How can we fix F1?

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Blake

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haswell00
Ok, nearly everyone agrees that there is something wrong with F1 as it is. Be it qualifying, aerodynamic regulations, engine regulations, the points sytem, tyre regulations, the spending war, or whatever else.

So the point of this thread is to voice your opinion, what is wrong with F1, and how can it be fixed?

Let’s see what sort of ideas we can get going here – heck, if we really get things cracking we can start a new open wheeler series: Formula GTP :p

Blake
 
my post from the other thread
ok i've got two great ideas to solve both the multi car team thing and the points system.

first off lets let the teams run as many cars as they want to. 3 cars per team or mayber even 4. the kicker is only the top two cars from each team get contructor points. the drivers still get driver points, thus making the points race more interesting.

now most people dont like the way points are won. only two points between 1st and 2nd. well, how about this...

1st place gets 14 points.
2nd gets 10.
3rd gets 7.
4th gets 6.
5th gets 5.
6th gets 4.
7th gets 3.
8th gets 2.
9th gets 1
10th gets a half point.

by doing this the driver gets more points for winning and its easier to make and lose leads. the distance between 2nd and 3rd is also one more point for the same reason. by adding 9th and 10th palces to the points it makes the mid field more competitve AND givin the amount of changes the mid field has from race to race livens up the points race. the half point for 10th is for breaking ties. when it comes down to it the little bit could make a difference. with 22 cars on the field next year i think it makes great sense.

if we can get 20 races a season this alone would make it great.

another thing that might be nice is to have v8's v10's and v12's in the same field again. the v12 would be a small displacment unit of about 2.5l the v10 would be about 3.2l and the v8 could be 4.5. by making a wider range of engines each time could focus on different races they want to do good in and pick an engine type that would be suit though races. say if a team thought it could do well at 11 or the races but not so good at the other 8 they could pick the the engine that would do best for those races. i understand this creates a big problem with cost though so some rules would have to be made about that.

going back to the full slick tires will be great so we dont need to go over that. what we do need to change is not being able to change the tires. i think being alowed to change only one time wold be good. not only is changing them part of racing they could use a softer compound thus making the racing better and making things more safe because of less flatspots and such. they would also be able to use more sets of tires per race weekend.

the engine rule i fully hate. being able to change the engines at will is a great thing. that would make the racing better. not only would they have more power but kimi wouldnt be starting 11th every race anymore.
 
if we had races like this every weekend we wouldnt. to bad this race was a fluke. we cant make it rain half way during qualifying every time.
 
I'm a big fan of fan, even now (though I wasn't a fan of Schumacher's reign, except when Raikkonen came close to beating him in 2003). Anyway, I'm still a big fan because IMO it's more exciting than any other form of motorsport. I've been watching F1 since mid-1995 or so. I remember MS being on Benetton. Anyway, that's a big IMHO. I've heard many how Champ Car is so special, or etc. I've watched FIA GT races, I've watched Le Mans 24Hr, I've watched ALMS, I've watched F3000 Euro as well. The only ones that were interesting were GP2, I watched Spa and Monza race and there was good action from Scott SPEED, was impressed to see some of his skills, and I believe, Nelson Piquet Jr? That and WRC Rally. WRC is the only one that excites me even a fraction of F1.

Anywaaaaay, I agree that F1 needs more action. I saw a F1 Decade on Speed recently, I saw the 1995 Canadian GP and the 1995 European GP (at Jerez I believe 👍 ). Anyway, it was REALLY good. I think DC was on Williams back then, and Johnny Herbert was on Benetton. The action between MS and Hill was simply breathtaking. Now maybe I was witnessing one of the "better" races, but seeing MS fight for 1st in the dying laps and using pit strategy to overtake Jean Alesi in the Ferrari (in a V12 Ferrari mind you :scared: ), it was simply awesome. Hill was trying to overtake like insane, pushing his car, and finally wiping out by pushing too hard trying to get by MS in the Benetton, just like I said, AWESOME.

Now, that race from yesterday, that was AWESOME. I really wish we'd get more races like that. What makes a good race IMO is when you get a lotta good action and passing + potential overturns between the drivers. This race, I was rooting like mad for Raikkonen, go Kimi pass MS, go pass Webber, Alonso passes MS twice ooh, JV holds off Alonso, uh oh Sato is in front of Kimi in last lap. That kinda stuff. Last race that made me feel like this was, well not this year I think, probably like the last race between Mika Hakkinen and Eddie Irvine in 1999, or some other battle between Mika and MS in 98/99/00, or maybe that last race of 1997 with Villneuve vs MS. There was another good race this year, I don't remember which, maybe the Canadian GP with Kimi being chased by MS, or Turkey GP with Raikkonen between the two Renault's, but again nothing like the last race.

What I think needs to be done.. well I don't really know. We need more attraction to the lower positions, we need the tyre changes to come back, and again I don't really know. It seemed that from that race back in 1995, or at least the ones in 97-00, there was a switch between dominating drivers every time during the season. This year, we've finally had basically a formation of a cult if you don't mind me saying, some cheering for Alonso, some cheering for Kimi. Problem is, Kimi kinda lost his chance quite a while back, so we kinda gave up hoping for him (well I didn't, but the realistic thing was he wasn't gonna win). Though admittetly, the guy is very fast and he didn't give up on being super fast around the track practically, the thing about rooting for someone and switching back and forth kinda ended, and that's what was sweet to watch back in 95 and 99 with Hill and Hakkinen and such, but that's just my opinion. I'm not really sure what they need to do to improve F1.

Here's a small idea to start on. Get those good drivers, Alex Wurz, Davidson, Zonta, de la Rosa, Scott Speed, get them a decent car and let's see some of that action.. hopefully?? :dopey:
 
I think they should bring back the qualifying where one lap is with light fuel load, and one was with race fuel. Then we could really see how fast the cars are without having to completely do away with the current qualifying/fuel rules.
 
Ok, well I s’pose I’ll give my ideas now.
  • Tyres
    • Bring back slick tyres – Slick tyres generally make the cars more stable under braking and give drivers confidence to overtake in big braking areas with less fear of flat-spotting tyres.
    • Bring back tyre changes – Bringing back tyre changes will allow drivers to have no fear of ruining their entire race by getting a flat-spot early on.
    • Allow teams to change tyre compounds during the race (and during the entire weekend) – Putting super-soft tyre compounds on for a short sprint in the race adds excitement—imagine a car lapping 3–4 seconds faster than the rest of the field for a 10 lap stint. Different compounds also give drivers very different grip levels in various stages of the race.
  • Fuel
    • Do not allow refueling during a race – Not knowing if the person in-front is actually going to make a pit-stop adds extra incentive to try to make the pass instead of waiting for the guy in-front to make his pit-stop.
  • Engines
    • Allow the engine to be replaced at any time – This gets cars doing more laps in the practice sessions and allows teams that can afford it to make qualifying engines.
    • 2.4 litre engines of any configuration (no turbos) – Gives teams more freedom in developing the type of engine they want. For a few years there will be big differences in engine power as the teams find the optimum configurations. The displacement lowers power output.
  • Aerodynamics
    • Get rid of all wings and winglets – Getting rid of all aerodynamic devices on the surface of the car decreases the need for ‘clean air’, in-turn increasing passing.
    • Allow the use of full ground effects – This gives the cars massive grip through corners etc. There is no need for ‘clean air’ to generate the downforce, therefor cars can follow eachother trough corners more easily. With such massive downforce there is less need for the ‘clean line’ and passing can be done with more confidence that the car will pull and and be able to turn in-time.
  • Qualifying
    • Bring back the old 12 lap, 1 hour session – Real qualifying, makes drivers search for that perfect lap.
    • Top 10 Shootout – The top 10 drivers from the 1 hour session each get 1 hot-lap on a light fuel load. This puts the drivers under pressure and mixes up the front of the field a little.
  • Points System
    • Bring back the old 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 system – This system puts more importance on winning a GP and makes it harder for the midfield to score points.
    • Bonus points – There should be a bonus point for pole and a bonus point for fastest lap of the race. This makes drivers really push in the shootout and also makes drivers push harder during the race.
  • Driver Aids
    • Manual gearbox’s – Bring back manual gear changing. Brings back more driver skill. If you miss a gear it can hurt you down a straight, give people behind a good run into the next corner.
    • Ban Traction control – I know it’s so difficult to do, but it would introduce more driver skill again.

Blake
 
pSI civic
my post from the other thread

if we can get 20 races a season this alone would make it great.

another thing that might be nice is to have v8's v10's and v12's in the same field again. the v12 would be a small displacment unit of about 2.5l the v10 would be about 3.2l and the v8 could be 4.5. by making a wider range of engines each time could focus on different races they want to do good in and pick an engine type that would be suit though races. say if a team thought it could do well at 11 or the races but not so good at the other 8 they could pick the the engine that would do best for those races. i understand this creates a big problem with cost though so some rules would have to be made about that.

going back to the full slick tires will be great so we dont need to go over that. what we do need to change is not being able to change the tires. i think being alowed to change only one time wold be good. not only is changing them part of racing they could use a softer compound thus making the racing better and making things more safe because of less flatspots and such. they would also be able to use more sets of tires per race weekend.

the engine rule i fully hate. being able to change the engines at will is a great thing. that would make the racing better. not only would they have more power but kimi wouldnt be starting 11th every race anymore.




I like this idea, especially the points system you created. you should e-mail that to the FIA, seriously. there are some things I would like to add though.

--the teams should be able to change any settings on the car if the qualifying session turns out to be a downpour and the race is bone dry.

--the teams should be able to change tires whenever they want w/o penalty or certain stipulations.

--the teams should be able to change engines whenever they want as well. also a no brainer.

--bring back slicks with a little bit softer compund. this is a no brainer, to up mechanical grip.

--BRING BACK GROUND EFFECTS and reduce the reliance of the wings on top of the car so the cars won't risk anything by tucking under the gearbox of the car in front. as we've seen, it's worked in GP2, so put it into action on the F1 cars. this also might put an end to the aero dependent cars of late(i.e Toyota's 2005 F1 car).

--take away traction control unless the race or qualifying session happens to be a downpour like what we saw at qualifying in the Japan GP '05.

--no engine restrictions. let the teams run whatever engine setup they want. wether it be I4's, V6's/V8's/V10's/V12's or any other configuration they can come up with and let them turbocharge it if they want to with boost controls in the car like during the turbo era. the only restriction. put a horsepower and torque cap on it at say 1300bhp and 950lb/ft of torque.

--pSI civic's points idea.

--cap off a limit on downforce so the cars won't get too dangerous. as it is, the cars are already pushing the limits of the human body, any more could be deadly.

--a money cap could work to save money, but nothing too extreme like what Bernie is doing. cause I agree that F1 costs are getting a bit ridiculous. I heard Ferrari is spending something like $400mil a year, come on guys.

--ONBOARD STARTERS!!!!!!! I'm sorry, I have hated the idea of the guy spinning off and his day be done. that is horrible in terms of entertainment purposes. if teams cry about the extra weight, take off the extra ballast that is on their or raise the minimum weight to whatever the car will weigh with the onboard starter.

--no testing limit. period, I think testing is good and limiting testing is stupid, just stupid. it's like limiting evolution.

--return to manual gearboxes. fully manual sequential gearboxes like in Senna's Monaco qualifying video. bring back a little more of driver talent into the race.

--make the cars wider and lower like they were in the 80's/90's. nowdays they look like they are going to tip over cause they look so tall and narrow as compared to the older, more traditional F1 cars.

--each constructor makes their own ECU and is in charge of their ECU like in the past and present.

--keep the number of drivers representing a constructor in a race the same. no limit on the number of constructors per event. this would keep the number of cars from getting to out of hand. we don't want 50 cars on the track at the same time, that would be crazy.

--allow electronically controlled diffs. I'm going over Bernie's proposed rules for 2008 and this is something that I want to stop right now.

--brake bias must be set by a physical input by the driver while in motion. no pre-set settings like today(i.e. they turn a knob to position 1,2,3,4,5,etc). it is like this with karts that I race. you turn the knob by the steering column to the right and more brake bias is set on the rear. likewise, you turn to the left, and more attention is paid to the front. the knob must go 2 full turns either way from dead center(4 turns lock to lock) and accomidate a setting of 100/0 or 0/100 front/rear.

--no ABS. I know there isn't ABS now, this is just to keep it from happening.

--blue lights operated by the race stewards that are clearly visible by the driver on the dash of the cars. the lights will become active on the dash of lapped traffic so they can't make excuses like "I didn't see the blue flag" or some BS and hold up faster cars behind them. if it goes like this for more then a lap, they will be black flagged. they tried something like this in the late 90's and it worked well, just the constructors had to pay for it and they didn't want to pay for anything thye didn't have to. so make this manditory so lap traffic won't have any excuse.

--get rid of Max Mosley and Bernie Ecclestone, hehe, just kidding. but seriously, someone needs to replace these guys.





those are my ideas for making F1 better. while making this, I read Bernie's 2008 tech regulation proposal and picked out what sounded good. most of it was rubbish though. thats all I can come up with right now. oh and keep all the saftey stuff the same cause it's working well right now. not a death so far with the new saftey regs, and hopefully there won't be one. but it won't be limited to these regs. if there is an opportunity to make things safer, it will be taken as long as it is proven the upgrades will infact be safer. that's all for now.









rock. :cool:
 
Pay the drivers £50,000 a year, with a £250,000 bonus for every pass for position they make (on someone not on their team) and a £500,000 bonus per point.
 
Famine
Pay the drivers £50,000 a year, with a £250,000 bonus for every pass for position they make (on someone not on their team) and a £500,000 bonus per point.
:lol: I love it!

Blake
 
I don't think you can 'fix' it but you can modify it for sure :)

Teams:

Well obviously it would be nice to have 22, 24 or 26 car grids again, but i will not think F1 will be having many new teams after the 'mystery' team joins, yes there will probably be B teams which i don't mind what so ever, as long as there is no team orders what so ever.

Tyres:

Slicks should come back yes, but the no tyre change rule i think should stay, its makes driver skill needed more and drivers do have to looks after their tyres, teams also have to be wise in the fact that they help choose the tyres for the drivers. So yes get slicks back, but keep the no tyre change rule.

Aero:

Now the idea of reducing downforce was good, once again focused more on driver skill then designer skill, but something needs to be sorted out with the problem of cars following each other, or failing to do so as I should put it, perhaps new rear wing regulations to inforce closer driving, yes Suzuka was full of overtaking, but that was due to drivers being not where they should be.

Qualifying:

Blakes idea for qualifying of the old 12 laps in 1 hour then the top ten have a one lap shootout is a great idea and personally i think should be put into F1, but maybe also the back 10 should have 1 last shot to get themselves upto the top ten, thus putting pressure on 8th, 9th and 10th to make their times substancially faster then 11th 12th and 13th.

Commentry:

Get James Allen out of there....
 
well something is wrong with it and its pissing me off, there are barely any overtakes in the race itself, i would like to see those come back :D
also like blake said more driver control not just computers doing all the work. and a wide variety of engines too also turbos :D well i guess i\'m just going for the crazy things, but hell they are the best
 
katana87
There are barely any overtakes in the race itself


Well yes some of it has been during pit stops, but there has been some races where there has been overtaking on the track like the Belgian GP and Japan yesterday.
 
Blake
Ok, well I s’pose I’ll give my ideas now.
  • Tyres
    • Bring back slick tyres – Slick tyres generally make the cars more stable under braking and give drivers confidence to overtake in big braking areas with less fear of flat-spotting tyres.
    • Bring back tyre changes – Bringing back tyre changes will allow drivers to have no fear of ruining their entire race by getting a flat-spot early on.
    • Allow teams to change tyre compounds during the race (and during the entire weekend) – Putting super-soft tyre compounds on for a short sprint in the race adds excitement—imagine a car lapping 3–4 seconds faster than the rest of the field for a 10 lap stint. Different compounds also give drivers very different grip levels in various stages of the race.


  • I agree, mostly. The tire compound thing I don't fully agree with though. I could support that as long as it wasn't a forced change, like in Champ car. If the teams want to go for it fine but it shouldn't be mandated.

    Blake

    [*]Fuel
    • Do not allow refueling during a race – Not knowing if the person in-front is actually going to make a pit-stop adds extra incentive to try to make the pass instead of waiting for the guy in-front to make his pit-stop.



    I disagree here. Fuel strategy and the like are part of F1. Not filling it all the way up at the start and wishing for the best.

    Blake

    [*]Engines
    • Allow the engine to be replaced at any time – This gets cars doing more laps in the practice sessions and allows teams that can afford it to make qualifying engines.
    • 2.4 litre engines of any configuration (no turbos) – Gives teams more freedom in developing the type of engine they want. For a few years there will be big differences in engine power as the teams find the optimum configurations. The displacement lowers power output.



    Agree 100%

    Blake

    [*]Aerodynamics
    • Get rid of all wings and winglets – Getting rid of all aerodynamic devices on the surface of the car decreases the need for ‘clean air’, in-turn increasing passing.
    • Allow the use of full ground effects – This gives the cars massive grip through corners etc. There is no need for ‘clean air’ to generate the downforce, therefor cars can follow eachother trough corners more easily. With such massive downforce there is less need for the ‘clean line’ and passing can be done with more confidence that the car will pull and and be able to turn in-time.



    Umm...I'm split here. I like the winglets and all the stuff on the cars. I like the thinking and engineering behind them. Ground Effect though...hmmm. I see your point but can't get myself to agree with the use of full GE...hmm.

    Blake

    [*]Qualifying
    • Bring back the old 12 lap, 1 hour session – Real qualifying, makes drivers search for that perfect lap.
    • Top 10 Shootout – The top 10 drivers from the 1 hour session each get 1 hot-lap on a light fuel load. This puts the drivers under pressure and mixes up the front of the field a little.


    I fully agree about the 1 hour session. Not sure the hot-lap session is needed. Just keep it simple. 1 hour, 12 laps....teams can even use Qualifying cars. Let's see what the driver's can do in a car that is pushing it to the n'th degree!

    Blake

    [*]Points System
    • Bring back the old 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1 system – This system puts more importance on winning a GP and makes it harder for the midfield to score points.
    • Bonus points – There should be a bonus point for pole and a bonus point for fastest lap of the race. This makes drivers really push in the shootout and also makes drivers push harder during the race.


    I prefer the current points structure though could see bonus points for pole and fastest lap. 1 maybe 2 points...nothing complicated.

    Blake

    [*]Driver Aids
    • Manual gearbox’s – Bring back manual gear changing. Brings back more driver skill. If you miss a gear it can hurt you down a straight, give people behind a good run into the next corner.
    • Ban Traction control – I know it’s so difficult to do, but it would introduce more driver skill again.
Blake


I think F1 has reached a good place right now with the gearboxes and driver aids. It works and still allows for driver skill to shine.
 
Simple.

Rule 1:
The car must fit into its designated grid space.

Rule 2:
The car mustn't leave the track (become airborne for a sustained period) as an intended design feature of the car (temporary jumps are fine).

Rule 3:
The driver must remain concious during the entirety of the race.

Rule 4:
Every car must be controlled in a traditional car-like fashion (no computers or driver aids in any way, shape or form).


Other than that, each manufacturer/team can create anything they want. I'd love to see what they came up with!!
 
Hmm..

Tyres -
Bring Slicks Back!!
Im undecided on a 1 supplier idea..

Qualifying -
Bring the 1 hour session rule but no lap restrictions.
Light Fuel Load

Aero, Gearboxs etc -
The cars must not leave dirty air, even if this slows the cars down it get more overtaking.
Keep the seqential gearboxes, i know it takes away from driver skill but id rather they concentrated on overtaking that gear shifting.
Ban TCS.
Allows things like turbos and 6 wheels.. itll bring some variety.

Each Grand Prix is its OWN GP.. Dont carry penalties from race to race like currently.. Think of how much more exciting this season would of been If Kimi was futher up with Alonso.

-- Runs out of ideas :indiff:
 
ITV.com/f1
The FIA is pushing to have its proposed knock-out qualifying system voted through by Formula 1's team principals in time to be included for 2006.

The plan is to split the hour into three sections, with the slowest five cars being eliminated in both of the first two 15-minute blocks until just 10 are left for the final 20-minute showdown.

Tyres and refuelling restrictions are likely to be lifted although the cars that take part in the final qualifying sector would have to run with racefuel on board.

The sport's governing body also wants to re-introduce tyre changes during the race.

Among a raft of radical proposals, the FIA plans to give the teams seven sets of dry tyres per weekend and the freedom to chose when they want to use them.

It has also put forward a plan to revise the weekend timetable, restrict the number of mechanics that can tend a car in the pitlane and outlaw spare and third cars.

Although the team bosses are thought likely to agree to the new quali format they are reported to be less keen on losing third cars.

"No third car, I don't care, because I don't think anyone uses the T-car this year," Renault boss Flavio Briatore told Autosport's website. "But we need a show car.

"That means, when you have the paddock walk around there is no car. We need one car.

"If it is the show car, I don't care, but it is important they give me one car because it is not good for the sponsors to see the garage empty."


Outlaw third cars, wow there goes many careers...
 
BRING BACK THE OLD POINT SYSTEM

if it wasnt for the stupid new point system, kimi would still be competing with alonso. Or he might even have won it. :sick:

i'm too lazy to actually do the math
 
to quote kylehnat



kylehnat
Wrong.

Old points system:
Alonso-101
Kimi-83

I really wish people would stop using this argument BECAUSE IT'S WRONG!



thats what the points looked like up to the Brazillian GP.








rock. :cool:
 
Because I am capable of adding numbers together.

(Taken from F1-Live.com)

Alonso, New Points (in order of race): 6+10+10+10+8+5+10+0+0+10+8+10+0+8+8+8+6+6 = 123

Raikkonen, New Points: 1+0+6+0+10+10+0+10+0+8+6+0+10+10+5+10+8+10 = 104

Alonso, Old Points: 4+10+10+10+6+3+10+0+0+10+6+10+0+6+6+6+4+4 = 105

Raikkonen, Old Points: 0+0+4+0+10+10+0+10+0+6+4+0+10+10+3+10+6+10 = 93

Edit: Because I don't want to do my homework, I decided to whip up some stuff in Excel to illustrate my point.

http://students.washington.edu/kylehnat/pointsdebate.xls
 
not allowing refueling is an insane idea. even more so then no tire changes. currently f1 cars can hold enough fuel for half a race and we can see how much this amount of weight hurts the performance. doubling it would hurt every aspect of performance. no sense is taking two steps forward and 5 steps back.

by getting rid of all wings you arent talking about the front and rear wings right? because thats just nuts. what i would do is lower the rear wing to just above the height of the rear wheels and mount it right behind them and increase its size a lot. lower the front wing. all other wings can be done away with though.

ground effects was done away with for a reason. it creates an unstable car on roads that are not flat. if there is a bump in a corner it could easily send the car off the road or into the wall if not just give a moment of loss of controll.

the top ten shoot out idea just adds more confusion to the mix and i see no reason for it.

i agree with the bonus points for poll and fast lap. i wont ever like the idea of two less points positions though. i dont see why we cant just have 1st place get 12 points.

traction control isnt used very much as it is and totaly banning it is to hard for what you get. the only time its used a lot is in the rain.

bringing back manual gear boxs i'm not a fan of both because of reliability issues and with that would come a clutch pedal which would increase the size of the front. if there is an electronic clutch with a manual shift i am less against the idea although i like a technology.

its great someone likes an idea i have for a change! i liked that idea for the points system a lot. i like our combined engine ideas to. i didnt bring up turbos though because the turbo era engines were unreliable and the last time i said they should allow turbos again no one liked it.

i love the idea about starters as well.

i think limiting testing it dangerous. by doing that there is a chance something could break due to less testing than was needed.

i think a team should be able to have 3 cars on grid with only the top two from that team getting constructor points but the drivers still getting driver points.

they really need to get rid of the no tire change rule. tire changing is part of racing and softer compounds make or better passing.

i want to see drivers get as many qualifying laps as they can get it. just like pracitce.

from a cost point of view i like the one tire maker rule and it evens that playing field out. no more good cars on bad tires and bad cars on good tires. it focuses more on having a good car then good tires.

something i think would be a great idea is to make a rule that forces the use of very strong materials for the suspension parts. as we have all seen a tiny bump can break a wheel of which sucks. i think by making the suspenson stronger these tiny bumps wont hurt the car as much thus keeping it in the race.
 
pSI civic
not allowing refueling is an insane idea. even more so then no tire changes. currently f1 cars can hold enough fuel for half a race and we can see how much this amount of weight hurts the performance. doubling it would hurt every aspect of performance. no sense is taking two steps forward and 5 steps back.
It eliminates the chance of pit fires, it makes teams make there engines more fuel efficient so that they can get to the end of a race with a small fuel tank as possible (this has important real-world applications), it forces drivers to better manage a big change in car balance as the race goes on. The only real negative is that drivers may be forced to play a fuel economy game – but as long as tank size is not limited I don’t see this happening.
pSI civic
by getting rid of all wings you arent talking about the front and rear wings right? because thats just nuts. what i would do is lower the rear wing to just above the height of the rear wheels and mount it right behind them and increase its size a lot. lower the front wing. all other wings can be done away with though.
Yes, it is a radical change, but it has the advantage of cars being sturdier (no wings to brake off if you just touch someone) and it means drivers have a little less to worry about when trying a pass. Also it makes cars almost oblivious to dirty air, you could stay right on someone’s gearbox through a corner.
pSI civic
ground effects was done away with for a reason. it creates an unstable car on roads that are not flat. if there is a bump in a corner it could easily send the car off the road or into the wall if not just give a moment of loss of controll.
Only two drivers died in the ground effects era. One was in a massive pile up on the first lap of a race, and the other was when Gilles Villenueve ran into the back of someone in qualifying and was sent into an insane roll. This was when cars were much more dangerous than they are now, there is such a small risk now that if anyone did crash they’d be unlucky to have a broken bone.

Without wings the cars wouldn’t be cornering that quickly. The only issue with it IMO is adjusting the car balance through aero on a ground effects car would be difficult, I think.

Blake
 
Hmm... full bodied F1s? Sound great. :)

But for a moment there, I thought we were talking about no wings... no downforce. :lol:

Instead of a no fuel stop, what if there was a fuel load limit? Is there one now? Like, after testing or qualifying, the FIA could measure fuel consumption by all teams and set the maximum fuel each team could have in the pits by the most efficient consumption in the entire group. That means more drivers will have to lean off the mix in the middle of the race (like Kimi did when he was following slower cars in Japan), which means a more varied pace, which means more overtaking and battles.

And on that note, bring back turbos! It's one thing I loved from my years of watching CART, seeing drivers adjust their boost on the fly for more passing power, the trimming back down to save gas.

Slicks, maybe, but the current tire rules make the races more strategic. Shame about the Bridgestones.

No electronic diffs, no ABS, and... hmmm... traction control? Would it even be possible to race current F1s without it? Because if it is, I'd like to see it go.
 
i just think no refueling would lead to more flat spots and less passing thus making the race not as good.

i dont support much less downforce or full ge but a mix of both might be possible.
 
pSI civic
ground effects was done away with for a reason. it creates an unstable car on roads that are not flat. if there is a bump in a corner it could easily send the car off the road or into the wall if not just give a moment of loss of controll.

I don't know completely, but I thought ground effect were done away with because if the skirts were damaged, the car would be unstable. like I said, it's worked out in GP2 and they already are(or will in the future) running the same tracks as F1. so I think they may have fixed it.




pSI civic
i agree with the bonus points for poll and fast lap. i wont ever like the idea of two less points positions though. i dont see why we cant just have 1st place get 12 points.

same here. the old points system where the 1st place car gets 4 points over the next guy was done away with after Schumacher won the '02 title 10 races into the season according to kylehnat. so I think the FIA's move was a good one.




pSI civic
traction control isnt used very much as it is and totaly banning it is to hard for what you get. the only time its used a lot is in the rain.

TC is actually used quite a bit. I've watched the new graphic on Speed Channel that tells you when TC is being used and watching the good drivers, it isn't used that much. but watching the mid-packers, it seems to be used every corner cause they aren't as smooth with their steering inputs and throttle/brake application.




pSI civic
bringing back manual gear boxs i'm not a fan of both because of reliability issues and with that would come a clutch pedal which would increase the size of the front. if there is an electronic clutch with a manual shift i am less against the idea although i like a technology.

ehh, I didn't really take the whole increased width into mind. now I'm not so sure about the issue. actually, thinking about it, I belive keeping the gearbox the same wouldn't be so bad since things have changed so much in 10 years. on top of that, I would prefer the driver concentrate on driving rather then bothered with manual shifting. it would keep down a lot of stupid retirements. I'm sure the reliability issue would not be a problem nowdays since technology has taken such huge steps since manual gearboxes.




pSI civic
its great someone likes an idea i have for a change! i liked that idea for the points system a lot. i like our combined engine ideas to.

oh yea, the points idea was genius. I really like it. and I've wanted to see different engines on the grid for quite some time. I started watching F1 beginning with Suzuka '03 and since all I have to remember what it was like with different engine types is F1 decade. I would like to see how it would happen today and what it would sound like.(turbo V6's and n/a V12's revving up to 18,000 rpms? hell yes!!!!)




pSI civic
i didnt bring up turbos though because the turbo era engines were unreliable and the last time i said they should allow turbos again no one liked it.

like I said, technology has changed A LOT since the turbo era. not just in F1, but in road cars and aftermarket parts. I mean, you can buy a turbo kit and fabricate it on your mini-van and have it still be reliable as long as you don't go over board with anything, let alone designing an engine that will be turbocharged and expecting it to make over 1200bhp and 900lb/ft of torque.




pSI civic
i love the idea about starters as well.

thank Max Mosely about that. thats one of those things I borrowed from his 2008 proposal. it was so obvious, I don't know why no one thought of it before.




pSI civic
i think limiting testing it dangerous. by doing that there is a chance something could break due to less testing than was needed.

same here. thats what I was trying to say, but I didn't know how to phrase it. it just came out of my mouth as "it's stupid".




pSI civic
i think a team should be able to have 3 cars on grid with only the top two from that team getting constructor points but the drivers still getting driver points.

like I said. I think this would be a bad idea. but I would like to have 13 manufacturers on the grid with two cars a piece. I don't know if you have, but I've watched old F1 races with like 24-26 cars on the grid and I thought that was a lot of cars. I've even seen some Formula Ford 2000 Zetec races and Star Mazda races where cars are up to 40 cars on the same track and that is just pure lunacy. it is almost dangerous when pitting, coming out of the pits, etc. I belive 24 or 26 cars on the grid is just enough to be entertaining, but not enough to be dangerous.




pSI civic
i want to see drivers get as many qualifying laps as they can get it. just like practice.

I like this idea as well. the FIA obviously did away with the old qualifying session for a reason and obviously don't want to go back to it. so for the current one to change, something better has to be put in it's place. so I say extend the qualifying time from one hour to 2.5 hours split up in 4 session through out the day. I say a 10 minute warm up session to get everything started. if the teams aren't out within these 10 mins, they will start from the back. the 4 session will be divided into 35 minute chunks with 15 min breaks in between. drivers/teams will be able to put in 5 complete laps per session. this will give time for the teams and drivers to get a good lap and come into the garage and review the data, go to the bathroom, get something to eat, etc. if the teams are satisfied with their qualifying effort, they may stop at any time without notice to the stewards.




pSI civic
from a cost point of view i like the one tire maker rule and it evens that playing field out. no more good cars on bad tires and bad cars on good tires. it focuses more on having a good car then good tires.

I am for this idea. but to keep the tire manufacturer from turning it into a monolopy and doing what they want to do, a guideline must be set during the signing of the contract. I've heard of a tire manufacturer doing this in the 70's. the selected manufacture must supply the teams with 3 different dry compounds, soft/medium/hard. 2 different intermediate compounds, hard/soft. and one extreme weather(wet) compound, soft. the teams must specify to the selected manufacturer how many of each tires/compounds they want before each GP to keep costs down from unused tires. they will be able to decide this on data they get from off-season testing, testing, and race data. basically, any time they get some data on how the tires perform.




pSI civic
something i think would be a great idea is to make a rule that forces the use of very strong materials for the suspension parts. as we have all seen a tiny bump can break a wheel of which sucks. i think by making the suspenson stronger these tiny bumps wont hurt the car as much thus keeping it in the race.

there isn't much they can do about this now. remember, back before Senna died, they used steel and you still saw what happened there. the switch to carbon fiber pieces was definately a step waaayyy forward in terms of saftey and strength. right now, cabon fiber is the strongest material with the least weight penalty out there that you can use. it's just that at those speeds, no matter what is holding on the wheel, if two wheels touch, something will break. it's just physics. we don't have anything that strong yet. I mean look at what happens to normal street cars with covered wheels when they get into accidents at 50mph, let alone uncovered wheels at 170+mph.









well, thats my re-review of my proposal and yours. sorry it was so much to read, but there wasn't really a "short version" of this. I also added a couple of new ideas and went in depth with a couple of them as well. I like some of the ideas you proposed as well as some of the ones I came up with. once all this gets good enough, I might actually type a draft of these rules up and send it to the FIA. I would actually like to see these rules put into action since they are actually feasable imo. thats it for now.




rock. :cool:
 
ground effects were done away with because when the car went over a bump the car would jump. it works for gp2 because they are slower.

the old points system was good for giving the winner more points but i like having lower positions get points to. the winner getting 4 or 5 more points then 2nd is good and i have a 3 point difference from 2nd to 3rd as well which i think is importent. the half point for 10th is also good in order to break ties and when it comes down to it it promotes consistency. most of the time its going to be a jordan car/driver getting that half point so it wont matter to kimi or ms but if by chance they have a problem all is not lost if they place in say 9th or 10th.

as to the different engines (v6 v8 v10 v12) it would be great to see it but the weight of the v12 would take it out of contention on all but tracks like monza and the turbo v6 would pretty much rule everything in between due to lightweight and a power spike at high revs. it would have to be limited to 1 and a half to 2 bars max or there would be no contest. i like the idea of at least a v8 v10 and v12 n/a on the grid. like i said before it would let teams select races they know they could do good at and pic the engine they want to use as opposed to the races they wont be good at and focus on winning what they can. it might even be possible to run a v8 at one race and a v12 at another in the same car... say a v8 at spa at a v12 at hockenhiem.

sure tech has moved up a lot since the turbo era but it would still be a problem with cars making 1500bhp. if the turbos were limited to making 1000bhp i would love having turbos again. by limiting the max power teams could use smaller turbos thus not having as much lag.

i know the idea was from maxs 2008 proposal. i read it a while ago and even made a post on it. i just think its a great idea.

yes by limiting testing the teams might have more failures like kimis at the euro gp because they didnt test like they should have.

i have seen old f1 races and i know how good 24 or 26 cars is. but what i'm saying is that lets say ferrari have a bad day and mike finishs 17th. the other two drivers could still bring home points and it could be reverse the next day. it makes the constructors more interesting and puts more drivers on the grid without having to make more teams which as we all know is very hard to do. thats why red bull wanted a jr team. if we had let them just have an extra car they wouldnt have needed to buy minardi. by only letting the top two get constructor points it make sure that if a team gets 1-2-3 its not a run away race for them in the points. it would be really good if they worked on different point scales. if all positions got constructor points this idea would work better then it would with the current system.

qualifying was changed so all cars would get tv air time. it was a marketing thing. by having each car only get one lap you ensure that all sponsers get shown on tv. its bs but its life. if they made the sessions longer no one would put them on tv. no tv channel wants to show 4 hours of f1 qualifying. thats why they dont show all the practice sessions. the time they they would need to use for the extra long qualifying is already taken up by pracitce so thats another problem.

what you said on tires is spot on with what i ment.

street cars wreck so bad at 50 because they are ment to. they have crumple zones that lessen the impact on the driver. its true they cant do much about it in f1 though so i suppose its worthless to argue about it. i was just thinking at lower speed thinker parts and such might be better.
 
They use steel suspension in Champ Car and at Montreal someone slapped the wall of champions 2 or 3 times without ill effect. Do we want drivers being able to continue a race after they make mistakes like that? Should F1 cars be invincible? IMO, they should not. I think if a driver makes a big mistake, his race should be over.

Also, at the European GP, nothing would have been able to survive that flat-spot. If steel suspension was used it would have warped long before the carbon fibre broke. Those wheels are heavy, and that wheel had such momentum and was vibrating so hard, it was putting alot of strain on the suspension of the car.

Now, to tell you guys the truth, many of my own proposals I don’t agree with, but they are plausable solutions to some of F1s problems. And that’s what this thread is about. What do you think is wrong with F1, how can it be fixed?

Blake
 
thats what I've had in mind when making the proposals. I thought about how entertaining it would be watching it and still keeping it the best performing car on the planet.





rock. :cool:
 

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