- 483
- London
holly molly... you are right, is a big difference right there, without HDR hardware to see it properly.
👍👍👍👍👍 It's worth the investment I think.
👍👍👍👍👍 It's worth the investment I think.Is just me or GT Sport looks better with HDR off?
- Thread starter MarkGT007
- 95 comments
- 31,919 views
- 3,177
- St helens, merseyside, England.
- crazybuttocks198
- Crazybuttocks19
Made another comparison this time with hdr off on ps4, TV and phone and the opposite (hdr all on). Note hdr is on on my camera for hdr shots and off for non hdr shots.
Pictures look more refined in HDR and less blurry. Smaller objects have more clarity with hdr on. Focus on the arrow above the car.
Pictures look more refined in HDR and less blurry. Smaller objects have more clarity with hdr on. Focus on the arrow above the car.
I've been expermenting and I got a better HDR quality forcing HDR10 on my TV Settings.. still color looks fantastic with HDR off on any track.. sometimes HDR makes the colors pop less and even the picture looks a little white compared to the fantastic contrast I get in SDR.
It's weird but at least I got better results forcing HDR10 on the X900E.
It's weird but at least I got better results forcing HDR10 on the X900E.
- 3,177
- St helens, merseyside, England.
- crazybuttocks198
- Crazybuttocks19
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Kinda pointless trying to compare pictures on a different screen.
HDR is set right simply increases the brightness range of the tv. However in SDR mode you can let the TV boost that too and increase the contrast unnaturally. Which is what was happening (or still is) when you watch SD content on Netflix on the ps4 pro. Netflix tells the tv it's HDR, tv interprets the brightness range as HDR and you get awfully bright whites and a lot of artificial contrast.
When source and TV are both using it correctly you get brighter highlights and more detail in the dark without messing with the regular range of the picture. You also get more color as the color space used is wider than the standard rec.709 color space. You get to see that special red Kaz is so fond off! (It's lovely)
In HDR you get less bloom, a smaller transition shift when emerging from a tunnel into the light and much better, deeper, view of the road at night time. Tokyo at night is much better visible and the road signs don't white out when hit with head lamps. When the sun is low it looks almost natural as the higher brightness gets pretty close to the real thing without using bloom to simulate it.
Here's a guide to set up the X900E correctly
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900e/settings
For GTS best is HDR peak brightness at +5 If you leave it at +1 you get a grey dull picture. If you set it to +10 you get a lot of white wash in the sky.
HDR is set right simply increases the brightness range of the tv. However in SDR mode you can let the TV boost that too and increase the contrast unnaturally. Which is what was happening (or still is) when you watch SD content on Netflix on the ps4 pro. Netflix tells the tv it's HDR, tv interprets the brightness range as HDR and you get awfully bright whites and a lot of artificial contrast.
When source and TV are both using it correctly you get brighter highlights and more detail in the dark without messing with the regular range of the picture. You also get more color as the color space used is wider than the standard rec.709 color space. You get to see that special red Kaz is so fond off! (It's lovely)
In HDR you get less bloom, a smaller transition shift when emerging from a tunnel into the light and much better, deeper, view of the road at night time. Tokyo at night is much better visible and the road signs don't white out when hit with head lamps. When the sun is low it looks almost natural as the higher brightness gets pretty close to the real thing without using bloom to simulate it.
Here's a guide to set up the X900E correctly
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/x900e/settings
For GTS best is HDR peak brightness at +5 If you leave it at +1 you get a grey dull picture. If you set it to +10 you get a lot of white wash in the sky.
- 113
- United States
So many comments in here leads me to believe you guys don't understand what HDR is. HDR does NOT make an image sharper - that's what resolution (and bit rate) is for. HDR does NOT make your image more saturated, it gives you access to a broader spectrum of colors with increased brightness.
Most TVs out now don't meet the minimum requirements for basic HDR, which is:
This is not even considering Dolby Vision, which requires 4,000 nits and a 12-bit panel. No consumer TV even meets half of the required brightness.
Most TVs out now don't meet the minimum requirements for basic HDR, which is:
- 1,000 Nits (brightness)/540 nits for OLED
- 10-bit panel
- wide color gamut
This is not even considering Dolby Vision, which requires 4,000 nits and a 12-bit panel. No consumer TV even meets half of the required brightness.
I think I understand better now what HDR really is.. but my image was really washed out and dull.. I managed to get a much better contrast/color forcing the HDR10 on my TV settings.
If anyone is having problems with dull or washed out HDR you should try that on your TV if you have this option to manually select HDR10.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
GTS was made for rec.2020 and up to 10,000 nits brightness. Current tvs only make it to 96% or so of DCI-P3 color space, which is only 70% of the full rec.2020 spectrum (which is itself 75% of human color vision. The old rec.709 only covered 35% of the color range we can see!). TVs nowadays don't go beyond 1200 nits peak brightness at the most, so if you set the peak brightness wrong in game it's trying to send a picture for tvs that won't exist for several years at least.
Forcing HDR-10 sounds a weird solution to me, HDR-10 is the only option on that tv. Dolby Vision is still pretty rare and until display tech gets better hard to distinguish from HDR-10. The real difference is HDR-10 uses static meta data while Dolby vision has the ability to optimize each scene for the brightness range in the scene. Enabling HDR is nothing more than telling the tv how to translate the 0-1023 10 bit source brightness range over the available nit range of the tv. HDR-10 is 'dumb' and you have to set the peak brightness yourself hence the setting in GTS, Dolby vision gets the specs from the tv and negotiates the best tone mapping for that particular display for each scene to extract the best detail. However all that only really starts to matter when the brightness range of the tv far exceeds the 10 bit color scale.
You do see more detail in HDR and thus some people feel it is sharper. On a normal display detail gets lost when colors are too close together, black crush at the lower end and white wash at the upper end.
I switch between an old (was great at the time) 1080p tv and the X900E daily and the difference is really night and day. It's a different game.
HDR is just as frustrating to show people how awesome it can be as VR! You have to see it yourself on a working display.
And there's the question how far should you push the tech. I already feel like sun visors would be a good addition to the cars! Perhaps my children's children will have to be taught not to stare directly at the sun on TV!
- 320
- Italy
This thing doesn't look real at all. My tv looks like the HDR photo but is SDR
I had to force HDR10 because I have HLG, HDR10, Disabled and Auto options.
For some reason when I started GT Sport in HDR mode the tv didn't use HDR10.. I had the option on auto and everything was washed out and dull, after I manually selected HDR10 color and contrast was better overall. Much closer to the SDR image but with a more realistic and wide color pallete.
I just saying that people should try forcing the option on the TV settings just to test. Mine was on auto and HDR10 was not working properly on any of my games for what I've tested.
- 113
- United States
Exactly! It also doesn't help that manufacturers are misleading consumers with their loose meaning of HDR. Many of the TVs that cost less than $1,000 don't even have 10-bit panels/wide color gamuts but they will still claim the TV is HDR.
This is strange but I've heard about this a few times. Are you using the HDMI cable that came with your PS4 Pro?
- 759
- France
On my HDR TV it looks amazing and everything is super nice.
However, on my HDR monitor, the colours are greyish and really dull. The GT profile menu has weird horizontal lines going through it and I can’t get rid of it I don’t know why? The colours are so off on it...
However, on my HDR monitor, the colours are greyish and really dull. The GT profile menu has weird horizontal lines going through it and I can’t get rid of it I don’t know why? The colours are so off on it...
Yes, the original HDMI cable
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Ahh, perhaps you're in Europe? We don't have HLG here yet, it's a 8 bit version HDR made for broadcast tv so it's compatible with SDR displays as well. You would think a Sony tv would choose the right format for a Sony console....
Hmm now I check I have HLG as an option as well in the settings, wasn't there when I bought the tv. Damn self updating hardware nowadays! I'll check with GTS tonight what the difference is but I assume it has kept the correct one as it saves settings for each input. The ps4 pro even comes up in the menu as a choice when I connect it, pretty neat. The only downside of the 4K HDR tv is that audio goes via HDMI ARC which is limited to Dolby Digital plus encoding and not the 7.1 uncompressed audio I get when connecting directly to my amp. HDMI was supposed to make things easier, yet it only resulted in now having to by a new amp to get 4K HDR pass through!
Edit: I checked on the TV, when I switch it to HLG it indeed looks very poor greyish low contrast. Odd that auto gets it wrong on your tv.
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- 113
- United States
Well if your monitor has an IPS panel, it won't look good compared to a TV which has a VA or OLED panel. I'm sure your TV most likely has a VA panel.
IPS panels have poor contrast ratios which means colors are worse, and that's not good for HDR.
That sucks. Is GT the only game this happens to?
I forced HDR10 on the TV settings and looks much better.. for some reason auto was not selecting it.
People with problems should try that.
- 97
- Richmond, Virginia
I work in the industry and hope the following setup tips help. Feel free to disagree or add.
Firstly, make sure your TV can actually display HDR (AKA a 10-bit panel). The X900E can and was THE most popular TV last year for good reason.
Second, set your PS4 Pro (you do have a Pro right?) to 4K YUV420 and wide/expanded color.
Next, ensure the TV is set to wide/expanded color for the input your PS4 is using.
As for picture, I’d generally recommend putting the TV in game mode if possible and turning every enhancement off.
Now for HDR sources only (which is what we are talking about), go to picture settings on the TV, and for most sets, max out the backlight and contrast. A decent way to set brightness (especially on OLED) is to watch a letterbox Blu-ray and turn it up just before the black bars shift from true black to super dark grey... This does not work well on edge-lit LEDs.
Color saturation is harder to set, it is typically set about 3/4, so start there, play something HDR on the PS4 with skin tones, adjust to your liking, and well... That’s basically it.
This should give you a good start. You could search calibrated settings for your TV model. Understand every TV is slightly different and picture will “settle” after break-in. Also HDR settings and non-HDR settings are very different.
Again, I hope this helps someone.
Firstly, make sure your TV can actually display HDR (AKA a 10-bit panel). The X900E can and was THE most popular TV last year for good reason.
Second, set your PS4 Pro (you do have a Pro right?) to 4K YUV420 and wide/expanded color.
Next, ensure the TV is set to wide/expanded color for the input your PS4 is using.
As for picture, I’d generally recommend putting the TV in game mode if possible and turning every enhancement off.
Now for HDR sources only (which is what we are talking about), go to picture settings on the TV, and for most sets, max out the backlight and contrast. A decent way to set brightness (especially on OLED) is to watch a letterbox Blu-ray and turn it up just before the black bars shift from true black to super dark grey... This does not work well on edge-lit LEDs.
Color saturation is harder to set, it is typically set about 3/4, so start there, play something HDR on the PS4 with skin tones, adjust to your liking, and well... That’s basically it.
This should give you a good start. You could search calibrated settings for your TV model. Understand every TV is slightly different and picture will “settle” after break-in. Also HDR settings and non-HDR settings are very different.
Again, I hope this helps someone.
- 1,292
- CZE
- novcze
Part of post I wrote on a different forum but it fits here nicely, so here it goes:
HDR in GTS looks better than SDR only because they choosed to not tone map well into SDR, unfortunatelly I can't get myself to play in HDR, it's too bright for me.
I can demonstrate bad SDR tone mapping in Gran Turismo Sport with simple screenshots taken with PS4 share function which tone map HDR into SDR on system level.
SDR (look at how dark dashboard is)
HDR output tonemapped to SDR by PS4 (dashboard is more visible)
and this is how I would do it to make that detailed dashboard nicely visible (crude MS paint job)
HDR in GTS looks better than SDR only because they choosed to not tone map well into SDR, unfortunatelly I can't get myself to play in HDR, it's too bright for me.
I can demonstrate bad SDR tone mapping in Gran Turismo Sport with simple screenshots taken with PS4 share function which tone map HDR into SDR on system level.
SDR (look at how dark dashboard is)
HDR output tonemapped to SDR by PS4 (dashboard is more visible)
and this is how I would do it to make that detailed dashboard nicely visible (crude MS paint job)
- 832
- Space Coast
- Chevy_Heavy
A lot of good advice in here. I have a Samsung Qled with a PS4 Pro and the game is truly beautiful.. The first thing I did when I got it was visit https://www.rtings.com/ that @Sven Jurgens mentioned in his post. They do all the work at finding the best settings for your tv. I also had to upgrade my hdmi cable to 2.1 I think. Only when you have all the settings set up correctly on both console and tv will you get the ultimate picture. Anyone that says they can't tell the difference either hasn't viewed the game on the right tv with the right settings or is just plain ignorant. Also of note is that the game was rendered at a higher level than tv's could display at the time, so it will look even better on a PS5 when that is released.
On a side note, I took this pic when we had the rain race at Spa. The sun rising in the background was stunning so I posted it on my feed. But after posting I found the sun area to be washed out. It has much more detail when I view the original picture than the one that was posted. Very disappointed as that was the reason for taking it in the first place. Has anyone experienced this?
On a side note, I took this pic when we had the rain race at Spa. The sun rising in the background was stunning so I posted it on my feed. But after posting I found the sun area to be washed out. It has much more detail when I view the original picture than the one that was posted. Very disappointed as that was the reason for taking it in the first place. Has anyone experienced this?
- 10,735
- Plymouth, UK
- motorforum
I never got a decent colour rendition when I played GTS on a 4K HDR Samsung. Orange and yellow were highly inaccurate and I could never tune it to bring them back in line. McLaren orange would show through as near tangerine and something like Vegas yellow looked like it was dijon mustard.
- 6,764
- Ontario
- SvennoJ
- SvenZ
Yes, screenshots and videos from HDR pictures don't look right. I'm not even sure if a screenshots store the expanded color information but even if it does, you have calibrated it to show correctly on your tv. Trying to view it on any other display will look different. Looking at in on a SDR display and it will look bleached or washed out. I took some awesome pictures of SotC and when looking at it on my high quality gaming laptop display, the shadow detail is completely missing while the highlights lack punch.
It sucks. GTS looks awesome in HDR, yet when I save any video footage from a race I played in HDR, the colors look over saturated and the sky is all washed out.
- 714
- New York
- GTP-DEADPOOL
HDR on vs off is a MASSIVE difference.
Key is having all your devices setup properly and capable. I’m running a Vizio P series with 4K HDR, on a reg PS4 so only HDR. But I calibrated my TV with the THX app and I work in commercial photography so I know how to setup monitors etc.
The most noticeable moments are doing the races at dusk or dawn when the sun is peaking through the clouds, the extra dynamic range makes it jaw droppingly gorgeous.
If you don’t notice the difference, you’ve done something wrong. I highly suggest the THX app, it’s free and easy to calibrate.
Key is having all your devices setup properly and capable. I’m running a Vizio P series with 4K HDR, on a reg PS4 so only HDR. But I calibrated my TV with the THX app and I work in commercial photography so I know how to setup monitors etc.
The most noticeable moments are doing the races at dusk or dawn when the sun is peaking through the clouds, the extra dynamic range makes it jaw droppingly gorgeous.
If you don’t notice the difference, you’ve done something wrong. I highly suggest the THX app, it’s free and easy to calibrate.
