I think I’m turning Japanese…

  • Thread starter Thread starter Blake
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kensei
JPM isn't Button. JPM is a great driver. JPM knows how to pass. JPM has good race craft. JPM has won races.....
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And JPM has almost won a championship. No offence to Button, but he has shown us nothing special. He should have won races last year. He had the car to do it. But what happenned? He was occasionally on the podium. He’s not a champion driver yet, and I’m not confident he will be.

Blake
 
pSI civic
i wasnt compairing them i was just saying it was the same. the car in back was better but still couldnt pull it off. jensen isnt as bad as you say though. giving a good car he does good. see turkey for my example.
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Umm, JB had a car that was THE CLASS OF THE FIELD most of 2004. Did he win? Nope.

Turkey 05? JB finished 5th, what 38seconds off Kimi? Umm, nothing special there. He never looked that good all weekend.

IMO JB's best ever drive was Malaysia 04, he finished 2nd. Held his own with a car that was going off fast in the closing laps.

But I digress....



Where you are wrong was the scale. The BAR vs. Williams was a few tenths, no more than .5sec difference. The Sauber/McMerc was more along the lines of 2-3 seconds which at 200mph is HUGE. We won't even talk about the driver differences as it adds nothing to the argument.
 
the time difference doesnt mean **** if your being held up by the guy in front and hes going to block you to your grave. the sauber uses the ferrari engine so its not slow in a straight line. the 2-3 second difference comes in the corners and the driver skill.

as to button i was trying to use a recent spout of when he passed a lot of cars in a race. i wont defend him that much though as he could do better. getting points in the last 9 races is good though. he didnt win last year because the ferrari was so dominit. when they didnt win jensen wasnt there. as in brazil when jpm won button was out at the begining.
 
Blake
And JPM has almost won a championship. No offence to Button, but he has shown us nothing special. He should have won races last year. He had the car to do it. But what happenned? He was occasionally on the podium. He’s not a champion driver yet, and I’m not confident he will be.

Blake
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I agree with you. I love JPM but don't think he will never be champion. He is too ragged to string an entire season together like Alonso just did.

It is going to be the Kimi/Alonso show for the next few years. Schumi might challenge next season given a good car (which would be great) but I can't see anyone currently on the F1 grid, or who is in rumors to enter F1 in the coming year or two, that can hold a candle to Kimi or Alonso over an entire season.

JPM will win races, no doubt...and of everyone left I think he is realistically the 3rd best choice to take a title...but a HUGE longshot.
 
pSI civic
the time difference doesnt mean **** if your being held up by the guy in front and hes going to block you to your grave. the sauber uses the ferrari engine so its not slow in a straight line. the 2-3 second difference comes in the corners and the driver skill.
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Umm...no. When one car is that much faster than another (3 seconds per lap) there is little the other car can do to defend.

I'm off to bed...I'm bored with this argument. Sorry, you are wrong.
 
i think rb could bring honda some wins after he gets used to the car and team. he could win in the stewart and has won in the ferrari so i think its good. jv couldnt win in the honda as they wernt as good back then and jv isnt that good.

your missing the point i just made. the sauber uses the ferrari engine. its not like its the minardi. the sauber isnt the slowest car in a straight line. he wouldnt have been in position to pass.
 
kensei
I agree with you. I love JPM but don't think he will never be champion. He is too ragged to string an entire season together like Alonso just did.

It is going to be the Kimi/Alonso show for the next few years. Schumi might challenge next season given a good car (which would be great) but I can't see anyone currently on the F1 grid, or who is in rumors to enter F1 in the coming year or two, that can hold a candle to Kimi or Alonso over an entire season.

JPM will win races, no doubt...and of everyone left I think he is realistically the 3rd best choice to take a title...but a HUGE longshot.
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With Kimi and JPM in the same car I tend to agree. But, I still think he will be up there – and they are easily the best driver combo at the moment. McLaren are looking good for the next few seasons.

Blake
 
pSI civic
your missing the point i just made. the sauber uses the ferrari engine. its not like its the minardi. the sauber isnt the slowest car in a straight line. he wouldnt have been in position to pass.
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And the McLaren has the most efficient aero of anyone on the grid. Watch the speed traps, McLaren are always at the top end. Just because the engine isn’t the best (the engines are so close nowadays the difference is almost academic anyway) doesn’t mean they’re not fast in a straight line.

Kimi’s gearing wasn’t quite right (he was hitting the rev limiter on the straights) but he could still pass a Renault (better engine than the Mercedes) at Turn 1.

I’m sorry pSI, but you’re missing the point. It’s not power, it’s efficiency.

Blake
 
mclaren doesnt have the best aero on the grid. renault does. the mclaren cant follow as close in the corners as the renault. the mclaren does go well on the straights but suzuka isnt a top speed track.
 
McLaren doesn't have the best aero on the grid. Is that why they’re at least half a second faster than Renault? Anyway, we're talking about passing someone at the end of a straight when they’re already right behind them so what does the ability to follow someone through a corner have to do with anything?

Blake
 
the reason is because the renault isnt built for as much speed over reliability as the mclaren is. look at the race. the renault followed the ferrari closer then the mclaren did. thats why he could pass in the 130R and kimi couldnt.

i dont believe jpm would have been in the position to pass at the end of the straight. he would have had to stay close and then pop out all of a suden when jv didnt expect it. this wouldnt work though as by the time this could happen the corner would be right there and he would have to be so close the car would start to understeer. jv wouldnt have givin that position up.
 
Wow, that paragraph is so fractured. The McLaren has less engine power and a less reliable engine. Yet they are faster in a straight line, and faster around the rest of the track. It must be because their engine is unreliable!

Blake
 
Exactly, which means good and efficient aero! They have good top speed because the aero doesn’t generate a tonne of drag. The have good cornering speed because the aero generates alot of downforce and they have good mechanical grip.

Blake
 
but jpm would have been behind jv thus lowering the good affect of the aero and making him have to drop back in order to not run wide. he would have had to be farther back in order for this to not be a problem and at that distance jv would see the pass coming a mile away (woo a pun) and would have blocked it before jpm could do anything about it.
 
They were so close already, and going so slowly that it would have made no difference. Whatever, I’m sick of argueing over this with you. JPM crashed so it makes no difference, and you’re wrong anyway.

Blake
 
pSI civic
but jpm would have been behind jv thus lowering the good affect of the aero and making him have to drop back in order to not run wide. he would have had to be farther back in order for this to not be a problem and at that distance jv would see the pass coming a mile away
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If it lowered the efficiency of his aero, that why in the hell did he try to pass on the outside?
And, yes, JV could have seen JPM coming from a mile away because of JPM's angle, if JPM was passing on the inside!. Other members have already explained why JV was not looking towards the outside, but I'll sum it up.
1. It was a right turn.
2. You typically pass on the inside of turns.
3. JPM should not have tried to pass on the outside of the bloody turn! Especially since JV was already going to the outside lane when JPM attempted the pass.
 
Thus resulting me to asking why JV got the 25 second penalty when it was just a racing accident..

And as for the aero arguement, McMerc do has the best aero package pSI, JPM would have pwned the living hell out of JV on the straight but he was too inpatient.

And whoever said Sato don't deserved being booted out of the race, he was 2 car lenghs behind Trulli as Trulli began to turn into the chicane!! Somehow, points wise, he is the most successful japanese driver, but i think the least popular down the paddock right now.
 
Yet this season he only has 1 point. He’s easily been the worst driver of the season. He’s underperformed so badly in a car that can easily score points!

Blake
 
Blake
And the McLaren has the most efficient aero of anyone on the grid. Watch the speed traps, McLaren are always at the top end.
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Yep, but not in Japan. Alonso hit the highest speed trap yesterday, and he was as fast as Kimi every lap.

I think Alonso & Kimi would have fighted for 1st place in the last laps, but FIA has made 2 big mistakes (letting Kimi start from 17th place, when he had to begin in 20th and sanctioning Alonso when he DID Klien pass him after the chicane), so because of that Alonso didn't fought against Kimi for the victory. F0ck FIA.
 
Blake
Yet this season he only has 1 point. He’s easily been the worst driver of the season. He’s underperformed so badly in a car that can easily score points!

Blake
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Tiago Monteiro Jordan 7
Alexander Wurz McLaren 6 (Raced 1 race)
Narain Karthikeyan Jordan 5
Christian Klien Red Bull 5 (Has missed some races)
Christijan Albers Minardi 4
Pedro de la Rosa McLaren 4 (Raced 1 race)
Patrick Friesacher Minardi 3 (Heck he ain't even driving anymore!!!)
Antonio Pizzonia Williams 2 (Has only had the odd number of races)
Vitantonio Liuzzi Red Bull 1 (Only had the odd number of race)
Takuma Sato BAR 1 (He has raced in 13 of the 17 races (3 of them due to BAR not participating the other one because he was 'ill'), he is in a competitive car, 2004 he got 34 points)

That kind of puts it into context :)
 
darkfinal
I think Alonso & Kimi would have fighted for 1st place in the last laps, but FIA has made 2 big mistakes (letting Kimi start from 17th place, when he had to begin in 20th and sanctioning Alonso when he DID Klien pass him after the chicane), so because of that Alonso didn't fought against Kimi for the victory. F0ck FIA.
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No, no, no!

Kimi qualified 17th and had an engine change. Normally he would have been put to 20th position.... BUT, 3 drivers didn't finish their lap, which means they don't 'count' in the qualifying results. If Kimi would be 16th in qualification, he would be put back to 17th position, not 20th.

And about the Alonso move: Alonso did something wrong like I said in an earlier post: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1932617&postcount=93
 
Bee
Tiago Monteiro Jordan 7
Alexander Wurz McLaren 6 (Raced 1 race)
Narain Karthikeyan Jordan 5
Christian Klien Red Bull 5 (Has missed some races)
Christijan Albers Minardi 4
Pedro de la Rosa McLaren 4 (Raced 1 race)
Patrick Friesacher Minardi 3 (Heck he ain't even driving anymore!!!)
Antonio Pizzonia Williams 2 (Has only had the odd number of races)
Vitantonio Liuzzi Red Bull 1 (Only had the odd number of race)
Takuma Sato BAR 1 (He has raced in 13 of the 17 races (3 of them due to BAR not participating the other one because he was 'ill'), he is in a competitive car, 2004 he got 34 points)

That kind of puts it into context :)
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It would if you took away the points from the U.S. Grand Prix.
 
Yeah i just realised that myself,

What im trying to get across is that Monteiro in a Jordan is doing as good, if not better than Sato in a BAR.

Please of all gods powers do not put Sato in the 2nd Honda powered team, one day he could really cause a big accident.
 
Sjenk
No, no, no!

Kimi qualified 17th and had an engine change. Normally he would have been put to 20th position.... BUT, 3 drivers didn't finish their lap, which means they don't 'count' in the qualifying results. If Kimi would be 16th in qualification, he would be put back to 17th position, not 20th.

And about the Alonso move: Alonso did something wrong like I said in an earlier post: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showpost.php?p=1932617&postcount=93
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Alonso didn't: FIA ordered to Briattore to make Alonso go slow to let Klien pass him, but just after that, FIA regret and said to Alonso that he didn't have to let Klien overtake him. So, FIA has recognised their own mistake.

And, the driver who breaks his engine, goes 10 positions rear, no matter if the other drivers get a quali or not. The rules are clear.
 
darkfinal
And, the driver who breaks his engine, goes 10 positions rear, no matter if the other drivers get a quali or not. The rules are clear.
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No, the regulations clearly state that those who do not complete a lap will start at the back of the grid:
If more than one driver fails to complete a qualifying lap in the qualifying session they will be arranged at the back of the grid in numerical order.​

Blake
 
Maybe FIA did make a mistake, but what Alonso did in the first place wasn't right either. If there would be a hairpin instead of a chicane at that point, Alonso would have lost some time. What he did was rolling his car over the chicane, get some speed and let Klien pass in a way, that Alonso was able to get him again on the same straight. That cannot be right in my opinion. The chicane made it possible to maintain the distance he had behind Klien and that is simply not correct if you made a mistake. He still had profit of his mistake.
 
Speaking of Sato:

latenews0510_01.jpg
 
Blake
Maybe Sato won’t be racing in China. :) Linky!

Blake
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He offers no apology either. This is the end of Sato in F1 racing. More info below...

Asked how the chat went, Toyota's Trulli said: "He never understands. He does not think, he never uses his intelligence. He never listens."

Jarno says there are 'lots' of F1 rivals who agree that Sato is a bit dangerous at the wheel. "He didn't say sorry," Trulli explained.

Some of Trulli's unusual frustration, meanwhile, probably had something to do with the fact that - unlike his typically slower teammate Ralf Schumacher - he just hasn't yet got a handle on the new 'b' specification Toyota.

But Toyota boss, Tsutomu Tomita, also didn't hold back in slamming his 28-year-old compatriot. "Sato goes beyond being enthusiastic," said the Japanese. "It's flat out dangerous. I'm extremely annoyed."
 

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