How turning off all aids made me a better, faster driver.

  • Thread starter Sarkazmo
  • 203 comments
  • 20,462 views
I will never rid myself of all aids. Pun intended and not intended all at once. Take it how you will. I'll tell you why: Some specific cars use TCS, ASM, and ABS in real life. I might be flamed for this but its true and some have stated it with similar results. The latter of the OP's statement rings true. This is my game and I'll use anything that makes me faster. SRF doesn't really make me faster. I think that's because I haven't figured out slip angle.
 
ABS 1 is on, but that's gonna be on forever unless a wheel forms out of the air.
Suggested gear is on, but I can work without that. I don't even use the gear it tells me to half the time.
 
Dear OP,

Slow in fast out has been a staple technique for a long time for setting fast lap times (because you carry the extra speed for longer). Thats the only reason your going faster with ABS 0, because its forcing you to do this.

For people that already did this with abs on, setting ABS to off means you will just go slower. ABS allows you to brake as hard and as little as possible, which is ideal. DO you really want to learn all the cars and tracks and tunes braking points? And do you trust yourself to brake the right amount always in a video game ?

So I would recommend you go back to ABS on after you learn how to drive.
 
I am a GT driver since day 1 as well .. I still use some aids for new circuits ... but when i know the lay-out i turn them off too and sometimes gradually ...

Although still got my ABS on 1 ... I think you now pushed me to try to switch that one off too ... thanks!

Cheers Mate!
 
Last edited:
Boone
I'll tell you why: Some specific cars use TCS, ASM, and ABS in real life.
Click to expand...

True. And in some modern cars these systems cannot be turned off!

For me turning off the electronic aids is nice. But turning off the visual aids (like driving line) is much more important. I dont want to see anything on the monitor except the cockpit. Unfortunately I have to turn some indicators on again for endurance races so I know the condition of my tyres and my fuel.

Also unfortunately you cannot turn off one visual aid: The hands go off the wheel when the game thinks you have to change gears. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.
 
First of all let me say excellent thread OP! This is exactly the kind of topic I like to see on these forums, not the usual bash PD/ GT hating and complaints (not that people aren't entitled to it, but really we should have a special subform for that instead of having it littered all over the place). I am sure there are many on here that would look at this as a 'no-duh' topic, but there are people on here of all kinds of driving skills and experience that could really benefit from this type of discussion.

I have much I would like to share myself about my similar experiences to yours with getting rid of driving aids through the series, but unfortunately I don't have the time right now. :guilty:

I will post a little later.

👍
 
Ran forza without any aids and got satisfactory times doing so, just wish turning off ALL aids would do the same with GT, need to use anti-skid AND abs 1 or I'm struggling to get anywhere near decent times (talking about seasonals here), I do run career mode with everything off INCLUDING the braking line which hinders more than helps, its no where near an exact braking point.
 
In the latest time on GT5 when i do fun hotlaps to upload replays on youtube, i just used only ABS: 1 as driving assist and lower indicators (tachimeter, gear indicator, tires temperature, ecc) were disabled, only map & time were up and just for a fast-look on how i'm going... With DS3 less the last one on preparation for GT6 comeout...

Now in GT6 i'm driving with only ABS: 1 but all HUD visible, but just because I want to fully understand the physic before go foward and disable it... Soon i'll try to start do hotlaps without lower HUD, when i'll finish to train... Now i have DFGT and could disable even the ABS, but pedals are just terrible, maybe even worst than DS3's R2 & L2, don't have any feel on my foot...

P.S. EDIT: even if the lower HUD is on, I don't watch at it, so it's more like officially have it disabled, I use it just few times on the early attempts to understand what's going on, but with the understanding of the physic, i will disable it at all...
 
xSNAKEx
Dear OP,

Slow in fast out has been a staple technique for a long time for setting fast lap times (because you carry the extra speed for longer). Thats the only reason your going faster with ABS 0, because its forcing you to do this.

For people that already did this with abs on, setting ABS to off means you will just go slower. ABS allows you to brake as hard and as little as possible, which is ideal. DO you really want to learn all the cars and tracks and tunes braking points? And do you trust yourself to brake the right amount always in a video game ?

So I would recommend you go back to ABS on after you learn how to drive.
Click to expand...

I knew the slow in, fast out technique long before this discussion and long before I started using ABS0. And if you read my post you'd have seen that I already stated that I was getting higher speeds on the straights with the slower in fast out of ABS0. The crutch is relying on ABS1 instead of my skill. If I'm relying on helpers then I'm not being punished for bad technique, the crutch hides it.

Yes I do want to learn all the cars and tracks. That's why I bought the game.

No, I don't intend to ever go back to ABS1 unless the car requires it. Why would I? I can stop in a shorter distance so when I'm really proficient with it I'll be able to drop my lap times even more through shorter braking zones. Only this time if I don't get it right I'll end up off track instead of having ABS holding my hand.

Sark
 
Sarkazmo
No, I don't intend to ever go back to ABS1 unless the car requires it. Why would I? I can stop in a shorter distance so when I'm really proficient with it I'll be able to drop my lap times even more through shorter braking zones. Only this time if I don't get it right I'll end up off track instead of having ABS holding my hand.

Sark
Click to expand...


Why is it all the top times are done with abs 1 or more?

Why antiskid on and not off?
 
Forza doesn't have an indicator to tell you what gear to use next. I tried to use it in GT6, and the thing just threw me off and made me confused. So it didn't stay on for long.

Along with the same driving line as GT6, Forza has a braking line that you can't see...until the approximate time you need to brake. It can still throw you off, especially coming up to corners at high speed, but it's better than being on all the time. For some reason it's a little easier to ignore the direction the braking line goes.

The GT6 driving line not easy to ignore. I've actually repeated to myself "look at the track" inside my head on the first few laps of a track. That seems to help. If you think in terms of the track, and not the line, the track becomes more visible, and the line less so. I've become pretty good at ignoring the driving line on my test track. On some corners I just wait a certain amount of time after the driving line turns in to start my turn, so in that way I use it as a marker.

I like to change cars a lot. I've driven over 200 cars in my garage so far. With all the new tracks to me, that is a lot of braking markers to remember if I turn the driving line off. I want to be a better driver, but I also want to have fun. This isn't supposed to be work.

So for now, I try to ignore the incorrect driving line so I can use the braking line. Some sort of brake warning without a driving line would be nice to have. It doesn't have to be a braking line like Forza. It would be better if something like a red line appears across the road, perpendicular to the direction of travel, to mark the braking point.
 
Last edited:
Dusty1990
Why is it all the top times are done with abs 1 or more?

Why antiskid on and not off?
Click to expand...

Some people are faster with ABS on as they've always driven that way so they're always in their comfort zone. People tend to stick to what's working for them and that they're comfortable with rather than the opposite. SRF though is a magical aid that breaks the laws of physics to make you faster. Sure, everyone is faster with SRF on. It's the ultimate aid that does everything possible to make the car stick and go faster. I don't want to have that conversation here though. It's been beat to death.

This conversation is about what made me faster and a better driver. I can't answer that question with certainty in regards to others. Some will never be able to or want to drive with all aids off. And that's fine, I'm not judging them. That's not for me though. I want to rely on my ability to drive, not the assists, and for me that mind set does equate to lower lap times. Will this work for everyone? No. Would I be faster with SRF on? Almost definitely. Would it feel as rewarding to me or be a measure of my actual skill? No.

Sark
 
I use ABS 1 and the gear indicator (but "only" as a rough guide as to when I have to brake) and I will probably continue to do so. I wish I was like many others here seem to be, that want to learn each track and car in such detail that I knew the braking points but it all comes down to me being - I guess - kind of a casual gamer. I don't have the time to spend hours each day with GT6 but more like an hour 2-3 times a week. Also, I want to progress in the game fairly quickly. Hence I use those aids and I find them to help me out (I'm using DS3 by the way). At the same time I really want to be a "purist" and feel what the cars really feel like, in real life (or as close to that as the game can simulate).

What I really love with the game is when you get to the point where all tracks are open to you for free runs and you have the credits to buy each car you want. The career mode's races can be fun but often - for me - are mostly just something I have to get through (to win that car, to get more money etc etc).

I may have reached a point now in the game where I'm happy, having just finshed the International B section and won my Diablo and also bought the more "normal" Diablo (a car I absolutely love!). I now will probably focus on buying the cars I want (F40 next!) and drive them on the tracks I love - with ABS 1 and the gear indicator on. Still, to each their own..

Sorry for going a bit off topic and for the spelling errors i probably made. :)

Cheers!
 
Last edited:
Sarkazmo
Some people are faster with ABS on as they've always driven that way so they're always in their comfort zone. People tend to stick to what's working for them and that they're comfortable with rather than the opposite. SRF though is a magical aid that breaks the laws of physics to make you faster. Sure, everyone is faster with SRF on. It's the ultimate aid that does everything possible to make the car stick and go faster. I don't want to have that conversation here though. It's been beat to death.

This conversation is about what made me faster and a better driver. I can't answer that question with certainty in regards to others. Some will never be able to or want to drive with all aids off. And that's fine, I'm not judging them. That's not for me though. I want to rely on my ability to drive, not the assists, and for me that mind set does equate to lower lap times. Will this work for everyone? No. Would I be faster with SRF on? Almost definitely. Would it feel as rewarding to me or be a measure of my actual skill? No.

Sark
Click to expand...


Thats the point I was making, it is faster to drive with assists, its the reason the top guys use some of them, if it was slower they wouldn't.

I'd love to be quicker driving without any assists, I was faster with them ALL turned off playing Forza (even x and r1) but I simply cannot be playing Gt, that won't stop me trying though :D
 
JuiceMcGoose
The GT6 driving line not easy to ignore. I've actually repeated to myself "look at the track" inside my head on the first few laps of a track. That seems to help. If you think in terms of the track, and not the line, the track becomes more visible, and the line less so. I've become pretty good at ignoring the driving line on my test track. On some corners I just wait a certain amount of time after the driving line turns in to start my turn, so in that way I use it as a marker.

I like to change cars a lot. I've driven over 200 cars in my garage so far. With all the new tracks to me, that is a lot of braking markers to remember if I turn the driving line off. I want to be a better driver, but I also want to have fun. This isn't supposed to be work.

So for now, I try to ignore the incorrect driving line so I can use the braking line.
Click to expand...

Try it for a week. Just turn it off and drive as you normally would and don't give into the temptation to turn it back on. I know it's a lot to ask but I'm asking you to give it a shot, if for nothing else as more information for this thread and for others to evaluate. Give it an honest try then tell us how you feel about it. Would you do that for us? Actually, I present this request (see it as a challenge if that will get you to try it) to all of you. Turn off the driving line for one week but play the game as you normally would in every other respect.

Sark
 
Driving line was probably the first setting I changed to off 15 years ago, closely followed by background music, though the driving line would occasionally return through the years for use in certain, especially challenging, licence tests.

I am still using ABS, and will continue to until I complete the transition to only using manual gearbox controls - however those are the only 'aids' I still choose to use. Driving without TCS seems to be easier (and of more noticable benefit) in GT6 than it did in 5, perhaps due to the suspension and, in particular, tyre models.
 
Last edited:
As I told before, i still use ABS 1 because in GT5 i felt it was nearly impossible to not lock up tires without it, but for GT6 i know it has been "fixed" or "adjusted"...
My question now is: with the bad feel that DFGT's pedals give, is it possible to drive without ABS or it's more like DS3 and it's better to stick with that on 1?
If yes, i'll give it a try. If no, i stay with ABS 1... Asking this because on Simraceway (PCsim) i'm able to not lock up tires most of the times after i practice with that car a bit, but with GT5 meh, it was just terrible...
 
JuiceMcGoose
I like to change cars a lot. I've driven over 200 cars in my garage so far. With all the new tracks to me, that is a lot of braking markers to remember if I turn the driving line off. I want to be a better driver, but I also want to have fun. This isn't supposed to be work.
Click to expand...

I think you'll find that braking points don't really change that much from one car to the next.
 
Sarkazmo
No, I don't intend to ever go back to ABS1 unless the car requires it. Why would I? I can stop in a shorter distance so when I'm really proficient with it I'll be able to drop my lap times even more through shorter braking zones. Only this time if I don't get it right I'll end up off track instead of having ABS holding my hand.

Sark
Click to expand...

I am not aware the car stops in a shorter distance with ABS off in gt6?
 
How many people use the gear indicator as a brake marker with no driving line? I can see that as being a way to go.

As for no driving line and remembering where to brake using markers on the side of the road...I've tried it more than once. Never made it stick for too long. That may have something to do with my personal make up. I'm not a purist. In life in general I don't necessarily do things because that is the way they are supposed to be done. I tend to decide for myself what is right and wrong.

On the other hand, I hate the driving line. So I'm not happy with what I'm doing now. Maybe it's time to try with no aids again.
 
Turning ABS off changes the feel of the game entirely. The thing i would suggest is adjusting the brake balance of each car. It makes it a lot easier to brake properly without constantly locking up the wheels.

But the change I've made that most substantially immerses me in the game is turning off the HUD entirely. It forces you to take note of the track and the car much more as you don't have any of the reference points provided by the HUD. Would highly recommend trying it.
 
Last edited:
xSNAKEx
I am not aware the car stops in a shorter distance with ABS off in gt6?
Click to expand...

It does. That's why race cars don't have abs on them. If you can control the breaking force and keep it near lock up with out getting them to lock, it will decelerate quicker.

And someone earlier said something about race brakes not being needed if you can lock up without them and he is 100% correct. Braking distance isn't dependant on how good the brakes are, but how much grip the tires have. And I think brake fade is in the game but it doesn't have any effect unless u are stopping from high speeds
 
Flaren89
As I told before, i still use ABS 1 because in GT5 i felt it was nearly impossible to not lock up tires without it, but for GT6 i know it has been "fixed" or "adjusted"...
My question now is: with the bad feel that DFGT's pedals give, is it possible to drive without ABS or it's more like DS3 and it's better to stick with that on 1?
If yes, i'll give it a try. If no, i stay with ABS 1... Asking this because on Simraceway (PCsim) i'm able to not lock up tires most of the times after i practice with that car a bit, but with GT5 meh, it was just terrible...
Click to expand...

I have a dfgt and using no abs on gt5 was like sadomasochistic torture. But I did get better because of it.
 
No they are banned because they are driver's aid.....on loose surface ABS probably works worse than locked brake as the friction generated by a locked tire is probably higher than the kinetic friction of a rolling tire. But on pavement, ABS calibrated for racing will absolutely be beneficial....yes a fast human will still be fast, but ABS takes the consistency out.

GT3 cars are designed to be raced by Pros and Amateurs, so they allow aids like that to help the latter to perform at the former's level more easily...

Same reason why traction control tend to be banned also. The way its implemented in GT is pretty piss poor and robs you of power in most cases...but plenty of race cars will use TC if its allowed...

In GT I always drive what the real car does. If it uses ABS I will leave it at 1, if it doesn't I turn it off....
 
SKD420
It does. That's why race cars don't have abs on them. If you can control the breaking force and keep it near lock up with out getting them to lock, it will decelerate quicker.

And someone earlier said something about race brakes not being needed if you can lock up without them and he is 100% correct. Braking distance isn't dependant on how good the brakes are, but how much grip the tires have. And I think brake fade is in the game but it doesn't have any effect unless u are stopping from high speeds
Click to expand...

Has anyone made a video proving this? For example where for example stopping from 400kph in a veyron takes less distance with ABS to off vs ABS 1?

I will give that a go.
 

Latest Posts

Back