how to correct oversteer in GT5P Physics

[acwebpage]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas). But when i do this in GT5P, it makes my car oversteer even more, and then spin out.

also from my research, to correct understeer, you are supposed to step on the breaks, but in GT5P, if i step on the gas, the understeer is corrected.

why is GT5P acting in the opposite manner to real world car physics?
anyone find this same problem?

 

[SjefGielen]

Are you using standard or professional physic settings, since I switched to professional it seems to be more spot on to me. But than again I hardly ever oversteer or understeer my own car, it's simply to expensive

 

[Motominded]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas). But when i do this in GT5P, it makes my car oversteer even more, and then spin out.

also from my research, to correct understeer, you are supposed to step on the breaks, but in GT5P, if i step on the gas, the understeer is corrected.

why is GT5P acting in the opposite manner to real world car physics?
anyone find this same problem?

Not everything you said about "real world" physics is accurate. Every car in the world acts different.

Alot of cars will understeer if you press on the brakes because you are over loading the front tires.

to add to that....this is something you can only learn with practice.

Are you on a G25 or a psx controler?

 

[JM1681]

First off, what kind of car are you driving?

In general, you correct oversteer by countersteering (Not necessarily opposite lock) and modulating the throttle as the car instructs you too. But, if you've pitched it to hard, there is not much you're going to be able to do to save it. Braking (Provided you don't lock'em up) might be the best bet to avoid crashing, and once past the point-of-no-return, more gas will just toss it faster.

To correct understeer, you're not necessarily supposed to mash the brakes. Your looking for the fastest, smoothest, and most gentle way possible to get weight on the front tires to give them more grip. If that means backing off the throttle, downshifting, or feathering the brakes is dependent on how much correction is required.

 

[Sturdy]

Trying to think of a simple way to describe it. I can maybe help with the 'applying the gas' side of things.

Whichever wheels are driven, applying more power is going to make that end of the car move the opposite direction to where you want to turn.

E.g.

You're turning left.

FWD + More power, the front of the car goes to the right -> Understeer
RWD + More power, the back of the car goes to the right -> Oversteer

If you're oversteering, the only time where stamping hard on the accelerator will save you is in FWD of 4WD cars where it will cause the car to understeer, thus correcting it for you.

Normally to correct oversteer you steer into it, a bit of power may help get weight to the back and make the tyres grip, but lots will just prolong / worsen the oversteer (or improve the oversteer if you're a drifter )

Really, if you're understeering, you've come in too fast, and you're going to have to slow down to get around it, or you're giving the front wheels too much power whilst still steering.

 

[Scaff]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas). But when i do this in GT5P, it makes my car oversteer even more, and then spin out.

To correct oversteer you should apply the required amount of opposite lock and then use the throttle to balance the car and gently apply more throttle to straighten out.

Simply stepping on the throttle is not going to do any good at all.

also from my research, to correct understeer, you are supposed to step on the breaks, but in GT5P, if i step on the gas, the understeer is corrected.

That sort of advise can end up killing people, the piece you read can never of heard of lift off over steer, coming straight off the throttle and stepping on the brakes will throw a huge amount of weight forward and unsettle rear end. In a lot of cars this can result in oversteer, it is in fact a well known method of forcing a FWD car to oversteer. Its poor advise like that which ended up putting so many Pug 205 GTi's backwards into tree.

The correct way to correct understeer is to reduce the throttle (not lift off and not brake) and to reduce the steering angle (so steer less). These actions allow the overused front tyres to get some grip back and start to steer correctly without upsetting the cars balance.

why is GT5P acting in the opposite manner to real world car physics?
anyone find this same problem?

Its not, GT5 is reacting as it should do, simply put the advise you have been reading is over-simplistic at best and plain wrong at worse.

 

[BreakerOhio]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas). But when i do this in GT5P, it makes my car oversteer even more, and then spin out.

also from my research, to correct understeer, you are supposed to step on the breaks, but in GT5P, if i step on the gas, the understeer is corrected.

why is GT5P acting in the opposite manner to real world car physics?
anyone find this same problem?

I don't find the same problem you are stating. The concept is correct, but it takes some finesse and timing to get it.

If you read instructions that describe how to best shoot free throws...do you think just because you have that knowledge you will be able to do it too?

It takes practice.

What experience do you have to real world car physics?

The problem in descriptions written on how to correct oversteer is they are general ideas on what you do. You do countersteer, and you do gas. But if you apply this incorrectly ...YES you can provoke it more (to get more angle for drifting). There is a balance point, kind of like balancing or snowboarding. There are so many variables involved that there isn't just one solid solution to correct an oversteer, but the concept of countersteering is the right idea, just how quickly or subtle you should do it depends on the degree of oversteer you are experiencing.

As much as Shaq is aware of what he is suppose to do to improve his freethrows in the NBA, he still struggles at it. Similar situation with what you are describing. Don't expect there to be some majic one solution that garauntees oversteer control to be perfect in Gran Turismo all the time. If that were possible, it would be unrealistic, and then it wouldn't be challenging.

 

[Rocket Punch]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas).

My advice:

1) Accelerator is not an on/off switch
2) Believe 1/2 of what you read on the internet, unless you confirm it with other more legit documentations. (like a good book)
3) buy a good book about driving
4) Read it.

Try to learn about the "why" and not just the "how". If you understand the principle, the answer will come to you and it will make sense to you.

Have fun.

 

[Jump_Ace]

The answer is simple, steer less 💡

Jerome

 

[GT4 genius]

In relation to the overdersteer instead of worring about fish-tailing out of a corner at all you could try and lenghten the gear ratios (increase the maximum speed of that gear) in 1st and 2nd, maybe even 3rd, gear. I find this very effective, it does cost you some acceleration, but you would lose far more time spinning out or scrubbing off speed drifting around a corner. However it doesnt cure the problem completely you still have to be delicate with the trottle driving out of corners, and it is least effective with very powerful cars.

 

[Scaff]

My advice:

1) Accelerator is not an on/off switch
2) Believe 1/2 of what you read on the internet, unless you confirm it with other more legit documentations. (like a good book)
3) buy a good book about driving
4) Read it.

Try to learn about the "why" and not just the "how". If you understand the principle, the answer will come to you and it will make sense to you.

Have fun.

This one

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602262/?tag=gtplanet-20


Best book on racing and driving I have read (and I have read a lot), highly recommended.

Scaff

 

[GT]

just ordered it scaff, lets see if its as good as you say!

 

[JM1681]

^ It is

 

[Scaff]

just ordered it scaff, lets see if its as good as you say!

I seriously doubt you will be disappointed, every aspect of driving is covered in huge detail and it also have loads of comments/hints/anecdotes from the guys who run the racing school.

Regards

Scaff

 

[deadlyz33]

Slow down ya hooligan!

 

[Duratec]

Try to learn about the "why" and not just the "how". If you understand the principle, the answer will come to you and it will make sense to you.

Spot on RP, one persons settings may not suit another due to different driving styles, having some understanding of the different settings and there effects will help you refine them to your own driving style, not to mention being far more rewarding than just copying a bunch of settings someone else posted, not that that's a bad thing you just won't learn much from it.

 

[GT]

I don't think I will be dissappointed, in fact I am really looking forward to reading it So thanks scaff!

 

[deadlyz33]

lol @ "stepping on the accelerator" to correct oversteer.

 

[GT]

 

[CFar]

Depends on the car as said previously. AWD cars like the STi like to have a lot of gas when the rear end breaks away from lift off throttle oversteer. Too much though and you risk snap oversteer in the other direction, or a continuation of the already occurring oversteer. RWD cars are similar to AWD in the application on most circumstances, however you need to be more sensitive with the throttle. Its best to get a good idea of where the limit is and correct it once you feel it happening. Wait too long and youre going to end up in the grass.

Understeer usually does good with a lift of the gas. Placing more weight on the front tires that dont have any grip. Also, difficult to do in the sim, but in real life one technique to stop understeer is to "saw" the wheel, or move the wheel back and forth a bit. Like I said though, the steering on the sim is somewhat slower if youre using the d pad like I do.

 

[un_peacekeeper]

I seriously doubt you will be disappointed, every aspect of driving is covered in huge detail and it also have loads of comments/hints/anecdotes from the guys who run the racing school.

Regards

Scaff

hmm, despite having no interest in reading (kind of under a heavy course load here - textbooks are killing me) and not NEEDING to read it, i might pick this one up! I like cars and racing to pass on this. Thanks for the heads-up on this, Scaff.

Oh, and someone gave me this one (http://www.amazon.ca/dp/0760305188/?tag=gtplanetca-20) as a gift, but i have never had a chance to finish it. Is it any good?

 

[(OO\SKYLINE/OO)]

from researching the internet, most sites instruct the proper way to correct an oversteer is to opposite lock and step on the accelerator(gas). But when i do this in GT5P, it makes my car oversteer even more, and then spin out.

I've never ever experienced any of that what you said in the GT5 Prologue. What kind of difficulty are you playing on? Professional or Standard mode? Do you have your Stability Management Off or On and how's your Traction Control set to and not to forget is it Rear Wheel Drive car you drive or is it All Wheel Drive and what's the tire level??

The way you counter oversteer is to opposite the steering but it all depends on the speed and how sharp the corner is plus how much horsepower/torque the car produces. To counter oversteer in a low to mid speed corner while you opposite the steering is that you do NOT step on the acceleration too hard or else you're gonna oversteer even more and worst of all turn your car to 180 degrees. I guess you've missunderstood and steped on the acceleration TOO HARD and that's maybe the reasion you've oversteered insted of counter oversteer in the GT5 Prologue.

Secondly every manufactor car acts differently in terms of performance and ballance wether it is mid or front engine cars or all wheel drive or rear wheel drive or front wheel drive cars, some car oversteer and understeer more then other and tires is a huge factor as well but if we're gonna to generlize cars a bit the traditional is that all wheel drive cars "ESPECIALLY front wheel drive cars" have a tendency to understeer more while rear wheel drive cars have a tendency to overstreer more.

With understeer it's easier to find the cornering limit and overall alot more safer but oversteer is more dangrious and unpredictable.

also from my research, to correct understeer, you are supposed to step on the breaks, but in GT5P, if i step on the gas, the understeer is corrected.

Dude I've never experienced that what you just said while playing the GT5 Prologue. What kind of car is it you're driving and what diffeculties I have to ask again?? Is it All Wheel Drive or Rear Wheel Drive or Front Wheel Drive car??? If I drive Front Wheel Drive car and pushes it too hard into a corner I understeer like a mother fcuker and if I step on the gass even more I'd mother fcuker understeer even harder. If you're driving a Rear Wheel Drive car in a low to mid speed corner and experienced understeer and if you pushes too hard on the gass for example in a Ford GT that has tons of Torque you'll oversteer like a yo yo mother fcuker.

Something you do personally must be the falls or maybe it's the diffeculty setup of the game you've set to.. I'm 100% sure it's NOT the physics of the game that is wrong with coz I've NEVER experience any of what you said in the GT5 Prologue.

 

[Rocket Punch]

This one

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602262/?tag=gtplanet-20


Best book on racing and driving I have read (and I have read a lot), highly recommended.

Scaff

Thats the standard issue driving enthusiast must have 👍 That is the "HOW" book. trust me, this will be the best $20 you will ever spent.

The other one I STRONGLY recommend is Milliken's "Race Car Vehicle Dynamics". This is the "WHY" book and is bar none the bible in vehicle dynamics, publish by SAE International and is used as a text book for automotive engineers. 👍

 

[acwebpage]

Thanks guys for all your suggestions, i am taking it all in and practicing. very surprised that i got so many responces in just one day! we really got a great community here.

question: what does "steer into it" mean? from the sentence "Normally to correct oversteer you steer into it".

Trying to think of a simple way to describe it. I can maybe help with the 'applying the gas' side of things.

Whichever wheels are driven, applying more power is going to make that end of the car move the opposite direction to where you want to turn.

E.g.

You're turning left.

FWD + More power, the front of the car goes to the right -> Understeer
RWD + More power, the back of the car goes to the right -> Oversteer

If you're oversteering, the only time where stamping hard on the accelerator will save you is in FWD of 4WD cars where it will cause the car to understeer, thus correcting it for you.

Normally to correct oversteer you steer into it, a bit of power may help get weight to the back and make the tyres grip, but lots will just prolong / worsen the oversteer (or improve the oversteer if you're a drifter )

Really, if you're understeering, you've come in too fast, and you're going to have to slow down to get around it, or you're giving the front wheels too much power whilst still steering.

 

[acwebpage]

sounds like a great book, i was looking it up on the net and i found that you can also buy a DVD called "Going faster" by Skip Barber. Do you know if the DVD is any good? i'd rather watch a dvd than read a book if they are just as good.

This one

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0837602262/?tag=gtplanet-20


Best book on racing and driving I have read (and I have read a lot), highly recommended.

Scaff

 

[acwebpage]

I am using a G25. I want to set up the car and the race as realistically as possible, so in specifics this is what i am trying to do:
g25 wheel,
bmw m3 coupe,
stability management off,
traction off,
ABS = ? what is the setting of a real bmw m3 for abs?
Professional setting.
active steering off,
power steering on,
tires = s3.

are the above settings exactly what a real m3 is like?
knowing that a m3 is rear wheel drive and has very powerful torque, what is the best way to control this car in corners, and how to control it if it over or under steers? on a track like suzuka.

Not everything you said about "real world" physics is accurate. Every car in the world acts different.

Alot of cars will understeer if you press on the brakes because you are over loading the front tires.

to add to that....this is something you can only learn with practice.

Are you on a G25 or a psx controler?

 

[darkangeldc5]

real M3 has abs, DSC enabled by default (can be turn off or partially turn off in CSL or 04+ ZCP)

if you talk about Stock M3 suspension E46, it handling is like under under under ---> over.

This kind of setting makes people feel very stable/comfortable below the limit, but once you pass the limit, you can get some nasty oversteer.

Never driven the new M3 so can't comment on that.

Best way to drive a car on the track is to not under or over.

 

[Rocket Punch]

sounds like a great book, i was looking it up on the net and i found that you can also buy a DVD called "Going faster" by Skip Barber. Do you know if the DVD is any good? i'd rather watch a dvd than read a book if they are just as good.

IMO, I would get the book.

I don't own the DVD but I don't think the DVD will ever cover everything in the book unless it is like 6 hours long. As a reference, being able to flip through the book is much easier than searching in a DVD.

Have fun.

 

[Speed Drifter]

What really surprised me in GT5 was how easily cars will oversteer.
BMW Concept 1 with S2 tires will oversteer if you give it more than about 10% throttle in a corner, is this realistic?

Also when comparing N1 and R3 tires for example they feel almost the same, except for different levels of grip (N1 tires having worse rear tire versus front tire grip balance than R3's). Shouldn't R3 tires have quicker transient between grip and.. loss of grip as well?

 

[Vaxen]

question: what does "steer into it" mean? from the sentence "Normally to correct oversteer you steer into it".

Front wheels must be set to match the current direction of travel rather than the orientation of the car. When you experience oversteer, the back-end comes around and so you counter-steer to realign the front wheels with the current direction of travel. "Steer into it" refers to this alignment process.