Is Gran Turismo right on the money now?

photonrider

photonrider

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Canada
Canada
photonrider
I was an obsessive grinder in GT5. I had to. I played the original game, without a single update, till the end.
There's a thread out there somewhere, buried among the quarter million threads in here, that detail the agony and ecstasy -something on the lines of "Thanks, Kaz, I'm fully upgraded now' or something to that effect. :) I must add to it - but I guess I have to find it first.

Getting credits in GT4 was fairly easy, once one trained good old B-Spec Bob to do his job.
GT5 was a bit of a grind till one trained their bots to grind and then the grinding was shared but still a huge amount of grinding to get a Miura for instance.
I never bought the Miura till I had upgraded my game fully to the compleat GT5, it was that hard to get the Miura - just lots of grinding, too much of grinding - though it made me drive hundreds of thousand of miles.
As soon as I upgraded from Version 1 to the GT5's final cut, I was boggled. Credits were so easy to make that they were coming out of my ying yang left, right and center - before long I was floating in cars. And credits.
Credits have always been an important part of the game. To some as important, if not more, than photography, or tuning, or racing, or even dabbling in that murderously obsessive and very addictive time-trialing. Or just plain enjoying the looks and feel of hundreds of cars.
Some would say if there were no credits, the game would be broken instantly.
So I was quite happy to suddenly receive a huge windfall of credits - and even though I had over a thousand cars, I still needed get some 20M cars that I had missed.
In effect - if not for the 20M cars, then GT5 Vers. 1.00 credit system would be okay, though a bit of a grind.
I know - because I did it. And can compare the differences from both sides of the fence.
So the sudden windfalls after the total upgrade solved the 20M problem, but in the end became a flood of credits and people were actually throwing credits away.
As well - the GT5 drive-bots that were being farmed out also raked in the moolah and the banks were overflowing.
Credit system broken.

On to GT6 credit pay-out system now.
What do you think?
Let me have your thoughts on the present credit system before I run off another epistle on this subject.
 
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The credit system sucks IMO. Best thing to happen to GT5/6 were the early credit glitches that let you get on with buying cars and having fun, as opposed to grinding and running the terrible offline career.
 
Johnnypenso
The credit system sucks IMO. Best thing to happen to GT5/6 were the early credit glitches that let you get on with buying cars and having fun, as opposed to grinding and running the terrible offline career.
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TuomaZ
Basically the micro-transactions ruined the system pretty much. GT6 isn't the first game ruined by messing around with real money.
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Agreed:tup:
And I still feel that the micro transaction element is stopping PD giving us payouts on the same level as the seasonals in the last year of GT5. Remember the old Eifel F1 seasonal with the PP bonus? I was raking in 4million Cr per race enabling me to finish my garage and purchase the Red Bull X2010 in every colour!!! Happy days:tup:
 
I'm not sure about the system. Sure micro-transactions harmed a little bit but in the end you still got enough money to not need them. I got the 1.000.000 Cr. start bonus and spend them instantly. After a few seasonals the money came back and it was even more. My stats now say I've earned ~100.000.000Cr. from which I have ~30.000.000Cr. left atm.

Why should you need micro-transactions then? GT still pays out enough imho
 
Johnnypenso
The credit system sucks IMO. Best thing to happen to GT5/6 were the early credit glitches that let you get on with buying cars and having fun, as opposed to grinding and running the terrible offline career.
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Man, with the new seasonals and if you have a bonus connection, you can make 10 million very easily. It is pretty good the money system right now.
 
I'm not fond of high payouts. Was disappointed when Polyphony raised them and even returned the log in bonus. Yes, yes I know this is an unpopular opinion.
 
I think they're more realistic, sure. This is something all racing games get wrong: in real racing, you usually don't gain money, you lose it. Especially in amateur racing, you'll end up winning only a very small fraction of the money you spend maintaining and improving the car. In Saturday night short-track racing, for instance, you might wind up only winning $1,000 on a season while your expenses can (and frequently do) end up totaling over $15,000. Even internationally renowned series like the NASCAR Sprint Cup series aren't immune to this: Jimmie Johnson earned $20 million last year. Guess how much the championship pays? $7.5 million. That means that, on winnings alone, the team would have to win several races just to pay off Jimmie's salary alone. The other expenses - crew salary, R&D, shop expenses, etc. - add up to even more, and typically sponsors still don't pay enough for you to end up in the black.

I for one am actually glad that GT6 doesn't pay a crap-ton of money to win races. It forces you to be very metered and thoughtful about your purchases, especially early on. It's more realistic that way.
 
SuzukaStar
The current batch of holiday seasonals has netted me the most money I've ever had since the game launched.
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Since I opened this discussion I have made 4M. That includes a trip to the neighbours as well as having lunch with my gamer-sons.
I took a stock Celica 2000GT-R to the beginners to try it out. My skills+car made me equal to the Rabbit Gibson in the Elise. Ended up doing the race over and over - won 8 times lost 2. All the races were pretty hair-raising. Gibson is a mad-hatter. Done researching him I headed to the Intermediates to tussle with Gasparini. Stock 500 PP R390 GT1 road car was too much for him. Went back at 475 PP and found his lap times and mine were equalized. Did a whole bunch of races with him, barely winning at the line. He's a raging lunatic - hates to lose.
Came back to earth to find a load of credits in the bank.
Considering I spent the 12M I made yesterday and was broke this made me happy.
I need money for bling. You know . . . paint, fancy wheels, car washes . . . :D
Money is a little easier to grind out this time. Or should I be saying a lot more fun?

If a player did all the Holiday Seasonal events and golded every one they would end up with 10 M. That's a lot of credits that can be made in a day.

If one can actually 'gold' every event. :lol:

Well . . . now to fight with David, the 'expert'; back to the console.

:cheers:
Great responses, thank you, keep 'em coming - the more we know . . ..
 
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TeamCZRRacing
I think they're more realistic, sure. This is something all racing games get wrong: in real racing, you usually don't gain money, you lose it. Especially in amateur racing, you'll end up winning only a very small fraction of the money you spend maintaining and improving the car. In Saturday night short-track racing, for instance, you might wind up only winning $1,000 on a season while your expenses can (and frequently do) end up totaling over $15,000. Even internationally renowned series like the NASCAR Sprint Cup series aren't immune to this: Jimmie Johnson earned $20 million last year. Guess how much the championship pays? $7.5 million. That means that, on winnings alone, the team would have to win several races just to pay off Jimmie's salary alone. The other expenses - crew salary, R&D, shop expenses, etc. - add up to even more, and typically sponsors still don't pay enough for you to end up in the black.

I for one am actually glad that GT6 doesn't pay a crap-ton of money to win races. It forces you to be very metered and thoughtful about your purchases, especially early on. It's more realistic that way.
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The problem with this way of thinking is that the career mode is crap and PD show no interest in improving it. Online (open lobbies and the seasonals) is the valuable part of GT now, so you need to be able to build a good garage quickly to be competitive.

GT4 was so good because PD didn't have to rely on the Online to make up for a crap base game... and the AI still sucked. Stuff like the grind and used car dealerships made sense for those games... not for GT6.

PD needs to be looking at GT as more of a sim than a game in its current form, and that means cars should be available to drive from the start.
 
TeamCZRRacing
I think they're more realistic, sure. This is something all racing games get wrong: in real racing, you usually don't gain money, you lose it. Especially in amateur racing, you'll end up winning only a very small fraction of the money you spend maintaining and improving the car. In Saturday night short-track racing, for instance, you might wind up only winning $1,000 on a season while your expenses can (and frequently do) end up totaling over $15,000. Even internationally renowned series like the NASCAR Sprint Cup series aren't immune to this: Jimmie Johnson earned $20 million last year. Guess how much the championship pays? $7.5 million. That means that, on winnings alone, the team would have to win several races just to pay off Jimmie's salary alone. The other expenses - crew salary, R&D, shop expenses, etc. - add up to even more, and typically sponsors still don't pay enough for you to end up in the black.

I for one am actually glad that GT6 doesn't pay a crap-ton of money to win races. It forces you to be very metered and thoughtful about your purchases, especially early on. It's more realistic that way.
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In real-life, you can win a series championship every year for several years yet never have enough money to buy into another, not without sponsorships.

Which means, yes, I wouldn't mind having a Pagani Zonda with a big Virgin vinyl plastered all over the side, if that's what it takes for me not to have to spend a million credits for one.
 
TeamCZRRacing
I think they're more realistic, sure. This is something all racing games get wrong: in real racing, you usually don't gain money, you lose it. Especially in amateur racing, you'll end up winning only a very small fraction of the money you spend maintaining and improving the car. In Saturday night short-track racing, for instance, you might wind up only winning $1,000 on a season while your expenses can (and frequently do) end up totaling over $15,000. Even internationally renowned series like the NASCAR Sprint Cup series aren't immune to this: Jimmie Johnson earned $20 million last year. Guess how much the championship pays? $7.5 million. That means that, on winnings alone, the team would have to win several races just to pay off Jimmie's salary alone. The other expenses - crew salary, R&D, shop expenses, etc. - add up to even more, and typically sponsors still don't pay enough for you to end up in the black.
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If only GT replicated the external incomes as well as the internal ones.

It's all very well to say that GT duplicates the sorts of in race incomes that real racers have, but when those real racers support themselves with sponsors and advertising that players don't have access to it's not tough to see why people think that the economy isn't working. Because it isn't.

An economy isn't something you can copy part of it and say "that's good enough". It needs to be a whole system. If GT wants to have races give out small amounts of cash like real life, great. In that case the rest of the system needs to be designed to support that. If they're not going to duplicate the entirety of the real experience with sponsors and advertising and the rest of it (and I could see why not, it's pretty complex) then they at least need to modify their system so that the income comes from somewhere.

===========

Personally, I think their prizes are more or less fine, but the problem lies in the prices of the cars and upgrades. The gap between cheapest and most expensive is just far too high, meaning that no matter what the income is some content is either unachievable or trivial.

I think they'd have a lot easier time balancing their economy if they held car prices between 10,000 and 1,000,000. But that's just me.

(They'd also avoid the vast majority of the complaints if you could resell a car for 100% of it's purchase value. If anyone's ever tried a game like that, you end up forming more of an attachment to the cars in your garage if anything, because there's no incentive to keep the crap ones. It's a very pleasurable way of finding which cars you like the most, you're limited to how many cars you can have at once but there's no penalty associated with trying new cars. I know it's a major departure from the Gran Turismo "formula", but it really helps experimentation in a game with 1200+ cars.)
 
I think the credits payout is fine in Gt Mode. The seasonals are also fine. Online payout is very low and should be increased by quite a bit.
 
I currently have no qualms with the payouts in GT6. It's important to note, that while payouts HAVE decreased from GT5 2.0, alot of the more expensive racecars have dropped in pricing, rendering the need for two-million-dollar races obsolete. For example, compare the pricing of various LMP/Group C cars between games.


Personally, if you ask me, the only game I've ever seen get the sort of economy right is GRID. You're looking at several million to be competitive in LMP1 at the 24Hrs of Le Mans, and you won't make a fraction of what it costed to buy the LMP cars, nearly ALL of your money will be made through sponsorships.
 
"Getting credits in GT4 was fairly easy"

Are you for real? Also, are we still arguing about microtransactions?

Sure, getting credits in GT6 is bit harder than GT5. Even then its all because of the infamous hacking that bumped the credits. Then people get used to it.

Also, i bet when GT6 has GT4 style of credits, people will blow up rage about microtransactions even more.
 
Imari
I think they'd have a lot easier time balancing their economy if they held car prices between 10,000 and 1,000,000. But that's just me.
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It's just me too. Even bringing the cr.20 million cars down to 10 million would be a big help. Grinding bores me to death. If they want to make the big ticket cars hard to obtain, I'd rather see them as prize cars for difficult race series or endurance races (cough cough). I'd probably end up running such races over and over anyway, but at least it would be a challenge rather than auto-pilot.

I don't even see why the whole game economy has to be such a big part of the game at all. What if all players had relatively easy access to all the cars? So what? Does having a bigger garage really make anyone that much more competitive? Are any of the cr.20 million cars really that vital to the game?

I'm just glad that they're pretty much giving us the VGT cars. I'd be missing half of them if I actually had to gold a time trial for every one.
 
yabiggoose
I miss having cars that were only obtainable as prize cars.....
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I completely agree. It made the car feel special. I admired my prize cars more than almost every other car in my garage. Winning the Honda Del So LM still means more to me than buying any other car. Period.
 
I'm ok with payouts/credit system as it is ,but that comes down I play-ed GT6 almost everyday in past year,so some more casual users that do 2-3 h weekly might find themselves grinding for 20 mil cars.Other than that I can't see a problem ,since most cars are cheap and a million can be earned doing few events (combined with 200+bonus) in about 30min , or you can earn about 18 millions in this holiday events.Small payouts ? Hard to believe

PS: I haven't played GT1-4 for almost a decade , but despite having some sentimental thoughts , I'm much convinced that older one's had much more challenging career mode where you really had to spend some credits for upgrades to be even competitive with unrealisticly fast AI,which is not the case with GT6 and payouts were much lower in those iterations ,so I can't think what a uprising that would cause here on GTP if GT6 was anything like that.:)
 
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photonrider
Since I opened this discussion I have made 4M. That includes a trip to the neighbours as well as having lunch with my gamer-sons.
I took a stock Celica 2000GT-R to the beginners to try it out. My skills+car made me equal to the Rabbit Gibson in the Elise. Ended up doing the race over and over - won 8 times lost 2. All the races were pretty hair-raising. Gibson is a mad-hatter. Done researching him I headed to the Intermediates to tussle with Gasparini. Stock 500 PP R390 GT1 road car was too much for him. Went back at 475 PP and found his lap times and mine were equalized. Did a whole bunch of races with him, barely winning at the line. He's a raging lunatic - hates to lose.
Came back to earth to find a load of credits in the bank.
Considering I spent the 12M I made yesterday and was broke this made me happy.
I need money for bling. You know . . . paint, fancy wheels, car washes . . . :D
Money is a little easier to grind out this time. Or should I be saying a lot more fun?

If a player did all the Holiday Seasonal events and golded every one they would end up with 10 M. That's a lot of credits that can be made in a day.

If one can actually 'gold' every event. :lol:

Well . . . now to fight with David, the 'expert'; back to the console.

:cheers:
Great responses, thank you, keep 'em coming - the more we know . . ..
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👍
That's another element - how you play the game. Grinding for grinding's sake is dull and tedious for me. So I decided to see how many cars I can win with at the 20 miles of Willow event - I refined my poor tuning skills, got to understand the importance of weight distribution and suspension settings on tire wear even more. And skills in slow-in-fast-out with hypercars on SM/SH tires on what now turns out to be an epic race track. Plus a sack load of credits!

I did the same with LMPs at 20mins of Sarthe and GT3s at 20mins of Nurb. You don't always win but you always learn:tup:
 

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