I think PD need to rethink the licensing portion of the GT games

[SigmaViper11]

I lot of games have been built around throwing cash & cars at you, requiring the gamer to put out little effort, thus the game gets shelved after a little while of play. I think games that last like GT requires the gamer to apply some effort, such as obtaining licenses to compete in higher levels of races, much as would be required in the real world. The effort behind achieving licenses or winning certain races where the prize car can only be obtained gives the gamer appreciation of accomplishment. My own experience, the more difficult the challenges, the more I keep coming back for more punishment, I will keep playing that game for years.

So basically cash, cars and nifty features are no prob, as long as they game gives you that edge of your seat challenge. If I understand you correctly.

Also am I the only one who thinks there should be a license completion optional rule for server hosts? Like I'm hosting a race, but set it so anyone can join as long as you have an I-A.

 

[SigmaViper11]

If people wish to do the tests, then that's great for them, but it shouldn't be forced on people who don't wish to.

Choice in gaming is always better. Always.

While choice is nice if you really think about it, its not much different from other games. You have prerequisite challenges (in GT thats licenses), then you have the actual challenges (the races) and then some form of prize. Occasionally theres miscellaneous challenges. So I don't see much of an issue. A. at least you learn something hopefully, and B. PD has been more than lenient with licenses. Get all bronze and begin racing. Bronze isn't usually very difficult to get. Now trying acquire the gold prizes, you need in some form or another, skill. But still, how is that setup any different from most games?


And yes, I know, double post, I'm on a PS3, its memory won't support all that text.

 

[VXR]

Honestly, after four games in the series do you need to do a license test? Surely once you have the hang of the new physics engine, then you're pretty sure how a car takes a corner? That can be achieved within Arcade mode. Or, you can enter races to gain experience to help yourself improve, so you're being rewarded with credits and learning real race craft from being in a real race. Some of us have now been playing driving games for 20+ years and the principles of driving haven't changed in that time and I just feel it's something for the achiever to feel great about, but for someone who just wants to jump in, race, make money and photograph cars it's an enforced ritual that gets in the way of what I want from the game.

As long as you're enjoying doing the license, if it's optional, why does it matter if some want to skip them?

 

[Famine]

This all sounds nice, but if it ain't broken, why fix it?

It is. I explained how it is and how to fix it.

In reality, more advanced race licences are gained by... well... racing. GT's version of licences still have their place as a tutorial tool but, as I said, the ability to do a 40mph slalom in a Saxo should neither be a barrier to nor qualifier for a 24 hour endurance race - currently it's both.

 

[Sasek]

I was thinking about small addon to the licence system. C Licence would be available for free at the start of the career. And then, B, A, etc you have to pay some money to proceed. The game would be significantly lengthened, and racing in your career will start from the slowest cars. I did not like in previous GT that you could buy at the start more than 300 hp used car and compete in races available for a A or B licensed immediately. Well my opinion is based on GT1 and 2, never played GT4, but I think that is a good idea. What you think?

 

[regnar]

I think as the game physics become more realistic, the license test become more revelent, but they do need a fresh look at how they are applied.

 

[Tornado]

This all sounds nice, but if it ain't broken, why fix it?

I've seen quite a few reviews, both hobby and professional, that have raked the GT series over the coals for the licence tests and explicitly praised other games that didn't have them; so you could make quite a convincing argument that it is broken. I also personally know people who wanted to give the series a try but balked at the idea that 95% of the game content is held hostage unless you grind for several hours. While I understand and partially agree with the concept of them, they arguably wouldn't be as effective as simply allowing new players to mess around on tracks and learn themselves. And, at the very least, I've never seen an argument that actually explains why they should be mandatory. It always falls back on "that's how the GT series has always been."

If I feel that I'm competent enough at GT games that I want to circumvent the licence tests and jump right into racing (and, strictly speaking, after playing games in this series for over 10 years, I do), why should anyone else who is not me care? They aren't playing the game. I am. And even if I'm not really good at the game, and I decide to go back and do the licence tests to get better, why does it matter to anyone else that I made the choice for myself rather than having the choice forced upon me?

 

[SigmaViper11]

Honestly, after four games in the series do you need to do a license test? Surely once you have the hang of the new physics engine, then you're pretty sure how a car takes a corner? That can be achieved within Arcade mode. Some of us have now been playing driving games for 20+ years and the principles of driving haven't changed in that time and I just feel it's something for the achiever to feel great about, but for someone who just wants to jump in, race, make money and photograph cars it's an enforced ritual that gets in the way of what I want from the game.

I missed GT1 but picked up at GT2 and stuck with it since. The Gran Turismo series has never really come off much as a pick up and play game. Its effectively a car RPG sim. Plus its the people online that can't keep a car straight that make license testing at some point, necessary.

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

I think its a necessary thing to have in games period. Iam looking forward to doing them as it teaches people how to drive in the game from beginner all the way to the more serious gamers. Doing them teaches lines for certain tracks that you may not have tried if it wasnt for them. I like how you must do the different licenses to complete the higher races. When doing these tests it makes it feel like a accomplishment when you have all gold. I dont see why people are crying about doing them. All I can perceive from it is that they suck, which doesnt make much sense, becuase doing these tests are something that should really benefit them.

 

[VXR]

It's nothing about sucking, it's about what I want from my games and that's to primarily earn credits to buy different cars to photograph. Licenses are just another hindrance to wanting to play the game in the way I want to.

 

[Famine]

I dont see why people are crying about doing them. All I can perceive from it is that they suck, which doesnt make much sense, becuase doing these tests are something that should really benefit them.

Now... I'm a Goldjunkie - I have all-gold licences in multiple GT games in multiple regions - but I think the way GT does licences needs reviewing.

So, now we've debunked that one - and I bet that I have more gold licences than you do (very few people own a copy of every full release in every region and a console on which to play it) - can we move away from pettiness and back towards constructive discussion?

As I said before, the licences are necessary but their implementation needs improving. There needs to be a move away from "You can pass a series of short course tests, this means you qualify for a 24 hour race" (and "you can't ... this means you don't...") and towards realistic career progression. By all means have a basic set of C-Licence tests to give you your racing licence initially (and novice series which don't require a licence - like reality), but thereafter have licences gained through actually racing as you do in real life. The actual tests themselves can be retained as driving challenges (like they are in GTPSP, as it happens) to give you extra prize money and maybe cars too, so you won't miss out on your 60 foot circle, sector 2 of Trial Mountain or stopping on a dime after a kilometre of acceleration. The tests themselves are still there and they still perform a function of training you in the driving physics, but it's the racing that gets you the racing licences.

Reality doesn't parachute you into 24hr of the Nuerburgring because you've driven through the Corkscrew at 80mph. Reality doesn't stop an international race series champion from driving the 24hr of the Nuerburgring because they can't drive through the Corkscrew at 80mph. Gran Turismo should reflect this - but doesn't.

 

[Gejabo]

I could live with that.

But as I am not a gold junky (most licences I passed on bronze) I still think I should be able to pasticipate on the 24h Nurburgring event.

So the way you qualify should still be within everybody's reach (with some practise ofcours ).

 

[Jay]

I could live with that.

But as I am not a gold junky (most licences I passed on bronze) I still think I should be able to pasticipate on the 24h Nurburgring event.

So the way you qualify should still be within everybody's reach (with some practise ofcours ).

If you pass on bronze you can do the enduros, gold isn't required.

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

So, now we've debunked that one - and I bet that I have more gold licences than you do (very few people own a copy of every full release in every region and a console on which to play it) - can we move away from pettiness and back towards constructive discussion?

Who cares? I was in no way of saying I have more gold trophies than anyone. I said it feels good to get gold as it feels like a great accomplishment since some golds are hard to get. I believe the system is good the way the way it is. If the system is changed then that'll be alright aswell. The point of them being there one way or another is the important part.

 

[TheCracker]

The test for a, say, Endurance Licence could be the ability to knock out 6 consecutive laps of a given track within a second or so of a given time. Further tests would be to do similar with differing weather and tyre conditions and others with differing amounts of AI cars on track too. These are the sorts of things drivers would be expected to deal with IRL.

 

[VXR]

The actual tests themselves can be retained as driving challenges (like they are in GTPSP, as it happens) to give you extra prize money and maybe cars too, so you won't miss out on your 60 foot circle, sector 2 of Trial Mountain or stopping on a dime after a kilometre of acceleration. The tests themselves are still there and they still perform a function of training you in the driving physics, but it's the racing that gets you the racing licences.

The test for a, say, Endurance Licence could be the ability to knock out 6 consecutive laps of a given track within a second or so of a given time. Further tests would be to do similar with differing weather and tyre conditions and others with differing amounts of AI cars on track too. These are the sorts of things drivers would be expected to deal with IRL.

I agree with both of these points, if the licenses are to be retained. If you get a kick from doing a 30m circle in a Micra a la GT2 or the ever-present stopping in a box, that's good for you, but what that teaches you about racing, I have no idea, as they're not skills required in a race.

 

[Famine]

Who cares? I was in no way of saying I have more gold trophies than anyone. I said it feels good to get gold as it feels like a great accomplishment since some golds are hard to get. I believe the system is good the way the way it is. If the system is changed then that'll be alright aswell. The point of them being there one way or another is the important part.

You said the only reason you could think of for people "crying about them" was that they "suck" at them.

I dont see why people are crying about doing them. All I can perceive from it is that they suck, which doesnt make much sense, becuase doing these tests are something that should really benefit them.

I'm one of the people calling for them to be changed. I don't suck at them.

 

[Gejabo]

If you pass on bronze you can do the enduros, gold isn't required.

true

 

[regnar]

I could see some new license tests, since damage is implemented, such as the proper way to pass an opponent in a turn without collision, new players tend to dive bomb into a turn, late brake then pinball off the opponent to make the pass. The proper ways the defend a position without multi move blocking, such as holding to a tighter racing line. Even though watching the pros sometime don't give the best examples.

 

[TheDabbinDave]

I think they have a system like iRacing or much like Famine is suggesting. We should spend time cutting our teeth in low classes and move up once we have demonstrated a certain level of competency. Hmm, sounds a bit like GT5P!

 

[eSZee]

So, now we've debunked that one - and I bet that I have more gold licences than you do (very few people own a copy of every full release in every region and a console on which to play it) - can we move away from pettiness and back towards constructive discussion?

As I said before, the licences are necessary but their implementation needs improving. There needs to be a move away from "You can pass a series of short course tests, this means you qualify for a 24 hour race" (and "you can't ... this means you don't...") and towards realistic career progression. By all means have a basic set of C-Licence tests to give you your racing licence initially (and novice series which don't require a licence - like reality), but thereafter have licences gained through actually racing as you do in real life. The actual tests themselves can be retained as driving challenges (like they are in GTPSP, as it happens) to give you extra prize money and maybe cars too, so you won't miss out on your 60 foot circle, sector 2 of Trial Mountain or stopping on a dime after a kilometre of acceleration. The tests themselves are still there and they still perform a function of training you in the driving physics, but it's the racing that gets you the racing licences.

Reality doesn't parachute you into 24hr of the Nuerburgring because you've driven through the Corkscrew at 80mph. Reality doesn't stop an international race series champion from driving the 24hr of the Nuerburgring because they can't drive through the Corkscrew at 80mph. Gran Turismo should reflect this - but doesn't.

So in essence, have the GTLife mode, license portion at least, somewhat resemble the GTAcademy procedures? Except the whole playing the video game just to get a chance at driving real cars.

 

[SLAPHAPPYFRANKY]

You said the only reason you could think of for people "crying about them" was that they "suck" at them.
I'm one of the people calling for them to be changed. I don't suck at them.

That has nothing to do with how many golds someone has. I dont care how many golds someone has or do I care to brag about how many golds I have.

 

[Accelerate]

I could see some new license tests, since damage is implemented, such as the proper way to pass an opponent in a turn without collision, new players tend to dive bomb into a turn, late brake then pinball off the opponent to make the pass. The proper ways the defend a position without multi move blocking, such as holding to a tighter racing line. Even though watching the pros sometime don't give the best examples.

In GTPSP challenges (closest thing to licenses) you couldn't make contact with other drivers. Grants an instant fail. And the challenges in GT4 also failed if you made contact. And license test in GT4 which had the Pace Car also gave an instant fail if you make contact, or overtake funnily enough.

 

[Folkedahl]

I've always liked the license tests. Yet another thing that makes GT stand out from other games. They have helped me learn tricky sections. The time it takes to get the licenses is quite small compared to the rest of the game. What harm is a little practice with the ability to win some cool cars.

 

[Tornado]

And the challenges in GT4 also failed if you made contact. And license test in GT4 which had the Pace Car also gave an instant fail if you make contact, or overtake funnily enough.

You only instant failed in GT4 Driving Missions/Pace Car Licence Tests if you absolutely plowed into the AI drivers (basically, if you hit them with more than a 5 MPH difference in speed). Simply bumping them didn't do anything, which I know because when I Golded IA-15 my first time out (thank you, thank you) I basically pushed the Skyline around the track for the last quarter of the lap.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

Gran Turismo games are hard, deal with it

S ranking missions on hard mode in Armored Core is harder I think. The difficulty is a main reason I enjoy these games.

woot

^I like that idea, but what I think would be nice is having a downloadable "key" on PSN that unlocks all events without the licenses. It makes sense to me because it still follows the true GT spirit, but it can be changed if people don't like it. I'd prefer it to be free, but if they made it 99 cents or maybe two dollars, they'd still get a lot of people wanting it.

I agree, I know many causal gamers who give up or get very frustrated with GT because of tests.

+1 for have a downloadable key to unlock them.

As for me I'm getting gold as usual

Also, I say arcade mode should have every car unlocked from the get go.

 

[CoolColJ]

I dunno, maybe if you don't like it, then maybe GT5 isn't the game for you. There is choice out there

There comes a point where it is, what it is.

 

[Rocker]

I've never seen an argument that actually explains why they should be mandatory. It always falls back on "that's how the GT series has always been."

Ok, I'm not going to presume to know the mind of PD, so I don't know if this is how they arrived at the licenses decision, I just want to point out that from a marketing standpoint, there is a logical reason to requiring licenses.

If someone is unable to bronze the licenses for any given section, they are likely to fail miserably at the races for that level. This person is not going to blame himself for being an incompetent driver, instead they are going to blame to PD for such a (choose your epithet) terri-bad game.

This leads to bad PR, bad word-of-mouth, etc.

If the entire game is unlocked from the beginning for all players, then far too many people will struggle with far too many events, and that is just plain bad marketing. On the other hand, if the group of incompetent drivers cannot even unlock the races, it is unlikely they will complain publicly about GT, because then the gamer is only embarrassing himself, revealing that he cannot even pass the license exam.

 

[FlourescentBlak]

Okok, how about an all car unlock key for arcade mode. That way casual gamers get all the cars they payed for even if it cost them a buck or two more.

On topic: I really think the licencing portion of the game is fine, I'm just participating in the thread because it's interesting and I know people who would agree.

 

[Famine]

That has nothing to do with how many golds someone has.

Yes it does.

You determined that the people "crying about" (constructively discussing how to improve) licence tests "suck" at them. The gold licences that I have in multiple GT games on multiple versions (PAL, NTSC-J, NTSC-UC) say that I don't suck at them, yet I'm one of the people you'd determine as "crying about" licence tests. Thus your assertion is incorrect because I have very many licence golds and am a Goldjunkie.

If the entire game is unlocked from the beginning for all players, then far too many people will struggle with far too many events, and that is just plain bad marketing.

GT4 had a halfway house in this regard. As well as the licence tests, there was an indication of real-world licence structure - you couldn't advance to Extreme events until you'd completed all Beginner and Professional events - and you couldn't do the last Professional event until you'd completed all the other Beginner and Professional events.

I'd be happier if GT5 retained this kind of structure and rebadged it as licensing, while retaining the tests themselves as additional challenges.