I love GT5...But it has awful Force Feedback!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Maximino
  • 70 comments
  • 14,188 views
I love the FF in GT5 on my G25. So different from car to car and even different on same car with different setup. I've been a race sim fan for decades now and I think GT5 has some of the best overall physics and force feedback of any sim or racer on any platform at any time.

It's right up ther with Richard Burns Rally, Live for Speed, iRacing, and other standouts. It isn't perfect, none are, but it's damn good. I use all typed of settings from 3 to 8, with power steering on and off. I find a sweet spot for many types of cars.
 
mykem
The FFB implementation in GT5 while not perfect is very good. It's not going to please those who want a more arcade and immersive feel to their games. For that you need to look into games like SHIFT, Forza or GTR2 on the PC. What PD has done is a natural progression or an evolution from previous GT games.
Click to expand...






I just LOL'ed pretty hard reading that post :lol:
 
I will agree though... When i drive a RealFeel mod on Rfactor or iRacing or NetKar, it feels so so much better than GT5, you can really feel what is going on, and sure i agree that GT5 feels dead.

But if you stand still in a car in GT5, you can actually feel the tyres, and you can adjust them wheel around the tyre movement, that to me feels just like a real car. It aint perfect sure, it doesnt give you the information that other game FFB gives you, and it doesnt feel like driving a car, but it does the job, F1 2010 was just the same, i don't think i've ever played a console game with what you could call good FFB, and i've never played a game at all that gives a completely realistic feel of a car steering wheel.
 
Maximino
That sir is just a fanboish opinion.
Forza serie is GT serie on the the Xbox, and not arcadey at all.
On PC you can find MANY games with correct FF implementation (do you really think GTR2 is an arcade???????????????????????????????)

FF in GT5 is just lacking, not wrong.
Nobody will die admitting it.
Click to expand...

You don't have to agree but I can hold my opinion as anyone here has every right to without being call a fanboy. Maybe you can explain the difference between how GTR2 or Forza 3 FFB effect differs from that of GT5. And then expound on why one is better than the other. I have done that in the past. Look in my profile and look at my past posts you'll find plenty of discussion regarding FFB in those game and GT5.


Bigbazz
I will agree though... When i drive a RealFeel mod on Rfactor or iRacing or NetKar, it feels so so much better than GT5, you can really feel what is going on, and sure i agree that GT5 feels dead.

But if you stand still in a car in GT5, you can actually feel the tyres, and you can adjust them wheel around the tyre movement, that to me feels just like a real car. It aint perfect sure, it doesnt give you the information that other game FFB gives you, and it doesnt feel like driving a car, but it does the job, F1 2010 was just the same, i don't think i've ever played a console game with what you could call good FFB, and i've never played a game at all that gives a completely realistic feel of a car steering wheel.
Click to expand...

Really. Apparently the guy who's responsible for programming Nkar Pro, Stefano Casillo, seems to think GT Academy demo FFB in his word:

" ...I think there is a fundamental difference in how FF is calculated in the group netKar PRO, iRacing, Live For Speed, VirtualGP3, even Gran Turismo Academy felt "netKar-ish" to me."

The rest of the interview here: http://bit.ly/c8kUvF
 
Last edited:
Those of you in this thread praising the FFB in this game need to go try iRacing/rFactor/NetKar then return to this thread and post your opinion, if GT is the only game you've played with a wheel then going back and forth with others who've played other sims is pointless.
 
drama-kyd
Those of you in this thread praising the FFB in this game need to go try iRacing/rFactor/NetKar then return to this thread and post your opinion, if GT is the only game you've played with a wheel then going back and forth with others who've played other sims is pointless.
Click to expand...
That's just it. If you are use to many of those PC sims especially Iracing which seriously focus on wheels and not controllers then you will be disappointed with GT5 ffb. Yet IMO Gt5 ffb is pretty good for a console title. After Iracing it's hard not to be disappointed with other games ffb.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
That's just it. If you are use to many of those PC sims especially Iracing which seriously focus on wheels and not controllers then you will be disappointed with GT5 ffb. Yet IMO Gt5 ffb is pretty good for a console title. After Iracing it's hard not to be disappointed with other games ffb.
Click to expand...

This.

My first experience of FFB was gt5 and it felt pretty good to me. I've since started playing iRacing and the feedback you get through the wheel is in a different league altogether. It's made gt5 feel really lifeless in comparison. I had a go at the GT Academy event at Eiffel tonight, the first time I've played gt5 for a couple of weeks and it felt pretty good, just getting a lot less information from the feedback than I get in iRacing. It doesn't feel wrong, just muted. I've tried with a DFGT and a G27, I don't think the wheel makes any real difference, its just how the game feels.
 
jagsta
This.

My first experience of FFB was gt5 and it felt pretty good to me. I've since started playing iRacing and the feedback you get through the wheel is in a different league altogether. It's made gt5 feel really lifeless in comparison. I had a go at the GT Academy event at Eiffel tonight, the first time I've played gt5 for a couple of weeks and it felt pretty good, just getting a lot less information from the feedback than I get in iRacing. It doesn't feel wrong, just muted. I've tried with a DFGT and a G27, I don't think the wheel makes any real difference, its just how the game feels.
Click to expand...
That's what I'm saying.
And it's not a console game problem (I agree PC gaming usually is a different league), as Forza has pretty good FF, which adds the driving experience a lot. And no, it's not the different driving model.

mykem
You don't have to agree but I can hold my opinion as anyone here has every right to without being call a fanboy. Maybe you can explain the difference between how GTR2 or Forza 3 FFB effect differs from that of GT5. And then expound on why one is better than the other. I have done that in the past. Look in my profile and look at my past posts you'll find plenty of discussion regarding FFB in those game and GT5.
Click to expand...
I don't really want to be offensive at all, but from your statement GT5=simulation while therestoftheworld=arcade. That's so untrue.
BTW reading the thread you can find why some people think GT5 FF is not that great.
 
GT5 feels okay until you play something like iRacing and then try GT5 again, you'll be like AARRGH I CAN'T FEEL THE CAR!

It's still about the best on consoles though
 
just as Maximino is screaming about, there is a whole facet of the FFB missing, what it does it does ok but the point is it its not representing certain things that happen in a car and are passed to the wheel AT ALL. Which is odd and unsettling when you are used to them.

Turning resistance dropoff when front tyres lost traction is the biggie for me - get halfway around a long corner as fast as you can without breaking traction, then start turning the wheel more and more, traction is broken, tyre indicator starts going red, but no decrease in resistance on the FFB. makes it all a bit floaty not having that.
 
mykem
Really. Apparently the guy who's responsible for programming Nkar Pro, Stefano Casillo, seems to think GT Academy demo FFB in his word:

" ...I think there is a fundamental difference in how FF is calculated in the group netKar PRO, iRacing, Live For Speed, VirtualGP3, even Gran Turismo Academy felt "netKar-ish" to me."
Click to expand...

Ah. I see your problem here. You've taken a quote that basically says "It feels like GT5 takes a similar approach to netKar for calculating FF" and interpreted it as "GT5's FF feels the same as/as good as netKar's."

You're entitled to your opinion, and I won't insult you by calling you a fanboy because of it, but you're not really entitled to use a false interpretation of a quote to try to justify why your opinion is correct.
 
I'm glad we are having a nice discussion about the FF.
Now I was wondering: is there a way to ask PD to improve FF support?

As I said, I really love the game, I play it every day, and that's the major drawback for me.
 
mykem
You don't have to agree but I can hold my opinion as anyone here has every right to without being call a fanboy. Maybe you can explain the difference between how GTR2 or Forza 3 FFB effect differs from that of GT5. And then expound on why one is better than the other. I have done that in the past. Look in my profile and look at my past posts you'll find plenty of discussion regarding FFB in those game and GT5.




Really. Apparently the guy who's responsible for programming Nkar Pro, Stefano Casillo, seems to think GT Academy demo FFB in his word:

" ...I think there is a fundamental difference in how FF is calculated in the group netKar PRO, iRacing, Live For Speed, VirtualGP3, even Gran Turismo Academy felt "netKar-ish" to me."

The rest of the interview here: http://bit.ly/c8kUvF
Click to expand...

Read the interview ages ago, that was before GT5 was released, and you know what, GT5 FFB feels nothing like NetKar, there is no disputing that.
 
I just boot up NK pro with the Fiat for a quick check against GT5, for one the forces is a lot stronger, there's more road texture and the transition between a gripping tire and sliding tire is more prominent, you can actually feel the front tires locking up.

In GT5 most of the FF seems to be about tire load, with some minor degree of road texture, but there's very little information regarding how the tire is gripping, you can easily test it by cranking the steering excessively and induce understeer, whereas in NK pro you can feel the resistance drop off once the tire is pass its optimal slip angle, there's little difference in GT5. And locking up the front tires in GT5 also have almost no effect on the FF.
 
I have to admit that im not into i-racing or other high end solutions for simulation neither am i a professional driver (read i do about 50k per year on german motorways etc and im not a slow driver) but i have to disagree with the FF pun here.

I started GT5 with a low cost wheel with terrible ff.
Got addicted and bought a Fanatec GT3 V2 with Pedals.

Started GT5 again with some "medium" car (e.G. Ford Gt40) and standard settings.
-> Got the first bumper wrong - hit the wall
-> to much gas - hit the wall

With standard settings and the new wheel i got so much input that i could no more drive a car with more than 300hp.

Went back to the settings and tuned everything a bit down (ps3 = ff @ 3 and down from sim to amateur):
Took a few minis, lupos etc and got used to it.

Tuned the ff back to simulation and ff @ 10 in the ps3 menu and (this is crucial for fanatec: set the wheel settings in the internal wheel menu all back up to 100 (std is off which means that the wheel takes the ff settings from GT5 ) if you change them on the wheel its much better)

Now yesterday i made the 200 miles at laguna seca with a viper and the race was quite intense. You feel the ABS hitting on the left foot. The curbs slack against the wheel, force of over / under steering was very present and once another car hit my back in a corner, i was barely able to hold the wheel as it was pushing in the wrong direction.
Also loss of tracktion at e.g. the corkscrew at laguna seca is done nicely by making the wheel lighter with its internal shock "thingys".

Maybe im missing something like the experience from i-racing, but put aside that GT5 is not reality, with the right settings it can give you a quite nice impression of the handling.
Also the wheel reflects different cars with or without powersteering (just that cars without power steering are harder to recover from mistakes the force the wheel needs to be turned is not that much different.
 
FF is working just fine for me using a G25.
 
Why do you guys say "best FFB for the console?" The PS3 can't crank out some more powerful and detailed FFB code???
 
oohhh yeah
Why do you guys say "best FFB for the console?" The PS3 can't crank out some more powerful and detailed FFB code???
Click to expand...
Yes, you're right: to tell the truth it doesn't make much sense anymore to say "best [xxxxx] for a console". Technically, with current generation hardware, there's nothing preventing making racing games as realistic (physics, driving dynamics, force feedback, etc) as PC simulators.
 
conath
Which doesn`t have any effect on DFGT/G25/27

I`m playing Race 07 on PC (be sure to check the demo:) and FFB is responsible for 30% of the fun from the game. It`s so much better, alive then GT5`s. Oh well, maybe someday Kaz PD will work on that...
Click to expand...

That will never change I can tell you for 100% sure!

Some things never change in game series... And this is one of these things...

As like the A-Spec will never change in the GT series... With GT6 we will also get such an dumb A-Spec mode with free choosable cars, tuning und wheels...

What has changed mostly since GT1? Graphics, Physics...

Try to play Supercar Challenge, that FF will kick your ass!!
 
SHIRAKAWA Akira
Yes, you're right: to tell the truth it doesn't make much sense anymore to say "best [xxxxx] for a console". Technically, with current generation hardware, there's nothing preventing making racing games as realistic (physics, driving dynamics, force feedback, etc) as PC simulators.
Click to expand...

It's mainly because console racing games are way more obsessed with pretty graphics over physics than PC sim games. In the PC sim world physics have a much higher priority than graphics.
 
Maximino
Always.
But has anyone ever adressed the problem to them?
Click to expand...

Seems like nothing gets addressed that doesn't make the game easier for noobs to beat in their sleep.

Mind you, better FFB probably COULD help a noob win a race easier, so perhaps that's the approach..?:sly:

Just start a bunch of threads saying how UNFAIR it is that you can't win every gold, because the FFB makes it so HARD to feel the grip going from under you.

That ought to do it..!

Mind you, after the AI fiasco, don't be surprised if PD make it even WORSE! :yuck:
 
I much prefer the FF in Ferrari Challenge/Supercar Challenge. The one thing these games replicate superbly is weight transfer, you get an excellent sense of where and also which way the forces are acting on the car. If the back end is about to break free you begin to feel it a split second before it actually happens. It all feels very involving where as GT feels very vague IMO.
 
Ferrari Challenge did have some descent ffb for a console game as well yet that is probably the only area that game was good at. If only there was a descent game to go alone with it's ffb.
 
MadduckUK
Turning resistance dropoff when front tyres lost traction is the biggie for me - get halfway around a long corner as fast as you can without breaking traction, then start turning the wheel more and more, traction is broken, tyre indicator starts going red, but no decrease in resistance on the FFB. makes it all a bit floaty not having that.
Click to expand...
This is the only area that I think Fm3 had yet missing in GT5 ffb. This information is still in GT5 through the sound of the tires. After a few endurance races I can easily determine the breaking point of my tires by these sounds so I can get more laps per set of tires. Weight shifting especially with ABS off is better in GT5. I like how I can feel the weight slightly shifting to help me balance the car when braking hard with ABS off.
 
Zoom!Zoom!
Ferrari Challenge did have some descent ffb for a console game as well yet that is probably the only area that game was good at. If only there was a descent game to go alone with it's ffb.
Click to expand...

Never played FC but SCC is a great game! I´ve played it a lot! But unfortunately the framerate is low. Forget the graphics but after GT5 you can´t go back to 25-30 fps... It feels so worse :nervous:

Anyway, for me, best (or most realistic) physics and great FFB on console. But annoyingly dumb AI sometimes but much more challenging :D

EDIT: Oh and the sounds! Orgasmic!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sdxzAdln6rc&feature=related
 
Last edited:
MadduckUK
Turning resistance dropoff when front tyres lost traction is the biggie for me - get halfway around a long corner as fast as you can without breaking traction, then start turning the wheel more and more, traction is broken, tyre indicator starts going red, but no decrease in resistance on the FFB. makes it all a bit floaty not having that.
Click to expand...

This is the biggest disappointed for me as well. From my autocross experience, this is how I am able to obtain information about the slip angles at the front tires during a corner and make small adjustments at the steering wheel as necessary. Without going into too much engineering detail, the self aligning torque of a tire begins to decrease just as the slip angles exceed the linear region of the lateral force vs. slip angle curve. This is what should be felt in the steering wheel as a decrease in centering torque. Some of the real world test data I've analyzed even shows that the self aligning torque is decreased so much so that it becomes negative within reasonable slip angles.

Unless PD is out to lunch with feeding data from their tire model to the force feedback algorithms, then I suspect that there are some fundamental issues with the tire model itself. Using a Pacejka tire model that would provide realistic tire behavior is not rocket science, so I'm hoping for PD's sake that there's just something being lost in communication between the tire model and the force feedback device.
 
A e r o
This is the biggest disappointed for me as well. From my autocross experience, this is how I am able to obtain information about the slip angles at the front tires during a corner and make small adjustments at the steering wheel as necessary. Without going into too much engineering detail, the self aligning torque of a tire begins to decrease just as the slip angles exceed the linear region of the lateral force vs. slip angle curve. This is what should be felt in the steering wheel as a decrease in centering torque. Some of the real world test data I've analyzed even shows that the self aligning torque is decreased so much so that it becomes negative within reasonable slip angles.

Unless PD is out to lunch with feeding data from their tire model to the force feedback algorithms, then I suspect that there are some fundamental issues with the tire model itself. Using a Pacejka tire model that would provide realistic tire behavior is not rocket science, so I'm hoping for PD's sake that there's just something being lost in communication between the tire model and the force feedback device.
Click to expand...

Ding Ding Ding! :)
 
Along with the AI, the FFB in GT5 is a huge disappointment for me (I use a G25). It just feels so lifeless and means the game loses quite a lot of immersion because of it. I just don't feel connected to the car with it. I do hope PD improve it via an update. Although I can't go back to compare I feel the FFB in the 2010 GT Academy was much better than this.
 
Wow, I must be driving a different game. I have absolutely no problem knowing when I'm losing grip through the wheel, with the tire sounds, and what I see on screen. I feel the curbs, the FF goes light when I get a little air or when the front end is almost off the ground. It gets heavier whith a stiffer setup, it feels vastly different from car to car to me. It makes me wonder if my G25 is doing the same thing as people's G27s.. I know for a fact the DFPro and DFGT suck, I have one.. it doesn't compare (they are the same thing)..

I remember people saying there was a problem with the G27 as it didn't respond to in game adjustments, and my G25 is hugely different from 3 to 5.. the difference between 2 and 9 is what you would think it should be too. I wonder if something else is going on with the FF on the G27 too. Anyway, if you have a DFGT- then it isn't GT5 that sucks, it's your wheel. G27? Maybe PD are purposeful wrecking FF on it like they are the button mapping?
 
Back