I feel GT6 will be a disappointment.

[Tenacious D]

Jeez, you do sound like I made fun of a holy figure, deeply entwined with your religious believes. Tell you something, what you're displaying here is... Well, it's strange, to say the least. Whether Yamauchi is devoted to the game or not, it doesn't change a thing about the product. That's the first issue I have with this. Just because he tries hard doesn't mean he's creating a great game. I can't play passion, I can't even see or here it. And I certainly can't feel GT oozing with a passion for cars if there's a tiered system in place - and a rather bad car list in place as well. In fact, I'd say that GT5 felt very sterile and completely devoid of passion. If that is what Kazunoris "hard work" amounts to, I'd say that the man has to learn to work smart, not work hard.

Frankly, it's fine to say you don't get any special connection to GT5 or Gran Turismo in general. But you insist that because you don't, that those of us who do are fooling ourselves into believing that the cake is there when it's not. And that's just not reasonable. You can't say that people are completely wrongheaded and deluded for experiencing something you don't. You can't state that because you don't like the car list in GT5, we're sheeple or something if we do. And this is what you and critics of Gran Turismo, Polyphony and Kazunori do, and this is the issue I have with you.

Let me ask you this: Do you believe what you're being spoon-fed about your politicians as well? You probably don't. And rightfully so. You'd probably also question similar claims by other people. You'd question similar claims if they were made by Dan Greenawalt, I bet, and you'd question similar claims if they were made by Steve Balmer and you'd probably question similar claims if they were made by Larry Probst.

The bold part, I'm kind of unsure what you mean. If you mean the malarkey the news media has force fed us over the past four-plus years about Obama being some messianic savior, no, I knew all along that he would be a clumsy oaf of a politician, a liar and something of a dictator. Well, and that the democrat party is trying their hardest to save us from ourselves, that too. But otherwise, I'm not sure what you think I'm being "spoon fed."

But what I know about Kazunori Yamauchi and Polyphony, I rely on from those who get inside his world, and on rare instances, those who get to know him personally:

I make a point to comment that Yamauchi is the typical genius who is at his own lofty level. When you talk to him you realize it. In the midst of a normal conversation with the teacher there are certain details that suggest that he knows what he is talking about; you are absolutely convinced of this and that no one can say differently on the subject. Furthermore, he doesn't push any unfounded opinions, he won't lead you on or bluff; you feel fully convinced that he speaks with authority, leaving you to listen in silence. He is so respected by the Japanese industry that no one has anything negative to say about him. Not a bad word in the press either. And you know this is not the fear of offending some celebrity or prima donna. It represents the respect he has earned during the last decade as one of the pillars of Japan's video game world.

Now, for the rest...

Oh, and one more thing. Him having an army of devoted followers doesn't make the game great, either. In fact, I'd say that it's that group of people that's keeping the series from becoming better (which is what I am hoping for, by the way). Because PD doesn't have to try to get their sales up, they don't have to deliver a product that caters to the audience. They can do whatever they please and be sure that it'll still sell millions. They could release GT5 as it is, add a few premium models and change nothing at all, then claim that the physics have been overhauled as well as the sounds - even though neither was actually done - and half of these diehard GT fans would claim that PD did a marvellous job with GT6.

If that wasn't the case, I'd bet that GT5 wouldn't have released with PS2 cars. I honestly believe that no other developer would've dared to do that, other than PD who can rely on that army of people who are going to buy the game regardless of its quality. Same with the car sounds. Or the sub-par damage model. Things that really, really are a standard nowadays. But, thankfully, they can do their thing (however devoted Kazunori may actually be to that) and not give a damn about anything else. How's that good, I ask you? How's that good for us? For you? Does it make your game better, does it make you feel better while playing it because you believe that Kazunori slept in his office because he had to get stuff done?

In a word, yes, especially versus a game made by a developer that seems devoted to the almighty dollar. I'll quote from that interview again:

Speaking of which, from the outside it seems that Gran Turismo is your life, and you treat and speak of it as your own son. Is that so?

Very true, and if we continue to develop games in the series, it is because we have fun doing it. And yes, if we look back we've lost things along the way because of our dedication to these games, but was it worth it? Sure. (and later) The most important people in my life and close work are of course the employees of Polyphony. We are like a family.

Your great love of cars is well known. Is that the main reason you created and developed Gran Turismo, a game that is always seeking perfection in the simulation?

Yes, one reason is of course my love of driving. I think driving is a wonderful experience and I wish to share it. But another reason is that I want users to spend a good time playing, essentially.

Plus, you assertion that any developer could produce a game with zero improvements and get away with it is just ludicrous. Just look at the arguments in this board. A lot of us are very passionate about Gran Turismo, but just as passionate about what we want to see it evolve into. And that includes me. That sure as heck doesn't sound like a bunch of complacent fanfolk with which PD can pass off whatever they want to. And then of course are your completely incorrect assertions: "sound is completely bad, they didn't even try to provide a damage model, yadda yadda..." And on those PS2 models, you're sure talking to the wrong guy here, because I gave them a chance and I love them. Most of my cars are Standard. And you can accuse me of being one of those blind devoted sheep all you want. But to that I say, having and racing a car is sure a hell of a lot better than not having and racing a car. Am I right? You can feel free to lambast those cars in GT6 too, but I probably won't care then either. I want those cars, and if I didn't, I wouldn't be so adamant about it. If that makes me a fool and a tool, oh well.

I'm going to reiterate amar212's words again, because it seems they completely escape you, or that anyone could say this with any assurance:

In my personal view all this negativity towards PD/GT5 is just matter of unfulfilled personal expectations.

If you look any other racing game outthere and compare it with GT5, you will find many areas where they also need major improvements. And vice-versa.

It all comes down back to this:
Many games maybe have something what Gran Turismo series does not, but no other game have what Gran Turismo series has.

And what is that "something" I can't elaborate in one forum post, but that "something" makes every single GT game in last 14 years being better than any other racing game outthere for me personally.

Well, one more thing because you posted again.

Thing is, I feel that a lot of people would buy GT6 regardless of how good or bad it was. They simply wouldn't care. They wouldn't judge it (somewhat) objectively. They're not buying it based on how good it is as a product. As such, PD doesn't even have to try to make the game the best it could be.

Ya know, you say things like that, while the GT6 demo is staring you right in the face with work being done on the tire model in cooperation with Yokohama, and suspension modeling data partner KW Suspensions. They do serious work on the major aspects of car dynamics, and it means nothing to you. I just don't get you, so maybe I'll leave it at this.

 

[Luminis]

Sigh...

In a word, yes, especially versus a game made by a developer that seems devoted to the almighty dollar. I'll quote from that interview again:

See, you say yourself that you're giving GT bonus points because of who it was made by. That's actually all I was trying to get across. I don't know whether Kazunori is a nice guy and I've learned to take stuff like that with a grain of salt (call me a negative Nancy, if you want to), but I frankly don't care. I don't feel like giving bonus points to GT because of Kazunori, to Forza because of Greenawalt or to Dark Souls because of Miyazaki.

If you want to, fine. Just don't expect me to give you a thumbs up for it.

Ya know, you say things like that, while the GT6 demo is staring you right in the face with work being done on the tire model in cooperation with Yokohama, and suspension modeling data partner KW Suspensions. They do serious work on the major aspects of car dynamics, and it means nothing to you. I just don't get you, so maybe I'll leave it at this.

Just to clear things up: I said that people would still buy it even if there were no improvements. That's not to say that there are not going to be any improvements in GT6. There's a difference. Claiming that PD doesn't have to try and claiming that PD doesn't try aren't the same thing, either.

/edit: My apologies if I, at one point, didn't phrase my text in a way that got that across.

 

[goukipau]

It will be the same as GT5, sound aren't improved, graphics aren't improved, nothing is really new! I was Always a GT fan, but due to the dissapointment of 5 and inclusion of car that go around corners with 400 kmh etc etc, im really done with this racegame. Gt6 is nothing really new, I just need to focus on other games now I guess.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Maybe not to the extent that some require but it is wrong to say that some of the things that people have repeatedly asked for, have not been worked on or addressed at all.

Three things for you:

AI
Engine Sounds
Damage Model

How much works has been done on those?

 

[MeanElf]

I don't know whether I'd call that passion. See, if I imagine someone who's passionate about cars and about making a great game about cars, I don't picture that person being content with atrocious engine sounds being in his games for more than a decade. That's just an example, of course... And I don't mean to say that Kazunori is a bad person or anything. I just don't see why he's considered to be so special, because I don't see anything in his games that would make him special in my eyes. Not any more, at least.

A quirky car list isn't what I would consider a sign of passion. In fact, looking at GT's car list, I think the contrary would be the case. A list that is bolstered with near-duplicates like GT's (we don't have to argue that point, do we?) doesn't show a passion for cars or for driving. Not in my opinion. It seems more like a rather business-like approach. "How are we getting as many cars as possible into the game?" "Well, sacrificing the variety of the car list" That absolutely isn't what I imagine someone who's passionate about cars to say...

Okay I'm not going to argue that. You sound well informed on the series, but just in case, I'd like to remind why so many Skylines, RX-7 and MX5 versions etc are there in the first place. These and all of their versions represented are extremely important to the Japanese tuner crowd, which in turn leads back to that passion I mentioned.

Personally it doesn't bother me, as I can't tune for the life of me (mind you, the model is a bit skewed, apparently) but I applaud his rationale for including them. The game is hugely important in Japan and although such a thing as including so many tuning classics isn't my thing, I do appreciate it that Kazunori san has allowed that option for those who do live and breathe it. In the end, it has made me curious to at least try, so I have been collecting all of the variants to see for myself what differences are apparent. As a result I have learned more about it all and have no doubt that this will stand me in good stead after GT6 is out.

Regarding the rest, thank you for taking the time to explain. So okay, we won't agree on some of the areas but at least now I know more of the measure, and have an idea where you are coming from.

Three things for you:

AI
Engine Sounds
Damage Model

How much works has been done on those?

AI has changed in every version I have played - okay, only three full games and one prologue (but I'm sure you got that already) PD have tried different approaches out in each of these releases. Like I said earlier, it might not reflect the amount of change that certain people might want, but I do believe that PD are actively seeking to improve this.

GT5 sticks in peoples' mind because of the level of acquiescenece during and after being overtaken - it is quickly forgotten that collision detection has been improved in GT5 over GT5 and earlier models. The so called chase-the-rabbit scenario is something outside of that - it's a way of using the core AI under a controlled set of circumstances - it has been tweaked that way.

Something that has been missed - GT6 will have a hardcore mode:

...Taku addressed that, saying that tire wear in GT6′s “Hard Core” mode will allow the player to adjust wear rates and how they respond to abuse...

Full article

Now I know that's talking about tyre model, but even if I am stepping into the area of speculation now, I cannot see the hardcore mode being only for tyre model options but AI also - so change is coming.

Engine sounds - once more work has been done. Clearly it bothers me less than it bothers some but to deny that anything has been done is unreasonable. Also reasoning and debate has been entered into on Kazunori san's part with Jordan, so it's not as if the problem is being ignored. That the changes thusfar have not met with approval, isn't to say that improvements haven't been made. As an artist, I know many tricks to make a picture look more appealing, to fool the observer's eye - I chose not to use those though as I prefer technical excellence over shortcuts: so yes, I'm in that camp.

Damage model: well he's made it very clear that he doesn't consider this to be so important. Having said that, Kazunori san has said it will be looked into. Now mechanical damage, I'd be happier if it played a stronger role in future titles, that is the one that counts, after all.

So all in all, to imply that nothing has been done on these scores is inaccurate. PD seem to favour the slow but cautious route and they do know what they are talking about, so I trust them to address what can be changed.

It's not like they exist in a vacuum, they do take note. GT7 on the PS4 I imagine will see a lot more progress in a wider spread of areas, allowing them the technical freedom to expand far more than the PS3 could allow for.

 

[Luminis]

Regarding the rest, thank you for taking the time to explain. So okay, we won't agree on some of the areas but at least now I know more of the measure, and have an idea where you are coming from.

 

[MeanElf]

 

[Johnnypenso]

Okay I'm not going to argue that. You sound well informed on the series, but just in case, I'd like to remind why so many Skylines, RX-7 and MX5 versions etc are there in the first place. These and all of their versions represented are extremely important to the Japanese tuner crowd, which in turn leads back to that passion I mentioned.

Personally it doesn't bother me, as I can't tune for the life of me (mind you, the model is a bit skewed, apparently) but I applaud his rationale for including them. The game is hugely important in Japan and although such a thing as including so many tuning classics isn't my thing, I do appreciate it that Kazunori san has allowed that option for those who do live and breathe it. In the end, it has made me curious to at least try, so I have been collecting all of the variants to see for myself what differences are apparent. As a result I have learned more about it all and have no doubt that this will stand me in good stead after GT6 is out.

The sales of GT5 in Japan are relatively small compared to the rest of the world, especially the EU. If catering to enthusiasts was Kaz's real motivation, you'd see a lot more European and American specialty stuff than Japanese. I think his rationale is simply his personal preference and supporting the home country and has little to do with the true fanbase, of which the Japanese are a small minority.

 

[Luminis]

The sales of GT5 in Japan are relatively small compared to the rest of the world, especially the EU. If catering to enthusiasts was Kaz's real motivation, you'd see a lot more European and American specialty stuff than Japanese. I think his rationale is simply his personal preference and supporting the home country and has little to do with the true fanbase, of which the Japanese are a small minority.

Now that you mention it... I believe that less than 10% of Gran Turismo's sales are actually coming from Japan.

 

[mr_serious]

...
Lot's of good stuff clipped for brevity
...

A bit of a long-winded post, I know. But I thought it was important to explain that I'm not just someone hatin' on Kazunori and Gran Turismo.

It may have been long winded, but it is also well reasoned and perfectly explains my own position (and that of my friends, with whom I created my own nostalgia for GT)

GT does seem to have become a religion with some people. I too am voting with my wallet in the sincere hope that PD will return to creating a racing game to go with their physics.

 

[MeanElf]

The sales of GT5 in Japan are relatively small compared to the rest of the world, especially the EU. If catering to enthusiasts was Kaz's real motivation, you'd see a lot more European and American specialty stuff than Japanese. I think his rationale is simply his personal preference and supporting the home country and has little to do with the true fanbase, of which the Japanese are a small minority.

Quite possibly.

There is also the access and distance issue, well the former was more of a problem before GT5 - but the latter I suppose could be seen as swinging back around to personal preference as guiding rationale in the end.

I think they only send a team to scan cars now if they are in the area for an event or scanning a track. That is guess work on my part, from a bit of reading between the lines. I suppose we'll see if that's true with GT6 if there are any premium Ford or Holden V8s, after all, they did scan Bathurst.

 

[USARMYCOMBATVET]

Now that you mention it... I believe that less than 10% of Gran Turismo's sales are actually coming from Japan.

Are those sales adjusted for differences in population[volume--thanks Johnnypenso!]? I'd venture a guess that Japan's population was about one-third the size of the US and one-seventh of the whole of Europe. That has to account for something. Marketing gurus, help me out here. Am I close?

On topic: I am enjoying the GT Academy/ demo and will not be disappointed if GT6 turns out like this.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Now that you mention it... I believe that less than 10% of Gran Turismo's sales are actually coming from Japan.

I was pretty sure it was around that figure but I didn't want to post it because I was sure someone would follow up immediately with:

Proof please

Are those sales adjusted for differences in population? I'd venture a guess that Japan's population was about one-third the size of the US and one-seventh of the whole of Europe. That has to account for something. Marketing gurus, help me out here. Am I close?

On topic: I am enjoying the GT Academy/ demo and will not be disappointed if GT6 turns out like this.

I would think that sheer volume is what matters most.

 

[VolkswagenX]

AI has changed in every version I have played - okay, only three full games and one prologue (but I'm sure you got that already) PD have tried different approaches out in each of these releases. Like I said earlier, it might not reflect the amount of change that certain people might want, but I do believe that PD are actively seeking to improve this.

GT5 sticks in peoples' mind because of the level of acquiescenece during and after being overtaken - it is quickly forgotten that collision detection has been improved in GT5 over GT5 and earlier models. The so called chase-the-rabbit scenario is something outside of that - it's a way of using the core AI under a controlled set of circumstances - it has been tweaked that way.

It has changed but it never feels like they really did their best. It never feels like they use their imagination to try to make the game harder for people that like a challenge. people are competitive, the don't only like a challenge. Online is part of that but its also the reason some people like to hunt for trophies so you can show others that you did very good at completing the game.

I can understand why PD designed the AI to avoid making a collision, what I don' why they did it the way they did. It would not be a problem at all if the AI was pushing lap for lap. Everybody who is decent at racing games know the the AI in any racing game is easy but the AI in GT just seems to cruise around and when you get close to them they slow down even more

If only they would bring back the power and tire restrictions for A-spec PD would have solved a big part of the slow AI problem. Keep the bonus for entering races with lower pp then the limit fix the mid corner stops from the AI. A little slow might be oke but not what we have now.

 

[Luminis]

Are those sales adjusted for differences in population? I'd venture a guess that Japan's population was about one-third the size of the US and one-seventh of the whole of Europe. That has to account for something. Marketing gurus, help me out here. Am I close?

On topic: I am enjoying the GT Academy/ demo and will not be disappointed if GT6 turns out like this.

Well, it isn't adjusted. But, then again, adjusted figures would do you no good in this case. The question at hand would be "are the majority of the people who purchase Gran Turosmo Japanese?" Because, if they were, that would be a reason as to why the game focuses on Japanese cars. But, as it stands, out of GT5's 10,500,000 copies sold, only about 800,000 were sold in Japan.

It doesn't really matter whether that equals a higher percentage of Japan's population than the 2,600,000 copies are in relation to the North American population if we're to determine where the largest part of the audience is from. But, let's do the math. Japan's population is about 128,000,000. That means that 0.625% of the Japanese population purchased Gran Turismo 5. Population in the US is about 314,000,000. So, 0.828% of the population bought GT5. Still a higher percentage than Japan manages, so even if we were to look at sales figures per people, it would still not make sense to cater to Japanese tastes primarily.

And that's assuming that the Japanese audience actually wants a car list that's full of Miatas and Skylines and whatnot. I don't know Japanese culture well enough to know whether that's true or not. Personally, I'd say that this sounds more like an excuse to bolster the car list with near duplicates. It is, after all, far easier to create another four R34s if you've got a base model to slightly modify than to create five different cars instead. And looking at what the international audience seems to want, I'd assume that most people would be more happy with a balanced car list, not with one that contains mostly cars from their home country or home continent.

 

[MeanElf]

...I can understand why PD designed the AI to avoid making a collision, what I don' why they did it the way they did. It would not be a problem at all if the AI was pushing lap for lap. Everybody who is decent at racing games know the the AI in any racing game is easy but the AI in GT just seems to cruise around and when you get close to them they slow down even more

I know what you mean. I think the GT5 AI though was done that way to attract new players, same applies to the GT6 demo, which is why I'm hopeful for the new hardcore mode I mentioned earlier.

Also with the revamp of the game engine, I'm hopeful that things like AI needn't be written in stone as they were in GT5. So here's hoping, eh?

 

[Devedander]

Well, it isn't adjusted. But, then again, adjusted figures would do you no good in this case. The question at hand would be "are the majority of the people who purchase Gran Turosmo Japanese?" Because, if they were, that would be a reason as to why the game focuses on Japanese cars. But, as it stands, out of GT5's 10,500,000 copies sold, only about 800,000 were sold in Japan.

It doesn't really matter whether that equals a higher percentage of Japan's population than the 2,600,000 copies are in relation to the North American population if we're to determine where the largest part of the audience is from. But, let's do the math. Japan's population is about 128,000,000. That means that 0.625% of the Japanese population purchased Gran Turismo 5. Population in the US is about 314,000,000. So, 0.828% of the population bought GT5. Still a higher percentage than Japan manages, so even if we were to look at sales figures per people, it would still not make sense to cater to Japanese tastes primarily.

And that's assuming that the Japanese audience actually wants a car list that's full of Miatas and Skylines and whatnot. I don't know Japanese culture well enough to know whether that's true or not. Personally, I'd say that this sounds more like an excuse to bolster the car list with near duplicates. It is, after all, far easier to create another four R34s if you've got a base model to slightly modify than to create five different cars instead. And looking at what the international audience seems to want, I'd assume that most people would be more happy with a balanced car list, not with one that contains mostly cars from their home country or home continent.

To be fair I think Japanese culture may lead to favoring the Japanese market whether it's a volume leader or not.

That said I agree, probably easy to add 5 more skylines and honestly I am not sure it precludes adding the other cars. I could easily see it being that they have added as many cars as they have licenses for/time to scan but they have some extra hands that can't speed up that particular process but who can reskin some models and if that IS the case, then I am all for it.

I am not a fan of a gagillion skylines but IF they are not coming at any significant cost, then pad away...

I know what you mean. I think the GT5 AI though was done that way to attaract new players, same applies to the GT6 demo, which is why I'm hopeful for the new hardcore mode I mentioned earlier.

Also with the revamp of the game engine, I'm hopeful that things like AI needn't be written in stone as they were in GT5. So here's hoping, eh?

I think this is highly unlikely. I dont think AI is an easy thing to just tweak to that level and it risks breaking it pretty badly.

While I would love more agressive IA, I keep getting an eye twitch and thinking back to my many races against M Rossi.

 

[Johnnypenso]

...wall of text and stats....

Exactly. It's Kaz's personal preference to favour the Japanese market, there is no objective, logical reason for that. Don't get me wrong, I'd do the same thing if I were in his shoes although we're just a little short on Canadian made cars...lol But I'd definitely favour what I prefer. There would be at least 100 Porsche's and 50 Ruf's in JPRacing1...lol.

 

[Wolfe]

I'm convinced the padded car list goes back to Gran Turismo 3, when Polyphony were chastised for slashing the number of cars compared to Gran Turismo 2. With GT4, they compensated by filling the game with a massive, inflated list of cars, and they have yet to give those PS2-era assets up. I think PD don't want to get burned by that complaint again, as ridiculous as their solution may be.

 

[Tenacious D]

While I would love more agressive IA, I keep getting an eye twitch and thinking back to my many races against M Rossi.

Ohmygod, Rossi... what a tard. Though his whole posse isn't much better, really.

I have to echo what MeanElf posted. I know that Johnnypenso's little list is the core of everyone's Gran Turismo gripe list. But for two of them, I have to wonder what game they've been playing over the past two years. Those who insist that GT5 is the same old game as GT1 but with a thousand more Hoover Skylines are completely out to lunch.

Yes, I'm aware of the legacy AI code that still has the bots braking hard in turns, and that the more challenging AI in Arcade Mode isn't in A-Spec Mode, and I'm resigned to seeing a rabbit out front in about half the races driving at 101% of their potential. For some this is unacceptable, but I'm not those people. I've had lots of fun racing nothing but Arcade Mode races against these bots with most of my Standard cars for about a year straight. And I haven't been impressed with any game's bots. Forza's are rowdy brats. Ferrari Challenge's bots will move aside to let you pass just long enough for you to get beside them so they can swerve right back in their line and smash you off the road. GTR's bots slam into each other and grind through chicanes in a horrific mess. And most of the rest are pretty much boring cruise missiles as Gran Turismo has had through the first four games. So I get the feeling that many of these grumpy posters have been racing against other humans for so long, they only vaguely remember how good their game's bots behave.

Sounds could definitely be better on many cars, but all the grouchers are completely ignoring all the sound improvements PD has made in a number of cars over the course of the past two years. And sorry, but none of them sound like vacuum cleaners or pencil sharpeners. I guess there's a hidden section in the AUP that states you can make stuff up as long as it's about Gran Turismo...

Damage... yeah, that's no good. It's barely there at all in GT5, and because of that I turn it off. I do miss it when I come back from Forza with its very good damage model, and knowing that it won't be all that different in GT6 is kind of a bummer. But will that keep me from racing in GT6, and does that keep me from enjoying GT5? Oh hell no.

And believe me, the weird things in GT5 do bug me, like having to buy a car to turn into paint so I can paint a car the color I want because the Paint Shop has no paint of its own is just dumb. But even though the paint chips are returning, I don't think Kaz would be crazy enough to do the exact same thing again. In fact, we've complained about so much of GT5 that I expect a very different GT6. Lazy developers don't so things like work with tire makers and suspension companies and pay for their data to incorporate in their physics engine, or develop relationships with many companies in the automotive and racing world. And I take note of the fact that while other developers have people who talk about racing, one of them has a president who actually participates in racing.

And for those who accuse us fans of an almost religious devotion to this series and its creators, we can talk about the essence of Gran Turismo and all its aspects and how we don't get that from other racing games - and have at length. While other developers will pick the top five muscle cars, top five sports cars, top five super cars and top five race cars to highlight in demos, in Gran Turismo, they showcase cars like the lowly Suzuki Cappuccino. This is what separates Gran Turismo and Polyphony Digital from all the rest. These people love cars. But this is lost on many of you, so whatever, have a nice life and stuff.

 

[Zuku]

The people that had a problem with the 150 cars or so it was in GT3 I'd rather have that then 50 GT-R, 100 Skylines, 200, Miatas, 1 Mustang, 300 RX-7 god knows what else that's been duplicated to death.

There should be a limit of 10 cars of the same type to be honest.

It's also kind of funny GT3 A.I felt more balanced that may only be because you didn't have cars that overpowered like you did in GT4 and GT5.

 

[mister dog]

The people that had a problem with the 150 cars or so it was in GT3 I'd rather have that then 50 GT-R, 100 Skylines, 200, Miatas, 1 Mustang, 300 RX-7 god knows what else that's been duplicated to death.

There should be a limit of 10 cars of the same type to be honest.

It's also kind of funny GT3 A.I felt more balanced that may only be because you didn't have cars that overpowered like you did in GT4 and GT5.

There should be a limit of 3 cars of the same type for god's sake! Even 10 is ridiculous

I agree i rather have 3 to 500 diverse cars (classic to modern), and all of them being equally detailed, than a 1000+ list with the majority of them not being interesting, duplicates, or badly done (aka standards)...

The way T10 select which cars go into their game should serve as an example to PD.

 

[Tenacious D]

The way T10 select which cars go into their game should serve as an example to PD.

I like Forza's car list, but the only reason I do is because I also have Gran Turismo 5. They don't even have the Mazda 6, which is a staple of many medium range racing teams. So don't expect everyone to agree with this.

 

[C_Raccoon23]

I like Forza's car list, but the only reason I do is because I also have Gran Turismo 5. They don't even have the Mazda 6, which is a staple of many medium range racing teams. So don't expect everyone to agree with this.

And GT doesn't have the BMW M3 E30. I think one thing we can agree on is that both games are missing some great cars.

 

[Tenacious D]

I concur, but I do prefer having a game with 750 cars padded with 250 duplicates, than a game with 450 cars padded with 30 duplicates. Obviously I like the Standards, and not everyone agrees with that either.

 

[mister dog]

Well it's a matter of taste really, but i'll take iconic european cars like the M3 E30 above a Mazda anyday

 

[MeanElf]

Well, it isn't adjusted. But, then again, adjusted figures would do you no good in this case. The question at hand would be "are the majority of the people who purchase Gran Turosmo Japanese?"

I'm pretty sure I read that the EU has higher sales than the US - not that it makes any difference to me.

I do re-iterate though that this isn't a case of padding the numbers. I can't prove it, but my gut says that such tactics wouldn't be their style.

 

[Luminis]

I'm pretty sure I read that the EU has higher sales than the US - not that it makes any difference to me.

Europe is at slightly less than two million copies, so the US would still be a bigger market.

 

[machschnel]

Well it's a matter of taste really, but i'll take iconic european cars like the M3 E30 above a Mazda anyday

I've never understood the desire to drive low-powered street cars in a game. I drive a street car daily. It's mundane to drive in real life, I can't imagine what it's like to drive in the risk-free environment of a game.

Bring on the high powered race monsters. You know, the cars I'd never actually be able to drive in reality.

 

[MeanElf]

Europe is at slightly less than two million copies, so the US would still be a bigger market.

Ah, okay then.

I've never understood the desire to drive low-powered street cars in a game. I drive a street car daily. It's mundane to drive in real life, I can't imagine what it's like to drive in the risk-free environment of a game...

But that's been pretty much the focus of GT all of the way through - the difference is we can upgrade them. I'm surprised you play GT if all you want are the fast cars.