How I play GTS, anyone else?

[kevlar_hybrid]

Sit down excited to get some racing in.
Do a few warm-up laps of one of the daily races.
Spin off a number of times having induced the binary 'slide state'.
Get a bit fed up with that.
Start messing around with the steering inputs - winding on and off max lock through long steady radius corners noting how little effect this has on the path of the car.
Spin off again due to binary slide state - leave throttle wide open - watch in fascination as EVERY SINGLE end of spin cycle leaves me facing backwards down the track, no matter which track or car (engine placement).
Turn off without racing.
Total elapsed time <10mins.

It used to be that warm up (and fun) meant being way off the pace and not in the slip zone of the tyres - then 'finding the limit' - then getting comfortable playing with the car in the limit - then being able to manipulate the car in that limit to find time on the track. I think this explains my petulant behaviour described above. The limit between 1 and 0, on or off means that part of the gameplay is simply removed. Hot-laps are twitch laps. Racing is rolling the dice with the penalty system.
I have fond memories of the community modded GPL races, spending the entire time driving the car was a lesson in slip state management. Constant inputs and corrections to encourage the car to do what you wanted, almost a flow state.

Just my opinion, more than welcome to disagree.

 

[ShiftingGears]

I tend to have a similar experience with Project CARS. It feels more realistic than GT, but I don't persevere with it with a controller due to the difficulty. That, and the awful chase camera.

 

[TonyJZX]

I feel like PD does itself no favours by changing the drive/tyre model every so often.

The McLaren VGT Group X/Gr.1 was my go to machine and I knew it quite well on the Gr.X/Gr.1 events.

Then they changed the model and then I had the same experience as the OP.

I drove it and after a few corners I oversteered or undered or something in the wall and I though... WHAT'S WRONG WITH ME?

Its this meme.

So I would restart a race until I go frustrated and then do some hot laps and then realised I had to re-assess all the brake points and generally the "slide recover conditons" are much less generous.

Even now I could pick up the F1500 or the W08 and it would take me a while to get used to the drive model.

 

[Lord Protector]

Sit down excited to get some racing in.
Do a few warm-up laps of one of the daily races.
Spin off a number of times having induced the binary 'slide state'.
Get a bit fed up with that.
Start messing around with the steering inputs - winding on and off max lock through long steady radius corners noting how little effect this has on the path of the car.
Spin off again due to binary slide state - leave throttle wide open - watch in fascination as EVERY SINGLE end of spin cycle leaves me facing backwards down the track, no matter which track or car (engine placement).
Turn off without racing.
Total elapsed time <10mins.

It used to be that warm up (and fun) meant being way off the pace and not in the slip zone of the tyres - then 'finding the limit' - then getting comfortable playing with the car in the limit - then being able to manipulate the car in that limit to find time on the track. I think this explains my petulant behaviour described above. The limit between 1 and 0, on or off means that part of the gameplay is simply removed. Hot-laps are twitch laps. Racing is rolling the dice with the penalty system.
I have fond memories of the community modded GPL races, spending the entire time driving the car was a lesson in slip state management. Constant inputs and corrections to encourage the car to do what you wanted, almost a flow state.

Just my opinion, more than welcome to disagree.

Taht’s ecactly me and more I do this the bigger the intervals are between turning off the game and launching it... for me, after the final season ended, I’ve played the game for not more than 3 hours, because it’s always like this... I find myself tired of constant sliding and endless wheelspins even in a 200hp GT86... I should really practice for the emea finals but I just can’t get myself into it... I can’t do it when I always get tired of the game’s flaws.

 

[TonyJZX]

The car model has to 'click' in your head. You have to 'get' how the car drives.

I had the same issue with Forza. I'd be fine with say the LMP1s but if I tried the Indycars or F1 Renault then it'd be frustration.

With GT SPort its often the opposite. I found the intermediate Japanese races hard where I chose to race the new 300zx. I could use the R34 but let's make it harder on yourself.

I can now drive the McLaren VGT in Group 1 or X trim with TCS0 ABS1 and everything else off.

I'm still horribly slow on the F1500.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

The car model has to 'click' in your head. You have to 'get' how the car drives.

I had the same issue with Forza. I'd be fine with say the LMP1s but if I tried the Indycars or F1 Renault then it'd be frustration.

With GT SPort its often the opposite. I found the intermediate Japanese races hard where I chose to race the new 300zx. I could use the R34 but let's make it harder on yourself.

I can now drive the McLaren VGT in Group 1 or X trim with TCS0 ABS1 and everything else off.

I'm still horribly slow on the F1500.

Yes, this is true. You do have to "get it" to drive them well. I'm A+/S and I know how to drive them quick - you basically have to take slightly wet biased lines because the power on slip is so abysmal. Line it up, "square off the corner" and floor it once your wheel is straight enough.

The problem is I don't want to drive cars like that. It was fun once upon a time....

 

[Lord Protector]

Yes, this is true. You do have to "get it" to drive them well. I'm A+/S and I know how to drive them quick - you basically have to take slightly wet biased lines because the power on slip is so abysmal. Line it up, "square off the corner" and floor it once your wheel is straight enough.

The problem is I don't want to drive cars like that. It was fun once upon a time....

Yup... With GT6 I had 100 times more fun than what I have with GTS. Let’s hope PD will surprise us at the live events, I’ll sure try to tell Kaz / some engineer from PD that this part of the game needs some serious overhaul

 

[Draggon]

watch in fascination as EVERY SINGLE end of spin cycle leaves me facing backwards down the track, no matter which track or car (engine placement).

Just my opinion, more than welcome to disagree.

No kidding. It doesn't matter which way I turn the wheels or what I do with the throttle or the brake, I'm always backwards. The way that the A.I. seems to either weigh umpteen tons or be stuck to the track with magnets makes this a lot worse.

To add to the "how I play" in the title: Fire up GTSport, take a look at the daily/weekly races, think about entering one of them, get my wits about me and realize I either hate the track or know it's going to cost me a fortune in DR/SR, go back to arcade mode. Repeat every Monday morning.

 

[bduddy]

So you're expecting (presumably) a modern GT car to drive like a 1960's F1 car? That's your problem. News flash, they don't. The tires are especially different. Modern radial tires are basically like what you say - either they're gripping and working well, or they're sliding, and not. I say this having driven cars on actual tracks.

 

[super_gt]

I’ll sure try to tell Kaz / some engineer from PD that this part of the game needs some serious overhaul

I'm curious to hear the answer, but it's probably going to be: Expect big physics improvement on PS5.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

So you're expecting (presumably) a modern GT car to drive like a 1960's F1 car? That's your problem. News flash, they don't. The tires are especially different. Modern radial tires are basically like what you say - either they're gripping and working well, or they're sliding, and not. I say this having driven cars on actual tracks.

No, I'm expecting a modern super GT car to handle like a modern Super GT car. You may have missed my other thread about "Binary Clutch + Linear Throttle + Poor Tyre Model =" but to make a long story short, watch a lap of Fuji onboard IRL and compare car inputs and behaviour with any of the top guys in GTS on youtube. Nothing in common other than accuracy of cockpit and track modelling. (I exaggerate for effect, obviously)

I merely illustrated that the limits of grip are where the fun is, as such I find it lacking in this version of the game. I say this having grown up on Milliken & Milliken and having been on or led the design teams for Touring Cars, LeMans and F1 cars.

 

[Magog]

No, I don't really have those problems. Try turning on some driving aids.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

No, I don't really have those problems. Try turning on some driving aids.

I'll do that, thanks. Maybe it will help me "git gud"?

 

[Lord Protector]

No, I don't really have those problems. Try turning on some driving aids.

that's a very sad help

 

[zzz_pt]

Low speed grip is frustrating as hell. And I'm talking about race cars with medium or soft tires especially because those should be the cars with the best handling.

Today I was doing some laps around Maggiore with the 458 Gr.3 (RM tires) and, on the 2nd corner (the slowest of the circuit) I was in second gear, maybe 15% throttle at the apex and the car spun as if I was smashing it. No time to catch it at all. Spun slowly into the wall with no input having any kind of effect whatsoever. I'm but a passenger in a car spinning into the wall in 2nd gear at 60km/h...

This doesn't happen very often, but when it happens is frustrating because there's nothing I can do to save the car.

Spins and crashes at high speed when I'm throwing all in? Sure. Those are all, 100% of the time, my fault. But spinning at very low speeds and not being able to regain grip is simply stupid in this game.

I also quit sometimes because of it and go on to play a souls game. At least with those games I know they're tough but when I get rekt I recognize it's not the game's fault or bad design but because I screwed up.

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

2nd gear at 60km/h...

Yup, it's the slow speed stuff where static mass should be effecting the slip behaviour but isn't. Some think it's a gravity problem, I'm not sure. Gravity seems right on non powered roll on grades and so on. But something wrong slow speed for sure. T2 and Maggiore is a classic, you can pirouette there like you're on ice. Save a replay and watch it on TV view some time to appreciate just how unrealistic it is. Big heavy car coming through T1 under full cornering load, braking hard into the entry, turning in, front left dipping, hit the apex then WOOOOAHH WHERE DID ALL THIS ICE COME FROM?

 

[Lord Protector]

Yup, it's the slow speed stuff where static mass should be effecting the slip behaviour but isn't. Some think it's a gravity problem, I'm not sure. Gravity seems right on non powered roll on grades and so on. But something wrong slow speed for sure. T2 and Maggiore is a classic, you can pirouette there like you're on ice. Save a replay and watch it on TV view some time to appreciate just how unrealistic it is. Big heavy car coming through T1 under full cornering load, braking hard into the entry, turning in, front left dipping, hit the apex then WOOOOAHH WHERE DID ALL THIS ICE COME FROM?

It’s just this crazy low-grip wheelspin state. It’s even funnier when you grab a high powered 4wd car, put on normal Sport tyres and go for a ride on Tsukuba. You’ll find that the car will go around most of the corners like a crab - sideways. Because basically under acceleration while turning all the tyres start spinning and tyres don’t know what to do, you’ll end up going sideways.

What would happen in real life is that the tyres would fight so much that this scenario wouln’t be possible. Front tyres would bite into the asphalt and rear tyres might struggle for grip a bit but definitelly not crab walking like GTS.

 

[Magog]

that's a very sad help

I don't get the shame around it. When traction control was allowed in F1 did Michael Schumacher turn it off out of pride to show off how good he was without it? No, he used every tool at his disposal to win.

 

[Lord Protector]

I don't get the shame around it. When traction control was allowed in F1 did Michael Schumacher turn it off out of pride to show off how good he was without it? No, he used every tool at his disposal to win.

It’s sad if that help I mean. I know for standing starts it’s impossible to accelerate faster without TCS than with one.

 

[Boedefeld]

This game isn’t realistic enough for a sim approach and not fun enough for an arcade approach. They’re stuck in the middle and gamers suffer because of it

 

[Zipperface]

Same here. Going to a track with new motivation, to give that poor game another try. After some hundred meters and few corners, i instantly turn off the ps4. GT-S was and still is a dead birth. I dont even claim about the poor physics, but for what it want to be- it just feels like ****
It is so far behind other games and the car behavior is so strange, its out of our dimension. It is more or less just a social media photo game, with option to "drive". But not a racing game. I know the fanboys love it but everytime i ask myself whats wrong with this persons? Looks like they never drived something else or have a wheel or some kind of understandings of the physics in the world we are living.
If kaz use the same engine again on GT7 it will be the same dead birth and would give gran turismo the final hit.

 

[Groundfish]

What’s good? Project cars2? Ac?
All threads downplaying gt sports superior ffb and physics always mention other titles.
Drive what feels good to you.
You will never get agreement from a group of people ranging from actual racers to sheltered folks living with mom and dad. It’s impossible.
It’s all good.
Honestly to all the physics experts out there you build a game. Let’s see it.
Lol

 

[zzz_pt]

All threads downplaying gt sports superior ffb and physics

OK, this is a joke for sure...

People mention PC2 and AC, especially, because those games/sims have way better FFB and Physics models. And at low speeds there's no debate.

We don't need to make a racing game to know what's best. We just need to have experience driving and racing cars in real life.

 

[Groundfish]

OK, this is a joke for sure...

People mention PC2 and AC, especially, because those games/sims have way better FFB and Physics models. And at low speeds there's no debate.

We don't need to make a racing game to know what's best. We just need to have experience driving and racing cars in real life.

That is the common message all across the internet. Doesn’t make it true. You have to define what is better ffb?
More canned effects? More bumps and shakes? More adjustability to make it feel how you like? Is that realism or adjustability?
What is better physics? Yes, cars with a lot of power at low speed with a lot of steering angle can be twitchy if you make mistakes. That’s reality.
Look I have no allegiance to any game or anyone. I enjoy all games related to driving. Right now I have 3.
For me for pure driving Ac and GT Sport are almost a dead heat with GT Sport slightly ahead. Project 2 has many tracks and weather but is behind on driving. For me it’s obvious. To many online who relate more to games than reality the whole deal is skewed to heck and all based on referring to video games as simulators. To me it doesn’t matter whether it runs on pc or console or Atari or what without full blown hydraulics etc like real race teams use it’s a video game.
I doubt it’s you personally, but there is definitely a bunch online who love to argue this or that about driving games. How many of these people are professional racers? Not gamers, but racers?
I felt I had to say something about this a few times now and then I will go away and folks can argue to their hearts content. For me never thought I would ever game online, but for me racing real humans trumps ai any day. I don’t care if they use a controller joystick keyboard mouse whatever at all. I don’t use controller with GT Sport but people who are faster than me do which is great. GT Sport has a huge player base so there’s always someone to race which is great.
What I am realizing as I am writing this is that it’s pointless to swim upstream with advocates of lesser used games free to wordsmith against other games ad infinitude whether they even have a driving license in real life or not, much less if they have ever raced on track in cars or even fast 2 cycle karts. Plus there’s so much shilling...I am. Not implying you do that but it’s so obvious there’s many out there which makes reading about games even more pointless. It’s a fifty buck game just buy it and see for yourself.
Effectively this post is a hard drive dump of sorts for me.
I’m sick and tired of reading comments about video games at this point, so maybe time not to read forum about it anymore.
Maybe there’s an f1 game forum out there where I can learn about how poor the games physics are from people with firsthand experience driving f1.
My final thought is think for yourself.
I am not going to post much on this site anymore except for game or real race recounts because I did not come here to argue about nonsense. I came here for learning more about games since I hadn’t playe a race game since ridge racer.
My personal experience online in GT Sport in game has revealed a great community. I’ve almost always been s usually 99. I’ve been punted and had people wait and apologize and I have done the same.
My experience reading about certain other sects of gamers does not make me want to meet any of them. These people make some awful petty posts about what they view as the enemy...other games. I guess they are afraid they will not have anyone to play, plus there seems to be a kind of self worth gained by running down other games.
I’m not getting involved with people anymore about this game that game ffband physics. 99.9% have no idea what they are talking about relative to anything but more games. Relate it all to reqlity, not more games.
This is a simulator. It is used irl.

You have to just play the games and decide for yourself what’s best.
Tbh I like pretty much all Motorsport games I have played so far, just for different reasons.

 

[Lord Protector]

What I find weird is that no other EMEA finalists really post about this?... @mclarenLB ? @mthomas_95 ? @ZokyCRO and others?

Do you guys not care about this or maybe you like it? I’m just curious what you guys think.

 

[bmxmitch]

Pretty much my routine right now

I log in, check the races, do some training laps, see that I'm 4sec of the Top10 (usually it was 2secs), close sport mode again, do one league race, reach the daily milestone, get another swift, log off.

 

[mclarenLB]

What I find weird is that no other EMEA finalists really post about this?... @mclarenLB ? @mthomas_95 ? @ZokyCRO and others?

Do you guys not care about this or maybe you like it? I’m just curious what you guys think.

I'm not an EMEA finalist, only a World Finalist

All joking aside, its not something that bothers me honestly, I've been playing this as my only sim-racing game for about a year now so I think I've fully adapted to it. This game really rewards being very smooth on throttle input.

 

[Lord Protector]

I'm not an EMEA finalist, only a World Finalist

All joking aside, its not something that bothers me honestly, I've been playing this as my only sim-racing game for about a year now so I think I've fully adapted to it. This game really rewards being very smooth on throttle input.

You sure have! You’re very fast! the problem is, it shouldn’t be about being adapted to it, it should be more realistic, I think when you stop playing the game for a while, do something else, drive a normal car and after few weeks start up GTS it feels unnatural doesn’t it?

 

[kevlar_hybrid]

This game really rewards being very smooth on throttle input.

When I look at the throttle profile I can't see this as an accurate statement. I'm lucky if i can get 3 discreet steps between 50% and 100% on my throttle WITH MY HAND! I can get almost 1% increments up to 50% with my foot. It's also not witnessed by watching any of the quick laps or races but he top players. You'll see one of two behaviours depending on the corner:

1) Throttle off coast - 50% throttle feather - full throttle.
2) Throttle off coast - full throttle.

You can also watch the line they're chossing, as I said, wider later in, squared off and floored on exit. Not smooth trail braking in and feeding progressively more throttle as steering comes off out. <- This is the bit I miss in the game at present.

 

[mclarenLB]

I think when you stop playing the game for a while, do something else, drive a normal car and after few weeks start up GTS it feels unnatural doesn’t it?

I dunno, I'm a plebeian without a drivers license I wouldn't know, but it has gotten to the point where it feels pretty natural to me, I have a good idea of when the tyres will slip before it happens.

When I look at the throttle profile I can't see this as an accurate statement. I'm lucky if i can get 3 discreet steps between 50% and 100% on my throttle WITH MY HAND! I can get almost 1% increments up to 50% with my foot. It's also not witnessed by watching any of the quick laps or races but he top players. You'll see one of two behaviours depending on the corner:

1) Throttle off coast - 50% throttle feather - full throttle.
2) Throttle off coast - full throttle.

You can also watch the line they're chossing, as I said, wider later in, squared off and floored on exit. Not smooth trail braking in and feeding progressively more throttle as steering comes off out. <- This is the bit I miss in the game at present.

If you watch @TRL LIGHTNING, he's basically the fastest there is and drives insanely smooth and progressively on the throttle, he barely lets the tyres slip.

I hit a few #1 times myself in the past as well, all of them I was very progressive on throttle input.