BobK
Premium
- 7,020
- Massachusetts, USA
Offering it is fine. Forcing it, no so fine.
Immigration
- Thread starter KSaiyu
- 1,702 comments
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- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
The irony in all of this is that out government pitches itself as "a friend of small business", but has fundamentally failed to recognise that the people smugglers are running their operations as a business. They try to shut them down by spreading the word that asylum seekers - even genuine refugees - won't be resettled in Australia, but the message clearly isn't getting through. When those Rohingya were picked up off the coast of Aceh, several were interviewed and they said that they wanted to come to Australia, but had no idea about the policy. People smugglers load boats with hundreds of people who pay in advance, and cut them loose on the open sea. They're not guiding vessels in the way they once were. There is nothing about the operation to disrupt because the people smugglers quit the operation before we become aware of it.
We have erred in two major areas: first, when Kevin Rudd was Prime Minister, he recognised that people smuggling was a regional problem, and so demanded a regional solution. Abbott countered this by accusing Rudd of let other countries dictate our foreign policy (but he has been happy to take a dump on their foreign policies), and so we refuse to help in any capacity. Secondly, he insists that refugees must "come through the front door, not the back", but fails to recognise that the likes of the Rohingya cannot come in through the front door because they are denied citizenship rights by their own government, and thus cannot get visas.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Really? Your solution is "do nothing until the oppressive regimes stop of their own volition"?
- 2,851
- Australia
That's the quandry in a nutshell. @Imari had a crack at injecting some substance, but still proposed an approach that would simply allow every person that thinks they require refuge to float the gauntlet, and chance their arm that they might come out the other end alive. In a way, I don't mind it. The worst thing about the current setup is that we're generating a portion of society that has had only inprisonment as the their earliest experience of their new country. As cold as it sounds, I'd kind of rather the loss of life than the loss of a stable mental state.
Still, as far as I can see, the only way we're not limited to dealing with either greater or lesser evils, is to be proactive. Seems that wearing "Threat them as humans!" and "Don't abuse their human rights!" t-shirts is more important than nutting out a system that would actually work though.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Further proof that our asylum seeker policy is rotten to the core - they are now being detained and processed at sea outside our maritime protection zone, which means that we didn't have to be as diligent in investigating their claims of asylum or follow up on their status once they are resettled:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...namese-asylum-seekers-detained-at-sea/6496290
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...namese-asylum-seekers-detained-at-sea/6496290
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
"I tried to get out of Burma,
But they said 'nope, nope, nope'."
But they said 'nope, nope, nope'."
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
I have yet to see a logical explaination on how Australia can take in refugees without getting flooded by them because of those actions.
Ever try feed a Seagull?
We having a small population and huge land is not a logical answer, especially when we are already at our infustructure limits already as our population is growing at a higher rate then any other developed country by percentage.
Unless you think them being homeless on our massive land is the solution?
Ever try feed a Seagull?
We having a small population and huge land is not a logical answer, especially when we are already at our infustructure limits already as our population is growing at a higher rate then any other developed country by percentage.
Unless you think them being homeless on our massive land is the solution?
- 2,851
- Australia
Sincerest apologies, but @prisonermonkeys is far too busy getting riled up elsewhere to give you a non-answer here.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
I am yet to see any conclusive evidence that our policy has made any actual impact on the region. I would say that it hasn't, considering that there are thousands of people adrift in the Andaman Sea.
I might not have all of the answers, but don't buy into LeMansAid's hype. He's quite happy to have his government commit massive human rights violations in his name because one person can't produce a bulletproof policy on demand.
- 2,851
- Australia
What's this?
I'm.... happy..... with....... massive human rights violations? That's pretty damn slanderous. You're starting to walk a fine line there with your commentary on some of our characters.
I put forward something that you didn't bother to comment on. You might not think anything of it, but you've given no equivalent alternative.
- 6,964
- South Africa
...To be 100% honest, I haven't been following this issue so am kinda curious: from what little info I read online, Aussie gov said not to "encourage" the traffickers. Am I right?
I know EU plans to attack the smugglers directly by blowing their ships up, so what is Aus planning to do? Or are they too busy worrying about the upcoming Ashes to care?
I know EU plans to attack the smugglers directly by blowing their ships up, so what is Aus planning to do? Or are they too busy worrying about the upcoming Ashes to care?
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
Right now we send most refugees to an island outside of Australian territory, the idea being that it will stop more Refugees coming by boats here as the process will be very long.
What the Rudd Governemnt did was remove this process and and have them processed in overcrowded Australian Detention centers, problem was Refugees then started coming like a Flock a seagulls to food and in the process 1000s died in countless Boat capsizes in a short period of time.
As you can see when the policy got introduced in 2007 and implemented till 2013 the number of people arriving by Boat went from 60 in 2006(before policy) to 20587(before policy was scrapped in 2013).
Not only was the refugee Numbers getting out of hand but more where dying as a result(Drowning).
When the Rudd/Gillard Labour Government Realized this was a Failure then went back to the Original plan in the last year of their leadership when they lost the Election to the Liberals they made it so that they wouldn't disclose Refugee numbers to the public to deter refugees from trying to come and since less boats have came, but because the refugees are now in a different country they don't have to be detained under Australian Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Solution
Fact is you can play all Human rights this and that, but this will cost soo much more money from people who don't want to foot the bill(the people who voted) and many more will die as a result. Refugees despite how poor their conditions are do not have a Born right to Australian Money, and they seem pretty adamant to skip all the other Asian countries(Many with much better Economy's and Living standards then where they Originate) on their Quest to Australia looking for it.
Also please keep in mind that the Market price for getting on one of these barely floating boats is significantly more then any Airfare to Australia will cost.
What the Rudd Governemnt did was remove this process and and have them processed in overcrowded Australian Detention centers, problem was Refugees then started coming like a Flock a seagulls to food and in the process 1000s died in countless Boat capsizes in a short period of time.
As you can see when the policy got introduced in 2007 and implemented till 2013 the number of people arriving by Boat went from 60 in 2006(before policy) to 20587(before policy was scrapped in 2013).
Not only was the refugee Numbers getting out of hand but more where dying as a result(Drowning).
When the Rudd/Gillard Labour Government Realized this was a Failure then went back to the Original plan in the last year of their leadership when they lost the Election to the Liberals they made it so that they wouldn't disclose Refugee numbers to the public to deter refugees from trying to come and since less boats have came, but because the refugees are now in a different country they don't have to be detained under Australian Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Solution
Fact is you can play all Human rights this and that, but this will cost soo much more money from people who don't want to foot the bill(the people who voted) and many more will die as a result. Refugees despite how poor their conditions are do not have a Born right to Australian Money, and they seem pretty adamant to skip all the other Asian countries(Many with much better Economy's and Living standards then where they Originate) on their Quest to Australia looking for it.
Also please keep in mind that the Market price for getting on one of these barely floating boats is significantly more then any Airfare to Australia will cost.
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- 1,292
- CZE
- novcze
... and Czech Republic as well.
I'm really surprised that our politicians are showing some common sense in this matter. Or maybe they are afraid because people would be upset about immigrants and next time they would vote someone else.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 6,964
- South Africa
...So what are their short- and long-term plans? Simply burying one's head in sand won't get them anywhere, right? Haven't Aus gov put forward a... "action plan" or some such?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
No idea - they have literally made it illegal for anyone involved in border security to talk about any aspect of border security:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...on-centre-secrecy-just-got-even-worse/6501086
While there might be an argument for keeping tactics at sea a secret, this applies to detention facilities and anything that happens within them. There have been reports of widespread sexual abuse, denial of medical treatment, and attacks from locals living adjacent to the facilities. And now, we will know nothing about it.
- 6,964
- South Africa
...Dunno what to say but...hmm, maybe Australian gov is taking a lesson on "Good Governance" from North Korea...
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
It's frightening because they can do anything they want and nobody will know anything about it. We have already faced serious criticism from the UN commissioner charged with investigating claims of torture; our response was "oh, shut up and give us credit for saving lives"....Dunno what to say but...hmm, maybe Australian gov is taking a lesson on "Good Governance" from North Korea...
- 6,964
- South Africa
...Wait, doesn't Austalia have a law protecting whistleblowers? What happens if you expose the ugly truths?
...Aaaand if such a law isn't in place then can the Aus government demand extradition if you blow the proverbial whistle and run to... oh I dunno, Sweden?
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
Oh, good - now we're housing asylum seekers alongside violent offenders, outlaw bikie members and sex offenders as a means of preventing them from entering the country:
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...on-detainees-sent-to-christmas-island/6503812
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2015-...on-detainees-sent-to-christmas-island/6503812
- 2,851
- Australia
This article is the equivalent of Today Tonight "exposing" some supposedly dodgy Islamist something-or-other, but simply showing Muslims praying, to a background of scary music.
From the article.....
But for the fact that they're from, and going to, another country, they're no different to ex-cons that you'd have all around you. Are you xenophobic?
You're lapping up the same drivel that the trashy "news" shows deal in.
- 33,155
- Hammerhead Garage
- 2,851
- Australia
It never does.
Maybe your lust for ever more ammunition is blinding you to all logic here. There are highly debatable policies in place right now. This one can be spun to look quite bad - but in reality, it's a non-starter as debate fodder.
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
What is the difference between that and ''illegal'' immigrants.
Remmember there are legal ways that are significantly cheaper to getting in this country that don't require spending thousands of dollars to get on a barely floating vessel so they can try skip the queue.
- 6,964
- South Africa
...
I'm sure this is the case most of the time, but generally speaking, many folks who choose to ride in a dingy, smelly, cramped excuse of a ship are not aware of that. I thought I read that on a link provided somewhere in these pages. Besides, how many of these asylum seekers qualify for that status anyway? One in ten thousand? A hundred thousand? What are the requirements to be accepted? A good grasp of basic English? A basic understanding of Aussie culture? Amount of moolah in their bank accounts?
- 9,401
- Western Sydney
- mustafur
You guys would be surprised how many of those people know exactly what they are doing by being in those boats, after all they are spending huge money getting on the boat in the first place.
I would bet if the requirements to gain residency here where relaxed alot of people wouldn't reduce themselves to this method, and at the end of the day that is likely the self created scenario here that both governments fail to understand.
I would bet if the requirements to gain residency here where relaxed alot of people wouldn't reduce themselves to this method, and at the end of the day that is likely the self created scenario here that both governments fail to understand.
