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Discussion in 'Project CARS 1' started by Biggles, Dec 21, 2015.
You missed black friday, that's how much I paid.
Well that's normal.
But I am waiting for the next sale which the price drops again and stays there.
Edit: Just saw this on the store. 12$ for the game and Upgrade.
I bought it and I am good to go.
On the AI front: I have been driving the Lotus 49 a lot, which maybe emphasizes the problem ... but the first corner issues are terrible! I have tried starting from the back & then gradually making my way to the front, trying to avoid the pile ups at the star of the race, but it's difficult because the bumping & flipping actually occurs for several corners until the field thins out. I then tried starting near the front trying to keep out fof the pile ups by staying in front & then racing the 3 or 4 cars in front of me ... still hard to avoid crashing. Once you get through the first lap, things start to settle down & the AI seems to respond reasonably well - I find I need to drive consistently fast & wait for an opportunity to overtake at the spots where the AI is slow.
just make the AI drive very conservatively through the first few corners, which is what would happen in RL in a crowded field?
got my PS4 last week.
Made the 10 hours Driveclub update.
Now enjoying the game
For Project Cars specifically?
I would say no.
I would suggest buying one whenever you can for more than just one game. There are a few on the way like, Assetto Corsa, Gran Turismo Sport.... and a few already released like, Driveclub which is VERY fun, and the online is rich (though MANY people ram during races.)
I must include Project Cars as well which I bought for $20 USD, but was on sale for $12 on PSN. I love the game, and I was skeptical about it. The career is pretty cool, it really is immersive because you go through the same processes (for the most part) as an real life race car driver. The online I can't speak on much, because I've only done about 3 races so far, which went well. Only down side IMO, is playing with a controller can be difficult, or frustrating because this game is made for wheel setups.
If you bought a PS4 you could get AT LEAST 3 great racing titles for near the price of one new though.
Well finally baught a PS4 and Project Cars Complete Edition from playstation store.
I had been debating abiut waiting and or shelling out the money for PC especially since have a G27. I think that I made the right decision. All I will play is racing games so by end of this year or early next could have 3 titles.
So have had the PS4 and project cars for less than 72 hours. The first days was just trying to get some decent controller settings and trying button configutations. Today have the settings dialed in to at least enjoy some races. Not in any hurry to starr career mode. I am using x for gas and square for break and left stick to steer. At the moment that is working good and with other controller settings cars are stable. Even with the open will and LMP 1 cars. For now some of realism settings are turnes down and A.I difficult is about 50. Just learning the cars and tracks. Great seledtion of tracks and good selection of cars.
If you enjoy racing I would say for sure that it is worth the buy. Comming from the likes of granturismo there is a huge learning curve. So recommend just take it slow and get the settings and controller configuration the way you want (will make a huge difference). Do not know while they could not highlite a required button mapping that you forgot to map...one of the really frusting things about the game. However you will soon figure out which ones are required.
I would say that it is probably more about getting the most out of one race instead of trying to do a dozen races in say a 2 hour time period. With upwards to believe 45 cars on some tracks it will take more than 5 or even 10 laps to settle in and get to the front. Really like most of the driving views.
Summary: Like the challenge of racing and not just passing cars in the first 2 or 3 laps then get it. Like the challenge of actually having to know the track, when and where to pass and so much more. For me see one of my challenges as being able to stay on the back of the A.I car and not slam into them on turns. Sure can break earlier earlier and hang back a little. However makes getting close enough to pass a challenge. Guess that is where really knowing the cqr and track with pay off along with car settings.
Buy it and enjoy. (Sorry for typos, written with tablet).
Just a few comments/questions that I thought I would stick in this thread, as it's not obvious where else to put them.
I stopped playing PCars a few months ago as I was put off by what seemed like the rather Shifty physics. However, I started playing again a few days ago & was forced to re-evaluate. I have mostly been driving the Lotuses, which sound just amazing & are fun & challenging to drive. I also drove the "Yellowbird" a bit. The physics struck me as pretty decent & the FFB is a world away from the sterile experience (not to mention pathetic sounds) of GT. Not sure they really qualify as "sim", but better than I remember - have they "upgraded" the physics in some of the various patches?
The AI at the beginning of the races is abysmal - it's almost impossible to get through the first lap without getting rear-ended or smashed in some other way. So ... I took to starting at the back & then working my way through the field, because as the cars get spaced out they start to drive more reasonably. I was able to win a 12 lap race fairly easily by doing this - on 90% AI setting. This struck me as being too easy - I really didn't have to drive that well to make up lot of ground on the leader.
My Playstation touchstone for AI is still F1CE, which really didn't have very complex AI, but what it did have was cars that, on the Hard setting, drove consistently fast, which obliged you to drive consistently fast to keep in contention - there was no way you could start at the back of the grid & work your way to the front in 12 laps. The way the F1CE AI worked was if you were on the tail of a car it would drive fast, but if you were obviously faster & able to close on a corner the AI car would give you room to pass. While not entirely realistic, this did put the emphasis on your driving & reduced the likelihood of collisions. I always wonder how F1CE managed to implement this while no other PS racing game has managed it?
And yet my opinion of the AI is completely different, I think it's some of the best out there.
I raced at one of the shorter Dubai circuits against 27 AI yesterday (gt3 class), qualified 13th and finished 3rd. Ai behaviour at the start and throughout was amazing and believable, and there was no first lap mayhem or bashing, I didn't get a scratch on my car at race start and even though I made up a few spots into the first corner I was given racing room even though I approached and entered in the middle of a 3 wide battle.
Atm I am completely underwhelmed with what Assetto Corsa and GT Sport have to offer in comparison to PCars, I don't think there is a more complete Tarmac racing experience available on consoles now or in the foreseeable future then PCars. Yesterday's thoroughly enjoyable race experience has been mirrored countless times over the year since launch that I have owned this title. But if Raceroom were to find its way to PS4 I would get rather excited about that!
It's not a matter of opinion ... if you experienced what I was experiencing you couldn't possibly say that. So why is your experience different? I was driving the Lotus 49C - admittedly, the open wheel aspect makes the consequences of collisions much worse (using full damage). Cars were colliding with each other repeatedly on the first lap & careening around the road. If I managed to avoid the cars in front I would frequently get shunted from the rear. This would happen repeatedly, forcing me to restart multiple times, until I gave up starting in the middle of the grid & started from the back. Once the cars got more spaced out, the AI action was fine - certainly better than something like GT. BUT, the ease with which I won (even though I didn't feel I was driving as fast as should be possible) was a bit disappointing.
Can anyone suggest a race set up which would show off the AI at its best? I would be happy to give it a try, as what I am really looking for is an opportunity to race offline in a casual, but challenging way. I am enjoying the graphics dynamic weather/TOD, track selection, sounds & FFB of PCars.
Perhaps I should have written "in my experience" than "in my opinion."
I'm not doubting your opinion ... or your experience, but I'm wondering why it differs from mine. I'll have a try with some other cars & see how it works out. A little bumping between some of the touring cars will no doubt have less drastic consequences, but I would really hope to see the AI driving much more conservatively into the first few corners.
Open wheel AI are much worse than tin top AI, way too agressive for this kind of cars.
It's definitely tougher for open wheel cars. You have to be really conservative and imagine you car is wider than it is. The Formula Rookie is the worst because there's no wings. Without that the wheels got caught up on front/rear collisions and you're most likely done. With the wings they kinda just bump more since it's straight on straight hitting. Formula Gulf 1000 is my favorite of them all, with Formula C and the Lotus Formula Ford in 2nd and 3rd.
Yes - I now see that the problem is particularly with open wheel cars. To make matters worse, I was racing at Monza which has what might be the most problematic first corner in motor racing.
It's possible that the AI does not adjust behaviour according to the type of car being driven - what might just be a little bumping in a "regular" car, results in the car getting launched into the air with the open wheel cars. Unfortunately, rather than playing down this reaction, PCars seems to exaggerate it with cars flipping through the air everywhere. It doesn't seem to help that much to drive conservatively, as this often results in AI cars rear-ending you.
Apart from that, I would agree the AI is pretty decent.
i played GT6 using DFGT mid 2015 and was blown away by the immersion. in october he let me borrow his PS3 + DFGT and played is for a few weeks. Decided then i was gonna get into sim racing. So went out and got a PS4 with G29. Since december have played Pcars and have spent 380 hours in 6 months. Went from a total novice to being in the top 100 regular in the time trial championships. Still about 2-3 seconds of the lap records on most tracks but don't know how to improve any more??.... but the game is so addictive and physics improvements of GT6 that i will keep playing it.
Just looking forward to GT sport and the competing nations cup online. Hope GTS physics is not to easy/dumbed down for the casual market.
IMHO, YES. Suggest grabbing Dirt Rally too, and you'll have a decent console based sim. Assetto Corsa and GT sport will be icing on top.
Pcars physics aint much imo hoping ac isn't delayed again
Excuse me for using this thread to make some general comments - I'm hoping to get more responses from experienced sim/PCars players.
My overall impression is that PCars really isn't very "sim". The graphics, sound, FFB, TOD, weather & basic racing structure are all excellent ... but the physics?! I still get this feeling that it's much too easy to drive really fast. At the limit, the cars dig in & cling to the track with a Shift-like feel. As I've never driven any of these race cars IRL, I can't comment on how realistic this really is, but strongly suspect it isn't. At first, with a new car/track combo the driving feels pretty realistic, thanks partly to the descriptive FFB, but as you increase the speed there comes a point where you feel the car should be getting more twitchy - on the edge of oversteer, or destabilizing weight transfer ... & it doesn't. It just sticks to the track.
The one interesting exception that I've come across so far (I haven't driven all the cars, by any means), is the Ruf Yellowbird, a thrilling mix of understeer, oversteer & a waggly rear end which demands total concentration.
The AI can be quite good, but I've spent a lot of time driving the Lotus 49C & even at 100% most of the AI drivers spend the first lap smashing into each other, spinning & careening off the track as if they've never sat down behind the wheel of this car before. Why model that behaviour? I don't get it.
Project cars physics are very natural. The physics results in the cars behaving in a neutral way. The physics are in fact realistic. There is always room for improvement (like formula 1 team simulator) but then u need big money, and people on Internet forums are broke (cos they hav not got money). For ps4 project cars is real good.
Look here, a cars motion near the edgeof grip is transients for road car and more snappy for high grip/downforce cars.....same as in project cars.
I don't understand what people want but it sure ain't a video game. They not gonna be happy till someone gives them an actual blancpain GT Audi R8 Factory supported drive, then they be tied over untill they supposedly realise something else is not right !!
I´ll leave aside all the stuff that doesn´t work in the game, and just focus on design decisions: what people who complain want is...
- A game without excessive grip levels that cause all cars being 3 seconds faster than in real life.
- A game with merciless damage system instead of a half-assed compromised model. That goes both for crashes and mechanical damage, like transmission damage for poor downshifting.
- A game with manual pitstops (with accurate duration for each class), proper flags and rules implementation.
- A game without silly setup exploits and without broken tyre compounds (like these intermediates that don´t work).
In other words, a game that works, tries to be accurate to the motorsports series that it includes, and doesn´t treat console users like 3rd class gamers that can´t handle defeat and need being babysitted.
Some of that stuff is admittedly hard to get (all compounds working as inteded, no setup exploits). Some of that stuff is easy to get, but all of that fits perfectly in a commercial video game.
PCARS is better than GT6, that I can agree, but it's definitely a step below the proper PC sims. I played PCARS for the first time a friend's place, drove the P1 at California Highway with all aids off and I can attack those corners and undulations like I've played PCARS all my life. Whereas in AC even after driving the P1 many times it still bites me when I did a poor weight transfer or mash the throttle too eager on exit.
PCARS is good for racing, but anyone claiming it's the pinnacle of driving simulation is simply misguided.
PCARS can't be perfect to reality and can't be perfect to everyone's preference. It's a game and gonna have compromises. It's good for first ps4 sim and best one to date. Hopefully as time progresses developers will converge to reality on bug free games. I hope GT sport knocks the ball out of the park and can get iRacing type structured racing to consoles....
There is the Possibility that the PCARS tire grip level that is resulting in 3 sec per lap difference to 2015 blancpain cars would then become 1.5 second difference to the 2016 blancpain GT and be bang on the money in 2017 blancpain GT cars....
Another way what I'm saying is real race car tire grip improves every year by a some margin. If the PCARS GT3 cars were equal in lap times to 2015 blancpain cars, then in 2016 the blancpain GT cars would improve lap times due to tire advancements and PCARS lap times would be off by a second or 2. Abd in 2017 they would be further behind.
Tire grip in reality is improving constantly, there will come a time (2017, or 2018?? ) when the tire grip of the real cars will be equal to the game...
I really think it's number one - the basic physics that is the major concern. The others strike me as "details".
I'm not sure the physics is better than GT6 ... but it is a long time since I played GT6, so I may be wrong. I totally agree with your other comments: it's simply too easy to drive fast in PCars. I will say that the feel of racing in PCars is far superior to GT6: the FFB, the sound, the sense of speed & the basic structure of the game. It is precisely the racing game I had always hoped for on the Playstation (notwithstanding the annoying glitches) ... Bbut, unfortunately with dumbed down physics. I appreciate that this makes racing "fun" for the average player, but it's a bit disappointing for anyone wanting a more challenging sim experience.
I have absolutely NO faith that GTSport will be a decent racing game. I think PD dropped the ball after GT4 - KY's vision remained stubbornly the same through GTPrologue, GT5 & GT6 while other developers moved on.
The physics remain the biggest point of curiosity for me until I get a PS4. Difficulty is independent from realism and authenticity, so now that simulators are more sophisticated than ever and leaving fewer phenomena or mechanical details off the table, it's more challenging to rate them. More details won't make up for a poor tire model or errors (or "assists") in fundamental kinetics, and a game can simulate every possible type of oversteer yet make them too easy/hard to master.
I know from prerelease talk that PCARS was specifically intended to buck the trend of unrealistically-difficult "hardcore" PC sims, and I also know the default setups were crafted with some unrealistic values (including brake strength, tire pressure, and differential settings) to make the game more accessible for newcomers, especially with a controller on PS4/XBone. So PCARS is easier by design on those two counts, in pursuit of realism and yet also to make the game accessible. That adds some confusion to the discussion.
I have never raced cars IRL & in fact have no real interest in doing so. My assumption is, however, that racing cars fast IRL is difficult & requires complex skills - if not, there wouldn't be anything obvious differentiating a bad or inexperienced driver from a pro. Arcade-oriented racers tend to focus on speed & thrills rather than realistic physics, but can still require a lot of skill to master - the skill has less to do with mastering complex physics & more to do with the difficulty of the gameplay.
Another aspect is the difference between road cars & race cars - powerful (in particular) road cars can require a very fine touch to drive fast on a track. Race cars can be "easier" to control due to superior levels of grip, braking, balance etc. However, to race these cars at the limit is (presumably) just as demanding as racing a road car.
PCars has put a lot of work into the details of racing: FFB, sound, weather, TOD etc. This creates more immersive realism than a game like GT6, but at the same time, it does seem that the actual physics have deliberately been "dumbed down" in order to make the game more accessible.
With AC and GTS coming, the question posed by the thread is kind of moot.
I always chuckle when reading about the physics of a racing game.
For me anyway, I'll play any game that is fun.
I've never driven a real racing car so I have no idea what is realistic and what is not, I can only see what the car does and compare it to what I see on TV when watching racing.
And even if I were a professional race driver, what would the point be if a game had the most realistic physics ever, but was no fun to play?
Well, for one thing AC has been long delayed. My impression (having played it briefly on PC) is that AC is much more physics oriented, at the cost of "fun". GTS? Who the hell knows - I'm not holding my breath.
I agree with this - up to a point. I think lots of little boys (& bigger ones) want to be racing car drivers & some of them want a game that is as close to the "real thing", physics-wise, as possible. It's a little different from a game that simply focuses on racing "fun". I'm not that interested in RL motor racing, but I still find myself drawn to games that are more oriented towards simulation.