Is it just a matter of time until GT gets the F1 licence, or will it never happen?

  • Thread starter Thread starter BigMackAttack
  • 155 comments
  • 7,971 views

Will GT ever get the full F1 licence, and do you want it to happen?

  • It will happen, and I want it to happen.

    Votes: 54 28.9%

  • It will happen, but I don't want it to happen.

    Votes: 5 2.7%

  • It will never happen, but I want it to happen.

    Votes: 89 47.6%

  • It will never happen, and I don't want it to happen.

    Votes: 39 20.9%
  • Total voters
    187
t.o.
That's like asking "is it just a matter of time until GT gets the Porsche license" and not expecting a debate about Forza 3 not to pop up.
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There's a saying that I adhere to in all aspects of life, "some things are better left unsaid"
 
SS_1182...don't let the comments stop you. F1 is a pretty good implementation...not perfect, but still worth the money IMHO.

Overall this was a pretty good year for racing.

GT5 is good, F1 is good, and NFS HP is just loads of fun (it's not a sim, doesn't try to be).

Shift 2 looks to be a winner and apparently will be released in Q1 (according to my pre-order update from Amazon).


I would like to see an F1 game that had a couple of different eras available.
 
Stephen220378
I've no doubt we could probably enlighten each other with facts, figures and statistics. When it all comes down to reality though, Sony, as the parent company has complete control over what happens, subsidiaries that are formed are merely a way of delegating certain aspects and interests of a business to a dedicated management company. Money plays a part, as you pointed out earlier, but essentially the money belongs to the parent company.
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Well we could get into a debate about subsidized assets, but this is not the place for that. You're right in that all funding goes through the head office, but the main fund pool from PD games is the figures which PD has to play with. AFAIK they retain their own profit margin as a subsidiary, the rest of the money is borrowed from the parent company....

Mind you they probably had to write alot of requisition forms to SCE for the other 60 or 70 million dollars, but the point is that Sony does not pay for EVERY aspect of the company being a subsidy despite being the parent. To get into the details or why, how, business management, and throwing around words like 'assets' 'shareholder' 'stock' 'liquidation' 'licenser' 'licensee' and the aforementioned 'subsidy/subsidiary' 'profit margin' ect. This is a thread about the F1 license and "What If's"


JGW
SS_1182...don't let the comments stop you. F1 is a pretty good implementation...not perfect, but still worth the money IMHO.

Overall this was a pretty good year for racing.

GT5 is good, F1 is good, and NFS HP is just loads of fun (it's not a sim, doesn't try to be).

Shift 2 looks to be a winner and apparently will be released in Q1 (according to my pre-order update from Amazon).


I would like to see an F1 game that had a couple of different eras available.
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Shift 2 looks like Shift 1 to me. F12010 is the extreme opposite of "Good", it took three PC patches or so, and the entire PC modding community for codemasters games to make the thing even PLAYABLE for me. And still the AI Qual laps are ridiculous when at race pace their like +15 seconds slower on Legend then a Virgin and +20-25 seconds slower then my Redbull.

There is an F1 game with a number of era's availible already, and it was released over a decade ago. GPL. It has mods that have cars from the beginning of F1 to Today.
 
Stephen220378
Look, you've already proved before that you really know nothing about F1 or video games that represent F1, this equally dumb post just clarifies this fact even more so. So do yourself and everyone else who reads this thread a favour and just give up. Have you ever heard the saying, when you're in a hole, stop digging?
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need for speeder!

Stop Lying
 
Enzo309
need for speeder!

Stop Lying
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When the time finally arrives, maybe when you become a teenager? Idk, the day you actually manage to string a sentence together that firstly, makes sense and secondly, has a valid point worthy of debating then that will be the day I'll show an interest in starting a civilized discussion with you. Until that day arrives, please stop making a fool of yourself.
 
alonsof1fan91
You still don`t get me. I have no problems with driving F1 cars in GT5, I love it. Few days ago, I raced my F2007 portet from GTPSP 100 laps around Suzuka because it feels good. I got no money, no XP, no leaderbord competition, but it still made fun.

I just don`t want that PD makes the new F1 dedicated games. CM is doing there job great, it was their first try! Even with AI you can have alot of great races, the physics are pretty challenging if you turn all assists off (like real f1), online racing is alot of fun and -maybe the most important aspect of a f1 game- the presentation is great. The engine sounds are much better then GT5, the cockpit view makes everything much more entertaining, the enviroment graphics aren`t that good but the tracks are much more detailed (bumps!). Just drive around Monaco in F12010 and GT5... I hope you will get what I mean, in GT5 the track seems to be too smooth.
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the presentation of codemaster f1 2010 is quite awesome , I do have the game but I was disappointed on the simulation but I dont really say anything bad about it but for people to say the F10 in GT5 is crap that makes me say something about it I mean if you don't have a real motivation like an F1 driver does then you won't be going past a yard stick without crashing you need to understand that it isn't a play and go those F1's require the best motivation as possible well all I can tell is F1 2010 has great presentation but not the simulation , it is enjoyable yes but to say that GT5's F1 is unreal because you cant drive it and thats because your not motivated enough like a real F1 driver if you want to drive a realistic F1 car then you have to be motivated enough I mean its simulation is made by Red Bull Racing and Vettel
Part of the 5 years they made GT5 is the exact real bumps in the real tracks like what they did in both Nurburgring GP / Nord they went there and copied every detail of bump so its pretty much the closest tarmac wise, but I can tell you it isn't very bumpy on the F2007
 
Stephen220378
When the time finally arrives, maybe when you become a teenager? Idk, the day you actually manage to string a sentence together that firstly, makes sense and secondly, has a valid point worthy of debating then that will be the day I'll show an interest in starting a civilized discussion with you. Until that day arrives, please stop making a fool of yourself.
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I know your lying! Stop Lying!
 
Shinzah
Shift 2 looks like Shift 1 to me. F12010 is the extreme opposite of "Good", it took three PC patches or so, and the entire PC modding community for codemasters games to make the thing even PLAYABLE for me. And still the AI Qual laps are ridiculous when at race pace their like +15 seconds slower on Legend then a Virgin and +20-25 seconds slower then my Redbull.

There is an F1 game with a number of era's availible already, and it was released over a decade ago. GPL. It has mods that have cars from the beginning of F1 to Today.
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I liked and hated Shift. The idea was cool, the presentation was cool. The focus on outright violence, not so cool. You can't beat that game without being a driver so dirty you'd be banned from racing forever. Shift 2 has the FIA GT license, so my hope is that the game will tone down the violence, however considering the promo video is 85% a Porsche getting rolled over and blowing to bits, I have my doubts.

The main problem that these games are guilty of (GT5 included although not anywhere near as bad) is they contrive to create excitement, where in Racing in real life, 85% of races are almost parades. Some series with really good parity formulas like SPEED World Challenge get exciting, but honestly how exciting was F1 up until this year. Yes many races this year were exciting, but some were as boring as the Schumacher era. And some of the excitement is that a big name like Lewis Hamilton or Mark Webber are crashing losing out the championship, its just not the same in a game.

Games are contrived a bit to try and create this excitement, Shift definitely has it, the rubberbanding in that game is insane, I haven't played F1 2010 but it sounds like that has it too. And while games that don't do that are awesome (good example with GPL, also World Circuit was like this, and the old Papyrus IndyCar games), the general public dismisses them as boring. Mainly because every race is not ending in a win by 0.02 seconds.
 
Tommy_861
I liked and hated Shift. The idea was cool, the presentation was cool. The focus on outright violence, not so cool. You can't beat that game without being a driver so dirty you'd be banned from racing forever. Shift 2 has the FIA GT license, so my hope is that the game will tone down the violence, however considering the promo video is 85% a Porsche getting rolled over and blowing to bits, I have my doubts.
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If Shift 2 decides to compete directly with GTR3, then we have a game. If Shift 2 decides to compete with any and all of EA's other racing franchises, then we have more garbage.

The concept of Shift was good, but its still just a ricer nfs on race tracks. Plus the Works kits are obscene, horrible, car ruining, abominations.

The main problem that these games are guilty of (GT5 included although not anywhere near as bad) is they contrive to create excitement, where in Racing in real life, 85% of races are almost parades. Some series with really good parity formulas like SPEED World Challenge get exciting, but honestly how exciting was F1 up until this year. Yes many races this year were exciting, but some were as boring as the Schumacher era. And some of the excitement is that a big name like Lewis Hamilton or Mark Webber are crashing losing out the championship, its just not the same in a game.
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I agree entirely. But the best excitement in racing comes from human opponents and never AI. There are many online racing series that can create just as good excitement as a real live televised race. Speaking of which, man I miss Sim500....

Games are contrived a bit to try and create this excitement, Shift definitely has it, the rubberbanding in that game is insane, I haven't played F1 2010 but it sounds like that has it too. And while games that don't do that are awesome (good example with GPL, also World Circuit was like this, and the old Papyrus IndyCar games), the general public dismisses them as boring. Mainly because every race is not ending in a win by 0.02 seconds.
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F1 2010 has rubberbanding but you can mod it off, the problem is that the game has both rubberbanding and FAKE times. It fakes AI lap times entirely. And still has this unforgivable bug where backmarker AI cars for some reason or another can forgo pitting in anything below an 80% full race.

Personally I like close finishes, but I'll take a drawn out mileage and strategy race over a close finish any day. At Petite last year I believe Corvette got their first win when a Ferrari ran out of fuel on the home stretch. Probably one of the most brilliant GT finishes of the season.
 
And after all that being said I still had a ton of fun with the game. Like this one race I had with the AI where a few of them wiped out right in front of me and I had to have hellified reflexes just to avoid the carnage, had to take a quick trip on the grass just to save my as.. .uh you know what I mean ;) . Unfortunately it probably shook me up for the entirety of the race as I couldn't get in a groove for anything and was racing pretty bad. lol



EDIT: I personally just don't get this attitude where you MUST own one racing or any type of game and all other games are the devil. NONE and I mean NONE of these games are perfect, fool proof legends on disc. You can find fault with each and every one of them but you can find some great fun with the vast majority of them also. Since I'm in the "fun" business I'll try them all if they interest me. If it doesn't interest you then fine. Keep it moving. The Need For Speeds don't interest me so search here as much as you like but you will see no comments from me about them. I don't need to rag on it to make me feel better about buying GT5. I bought GT5 cause I wanted to, same with F1 2010 and FM3. They all gave me a ton of enjoyment and some disappointments, ALL of them but all in all I'm having fun with them all and they're the ones I comment on so as they get better.
 
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Perhaps someone with more knowledge can fill me on on this, but why cant the F1 "people" grant a license to more than one company? I mean I see the same models of cars in multiple games so why not the overall racing leagues?

Personally I love both f12010 and gt5 for different reasons.
 
jugglingj0hn
Perhaps someone with more knowledge can fill me on on this, but why cant the F1 "people" grant a license to more than one company? I mean I see the same models of cars in multiple games so why not the overall racing leagues?

Personally I love both f12010 and gt5 for different reasons.
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Its not solely an F1 problem.F1 could theoretically grant a license to every developer. However if a developer comes along and demands sole development of a game for the franchise, F1 will take the more lucrative deal. The single deals on 2 to 5 year contracts are more lucrative then multiple one-off deals.

For example, Codies probably offered up to the table a large sum of money for the license, and then offered maybe a 10 or 15% royalty to F1 on top of it so long as they are the sole developer through two years, with potential for a contract extension.

Other companies probably proposed a much lesser sum with less percentage of royalties for a one off deal. F1 would go with the developer who gives them the better business. Also, alot of market research goes into the decision making process.

In the case of the NASCAR franchise, the opposite happened. EA made garbage games, which brought the credibility of the franchise down, and then they dumped the franchise in their final year of contract. PD probably paid next to nothing to use the NASCAR name, considering Eutechnyx managed to secure the license for a poor looking EA game clone that will be console only.
 
Some sporting series only work in single party licencing regardless of what deals they have, as well. Formula 1 may be one of them (though they didn't use to be, they might be now).
 
jugglingj0hn
Perhaps someone with more knowledge can fill me on on this, but why cant the F1 "people" grant a license to more than one company? I mean I see the same models of cars in multiple games so why not the overall racing leagues?

Personally I love both f12010 and gt5 for different reasons.
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From what I've read that's just the way F1 wanted it. Had nothing to do with Codemasters demanding exclusivity. F1 wanted to pull an NFL move and just give the bid to one company this time around. Codie just probably had the best presentation and the cash that impressed F1. And to Codies credit they really wanted to keep developing the game but since they have the license for 2010, 2011 and 2012 they couldn't waste a year since they already paid for it. Purportedly they want the games to come out at the beginning of each season but kept 2010 way past the season to give it more development time. Hopefully 2011 comes on time, and done.
 
Shinzah
Its not solely an F1 problem.F1 could theoretically grant a license to every developer. However if a developer comes along and demands sole development of a game for the franchise, F1 will take the more lucrative deal. The single deals on 2 to 5 year contracts are more lucrative then multiple one-off deals.

For example, Codies probably offered up to the table a large sum of money for the license, and then offered maybe a 10 or 15% royalty to F1 on top of it so long as they are the sole developer through two years, with potential for a contract extension.

Other companies probably proposed a much lesser sum with less percentage of royalties for a one off deal. F1 would go with the developer who gives them the better business. Also, alot of market research goes into the decision making process.

In the case of the NASCAR franchise, the opposite happened. EA made garbage games, which brought the credibility of the franchise down, and then they dumped the franchise in their final year of contract. PD probably paid next to nothing to use the NASCAR name, considering Eutechnyx managed to secure the license for a poor looking EA game clone that will be console only.
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I love the use of the word "theoretically". In real terms it means "yeah, but not in my lifetime"
 
Shinzah
Yep. Can't have a half empty glass, the laws of physics won't allow it.

The correct statement is also half FILLED. :D
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Lmao come over here and say that in a pub full of Scots! It's a called a regional accent, i.e Scottish people have different patter tae they english poofs, ye ken?
 
Shinzah
well it COULD happen. ;)

It never will...but it could happen...
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Hey guys, allow me to interject here as I have been in the game industry for 18 years and have been in top tear management roles and still am. You both have intelligent observations but the simplest fact is its really not that complicated.

PD has a budget, that budget is based on forecasted sales, those budgets fluctuate based on actual sales.

NOTHING is free. The only advantage a subsidy gets is some absorbed over head expenses and the support (not hand outs) of a larger companies "operational advantages, IP, and existing licenses"...

I continue to read business arguments on game forums and some are quite fascinating... if for no other reason than how much thought goes into them but the real facts are quite simple... A team, subsidy or not, gets a budget, they deliver on that budget, sometimes they are late... all that happens is one of three things; Scope back, leverage the forcasted sales to justify the lateness and just absorb the continued operating expense, or scope back and push the product out... if the lateness is caught early and drastically effects the forecasts then its killed...

Ever notice how games are not nearly as late as they where 10 years ago? Out side of the select few... Thats because there are SO many more of them and all competing with themselves... the days of 1 or 2 big quarterly releases are gone... we are now getting a handful of big budget games a month...

Back on topic, anyone thinking about F1 2010 should not try and get a feeling for it here, got to codemasters forum, its a good forum full of both the real good and bad. The only people I have seen absolutely hate it are die hard F1 fans... You can read their reasons over there but bear in mind not even die hard Starwars fans can be appeased and there have been some great Starwars games...

And on to the REAL topic... PD will never do a specific license, its not at all in their vision... They are about braud appeal... So I wouldn't worry about it.

Another funny argument is the claim that Ferrari "OWNS" F1 as they are the biggest team and bring in the most money... this is highly debatable but why is there only Ferrari F1 cars in GT5? Red Bull has a presence, why not their real cars? Fun food for thought...
 
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Thanks for your input Lawndart :D, one of the better posts so far

By the way, If you're ever looking for a QA tester or any kind of Clerical worker, I work cheap, am willing to relocate, and am a quick learner 👍
 
Stephen220378
If they put the Tyrrell P34 'six wheeler', the Brabham BT46b 'fan car', a Lotus 79 and Ayrton Senna's McLaren MP4/4 in GT, I'd never critisize PD ever again.

Oh and the Brawn BGP001 because I loved the cars colours and lack of too many sponsors.
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Is that tha black coffin Lotus?
 
God let's hope not. After what they did (or didn't do) do with the WRC and NASCAR licences, I think its best if they left it alone.

Besides, Codemasters are doing an excellent job
 
Maybe PD should just concentrate on what they do best (which is apparently making Skyline simulations) ;)

CM is doing a great job with F1....let's see what the 2011 edition has to offer.
 

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