Is it ok to sandwich someone against a wall?

[YouichiHophop]

It depends. he can use the full track forcing the other person off.

No ! Pushing another person off the track is never ok, full stop.

It makes no difference if its onto grass or against a wall, you give the other person a car width for their car, if they are alongside.

 

[Griffith500]

In the general case, no. I will, if I think someone has cleanly and legitimately got the legs on me, allow them to pass (not necessarily too easily). Like Spagetti said, it's up to them to get the drag on me by working the corners properly.

This opens up other questions, though, e.g. is it allowed to slow down more than necessary onto the apex of a corner, to prevent the following car from capitalising on a slow-in, fast-out slingshot? I'd say: yes, unless you cause them to hit you

One of my favourite's is to entice people into a late braking maneuvre up the inside, but I brake earlier, let them fly past as I take the inside line they leave open by running too hot. That's fair, right?

If I trust who I'm racing against, I'm not averse to a bit of rubbin', so to say, but only so long as I don't cause a loss of control on their part. I tend to slow down and wait if that happens anyway.

 

[the_1way_ticket]

it's a b*tch move IMO. It's much more satisfying winning clean than winning dirty.

 

[jaysvw]

It's a horrible habit of mine that I've had since playing GT3 at about 6 or 7 years old - I don't think it's right, yet when I'm put in a position where if I don't do it, I won't win, I knock them into the wall... this is why I don't play online though, I wouldn't like to ruin someone else's race.

At least you are man enough to admit it. I've raced with some GTP members who on this very forum have posted claiming to be "squeaky clean" racers, yet in online races they are punting, e-brake turning, using illegal parts of the track and wall trapping just like everyone else. That's why you should either host the room yourself or only race with friends.

 

[vikonic123]

It depends on what's at stake.

IRL if a guy knows this could mean won or lost championship or a good position, I'm sure he will pull off some dirty racing, not necessarily slamming into opponents, but basically whatever he can get away with.

However, in game, I could care less. Clean racing only.

 

[Lizard]

Ok lets settle this.
My understanding is it fine as long as you dont touch them then they either back off go on the grass or stay where they are.

 

[Supercheyenne]

Against AI = Yes (anything to win)

Against real person = No (I can handle someone being better than me)

 

[witham]

Ask Rubens Barrichello what he thinks.

 

[Akmuq]

No ! Pushing another person off the track is never ok, full stop.

It makes no difference if its onto grass or against a wall, you give the other person a car width for their car, if they are alongside.

That's a perfectly ligitimate move. Watch some actual racing sometime.💡

 

[parabulla]

My humble opinion is that in order for there to be a sandwich, then both drivers have to be fairly even with each other (side by side). Otherwise, you're just taking someone's line because you got ahead of them, and that's just racing. So no, I do not think a sandwich is fair game, but it does make a great snack!

 

[Griffith500]

Ok lets settle this.
My understanding is it fine as long as you dont touch them then they either back off go on the grass or stay where they are.

Go on the grass? That's not the racetrack, though is it? Track position is everything, so you oughtn't be stealing it from people like that. If you move over on someone who then runs out of track, you're in the wrong.

And about the video above, it's a little bit cheeky of Liuzzi forcing the other car onto the wet rumble strip so he gets less traction out of the first corner of that chicane - Alonso was merely (perhaps overly) reciprocating the kindness in the second part
Do that online and you're likely to piss someone off so much that they'll just punt you out of the next corner, though!

 

[Acumen]

Actually there could be pages written about the unwritten rules of racing. As a race official for the Sports Car Club of America i'll try to boil it down to basic points, and these are somewhat my opinion but I believe they are accepted.

If a driver is under threat of overtake on a straight, they may alter their line to push the overtaking driver to the edge of the circuit but not off the circuit. The intent of this is to force the overtaking driver to have to travel a longer distance in order to complete the pass, and if they are still side by side going into the next turn, the overtaking driver will be compromised with a shallow entry allowing the overtaken driver to enter on a more normal racing line and attempt to use that to get back underneath and re-pass exiting the corner.

Now, if a pass is being attempted around the outside of the corner in pro racing, unless the overtaking driver is still very much alongside on the corner's exit, the overtaking driver must be aware that if he's too far back and out of the periphrial view of the other driver, the other driver is going to own the exit of the corner and will use up all the room, and the overtaking driver must either back off and try again or risk being run off the circuit. In club racing where budgets are smaller you'll sometimes see respect being paid and the driver on the inside will often leave enough room for the overtaking driver.

The main thing to remember is that you want to be sportingly defensive of your position, but there comes a point where you are either going to be passed or you will cause a crash. If so, best thing to do is go back to your normal line, and draft the car that just passed and look for a way back by.

 

[IceMan PJN]

Is it ok to sandwich someone against a wall?

this was done to me as I was trying to pass for the finish line on the rome circuit. I thought it was kind a dirty. But I remembered seeing it in done in RL by the pro's

1) No, it's not okay. It's a tactic employed by drivers of less skill and with absolutely no respect for the sport or for other drivers, and it's an insult to race fans. I would imagine that the prevailing opinion among motorsports fans is that racing should be about you outdriving someone fair and square, and not by being the biggest jerk on the track.

2) What "pros" do this? NASCAR? That's like Racing for Dummies. I would imagine such a move in at least the series I watch would likely land the driver a penalty of some kind.

Michael Schumacher gets away with it...

I myself wouldnt do it for a win.

I was going to make a Schumacher reference. I guess he has a tendency towards the opinion that if you can't beat them, cheat them.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgWMec_MmMM

Schumacher got a penalization for this, it's not a clean manouver.

And that's the example I was looking to right there. Excellent, classic example of poor sportsmanship and a penalty for it. In case it hasn't been noted in following posts (I only read the first handful of replies), Schumacher was given a ten grid spot penalty for this for the start of the next race in Belgium.

 

[Acumen]

The pros will run people off, but that doesn't make it okay. Both drivers here were penalized.

Well, they were both put on probation but the result stood due to the 'eye for an eye' nature of the incident. Magnussen bumped Bergmeister loosening him up, then used that advantage to go for the win. The race had been clean but in the last corner contact had occurred which would have cost Bergmeister the win, so Bergmeister was compelled to rough Magnussen up to defend his position.

 

[Griffith500]

Actually there could be pages written about the unwritten rules of racing. As a race official for the Sports Car Club of America i'll try to boil it down to basic points, and these are somewhat my opinion but I believe they are accepted.

If a driver is under threat of overtake on a straight, they may alter their line to push the overtaking driver to the edge of the circuit but not off the circuit. The intent of this is to force the overtaking driver to have to travel a longer distance in order to complete the pass, and if they are still side by side going into the next turn, the overtaking driver will be compromised with a shallow entry allowing the overtaken driver to enter on a more normal racing line and attempt to use that to get back underneath and re-pass exiting the corner.

Now, if a pass is being attempted around the outside of the corner in pro racing, unless the overtaking driver is still very much alongside on the corner's exit, the overtaking driver must be aware that if he's too far back and out of the periphrial view of the other driver, the other driver is going to own the exit of the corner and will use up all the room, and the overtaking driver must either back off and try again or risk being run off the circuit. In club racing where budgets are smaller you'll sometimes see respect being paid and the driver on the inside will often leave enough room for the overtaking driver.

The main thing to remember is that you want to be sportingly defensive of your position, but there comes a point where you are either going to be passed or you will cause a crash. If so, best thing to do is go back to your normal line, and draft the car that just passed and look for a way back by.

That all seems exceptionally fair-minded 👍

I guess people forget about responsibility for each other sometimes. The point about peripheral vision is very important, too.


That Schumacher / Barrichello clip makes me cringe everytime!

 

[Supercheyenne]

Well, they were both put on probation but the result stood due to the 'eye for an eye' nature of the incident. Magnussen bumped Bergmeister loosening him up, then used that advantage to go for the win. The race had been clean but in the last corner contact had occurred which would have cost Bergmeister the win, so Bergmeister was compelled to rough Magnussen up to defend his position.

This is a huge black eye for ALMS though. It's one thing to punt a guy in a corner (penalize him if need be) but it's an entirely different thing to wreck a guy at speed. People die from stuff like that.

IF ALMS had a clear penalty system then that likely wouldn't have happened, and if it did Bergmeister would have let him go knowing he would be declared the winner. Unfortunately it will take a death before anyone at ALMS "gets it".

Love the series, hate the nature of the officiating.

 

[GTlondoner]

teach them a lesson
i find bad racers drive dirty cause they cant drive clean and win
good drivers can do both and take an unfair hit and catch up

i'll give someone 4 - 5 chances before i decide if they are really trying to be dirty then teach them a lesson
even draft right up behind them and pressure them into making their own mistakes
i love being a stalker ( on the track i mean )

 

[demonbug]

My understanding has been that if the front wheels of the overtaking car are even or ahead of the rear wheels of the leading car, then the overtaking car has position and the leading car must leave space for them. If not, the leading car is free to force the overtaker to slow down by shutting down their line/pushing them to the edge of the track (assuming the overtaking car isn't clearly faster).

This goes with the idea of peripheral vision, as the overtaker needs to be aware that the leading driver may or may not be able to see them - and in the heat of the moment it is not always possible to tell if the overtaking car has position or not. If the front axle is even with the rear axle of the car being overtaken, this usually means the front of the overtaking car should be visible in the peripheral vision of the leading driver.

That said, unless it is an AI opponent I think you should show fellow drivers some respect, and refrain from cutting them off unless you are clearly ahead (though you should never swing wildly across the track, as I sometimes do against AI opponenst when their cars are faster .

 

[YouichiHophop]

That's a perfectly ligitimate move. Watch some actual racing sometime.💡

I was watching actual racing before you were born sonny.

Arguably the greatest dice of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA

No blocking, or attempting to run anyone off the track here, hard but fair.

 

[benmc]

Personally I think it's fine to push someone close to the edge of the track, whether there is a wall or run off there, as long as you leave a car width of room it's fine. There comes a time when you stop moving towards the other car, Schumacher overstepped that line against Barrichello.

Blatantly squeezing someone into the wall like Bergmeister did to Magnussen in that Laguna clip is just plain wrong. If that'd happened in Europe I'm sure they'd get banned for several races.

I've got the utmost respect for NASCAR as a series but their rules on blocking are just plain dangerous. Yes, if you make contact with another car when it's 50/50 as to who will get the corner, or you just accidentally scrape another car, then that's fine, that sort of rubbing is racing. But if you intentionally move your car to hit a rival or force them off the track when blocking, that's insane.

 

[chimuel]

You should watch Top Gear's Ayrton Senna tribute.

 

[mini_roofer_S]

No. None of that stuff is cool, unless it's accidental which happens. This is a racing game not some lame need for speed game. Play clean when your online. I can't stand when idiots smash into me to get ahead. When I play online I'm always checking my rear view to see who's behind me, if the car behind me is clearly alot faster I move to the side and let them pass.

You get soooo much more enjoyment out of online races when everyone is racing clean.

 

[Acumen]

This is a huge black eye for ALMS though. It's one thing to punt a guy in a corner (penalize him if need be) but it's an entirely different thing to wreck a guy at speed. People die from stuff like that.

IF ALMS had a clear penalty system then that likely wouldn't have happened, and if it did Bergmeister would have let him go knowing he would be declared the winner. Unfortunately it will take a death before anyone at ALMS "gets it".

Love the series, hate the nature of the officiating.

Actually, a year on I noticed something I've never seen before. Magnussen in fact never scraped his left side against the pit wall. I assumed that Bergmeister pushed him all the way and sandwiched him but it now looks to me that Magnussen actually tried to cross the front of the Porsche to seal the victory, and the brake lights of the Porsche are indication of Bergmeisters' surprise at this.

 

[Grayfox]

Remember what Michael Schumacher did at the 2010 Hungarian Grand Prix to Rubens Barrichello?

so no

 

[Sum1s2pid]

I wouldn't want to have to resort to sandwiching another player up against the wall in order to win. If I'm not fast enough to hold on to the lead at the finish, I wasn't fast enough to deserve the win.

Don't pullover and let the person pass... make them pass you... but don't put them into a wall, either. Clean side-by-side finishes make for more awesome replays and photos anyway.

 

[SS_1182]

Schumacher got a penalization for this, it's not a clean manouver.
And I wonder why PD refuse to add flag rules into the game. That is a REAL thing for a "Real Driving Simulator" so why don't use it?

Honestly, that didn't look all that intentional. He was already drifting that direction and it's only speculation as to whether he knew he was about to get passed on that side.

 

[SS_1182]

I was watching actual racing before you were born sonny.

Arguably the greatest dice of all time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kl2tIFxSEGA

No blocking, or attempting to run anyone off the track here, hard but fair.

Oh, and THAT... was some awesome hard-nosed racing. Thanks for the 'history' lesson.

 

[grbmrdj]

It's always OK to sandwich someone against a wall.