtubehd]

[youtubehd]xYiy7QtVhNI[/youtubehd]

I tried to show an old build and a recent build with relatively full grids. Lots of lag on those first vids (note the date, December 2007, so spec I), little to none on the second set of vids (within the last couple of months or so, so spec III)

We already know we will have Private lobbies. They have seen Turn10's mistake in not including public lobbies in FM3, resulting in a worse online experience than Forza 2. I think PD would be unwise to just slap some basic online features together and be done with it, they need to give GT fans a good reason to play online.

 

[Bogie 19th]

He missed a lot of things. Like how I can access the forums from my iPhone as well.

Does the iPhone find a mobile version of this site? Seems like when I tried, the site looked like any non-mobile site in Safari

Menus are lightning fast. The only thing which is slow is the loading time before the start of the race.

Have you installed Disk 1? That made load times quicker for me.

 

[Seismica]

Even when loading from the disc, Forza 3 is faster, for two basic reasons.

1: The tracks and cars take up less space, so there is less stuff to load, and there is less of the cars aswell
2: The Xbox 360 DVD drive reads around 1.5x faster than the PS3's blu-ray drive.

But if you install the entire game onto the hardrive there should be little to no difference between the loading times, although you can expect dramatic improvement from both games when installed onto the HDD.

As for the ingame menus, well we will have to wait and see, hopefully PD have done something to improve the loading times. But i think the HD car backgrounds on the menus have something to do with it...

 

[Bogie 19th]

But if you install the entire game onto the hardrive there should be little to no difference between the loading times,

Mine loads about twice as fast with the actual disk 1 installed to the HDD.

 

[Seismica]

Mine loads about twice as fast with the actual disk 1 installed to the HDD.

I meant between the two games I didn't write that very clearly did i

Installed games always load quicker, unless you have a disc drive capable of reading at ridiculous speeds

Blu-ray and DVD drives on the consoles read at around 10-15 MB/sec, but with a 7200rpm hardrive, the read speed is around 70MB/sec. Now if you load from the HDD and the disc at the same time, you're talking 80-85MB/s, which is around 8 times faster from loading from the disc alone.

Obvious FM3 loads quicker for menus, no high defintion background in menus, but for the actual race the difference isn't noticeable.

 

[Bogie 19th]

Oh, between the two. Sorry, my bad. Yeah, it doesn't affect the actual racing (of course), it just gets TO the racing screen faster (the loading is faster).

 

[Gilly]

Not exactly a regular on here but I do browse so not sure how important my views are? but anyway, my take on a good thread by Hugo24.

I was really impressed with FM3 after the showing at E3 and felt like it was a bigger improvement visually atleast as to what I probably imagined and personally as I'm sure it varies for every console sim racer out there but the Forza series is the only other one I've been into as much as Gran Turismo. The feel of the game and how it controlled felt nice with a good use of physics with all the assists off bar ABS but still remained a fun racer as if your fighting the controls or feel of a game it's just not fun.

Having played FM3 since release day and spent alot of time in various cars from hatchbacks to full on Le Mans racers and everthing in between, tried the cockpit view and others and played all the tracks on offer I have to say honestly, as enjoyable as FM3 is it's not for this generation atleast the benchmark driving game just based on what I've seen so far with GT5.

I think it's fair to say the GT series has not innovated enough over the last few versions and anyone that has played all versions since the first will accept that, just having more cars and tracks with improved graphics isn't enough anymore, but what you do with those cars and tracks and how you structure an exciting SP and MP experience with features that will raise the bar and take the series in a new direction is.

Having not played GT5 Prologue for some time I booted it up to see how close I thought FM3 was by comparsion, bearing in mind one is final retail game and one is I guess a public beta it was still clear which one was the best. I was again instantly impressed with not only visual quality of the graphics and textures but also the physics and feel of the game and I'm talking about GT5P!

I'm honestly a fan of both games and think it's good for GT to have competition and Vice Versa before I have the FM3 fans trying to kill me lol. I think it's fair to say either it's the fact GT5 is running at a higher resolution, is using more polygons on car models both interior and exterior aswell as for the tracks or the fact it has a more realistic real World color pallette where FM3 is at times too over exposed with it's use of lighting and color? and possiblt all of the above.

Cockpit vs cockpit GT5P has a much nicer view, the deffault on FM3 is set at 45 degress vs by comparison GT5P's between 60-70 give or take. Yes you can adjust this detail in FM3 but by doing so your also effecting the sense of speed that the game has and as a result you simply do not get a sense of realistic speed compared to that in GT5P. The cockpits are also more bland and basic in terms of detailing and texture work but I would like to see GT5 with the ability to remove certain HUD details which cover this up aswell as being able to read the rev and speed dials more easily as it is too dark in GT5P and no it's not my TV setting being too dark.

Damage wise with what I've seen from GT5 so far and considering it has quite a few more months in development I think it will be superior to that of FM3 as it hasn't really moved ahead over FM2 which 2 years ago was exciting and game changing considering no GT game has had it so far but now asside form rollover which does no more than scrape the paint off a car roof you have the same model as before, some bumbers due to certain car makers demands do not fall of and others do, the same for windows and bonet and boot deformation but if you hit a wall head on at over 100 mph damage is not very realitic in general and I hope Polyphony is true to their word and implenet damage as they can model it as accuratly as the other aspects of the game!

Sound wise FM3 is good with a big exception! bugs, head over to Forza forums and alot of people are having them with sticky sound for contact, crashes, and the most annoying, static pops and hisses in game menu and in game due to poor sound sampling work, addmited to and passed by MS and Turn 10 quality control and shipped with this known problem so as nice as some of the engine samples are give the game to much to do like going over rumble strips and accelerating and you get brief static pop sounds through your sound system. no patch or fix is currently being sorted to rectify this.

I think by comparison GT5 needs a change with vehicle samples, those in GT5P seem too quiet in any view, expecially the likes of big V8's or cars you have been in or driven in real life that just don't sound like they should in game, things like the full bore sound of a Z06 or Viper aswell as cars with almost no sign of a supercharged whine when you know there should be and FM3 seems to do a better job with what I can compare it to on the GT front so far and I hope GT5 improves and nails this aspect, I don't want to see cars beefed up for no reason or sound louder than they should but want to be able to drive a car in game and say yes that sounds just like my m8's viper or yes that supercharger whine comes in right on time.

That being said there is some very strange sound samples going on with FM3, if you stick a race muffler on it sounds quiter but as stock alot of average cars sound far too sporty, very strange indeed.

FM3 is a good game and it will keep me interested as I've got a bit of a wait for GT5 but for me honestly i't not GT5 it's that simple and considering FM3 has been in development about 2 years compared to the figure of around 5 years with GT5 (that was the last thing I read not sure if it's accurate?) then it's no wonder GT5 will be a more accomplished game and one richer with features, I'm looking forward to better and hopefully more intricate damage modeling, better a.i, weather with rain whilst racing or wet tracks and a fully fledged online portion with the ability to connect to an online race quickly with also in depth options for private races and lobby's etc...

That is my honest view on FM3 and GT5 with some pro's and cons for each and I feel I've always had along wait for GT games so this one is no differet and would have welcomed a delay for FM3 too if i meant shipping a game without known sound issues that detrtact from hearing the audio work of all the cars, but I guess it was more important for MS to get the jump on Sony.