How good we be in real life?

I say bring back the slicks!!! Oh and GT3 does help up to a certain extent to improve ur driving. Ive been playing F1 simulations since 1995, when I was 13, and Ive been thru all the GT's, except GTC. And I must say I have acquired much more knowledge about racing than the ppl around me who never tried these games. Ive been to a racing school and they started to explain what an apex is, and racing lines and bla bla bla.. All stuff I figured out by myself while playing the F1 sims and GT. The only new thing I learned was the "heal-toe" technique which was absolutely necessary for downshifting with the unsynchronised gear boxes from those "beginner" Formula cars. So what Im saying is not that im a race car driver cuz of these games, but with practice in a real race car, we would improve much quicker than someone who doesnt know anything about racing yet.
 
Actually, I think the sims are great for learning race tracks, but don't give enough feeling to learn how to drive cars. It can provide a basis for beginners, but driving with a controller at 220mph isn't even like driving 50mph in any real car.

Jacques Villeneuve even admitted he'd driven a simulator to learn the Spa-Francorchamps circuit way back in '96. He finished 2nd at his first race there.

So, to summarize: Sims are good for learning where to drive, but not how to drive.
 
GT3 doesn't help you at all when you are learning to drive. I completely agree with neon_duke on that one.

When you first start driving, lets say the first couple of weeks, there is a lot of stuff comming at you. You have to take in so many things from what is going on around you and what you have to do that you automatically drive quite slow. Then there also is the additional factor of being unfamiliar with driving a car and not knowing the exact power and reaction of the machine. So I can tell you that you will definitly not think about using those racing lines.

I'm also of the opinion that people should get atleast 3+ years of driving experience before they can even start thinking about racing (and drifting:rolleyes: ...).

As far as I am concerned, playing computer games is not comparable to any kind of driving in real life. Just think about it! There have been a lot of good reasons given in this thread why it isn't comparable. It is a perfect tool for learning tracks but you could also do that by studying a map.
 
I haven't seen this mentioned, but undeniably the worse thing about gran turismo 3 is that it doesn't show damage. Im not talking about hitting the wall damage, but normal wear and tear, such as breaking the steering column, bending a tire, loosing a gearbox, malfunction, anything.

Also, in my experience with actual racing, body roll is the most poorly portrayed thing in gt3 I have ever seen. This is where actual driving comes into play, managing to shift the cars weight to the appropriate place for correct turning grip, without spinning, bottoming out, slowing the car down excessively, breaking something, et cetera.

Oftentimes in real racing, the drives loose gears, or have mechanical malfunctions, and they have to adapt immediately to continue racing and stay alive in the points championship, and manufactures championship. This is why they are the best.

Also, in my opinion, oval track racing is portrayed poorly in Gt3, the physics, and settings for camber and toe are completely unrealistic, it is as if they don't take into account the spring rates, im running a mixture of kart theories which run without springs, coinciding with damper rebounds and bounds from real racing, to get a correctly handeling vehicle. Now you tell me how that is realistic?

Also, in gran turismo, you have no idea of the heat, forces, strain, et cetera that real drivers go through.

I'd also like to put this in :

I drive a 1994 firebird coupe, with a very low 160hp, and 200 ft lbs of torque in a 3400 lb car. I have been racing karts for 4 years, this is at the level of professional mind you, and have done every racing sin game I know.

After I got my license and have had them for about a month, I decided I knew everything and began to over accelerate my car. Now it isn't even positive traction, but I nearly got myself killed, when I took off to fast from an intersection, and the rear end broke loose halfway through the left handed turn and it continued to fishtail for the remainder of the turn, with me almost hitting a minivan RUNNING a red light.

Given, I feel my experience in karts helped me quickly straighten the car back up, and I could feel when to brake/accelerate/degree of turn et cetera to regain control ASAP, however, none of this is experienced in gt3, and neither karting nor GT3 helped me keep this from happening.

I guess the bottom line is that real experience in an actual racing machine is the best form of training ever, but there is a reason that none of us here will make it to F1 racing, nascar, trans am, rally, et cetera.

Because we are not the drivers, they are.

-Sominon
 
and... now when ur going in real life u turn a corner at about 20 mph without slowing down u know what happens
now add about 150 mph to that and then what happens

i recomend dont play gt3 the same day that u have to be perfect at driving... license test, drivers ed... things like that you will over accel, brake too hard, turn too sharp...

and on gt3 u race ur f1 with traction control on right... of course u do who would drift an f1... now traction control cant hold back 200 hp car what makes u think it will hold back a 750hp cart...???

all i can think of but anyways ya i kinda its like ya they suck im better than that
 
People should only fear them if they themselves don't see where the game ends.

GT3 still is and always will be (untill GT4 comes out ;)) the greatest game on earth! It is what it is, a GAME.
 
- 07-07-03 @ 5:05 AM Quoted from Solid Lifters,

"I would just like to add that I live in Southern California, and for the past several months there hasn't been a week that went by where I didn't here of a story on the local news about some damn fool teenager crashing and killing someone or himself/herself because he/she was racing.

Just because you see the movie THE FAST AND THE FURIOUS and play racing games dosen't mean you can race a car in real life. Like neon said, it takes skill and lots of experience and still bad things can happen that cause serious injury or death.

One last thing, did you ever notice how F1 cars have treaded tires? They have to. F1 cars go to fast on slicks and cause soo many g's on the driver, the drivers start to pass out! (7 to 9 g's). I doubt that any of you have spent time even reaching 3 g's in life. The wildest rollercoasters hit only 2.5 g's! Just something to think about."


Actually, coasters are up to about 4 g's now!


;)
 
Originally posted by DoZeRxXx
and... now when ur going in real life u turn a corner at about 20 mph without slowing down u know what happens
now add about 150 mph to that and then what happens

i recomend dont play gt3 the same day that u have to be perfect at driving... license test, drivers ed... things like that you will over accel, brake too hard, turn too sharp...

and on gt3 u race ur f1 with traction control on right... of course u do who would drift an f1... now traction control cant hold back 200 hp car what makes u think it will hold back a 750hp cart...???

all i can think of but anyways ya i kinda its like ya they suck im better than that
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Dude, what the hell are you talking about?? :confused: :confused:
 
Originally posted by Sominon
I guess the bottom line is that real experience in an actual racing machine is the best form of training ever, but there is a reason that none of us here will make it to F1 racing, nascar, trans am, rally, et cetera.

Because we are not the drivers, they are.

-Sominon
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Please dont mix up racing series like nascar and trans am with F1 and rally. Thats like comparing **** and chocolate. And that goes the same for the drivers from each series. I see these fat drivers that dont look in shape at all doing these trans am/nascar races. Try to find that in F1 or rally. Totally different skill. And if you ask me, anyone can do nascar, but only a select few can do F1.
 
I saw some of some NASCAR race on Saturday at my in-laws house. ZZZzzzz. Round and round they go. Some guy was so amazed at how close they are together at such high speeds, but who cares? The could be going sixty miles and hour and you couldn't tell the difference. Round and round in a circle. Boring. I've tried to accept NASCAR as legitimate racing and I just can't. Compared to LeMans style or F1 racing it's amateur crap.
 
I find that funny, because oftentimes when drivers from formula, or other road course style races go to nascar, they do alot worse.

Did you see the special on where Jeff Gordon switched cars with an indy car driver? I believe this is an exact quote

"I don't see how they drive that outdated p.o.s how they do".

It takes a little something to be 3 wide 190+ in a taxicab.
 
Originally posted by Sominon
I find that funny, because oftentimes when drivers from formula, or other road course style races go to nascar, they do alot worse.

Did you see the special on where Jeff Gordon switched cars with an indy car driver? I believe this is an exact quote

"I don't see how they drive that outdated p.o.s how they do".

It takes a little something to be 3 wide 190+ in a taxicab.
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I read about that special. And I saw that Montoya did alot better than Gordon with the car switch. Which I think proves the fact that these Nascar drivers are inferior.
 
Within 3 laps Gordon had the car up to optimum qualifying speed.

Also, do you ever watch the IROC series? Every single car is completely equal, let's see, before death, Dale Earnhardt was the king of those races, Mark Martin is now the leading alltime winner in them, the open wheel guys do okay, but im not impressed with their passing capabilities, they always seem to misjudge the apex and loose downforce by getting to close to another car and oftentimes harm the car severely.
 
I like GT class racing and I like prototypes especially. All the cars being equal doesn't matter to me. You can win with less HP if you're good enough. Now this is a race car!
bentley-expspeed801.jpg
 
Really? I've never seen any of those around where I live/

Also, you'll never own a bentley, moreless the bentley race car, which looks nothing like their actual cars they make.

I do however see multiple monte carlos, tauruses, grand prix's and intrepids everyday.

Also, I have done both road course style racing, and oval, and oval is especially challenging, more so then road course, because it requires more indepth car tuning, more perfect racing lines, more thinking about passing oportunities, and is more dangerous because of the higher speeds.
 
rat im juz saying that u prob couldnt handle the leaning and the not very well working traction crontrol same with that one guy who always crashes he prob not used to it yet
 
Originally posted by Sominon
Really? I've never seen any of those around where I live/

Also, you'll never own a bentley, moreless the bentley race car, which looks nothing like their actual cars they make.
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So?

I do however see multiple monte carlos, tauruses, grand prix's and intrepids everyday.
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Uh huh. Stickers instead of lights. Fiber bodies. Roll-cages. Racing slicks. Get a street Monte Carlo to 190 and get back to me. They merely use the body styling to appeal to people who drink beer out of a can.

Also, I have done both road course style racing, and oval, and oval is especially challenging, more so then road course, because it requires more indepth car tuning, more perfect racing lines, more thinking about passing oportunities, and is more dangerous because of the higher speeds.
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You're just talking stupid now. Carol Shelby himself claims his greatest achievement in racing was winning LeMans, not some oval snooze fest. And the speeds are not faster. F1 cars go in excess of 200 mph and so do LeMans prototypes. But they have to do a lot more than make the same wide left turn over and over. Anyone can go the same speed for hours on end. Make the car do something.

So, like, when you watch a NASCAR race, what are you watching? All that action packed excitement.

"Ooohh. Look at that. He veered to the right a bit. My heart is all aflutter!" :rolleyes:

So go a head and fantasize your Monte Carlo (named after an F1 course) is a race car.
 
im with milefile :)
But we also have an example of this in GT3. The test course, and speedway. Those are so boring. Test Course is the ultimate boring track, and speedway is right behind. And so many ppl use the rubberband trick on speedway cuz they dont care for that race, just the prize.
 
Originally posted by Sominon
Also, I have done both road course style racing, and oval, and oval is especially challenging, more so then road course, because it requires more indepth car tuning, more perfect racing lines, more thinking about passing oportunities, and is more dangerous because of the higher speeds.
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I keep thinking about this paragraph. "More in depth car tuning"? Are you serious?! To turn left in the same gear for hours on end? "More perfect racing lines"? I guess when you do the same line over and over and over you'd perfect it eventually.
 
Originally posted by milefile
II guess when you do the same line over and over and over you'd perfect it eventually.
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But there's always someone doing that lap even more perfectly. Throw in the chaos factor, and sometimes NASCAR is a real hoot. NASCAR is entertainment, I do watch it, but it is quite far from real-life motorsports. Comparing it to F1 is like apples and oranges. I use the "Mountain Range Theory" to compare racing series.

The Winston (Nextel) Cup is the pinnacle of oval racing. F1 is the peak of European-derived open-wheeled racing. WRC is the summit of rallying. Motorsports comprise a mountain range, not a single mountain or hill. The preparation involved in climbing to the peak of one mountain involves starting at the base to do well in another form of motorsports.

Plus, it's equally dangerous!
 
The tuning is more fine because as compared to a track with both turns, you can't tune the car for a specific set, you have to leave it broad for all things, where as in nascar your tuning perfectly for that one turn, and most would say no driver is required, but, when you include things such as changing track conditions, traffic, movement of the groove, your having to do twice the amount of car work in a fourth of the time.

As I said, I have done both forms of racing, and I find the oval much more difficult, driving wise, and crew cheif wise.

As for your poor gt3 relation, Oval racing in GT3 is so misrepresented that I don't even do it, it is the absolute furthest thing away from a simulation in the game.
 
Originally posted by milefile
I keep thinking about this paragraph. "More in depth car tuning"? Are you serious?! To turn left in the same gear for hours on end? "More perfect racing lines"? I guess when you do the same line over and over and over you'd perfect it eventually.
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This goes to show me how little you know about actual oval racing, nearly half of the season is composed of short track racing, in which the driver shifts gears up to 6-7 times in a mile. You obviously have no knowledge of racing lines either. Imagine 43 cars going over the same spot on the track, the grip and line changes approximately every 10-20 laps or so, or around twice between each pit stop. Now factor in weather conditions, wind, and what not, and you have a very tricky path to walk.

As stated in this thread, Gt3 is nothing in comparison to real racing, I see this blatantly in you, and feel that had you done both, you'd see there is equal difficulty in both.
 
getting back to the topic, u'd think i'd find more sympathetic voices in a gran turismo forum.... :odd:
either way, i just wanted to clear up that like i stated before, i doubt anyone thinks a game can help you LEARN racing or driving faster, but once you are there and have all the basics under your belt, you'll be able to progress much faster. like someone said, they were taught about apex and racing lines at a racing school, if you have to learn about that at a racing school surely you shouldn't be there??? racing lines are so obvious if you just use a little common sense. i'll stop now before it turns into a long post :D
 
Originally posted by Nightmage82
indeed and they didn't change to grooves because of the g's, it was cause the fia wanted to slow everything down to make it safer and more competitive.
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That is my point, It is safer because they are going slower around corners. They high g's they would hit with slicks made the drivers go into "gray out", something that happens before the drivers "black out" a complete loss of vision, so their recovery and reactions became quicker after going around a corner, thus having faster lap times and making it safer, from not reaching gray out. Sorry if I wasn't clear enough for you guys before.:D
 
ok Sominon, I'll stop arguing with you because I am biased on the whole Nascar thing anyways. But I still think Nascar drivers couldnt make the cut to drive an F1.
 

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