Have the 24H events lost meaning?

[the Interceptor]

When they need to let their 200W Playstation run for several days and nights, people care.

Just to put this in perspective, I did a few exemplifying calculations.

Case A: no save feature
Let's say I'm doing a 24h race starting on Saturday at noon. I drive 6h on Saturday, 6h on Sunday, 2.5h on Monday to Thursday and finish the race with the last 2h on Friday at 8pm. This means that the PS3 ran for a total of 152 hours. The average power consumption when paused is 185W according to several tests, during playing it should be around 200W. So it used 200W for 24 hours and 185W for the remaining 128 hours. This sums up to a power consumption of:

200W * 24h + 185W * 128h = 4,800Wh + 23,680Wh = 28,480Wh = 28.48kWh

With the current average price of 0.25 Eurocents per kWh in Germany, this would cost me 7.12 Euros for a 24h race without a save feature.


Case B: with save feature
So let's assume I do the same race during the same week, but I am able to save the game and turn off the PS3 inbetween. Including booting and shutting down, I should be at a total of 25h runtime of the console. Given that the absolute average is around 200W, this would sum up to:

200W * 25h = 5,000Wh = 5kWh

Given the aforementioned price of 0.25 Eurocents per kWh, this sums up to 1.25 Euros for a 24h race with a save feature.

So effectively, I pay an extra 5,87 Euros for each 24h race because I can not save during the race. This equals an extra power consumption of 23.48kWh. Whether this is offputting or not is in the eye of the beholder, but given that a lot of people have done several 24h races, I find this quite substantial. I mean let's say you're grinding to level 40, you can easily blow 25 or 30 Euros out of the window, which is half the game's cost in power consumption for the PS3 only.

 

[Antonisbob]

I was ectited to do the Le Mans in one of the new, 2010 cars, but the stupid amount of XP required has stopped me from doing that.

 

[U2Edge]

I did Grand Valley and Indy 500.

I'd love to do the 24hr ones, but I can't leave the ps3 on gt5 for days at a time. I don't want the old electrical system in my house to catch fire in the middle of the night and kill me in my sleep just so I can do a 24hr endurance.

Saving would be ideal, I know for realism sake a 24hr race is an endurance race, but everything else is fake! We don't put real fuel in the videogame car, we don't have to buy the in game cars with real money (fortunately!). It's only a game!

Respect to those who can complete the 24hr endurance over a period of days. The rest of us with working lives and families will have to hope for a save feature.

This is one case where realism is not welcome.

In reality, 24 hour endurance "teams" have multiple drivers doing multiple shifts. Unless you have Gran Turismo 5 "parties" with buddies, you don't have relief drivers.

In a perfect world, I've love to have multiple buddies who are race savvy and I could hold a GT5 enduro party and we'd do the 24 hour races in "shifts". Not sure if I know enough people (say four or five) that are local, know how to wheel a mean G27 and are up for the challenge.

And for those who long for a "competitive" endurance race -- it's a 24 hour event and we don't have "cautions" on GT5. There have been 24 hour enduros where the winner won by multiple laps. I swear I heard during the Rolex @ Daytona broadcast that there was a winner who won by 49 laps.

Since the AI is composed of a variety of cars, it'd be hard to find one that is just "competitive" for 24 hours without, at any point, either getting schooled or "checking out". 24 hours is a lot of time for "stuff to happen".

 

[tw99]

The way I see it, endurance race is a waste of time. Not only they give you BAD rewars they add to energy consumption, CO2 and global warming/cooling one or both at the same time.

On top of this wtf is the idea behind NB ring level 40 event? I guess 39 was not good enough? I guess it is more rewarding and fun to do it at 40 an not 38 or 37 when players could really use the XP and credits. I swear some people today want games to be not fun or its the Asian thing...grind untill you drop dead or your ps3 drops dead which ever comes first. Never were good at "thinking outside the box"

Here is an idea make lvl 40 fun event thats really worth doing and make leveling 40 worth the FING effort. OHH right we get to buy X1 at 40, guess what its dime a dozen in all the rainbow colors at lvl 1. The only people you FING up are the legit players.

And really no save during a race? I bet taht was really hard to code in with the 5 year development time and all. Maybe should spend less time on hookers and blow and do some actual work. Now that I think about it he was driving around in fancy cars doing blow and going from snack bar to snack bar (snack bar - japanese hooker establishment).

 

[tifoso_nz]

There's an idea for GT6 - snack bar to snack bar in your skyline in tokyo - with cut scenes!! Open world, no invisible walls. Or is that GTA V Tokyo?

 

[Piotrov]

Yeah no harm done mate - you were the unlucky one i quoted, i could of picked from a few posts so sorry i singled ya out i just wanted to make it clear that i am reasonable and can see that other people would appreciate a save feature.

I feel it takes away some of the 'aura' around the 24 Nurburgring though - considering it's at level 40 and your not forced to do it to progress through the game.

2-4 mates,decent wheel, some beers , pizza delivered i think you could make a reasonable night of it, the pressure to not crash at the late stages ( especially if done in a comparable car to A.I ) would be intense.

No worries.. I myself would absolutely love to do the 24 hour races however there is no way I can dedicate a full weekend to the race... And Pausing is not an option for me.

I really want to experience the race in its completenes however for me the only option is a save feature.. Unless there are other alternatives without leaving the system on for a prolonged period of time.

I dont want to take anything away from anyones game but a save feature wouldent really affect the hardcore... If you feel it takes away from the game you may just choose not to use it..

Altho I know that when you have it you feel compelled to use it thus making it feel like the experience is lost. I guess its a win and a lose no matter what side you take.

 

[sk0pe]

Just to put this in perspective, I did a few exemplifying calculations.

Case A: no save feature
Let's say I'm doing a 24h race starting on Saturday at noon. I drive 6h on Saturday, 6h on Sunday, 2.5h on Monday to Thursday and finish the race with the last 2h on Friday at 8pm. This means that the PS3 ran for a total of 152 hours. The average power consumption when paused is 185W according to several tests, during playing it should be around 200W. So it used 200W for 24 hours and 185W for the remaining 128 hours. This sums up to a power consumption of:

200W * 24h + 185W * 128h = 4,800Wh + 23,680Wh = 28,480Wh = 28.48kWh

With the current average price of 0.25 Eurocents per kWh in Germany, this would cost me 7.12 Euros for a 24h race without a save feature.


Case B: with save feature
So let's assume I do the same race during the same week, but I am able to save the game and turn off the PS3 inbetween. Including booting and shutting down, I should be at a total of 25h runtime of the console. Given that the absolute average is around 200W, this would sum up to:

200W * 25h = 5,000Wh = 5kWh

Given the aforementioned price of 0.25 Eurocents per kWh, this sums up to 1.25 Euros for a 24h race with a save feature.

So effectively, I pay an extra 5,87 Euros for each 24h race because I can not save during the race. This equals an extra power consumption of 23.48kWh. Whether this is offputting or not is in the eye of the beholder, but given that a lot of people have done several 24h races, I find this quite substantial. I mean let's say you're grinding to level 40, you can easily blow 25 or 30 Euros out of the window, which is half the game's cost in power consumption for the PS3 only.

Please tell me your kidding, right? I'm very 'enviromentally aware but 185W is the same as me leaving the toilet night on at night and the security light outside popping off.
I'm also all for saving money as i don't have a money tree in the backyard, but when i play my playstation or hear it humming away - consumption of power is the last thing i'm thinking about as i look around my house.
You have a fridge don't you?

If you really were concerned about power you wouldn't leave your 2400w fridge/freezer running 24hours just to keep your drinks cool.

 

[Ben78]

There was no save feature in GT4 either - the only other appearance of 24hr races in the series - so it hasn't changed. Except now you have a car faster than the PFGT to do the races.

People make what challenge they wish. Some don't enjoy the challenge and seek to diminish it, some do and seek to magnify it. Meh.

You could b-spec it and fast forward it, so it was close to 8 hours for a 24 hour race.

24 hours is just stupid, make a 20 minute race with 10 times the tire "damage" and fuel consumption. I find it hard to stay in front of the tv for 10 minutes, I did the Indy 500 and man... never again.

 

[BTBAM]

I don't think they ever had any meaning to begin with? I can't understand how anyone could find it fun to sit still for 24h with the same track in the same car
I have hated the endurance races since GT1 eventhough those days they were maybe 3h max and were doable (i did complete them in GT1 and GT2). I just don't understand the point?
I get bored in 10lap races especially if there is no challenge.
It doesn't take any skill IMO to complete these it's just so damn boring.
I hated the FGT cup because it was 20laps each race and the A.I. offers absolutely no challenge at all It was sad to watch them spin every other lap after the chicane in Nur:tdown:
What i'm saying here is that those endurance races are there just so that the devs can put X-number of laps in a race and sit lazy on their asses instead of giving us more races with less laps and more challenge.

 

[tw99]

GT4 was great you could be one of the drivers part of the team the whole 9 yards mambo jumbo.

Here they blew 5 year budget on crack and whores and all they can come up with in terms of playable content is A and B SEPERATE! that is some mind fign right there. You do the same race but with a AI DRIVER! So not only you do endurance race in A spec but if you want more content you can now do it in B SPEC TOO! So 24 hour race 10 times in A spec and now 10 times in B spec!

Awsome thinking but hey 5 mil copies sold I guess it worked.

 

[Ben78]

Please tell me your kidding, right? I'm very 'enviromentally aware but 185W is the same as me leaving the toilet night on at night and the security light outside popping off.
I'm also all for saving money as i don't have a money tree in the backyard, but when i play my playstation or hear it humming away - consumption of power is the last thing i'm thinking about as i look around my house.
You have a fridge don't you?

If you really were concerned about power you wouldn't leave your 2400w fridge/freezer running 24hours just to keep your drinks cool.

Oh yeah, a fridge is far from being a necessity, right ?

Can't believe that we're still talking endurance races after more than 2 months since GT5's release. Anything more than an hour is dumb and you have to be a loser to spend 4, 9 or 24 hours in front of your TV playing a game in virtual reality.

 

[BTBAM]

Awsome thinking but hey 5 mil copies sold I guess it worked.

That number will be significantly lower for GT6.
If people knew what they were getting there would be nowhere near 5mil sold for GT5 either.

 

[Hypo_Pylon]

Pausing it is all very well untill Mr Powercut comes along on the 23rd hr of your 24hr race.
Then all the naysayers will be like 🤬 and wishing PD had included that save game feature after all 💡

 

[Ricardinho_89]

PD should just add a save function or BOB for the two 24h endurance races 'cause those are really no-go, no fun, no nothing xp.

 

[Destinkeys]

A save feature with the necessity to continue within a specified timeframe is what would stay true to the spirit of the event. IRL, drivers are required to rest for an hour between four hour stints (roughly... varies a tad from series to series) and most 24 races are done by teams of three or more. That means four hours on and up to twelve hours off (if three other drivers). For me, I'd say emulating a three man team is a good balance. Four hours racing the game, save, then you MUST start back into it within eight hours, and no sooner than one.

Most of us could fit that in in a weekend.

If you have a party of drivers all willing to do the race in realtime, enter that into a checkbox, but then you get NO ability to save once you start. Or Pause, for that matter! If gametime is interrupted (by going out to the XMB, for example) you get a DSQ. Driver swaps in the pits (or I guess you can do it anytime, really, but pits would be 'keepin' it real')!

This all seems doable without a mountain of code.

Seem about right?

 

[Piotrov]

A save feature with the necessity to continue within a specified timeframe is what would stay true to the spirit of the event. IRL, drivers are required to rest for an hour between four hour stints (roughly... varies a tad from series to series) and most 24 races are done by teams of three or more. That means four hours on and up to twelve hours off (if three other drivers). For me, I'd say emulating a three man team is a good balance. Four hours racing the game, save, then you MUST start back into it within eight hours, and no sooner than one.

Most of us could fit that in in a weekend.

If you have a party of drivers all willing to do the race in realtime, enter that into a checkbox, but then you get NO ability to save once you start. Or Pause, for that matter! If gametime is interrupted (by going out to the XMB, for example) you get a DSQ. Driver swaps in the pits (or I guess you can do it anytime, really, but pits would be 'keepin' it real')!

This all seems doable without a mountain of code.

Seem about right?

It sounds like a good idea... the only problem I would have with this is that when im on a brake and the wife asked me to get something from the store, I wouldent want to race back and risk a ticket or worse, an accident just to make it back intime to not get diqualified..

Thats if I understood your Idea correctly.

 

[Destinkeys]

With up to eight hours to rejoin, I doubt a shopping trip or most weekend activities would place too heavy a burden. The whole POINT is, a 24hr race is a COMMITMENT. If you know your time is going to be shorter than that, start something shorter!

But to break a 24hr endurance event up into an unending series of tiny little sprints, spaced far apart makes a mockery of it being a 24 ENDURANCE race. All I see is, return the same degree of commitment that running one IRL would do...

 

[Exorcet]

A save feature with the necessity to continue within a specified timeframe is what would stay true to the spirit of the event. IRL, drivers are required to rest for an hour between four hour stints (roughly... varies a tad from series to series) and most 24 races are done by teams of three or more. That means four hours on and up to twelve hours off (if three other drivers). For me, I'd say emulating a three man team is a good balance. Four hours racing the game, save, then you MUST start back into it within eight hours, and no sooner than one.

Most of us could fit that in in a weekend.

If you have a party of drivers all willing to do the race in realtime, enter that into a checkbox, but then you get NO ability to save once you start. Or Pause, for that matter! If gametime is interrupted (by going out to the XMB, for example) you get a DSQ. Driver swaps in the pits (or I guess you can do it anytime, really, but pits would be 'keepin' it real')!

This all seems doable without a mountain of code.

Seem about right?

This is kind of silly. The whole point of saving and whatnot is to make the 24 hr race more flexible and accessible (and also realistic since 24 hr stints are banned).

The above gets realism down, or close enough anyway. But it seems to defeat the goal of accessibility. Yes, it is more accessible than now (if one minds leaving the PS3 on during pause breaks), but what point is there to making people act like they are real drivers? That should be a choice. PD should not, and should never attempt to make people play a certain way. However, they should allow for people to play certain ways.

If there is a save function, it should be a normal save function, ie, save be able to forget it about, and continue four months later. If someone was 8 hours in and decided they wanted to quit to do an entirely different race, and then come back into the 24 hr race right where they were before, fine (except it might take a while to code). How people play is up to them. There is no right way, other than what the individual player deems right.

 

[Piotrov]

I know what your saying and I totaly respect it..
However with life things do come up, wether its your kids or your wife or something totally unexpected.. I would hate to waste 22 hours just because I couldent make it back on in time to do my next stint...

I do want to experience the 24 hour race but not in a hardcore way like real race drivers. Its a game after all.

 

[Destinkeys]

This is kind of silly. The whole point of saving and whatnot is to make the 24 hr race more flexible and accessible (and also realistic since 24 hr stints are banned).

The above gets realism down, or close enough anyway. But it seems to defeat the goal of accessibility. Yes, it is more accessible than now (if one minds leaving the PS3 on during pause breaks), but what point is there to making people act like they are real drivers? That should be a choice. PD should not, and should never attempt to make people play a certain way. However, they should allow for people to play certain ways.

If there is a save function, it should be a normal save function, ie, save be able to forget it about, and continue four months later. If someone was 8 hours in and decided they wanted to quit to do an entirely different race, and then come back into the 24 hr race right where they were before, fine (except it might take a while to code). How people play is up to them. There is no right way, other than what the individual player deems right.

But that completely negates it from BEING a 24hr race. The thing is, what you want to do (a series of small sprints) is already possible in the game. I just get totally confused here at GTPlanet, with often the same people extolling the realism of the handling model, and how it is the 'ultimate' driving sim, etc., but then the same people turn around and don't want ANY accuracy of sim when it comes to the racing itself. I just wish people would make up their minds. Either it's a sim, and EVERYTHING is equally important, or it's an arcade game and NOTHING is...

I guess what I'm trying to get after is, if the game offers what you want (a series of small sprints taken at your leisure), why do you want to take something else, and turn it into the same thing? There are already PLENTY of short Nürburgring events, etc..

 

[Exorcet]

I guess what I'm trying to get after is, if the game offers what you want (a series of small sprints taken at your leisure), why do you want to take something else, and turn it into the same thing? There are already PLENTY of short Nürburgring events, etc..

No one has suggested that. If it were possible to save and do LeMans at 1 lap per day, you would still be able to do LeMans in one sitting. Adding the option to do LeMans over the course of the year does not reduce the realism. It's still there for those who want/can access it. What giving options does is let people who can't access the realism tone it down until they can access it.

You're setting a boundary - the minimum point of realism if you will, that the race must have. What's the point? Even if you could turn the LeMans race physics to Mario Kart, and there were bananas on the road, it wouldn't make the race anymore realistic for you. I thought that you would be of this mindset given that in another thread you said that exploits were fine offline.

When I did the 24 hrs three times in GT4, I'd like to know how I was affected by the other guy(s) I don't know who ran the race completely in B-Spec. I don't know who they are, probably never will, and before/during/after the endurance races, I didn't care.

You're acting as if people are asking that LeMan breaks be mandatory (and in all hoenstly, this is more realistic than what's offered now). They aren't, they just want options that let's them get to enjoy the game their way.

 

[Destinkeys]

No one has suggested that. If it were possible to save and do LeMans at 1 lap per day, you would still be able to do LeMans in one sitting. Adding the option to do LeMans over the course of the year does not reduce the realism. It's still there for those who want/can access it. What giving options does is let people who can't access the realism tone it down until they can access it.

You're setting a boundary - the minimum point of realism if you will, that the race must have. What's the point? Even if you could turn the LeMans race physics to Mario Kart, and there were bananas on the road, it wouldn't make the race anymore realistic for you. I thought that you would be of this mindset given that in another thread you said that exploits were fine offline.

When I did the 24 hrs three times in GT4, I'd like to know how I was affected by the other guy(s) I don't know who ran the race completely in B-Spec. I don't know who they are, probably never will, and before/during/after the endurance races, I didn't care.

You're acting as if people are asking that LeMan breaks be mandatory (and in all hoenstly, this is more realistic than what's offered now). They aren't, they just want options that let's them get to enjoy the game their way.

Have I said this affects me in any way? It is just that, if you want to do one lap of Sarthe, you can ALREADY do it. Why do you want two ways to do exactly the same thing? Look, I am not saying that any change to the way we play the game is bad... just that some things are logical, and some things aren't. Personally, I would LOVE multi-class racing. But if it were already IN the game, I wouldn't see much point in exploiting some other portion of the game to do it.

I read post after post where people set the minimum accepted reality when it comes to handling. Just unclear about why this doesn't apply to race simulation as well. I am not sure why I am getting flak from you for suggesting this alternative, when the game itself (the horror!) actually already mandates a FAR more severe restriction on how anybody wants to play the game.

What it boils down to is, maybe I'm just old, maybe I don't 'get' the kids, but I was always under the impression that playing a 'game', running a 'race' actually involved abiding by the rules of the game, and rules of the race. It's weird, because the same kids and young adults wanting to play video games any way they deem fit also seem to understand that, when they go outside and play tennis, or join a marathon, or go bicycle racing, play in a chess club, play flag football or any 'organized' sport at all, the rules are inviolate. But put a gamepad in their hands, and all that goes out the window.

I think the game acknowledges that people want to play things THEIR way. It's called Arcade Mode. Run one lap of Sarthe. Run two of Nordschliefe, whatever you feel like. You even get a choice of AI strength (as if Pro wasn't easy enough already!), you get to use your Favorites, you do pretty much what you want.

Why is that not enough?

 

[Exorcet]

Have I said this affects me in any way? It is just that, if you want to do one lap of Sarthe, you can ALREADY do it

I'm not asking for another way to do 1 lap of Sarthe, I'm asking for an endurance save feature that is not needlessly restrictive. Wouldn't it be harder to code a save feature that does what you suggested in place of one that is simply a save feature? Combine that with you not caring how others play offline, and I don't see the point for the 8 hour shelf life on the save.

Were your method implemented, someone who "honestly" meant to abide by it may lose out. Suppose they paused because they needed to get something, and it turns out they have bad luck and get utterly locked in traffic on the way back. Or the car just doesn't start in the first place. Unlikely yes, but why even risk it? Especially if you don't care if someone "abuses" the save feature to make the 24 hour race just another race.

On the other hand, an open save system makes the traffic jam situation impossible, and since you don't care how others play, people "abusing" it shouldn't bother. So I don't see the point of the limits for the save function.

I read post after post where people set the minimum accepted reality when it comes to handling. Just unclear about why this doesn't apply to race simulation as well. I am not sure why I am getting flak from you for suggesting this alternative, when the game itself (the horror!) actually already mandates a FAR more severe restriction on how anybody wants to play the game.

I can only speak for myself, but what I ask for is an increase in the maximum level of realism offered. I believe that this is what most other people ask for as well. Take the numerous threads on drafting as an example. People want the draft changed because currently, what is seen as a realistic draft setting is not available. They don't ask for a draft slider because none of them see the need, myself included. However I would not be upset with someone who wanted a draft power slider, so long as I got my realistic draft.

What it boils down to is, maybe I'm just old, maybe I don't 'get' the kids, but I was always under the impression that playing a 'game', running a 'race' actually involved abiding by the rules of the game, and rules of the race. It's weird, because the same kids and young adults wanting to play video games any way they deem fit also seem to understand that, when they go outside and play tennis, or join a marathon, or go bicycle racing, play in a chess club, play flag football or any 'organized' sport at all, the rules are inviolate. But put a gamepad in their hands, and all that goes out the window.

Not so. People can make Horse out of Basketball. I've played soccer with a bat. The rules are up to the players, this is universal. And that's the way it should be.

I think the game acknowledges that people want to play things THEIR way. It's called Arcade Mode.

Arcade mode is nothing. It lacks cars, tuning, and online play for starters. Playing their way would be making unlocking and all of that optional, because to some people it's just not fun. I don't know who it was that convinced people that things like unlocks are required in a game, but whoever it was, I'd like to let him know that he was completely wrong.

As long as it doesn't take away from others, anything is legal. I just can't see it any other way.

 

[Bobtehblob]

My biggest problem with the 24 hour events is the time. I'm happy doing them at say 4 hours or less a day but I hate having to leave my PS3 on GT5 for that long. If someone else invites me to play another game I can't go join them until I finish the race .orse then that is the fact you have to do them multiple times to get to A-spec 40!

 

[Kwicko]

A save feature with the necessity to continue within a specified timeframe is what would stay true to the spirit of the event. IRL, drivers are required to rest for an hour between four hour stints (roughly... varies a tad from series to series) and most 24 races are done by teams of three or more. That means four hours on and up to twelve hours off (if three other drivers). For me, I'd say emulating a three man team is a good balance. Four hours racing the game, save, then you MUST start back into it within eight hours, and no sooner than one.

Most of us could fit that in in a weekend.

If you have a party of drivers all willing to do the race in realtime, enter that into a checkbox, but then you get NO ability to save once you start. Or Pause, for that matter! If gametime is interrupted (by going out to the XMB, for example) you get a DSQ. Driver swaps in the pits (or I guess you can do it anytime, really, but pits would be 'keepin' it real')!

This all seems doable without a mountain of code.

Seem about right?

Didn't it use to be that you could stop the race, save your progress, and come back later, but not do any other races, or buy cars, or do maintenance, until you'd either abandoned that race for good, or gone back and finished it? Seems I remember it being that way, and it seemed to work. It's not strictly a "You have XX.X hours to finish the race, or YOU LOSE!", but it IS a bit of a commitment, because you don't move forward until you finish or quit that race.

Of course, I could just be remembering it wrong; after all, it's been more than half a decade since GT4 came out!

 

[Destinkeys]

I can only speak for myself, but what I ask for is an increase in the maximum level of realism offered. I believe that this is what most other people ask for as well. Take the numerous threads on drafting as an example. People want the draft changed because currently, what is seen as a realistic draft setting is not available. They don't ask for a draft slider because none of them see the need, myself included. However I would not be upset with someone who wanted a draft power slider, so long as I got my realistic draft.

This is the exact point I tried to make... the maximum level of reality on a 24hr endurance race is to do it in 24 hours! I am actually suggesting dialing it down a quite a bit, as 24hr races IRL are done by a team of 2 or 3 or 4 drivers. But dialing out a draft button would not turn the race into something else entirely. Merely change SLIGHTLY the sim aspect of the race. How would you feel if they were asking for unlimited draft? Get behind someone, and they can NEVER lose you? Or über-draft, where they could gain 100mph+? Eventually, there has to be SOME limit doesn't there? Mod Nation physics?!

Not so. People can make Horse out of Basketball. I've played soccer with a bat. The rules are up to the players, this is universal. And that's the way it should be.

But play Horse, you aren't claiming you are playing Basketball. Play with a bat, you aren't playing 'Soccer'. Invite your friends out for a game of soccer. Bring a bat. Try to explain that you are just 'playing the game the way YOU want to'!

As long as it doesn't take away from others, anything is legal. I just can't see it any other way.

But it abrogates the right to call itself what it isn't. BTW, in Arcade mode, you can use your Favorites, yes? If you upgrade a car, does it go back to Stock for Arcade Mode?

 

[Exorcet]

Kwicko - Championships only, not races. You got everything else right.

This is the exact point I tried to make... the maximum level of reality on a 24hr endurance race is to do it in 24 hours! I am actually suggesting dialing it down a quite a bit, as 24hr races IRL are done by a team of 2 or 3 or 4 drivers. But dialing out a draft button would not turn the race into something else entirely. Merely change SLIGHTLY the sim aspect of the race. How would you feel if they were asking for unlimited draft? Get behind someone, and they can NEVER lose you? Or über-draft, where they could gain 100mph+? Eventually, there has to be SOME limit doesn't there? Mod Nation physics?!

They can have infinite draft, so long as I have a realistic draft option. I didn't say I wanted the maximum level of realism to be the only option, I just wanted to be offered the maximum level of realism because that is what the game is supposedly offering. The player chooses what to do out of these options. If the game offers other options besides max realism, why should I complain?

On enduros - If the maximum level of realism is to do a 24 hr race in 24 hrs, then the game has successfully achieved maximum realism. It's up to the player to use it or not. I don't see the problem.

But play Horse, you aren't claiming you are playing Basketball. Play with a bat, you aren't playing 'Soccer'. Invite your friends out for a game of soccer. Bring a bat. Try to explain that you are just 'playing the game the way YOU want to'!

Then I can simply call LeMan LeLaps if I play it with 370 saves. I don't see your point on this part of the debate. You seemed to be saying before that people only do things "the right way" outside of games. That would mean a soccer ball would only be used for soccer. I broke that would be rule. So being creative/different/stupid/whatever-you-want-to-call-it is not limited to games.

I played soccer with a bat once. Someone might go online and create a room for demolition derby. There's nothing wrong with either situation even if they use certain things in ways those things were not intended to be used.

But it abrogates the right to call itself what it isn't. BTW, in Arcade mode, you can use your Favorites, yes? If you upgrade a car, does it go back to Stock for Arcade Mode?

To get those favorites you need to play A-Spec, and you only get 100 of them anyway. If I cared about AI races, I'd be severely disappointed in PD's decision to force me to play through countless pathetic "races" (more accurately called 5 lap car events) before I could do a real race like LeMans or Ring24. It serves no purpose to make me wait and to tell me what I can and can't do. If there was no leveling system and I could jump into LeMans right after taking the game out of the plastic, it wouldn't stop you from starting with 20,000 cr and waiting however long to get to LeMans. Yet you seem to feel that there is some benefit to forcing the aspiring LeMans racer to drive Minis against Mini driven by chimps around Rome 3,000,000 times before they get to the part that's fun. It is that that I cannot understand.

As for making arcade mode what it's not (if that's what you were talking about, I'm not completely sure), "Arcade" is just a name. It doesn't define what is in there. Only what is in there, defines what is in there.

 

[Destinkeys]

Kwicko - Championships only, not races. You got everything else right.

So where was the thread asking for this to be nerfed? I mean, is anything sacred?

I'm still confused (and have never got an answer to this question any other time I asked it), but can anyone name ONE game where every single thing, every weapon, every upgrade, every level, every challenge, everything in the game was unlocked and open to be done any way you want from the day you bought the game?

I can't for the life of me think of one, perhaps you can help me out? If not, why is JUST GT5 expected to do this? Why are limits and rules tolerated in other games, but not here..? I honestly would have expected this kind of thing in Mod Nation, or Mario Kart, but why is GT5, supposedly a more adult sim, the game where no rules are supposed to apply if you don't FEEL like it?

 

[Exorcet]

can anyone name ONE game where every single thing, every weapon, every upgrade, every level, every challenge, everything in the game was unlocked and open to be done any way you want from the day you bought the game?

I'll try to answer your question, but first, why does it matter?

I can't for the life of me think of one, perhaps you can help me out? If not, why is JUST GT5 expected to do this? Why are limits and rules tolerated in other games, but not here..? I honestly would have expected this kind of thing in Mod Nation, or Mario Kart, but why is GT5, supposedly a more adult sim, the game where no rules are supposed to apply if you don't FEEL like it?

You're making an assumption. I hate unlocks. Period. There isn't a game where an option to get it all would not be welcome in my eyes. It's simply a better way to play - With absolute certainly in online modes, offline the only except off the top of my head would be games with a story, but even then, the story should be optional.

Game without unlocks and the ability to "break" rules (list below) - True sims - I mention this because you said that GT as a sim should not cater to having it the players' way. In reality, sims are the masters of this.

Falcon series

Lock On/Flaming Cliffs series

DCS series -> Probably the most hardcore piece of software in the universe. From the second it's installed, you have absolutely everything, inlcuding the option to be an invicible pilot of a rubber plane with infinite missiles. Doesn't stop people from setting the game so that it takes 15 minutes to warp up their engines for take off only to die because a bird was ingested into the engine by random chance 15 seconds after getting into the air.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSIGzDMJ-ik

Notice that the full hardcore start up is available, yet less than a minute into the video, he speaks of multiple "easy modes".

Flight Simulator

Games with "cheat" codes

 

[Kwicko]

What it boils down to is, maybe I'm just old, maybe I don't 'get' the kids, but I was always under the impression that playing a 'game', running a 'race' actually involved abiding by the rules of the game, and rules of the race.

Okay, if your criteria are "abiding by the... rules of the race", then you should automatically disqualify GT5 for breaking those rules. The Automobile Club de l'Ouest, the sanctioning body behind The 24 Hours of LeMans, would never let one person drive a 24-hour endurance race in a single sitting.

Also, the game will allow you to enter cars that would not be allowed in the actual race - cars like the R92CP with full mods and 1078hp, for instance.

There have been so many liberties taken with the "rules of the race" already in these endurance races that worrying about how long someone takes to complete it seems rather pointless. If PD aren't going to insist that I have a team of at least three drivers to run LeMans, I'm not going to insist that I have to do it in a 24-hour period, or ANY fixed amount of time.