How do you define success and how would you achieve it

Discussion in 'The Rumble Strip' started by DR_MOJO91, Jul 23, 2018.

?

How do you define success and how would you achieve it

  1. MGTOW

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Avoid relationships

    4.2%
  3. Focus on self improvment

    50.0%
  4. Building emotional relationships

    12.5%
  5. Being Content

    70.8%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,335
    Location:
    United States
    Rubbing the wrong way? No. However, to start out a post with "Then why post" doesn't really seem like you're trying to invite discussion in the first place, and given the track record, that opinion was reinforced.

    If you're truly interested, I don't have anything more than a high school diploma. I was raised in a relatively easy-going environment, and didn't have many stressful situations growing up. With my current work I suppose I could be seen as middle class, which definitely contributes to my well being and general happiness, as I don't feel too constricted most the time. I am living comfortably enough that I don't feel I need to constantly chase money.

    Am I the most successful? No, but I really don't feel "unsuccessful" at my current point in life.
     
  2. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    My job as an engineer has less to do with technical things at the current moment but more so on the management side of things. I see people from all education backgrounds, and none of that matters, of course certain people are required as they have certain skill sets and what not, but a harmonious team environment is far more productive than say a guy smarter than 10 people put together but hoarding his knowledge in fear of losing say his power per say. Comfort zones I think can sometimes set as up for failure. We can aspire for a lot of things but for many can be seen as subjective.
     
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  3. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    The phrase you're looking for is "rubbing you up the wrong way", or just "rubbing you the wrong way". "Rubbing you off" means exactly what he thinks it means, and is exactly that dirty.

    Don't blame others for your poor English, Mr. Engineer.
     
    baldgye and ImaRobot like this.
  4. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Hmmm hostile, basically trying to put down someone.

     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
  5. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    You're the one who accused someone else of having a dirty mind based on something you posted. I just pointed out that the language you used is rightly interpreted in that way, and that the phrase that you actually wanted was something else. Yes, I added a little snark at the end since you threw in the question of sexual orientation. It seemed fair.

    Seems to me like the mature thing to do would be to own up to the fact that you didn't use the right phrasing and you snapped at someone who posted a witty (and relatively benign) observation of that.

    But hey, keep going by accusing me of having an inferiority complex. We can all see your post history in this thread. You think that we're jealous of your success, Mr. Engineer? You could be right. But I sort of doubt it. Seems to me like any road to success would have to start with an ability to be able to acknowledge one's faults and not start abusing people on the internet for literally nothing.

    You want success? If you can't explain even in general terms what you want to get out of the next five to ten years, you'll find it impossible to be successful. Yes, you're about at a stage in your life and career that is beginning to be recognised as one that is something of a mini crisis point. You're out of the no-experience graduate phase and you have some skills to offer, but you get shut out of a lot of positions of greater responsibility or opportunity because you're still deemed too green. It can be really hard to progress career-wise as a scientist-type from 25 to 35, outside of simply gathering experience which doesn't feel progressive. Basically, the feeling that you're having at this stage isn't uncommon. I work with a guy right now going through what sounds like pretty much the same thing.

    It's largely about the drive to keep bettering yourself. Some people legitimately don't really have it. You appear to, and that's a good thing. The world could do with more people like that. If you can't get what you need at your work, I'd suggest looking outside of work. I and people I know have had good results from taking on things that they felt addressed some of their deficiencies and made them stronger people. One guy worked with a lot of non-native speakers and felt bad because they could speak multiple languages fluently and he could only speak English, so he learned another language. Another was uncomfortable with groups of people and being a leader, but he wanted to work in a managerial role so he started volunteering for the Boy Scouts to gain experience leading groups and teaching. My colleague that I mentioned above volunteers for the SES (Australian State Emergency Service) as that has a bunch of skills that he wants (and he likes helping people). And so on.

    Choose who you want to be in ten years, and then do something that works towards that. Every time you get a bit closer, you will feel like you're succeeding. Because you are. If you want to start simply, ask yourself what is one thing about yourself that you'd be disappointed if it was the same in ten years. Then figure out how you're going to change it.
     
    FerrariF1GT and ImaRobot like this.
  6. Moglet

    Moglet Premium

    Messages:
    11,677
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    He was just correcting a slightly mis-worded quote, I'm not sure how you get from that to suggesting that his reply was "hostile" and that he was putting someone down!
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2018
    FerrariF1GT, Imari and ImaRobot like this.
  7. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,335
    Location:
    United States
    It’s ironic considering that’s literally all you’re trying to do with some stupid YouTube video. Stop projecting.
     
    baldgye and Imari like this.
  8. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Nah some are just trying to bait for an emotional response. Seen the same gander many times. Spread positivity not negativity.
     
  9. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,335
    Location:
    United States
    You keep insinuating things like that and about being humble but you really don't seem to be taking that on-board yourself, to be honest. You shut out opinions that differ from yours with backhanded comments, you throw your job around(even going so far to try to belittle people because of it), and get upset with people when they ask about your opinions in detail. That's not exactly what I would call spreading positivity.
     
    Imari likes this.
  10. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    bd084ee9e7f6a2595b81579ca9b5595544929d7d7b38656365538d3917019c99.jpg
     
  11. SlipZtrEm

    SlipZtrEm Administrator

    Messages:
    27,179
    Location:
    Canada
    Like referring to someone as a bitter ex?

    It's not bait — it's correcting a mis-worded saying. @Danoff just used Bob Belcher Sterling Archer to humorously point it out.

    Dude, roughly half of your 52 posts on this site don't even follow that.

    Nonetheless, it is good advice.
     
  12. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

    Messages:
    2,086
    Success is what your happy with.

    It doesn’t need to be defined with having the most of something, or defined by others.

    Living life is a success.
     
    Latvija27 and ImaRobot like this.
  13. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    To be fair, some people are pretty hard-wired into a bit of a competitive success mode. I know, I'm a lot like that myself sometimes. Particularly professionally, I tend to feel pretty good about myself when I solve problems or do tasks that few or no other people around me could have done.

    You can fight that up to a point, but eventually you realise that at least part of what makes you happy is working hard and personal development. Nothing wrong with that, a lot of really great humans got where they are through similar mindsets. You've just got to be a bit careful that your expectations of yourself are reasonable and achievable, and that you're not setting yourself up for frustration or burn out.
     
  14. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    I think most people that never amounted to anything usually make excuses for their shortcomings in life, lack of hard work & dedication let alone any commitment to push through when the going gets tough.
     
    Latvija27 likes this.
  15. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

    Messages:
    2,086
    Agreed, although is a competitive success defined by yourself or others?

    Can you define what never amounted to anything means?
     
  16. alp

    alp

    Messages:
    152
    For me being content is more related to overall satisfaction/happiness (which also includes success) than success alone. At a certain point one's EIQ also plays a more important role than IQ alone. Therefore the ability to build relationships (private and professional) are important too.
     
  17. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    You're aware that someone can work really hard all their life and through timing or misfortune not be particularly successful professionally?

    The American idea that anyone who works hard can be successful does not imply that anyone who is not successful professionally hasn't worked hard. Unfortunately, many people seem to believe that's the case. The reality is that you could be the smartest, hardest working dude in the world, but if you keep getting management that hamstrings you, companies that shut down or move overseas, and life events that impact your health and well-being for no reasons within your control then there's really a pretty hard ceiling on what you can achieve.

    Hard work goes a long way and it's very unlikely that you'll do well without it, but there has to be a little good luck in there as well. Or at least there has to be not too much bad luck.

    In the sense that we're talking about it in this thread, it's self-defined. If you feel like you beat other people, that's competitive success.
     
    UKMikey, Skython, Northstar and 3 others like this.
  18. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

    Messages:
    2,086
    This is the part I struggled with, I’m a full time Dad and if success is measured professionally then that would make me a flat out failure.
     
  19. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    I made that distinction because it seems like that's the main area in which the OP is measuring his success. It's also a lot easier to explain the idea of failure despite ones best efforts with reference to professional success, but it can apply just as well to just about anything. I could imagine one working really hard to be a good father and still end up failing their child in some catastrophic way through no fault of their own (knock on wood).

    It's part of why I'm not a massive fan of measuring people by results. That's not always something that's under their control. You'd just as well judge them for what the weather is like. However, what is under their control is how much skill and effort they applied to something, and I think that's a fair basis for judging someone.

    I think it's a fair basis for judging oneself too; I used to be rather hard on myself before I came up with this idea that if someone makes reasonable and rational choices and works hard to execute them then the result shouldn't really come into it. But here's where it gets difficult. Success or failure is kind of by definition based on results.

    Ultimately, I suspect the thread is asking the wrong question. "How can I be successful?" is not the right question, "How can I be happy/satisfied with what I do with my life?" is. Bringing success into it means that you set yourself up to be undermined psychologically for things that were not your fault.
     
    FerrariF1GT, ImaRobot and rono_thomas like this.
  20. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Potential and shoulda woulda coulda doesn't cut it in the real world. Hence why I'm wondering what your background is to see how different people perceive achievements in their life. The thread stated: "To me I want to achieve more in my life but on a monetary and emotional level. How do you feel a person in their 20's can achieve economic growth? What investments ? Personal growth ? Relationships? Tips/Advice", you can easily make your thread if your trying to redefine what I mentioned. I asked what's your background in terms of job, education and things along that line.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2018
  21. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    Yeah, it actually does. People who are interested in your future potential rather than what you've achieved in the past will look at how you went about things rather than actual results. Arguably the decisions you made and why you made them are orders of magnitude more important than the actual outcome, at least in terms of assessing future performance potential.

    You know how when you have a job interview and they ask you about your past experience, a good interviewer will ask you to walk through how you achieved something and why you made those choices? That's because they're more interested in how you think and act than the specific results that you achieved.

    Just because someone happened to be at Apple during the original iPhone development doesn't make them amazing. It's what they worked on and how they went about it that will tell you whether they actually contributed or are just one of those mooches that mails it in every day and then jumps on the bandwagon when the project finishes.

    I find it interesting that you're apparently in a managerial position and you still think that results trump how you got top the result. It's an issue that many managers come up against, and it leads to some pretty nasty stuff. You end up blaming the messenger a lot (because making the right decisions and failing is in your eyes a failure), and rewarding people who simply happened to be in the right place at the right time (because being a lazy moron and getting results is a success). Ultimately it leads to a mindset where you divorce yourself entirely from the people behind the job and just look at numbers, which is a great way to build a team of people who are resentful and antagonistic.

    Managers who only consider results rather than actions are almost universally bad managers. It's incredibly hard to get good results out of people who hate you.

    To bring it back to the professional arena (because it's simpler), do you really only judge people based on results? Think about this: if you're hiring someone, what are the things that you would look for in order to tell you that they'll be a good fit for the role you want?

    I'm doing just fine here taking part in this discussion, thanks. If you think that what I'm posting is off-topic, report it to the mods.

    The title of the thread is "How do you define success and how would you achieve it?". If you don't want that particular question addressed, maybe don't put it in the title.

    Well, you only asked me in this post right here, so I'm not sure why you're making it sound like you've asked me previously and I refused to answer. That's just not true.

    I think based on your past posts in this thread you're simply asking so that you can attempt to use them to belittle me. We shall see how true that is. The reality is that I'm in a job where putting it on the internet is potentially risky for my employer and myself, so you're just not going to get any specifics. You can read into that what you like, but I will not endanger my job or personal safety for the sake of an internet discussion. If I say "defence contractor" I'm sure you can understand why.

    I have a scientific qualification, I've been in the industry for about fifteen years, and my positions tend to be either research and development or QA/production support. I do and have worked with salesmen, businessmen, production staff, engineers and scientists (at least in as much as there's a practical distinction between engineers and scientists, to a layman an engineer is a scientist). I am what is commonly described as middle management; I have responsibility for my area of the business and the people involved in it but limited input in business decisions or direction (beyond "yes, we could do that" or "no, that's the dumbest idea I ever heard and you'll kill someone if we try that"). On the other hand, within my local company I'm the most experienced and knowledgable person in my field, and within the international business as a whole there's probably half a dozen of us or so who are more or less on the same page.

    I think I've done all right establishing myself as an expert within my (somewhat niche) field and working into a position of influence and responsibility. And I'm enough of a generalist and have done well enough developing personal relationships within the business that I have good involvement in most areas of the business outside of finance (which I'm attempting to learn more about, because I'm the sort of person that gets annoyed when there's something I don't understand).

    I would have said that I'm a fair approximation of the next stage of professional development that you want to reach, and so you'd think that my advice might be something worth considering even if you disagree or don't wish to follow the same path. I'd say that at minimum in order to progress you're going to need to lose the "black and white" attitude and learn to appreciate the shades of grey.

    You asked for advice, maybe don't spit in the face of people offering it, hm?
     
    FerrariF1GT, rono_thomas and ImaRobot like this.
  22. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Nice life story posted there.
     
  23. W3HS

    W3HS Premium

    Messages:
    25,796
    Location:
    Thailand
    Talk about personal finances, career prospects and education have little to do with success in my opinion.

    The most successful people in my book are the ones living their life how they want, outside of what’s considered success by society.

    Broke-ass hippies living off the land in a disused converted school bus reading Voltaire with their likeminded hippy chums are succeeding in a way most people couldn’t imagine.

    I’m not saying this is my personal definition of success but ask these hippies if they’re successful and in their mind they’ve done better than 99% of society.
     
    Latvija27, UKMikey, Skython and 4 others like this.
  24. Imari

    Imari

    Messages:
    11,075
    Location:
    Australia
    OK, I'm done. You asked for information and I gave it to you. This is your response?

    I apologise for trying to engage with you.

    I thought the above was decent advice. Obviously you disagree.

    You need to learn to follow your own advice before you're going to get anywhere that even approaches success, Mr. Engineer.
     
    polysmut, BobK, FerrariF1GT and 2 others like this.
  25. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    27dy0c.jpg
     
  26. ImaRobot

    ImaRobot Premium

    Messages:
    12,335
    Location:
    United States
    For all you preach, this is all a bit pathetic really. All this talk as if you’re humble or positive seem to be just a lie.
     
    Northstar, BobK and Imari like this.
  27. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Hmmmm okay
     
  28. W3HS

    W3HS Premium

    Messages:
    25,796
    Location:
    Thailand
    This thread certainly isn’t a success.
     
  29. rono_thomas

    rono_thomas Premium

    Messages:
    2,086
    Why ask? What a stupid response.
     
    ImaRobot, BobK and Imari like this.
  30. DR_MOJO91

    DR_MOJO91

    Messages:
    84
    Nah just get to the point.