Honda & McLaren 2014 Formula 1

[prisonermonkeys]

McLaren are reportedly going to experiment a lot in this week's Barcelona test. Can't help but notice that most of their reliability issues of late aren't related to the engine - like Alonso's brakes (which reportedly failed when he picked up a visor tear-off). According to James Allen, they have slashed their straight-line deficit to Williams; they were 20km/h off in Melbourne, but now they have trimmed that down to 7km/h in Spain.

 

[Bo]

I wonder where McLaren got those sidepod chevron designs from...

Oh. Removing the white and silver, it's a pretty good match. Keeping them, it's like a horrible hybrid of their current and former 2015 liveries.

 

[mustafur]

I wonder where McLaren got those sidepod chevron designs from...

Oh. Removing the white and silver, it's a pretty good match. Keeping them, it's like a horrible hybrid of their current and former 2015 liveries.

From this probably:

Was that driver above a Mclaren junior by any chance?

 

[Bo]

Surprisingly not, Blah were a very small independent team who ran average drivers.

 

[mustafur]

Surprisingly not, Blah were a very small independent team who ran average drivers.

Probably explains the 3rd chevron then lol.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Nicolas Todt is open to seeing ART Grand Prix join the Formula 1 grid, but only if it makes sense for them to do so:

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/art-would-consider-f1-if-it-makes-sense-says-todt

The idea of "co-constructor" cars, with teams purchasing non-performance parts from other teams, seems to have some appeal here.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Weren't ART one of the teams eyeing a spot on the grid way back in 2009 too? Back then there were also talks of cost saving measures, plans which eventually fell through.

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

Mclaren Honda are just using 2015 as a test bench, the fact of the matter is the engine is de-tuned and is still keeping up with Lotus using Mercedes power. I'm hoping for some good results at the end of the season and hopefully for Fred to cap of his career with another title or two.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Weren't ART one of the teams eyeing a spot on the grid way back in 2009 too? Back then there were also talks of cost saving measures, plans which eventually fell through.

I believe they were, but unlike 2009, the teams are not trying to hold the sport hostage to protect their advantage - this time, they recognise that there is a need for cutting costs.

 

[DRJULESSTEELE]

I believe they were, but unlike 2009, the teams are not trying to hold the sport hostage to protect their advantage - this time, they recognise that there is a need for cutting costs.

It's mainly the small teams that are in dire need. I honestly think customer factory cars would be good sort of like WEC although the top teams can opt out on aero, chassis, and what not. If Bernie stopped taking bribes none of this would be happening look at the Indian/Korean gp two major flops. Azerbaijan is going to be a disaster and total flop just like turkey and most modern venues. Heritage will always prevail with better economics in the long run, Bernie just wants a quick dollar. I have a hard time believing a race at Bahrain is going to generate more money/viewership than a race at Silver-stone. Bernie as a hold collects more money underhand than the F1 organization as a whole. No way I'm buying that b**ls***t.

 

[FutureF1]

So I was just having a look around, so far this season, Fernando Alonso has had similar finishing results as his first season with Minardi. I know the McHonda has a long way to go, but it's shocking that the last time FA started a season this badly was his rookie season.

2001:
Rd 1: 12
Rd 2: 13
Rd 3: Ret.
Rd 4: Ret.

2015:
Rd 1: DNS
Rd 2: 12
Rd 3: 11
Rd 4: Ret.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Honda have spent two of their development tokens, and will bring the upgraded RA615H engine to Montreal:

http://adamcooperf1.com/2015/06/01/ferrari-and-honda-use-first-engine-upgrade-tokens/

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Honda have spent two of their development tokens, and will bring the upgraded RA615H engine to Montreal:

http://adamcooperf1.com/2015/06/01/ferrari-and-honda-use-first-engine-upgrade-tokens/

Supposedly the tokens were spent in relation to reliability. They only have 7 left now.

 

[DQuaN]

I thought reliability and economy upgrades did not cost any tokens?

 

[psychoazubi]

It seems like they are not using a new engine because they spend the token on the turbo. 2 tokens can be used for a) a new turbine or b) a new supercharger. My guess is a new turbine because a McLaren engineer said they will see the result in Spielberg, which is 660m above sea level. All according to auto-motor-und-sport.de.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

Esso have joined Johnnie Walker in putting their name on the car again:

Even if they found someone for the sidepods, I still feel like something would be missing.

 

[mustafur]

You would think Honda would put a brand slogo on the car, it seems under represented.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

You would think Honda would put a brand slogo on the car, it seems under represented.

But it's consistent with the branding that the Mercedes-, Ferrari- and Renault-powered cars have (outside the works teams).

 

[mustafur]

But it's consistent with the branding that the Mercedes-, Ferrari- and Renault-powered cars have (outside the works teams).

Yeah but Honda have done it before.

The others don't exactly have a history of using slogans.

 

[prisonermonkeys]

I don't see any slogan - just "HONDA".

 

[MustangManiac]

Well, I don't think anyone expected them to be fast right out of the box, but this is getting pretty bad. This far in and they are still having trouble even finishing a race. Or for that matter, even finishing a qualifying or FP session with both cars. Lets just hope it doesn't get ugly like the Red Bull/Renault situation that seems to have been put on the back burner for the time being.

 

[IforceV8]

Considering they cant even figure out how much fuel is needed to run the race these results seem about right.

 

[TenEightyOne]

Considering they cant even figure out how much fuel is needed to run the race these results seem about right.

They can, it's 100l for most cars. The fuel usage isn't fixed, each of the top ten drivers at Montreal used between 99 and 100 litres. The question is how much speed you can get over the 200 miles from that fuel... and the Honda sucks, literally. That's supposedly because the K and H are performing quite badly compared to competitor's engines by dint of which more fossil fuel is required to cover the same distance. It's a shame because on the balance of timings the chassis must actually be pretty good. rather like Ferrari last year whose chassis was the saving grace, such as it was.

As an aside; what would happen if McLaren said "Sod it... we're starting most races at the back with an uncompetitive engine, let's blow all the tokens and more and just sort it. Then we start at the back with a competitive engine".

Would they be DSQed or just at the back for every race?

 

[snowgt]

They can, it's 100l for most cars. The fuel usage isn't fixed, each of the top ten drivers at Montreal used between 99 and 100 litres. The question is how much speed you can get over the 200 miles from that fuel... and the Honda sucks, literally. That's supposedly because the K and H are performing quite badly compared to competitor's engines by dint of which more fossil fuel is required to cover the same distance. It's a shame because on the balance of timings the chassis must actually be pretty good. rather like Ferrari last year whose chassis was the saving grace, such as it was.

As an aside; what would happen if McLaren said "Sod it... we're starting most races at the back with an uncompetitive engine, let's blow all the tokens and more and just sort it. Then we start at the back with a competitive engine".

Would they be DSQed or just at the back for every race?

If they used more than the allowed tokens they would be disqualified for running an unhomologated engine.

Edit: Regarding fuel usage I must say it's pretty disappointing they are having that much of a problem with it, although they are reported to be running the engine at less than full power because of cooling problems. Ferrari had similar problems, because its MGU's were not efficient enough last year, which in turn led to higher fuel consumption, but Honda seems to be nowhere near last year's Ferrari performance. And that, although they sort of knew what the targets for power and fuel consumption were.

 

[Liquid]

McLaren-Honda is the most disappointing reunion since The Sex Pistols' 1996 tour.

 

[TenEightyOne]

McLaren-Honda is the most disappointing reunion since The Sex Pistols' 1996 tour.

The most disappointing collaboration since FFS, more like

 

[IforceV8]

They can, it's 100l for most cars. The fuel usage isn't fixed, each of the top ten drivers at Montreal used between 99 and 100 litres. The question is how much speed you can get over the 200 miles from that fuel... and the Honda sucks, literally. That's supposedly because the K and H are performing quite badly compared to competitor's engines by dint of which more fossil fuel is required to cover the same distance. It's a shame because on the balance of timings the chassis must actually be pretty good. rather like Ferrari last year whose chassis was the saving grace, such as it was.

As an aside; what would happen if McLaren said "Sod it... we're starting most races at the back with an uncompetitive engine, let's blow all the tokens and more and just sort it. Then we start at the back with a competitive engine".

Would they be DSQed or just at the back for every race?

Any idea what there per lap fuel burn rate was? I read the comments from McLaren saying that Alonso parked the car with high exhaust temps. It would seem the engineers leaned the engine out too much.

Of course in most normal forms of racing when the car is low on fuel you stop and add more but F1....👎

 

[MustangManiac]

If they used more than the allowed tokens they would be disqualified for running an unhomologated engine.

Couldn't they then homologate it in February for 2016? I mean, it's not like they are going to get much in the way of constructors money based on points, if any at all the way it's going now. Why not just throw away this year, go all out and change everything they want and be set for next year?

 

[Peasantslayer]

I wonder where Mclaren would be if they'd stuck at it with Mercedes, I'd expect them to be at least on par with Williams by now.

 

[catamount39]

I wonder where Mclaren would be if they'd stuck at it with Mercedes, I'd expect them to be at least on par with Williams by now.

They'd be much...MUCH better than they are now. Hard to tell how the car is chassis and aero wise though...when it has the worst engine ever in the back...