Is Polyphony Digital making a significant mistake by omitting career mode?

Discussion in 'Gran Turismo Sport' started by Danisfast, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. Danisfast

    Danisfast

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    So, GT Sport is upon us and it marks a new chapter in the franchise. Alongside many "missions" and the online, there is the notable omissions of the classic campaign. Initially, I had the impression that this was because Sport was a stop-gap before GT7. However, it has become apparent that this represents a significant and permanent change of direction for the franchise - one into esports and the online world. This kind of innovation is fine and is in-and-of-itself of no concern to me. Maybe the angel is in the detail, but what does concerns me however is that this direction is to the exclusion of the traditional GT career mode.

    I think that this could be a significant mistake and I wonder if it is a needless one at that.

    There are a couple of reasons why,

    Firstly, the "Gran Turismo experience" is quite specific, deeply set and holds a place of affection in the hearts of many. This is an incredibly rare, enviable and fortunate position for a franchise to be in, but it also means that it is difficult to change if you want it to satisfy consumers and continue the success of the brand. Other brands have realised their own luck in this regard and gone for evolution over revolution - to great success. For example, the Mario franchise has virtually never abandoned its core, original experience because consumers have demonstrated time and time again that they will happily pay for and replay new versions of the same game - and even the actual same game re-released many times - assuming the quality is high and it is a core experience that can be enjoyed well into the future. Indeed, Nintendo has been able to sustain its entire existence thanks in no small part to this phenomenon. The notable exception for Mario was Super Mario 64. However, that game's success is because it was executed to a very high standard and in a very unique and specific set of circumstances; including the birth of 3D gaming, at the start of a wildly different generation, and where fewer rivals of a comparable standard existed on a popular platform of not that many games.

    GT Sport however looks like PD is trying to leave behind its own core experience - a more Sonic-esque approach, if you will. After about two decades of trying their best to ruin the brand, SEGA has finally realised their mistake and allowed a fan to release a game that takes the franchise back to its core experience and refines it. The result? A smash hit game and one that is critically regarded as one of the best games in the franchise. This is a clear statement about what kind of thing consumers will pay for, enjoy and keep returning to, in my opinion. Alas, PD is arguably going down the earlier SEGA route and this is in danger of alienating fans - something PD has already risked thanks to numerous delays on their products over the years, a GT5 that was clearly unfinished (and that also tried to mess with the GT experience) and a lack of progression in some important (most aesthetic) areas of the game relative to their rivals.

    It's also potentially needless because the GT mode is not - I understand - an especially labour-intensive process in the Gran(d) scheme of things. I am no programmer, but if this is true, it seems pointless to throw away this core experience when retaining it would require such a relatively small investment. Again, perhaps the detail of the way the GT Sport vision needs to be implemented prevents the inclusion of a GT mode, however.

    But if the compatibility of the future with the past is the problem, then at this point you would be better off calling it something else entirely (which is my final concern). Numerous franchises have tried to cash in on a name whilst attempting to change what it means (a clear and recent example of this is ALIEN Covenant), and have left fans feeling underwhelmed, alienated, confused and disappointed. Some even get angry.

    So, I argue that PD should seriously consider how confident they are in their vision for GT Sport. Does it necessitate the exclusion of the traditional GT mode? If not, I would very strongly encourage them to consider its inclusion at the earliest opportunity (whether that's this game or a future iteration). Preserving the GT experience requires little creative and arguably technical effort and will help draw dollars and eyes to any other features that might be part of the innovative future of the brand. Then, if/when this vision is more established in the future, it will be easier, less alienating and jarring to load up a game from a brand that has gradually evolved with its player base, than one which carries a familiar name, but an alien experience.
     
  2. 2_FAST_4_U

    2_FAST_4_U

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    Well done OP and expresses my thoughts exactly. I've been a big GT career fan through all the many years up until GT5... didn't do GT6 only cause it was still a PS3 game and at that time I thought a GT7 would come out in a new PS4 within a reasonable time period... Everything I've read about GTS suggests basically a total online racing experience, but for many, like myself it's a no go without the good ol' tour proven GT offline stuff that we all loved GT for in the first place.
     
  3. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    It is a very good question. We shall find out when they release the game, but I personally think its about time we get a change of focus. I liked GT5 Prologue more than GT5 which is kinda weird I know. Seasonal events along side a robust Arcade mode is more than good enough for me.
     
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  4. MisterOne77

    MisterOne77

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    "Is Polyphony Digital making a significant mistake by omitting career mode?"

    yes, yes they are
     
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  5. Tired Tyres

    Tired Tyres

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    Agreed.

    It does look like GT-Mode isn't possible to add as the cars are tightly bracketed to create close racing with decent variety of cars.

    Adding GT-mode afterwards I don't think will work. The reason for this is Street Fighter V. It launched as an esport title. It got the esport sales and that's all. The casuals stayed away. Capcom added one player content. It hasn't gained the sales for doing that.

    I suspect GTS will sell in the same way. To esport and online players. If they add enough cars and tracks to create GT-mode afterwards will it drive sales? The experience of SFV suggests not.
     
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  6. Lee x sensai

    Lee x sensai

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    I remember the review from inside simracing on GT6. The reviewer have issue with the game is too grinding and get very boring at the time.Maybe PD could done shake up the career mode up a bit and not thrown them all out.
     
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  7. nhraracer

    nhraracer

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    Very much so! If i want good online racing i go to iracing! I play these games for the career mode. So sad.
     
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  8. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    I'm a Casual Gamer with a family and a career I simply do not have countless hours to spend gaming. Taking away the offline career mode simply makes this game almost useless to the Casual gamer as almost all online only games are geared towards the hardcore gamer.
    I've never played Gran Turismo only to be online or to only drive race cars. It really is sad to see career mode gone along with almost all the production cars.
     
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  9. Turnaround

    Turnaround

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    I remember seeing this happen with Ace Combat Assault Horizon. There they tried introducing DFM as the core gameplay mechanic. There wasn't a lot of joy about that. The very next game went back to the classic gameplay formula.

    It also happened, to a worser extent with Command and Conquer 4. I heard that was supposed to be a different game (gameplay was very different to what made that series a hit) but they for some reason decided to turn it into the conclusion of the Tiberian saga. There hasn't been a new C&C game since aside from browser variety.

    GT is a much larger and arguably more established franchise than those the two I mentioned, so I think the response to change will be a little bit stronger. I'll be surprised if they can pull off the all-in shift to eSport successfully.
     
  10. AH49

    AH49

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    I have limited time to play on an evening and it's for that reason GT Sport appeals.

    A. I don't need to spend countless hours getting the controls to feel 'right'.

    B. I can lap and challenge friends with comprehensive leaderboards, something missing from many sims.

    C. I can race in arcade mode just as before.

    D. As I do in Assetto Corsa, I can drop in and out of casual online races and trackdays in a matter of minutes. Far easier to find competitive races online than fiddling with AI settings.

    E. Photomode and livery creator will take up as much of my time as the racing.

    What I no longer have time for is grinding through a career with overpowered cars (so little challenge), just to unlock more cars. Early tutorial like events can be fun, but when you're onto 100 lap ovals races - and 10 laps ahead of the field - it becomes a chore. It's easy to forget the career grind was the biggest negative of recent GT's. As with all competitive games, the ultimate challenge is against fellow gamers, whether that be driving games, fighters, shooters or sports.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
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  11. VVENOM800TT

    VVENOM800TT

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    I just cancelled my GT Sport order on Amazon and pre ordered Forza 7 instead. I play mainly single player and it sounds like all the single player fans (probably 80% of GT fans) will be let down with GT Sport.

    Ill wait for a few more hands on post release reviews to see if it'll be worth getting.
     
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  12. Thank youuuu.
     
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  13. qwbufp

    qwbufp (Banned)

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    We’ll be able to set our own races and championships and win credits. Customized grinding seems like a good idea. I always thought the career was an afterthought with a bunch of unrelated events just put in place to enable us to win credits and cars.
     
  14. Suzumiya

    Suzumiya

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    PD are making a motorsports esports game without knowing anything about motorsports.
     
  15. Rinsky

    Rinsky Premium

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    A. I liked unlocking the production cars in GT and never was into the full-blown race cars. Production cars is what made GT different and fun to me.

    B. I liked tuning on the cars and making them fit my driving style and working on that aspect of the game.

    C. I don't like competitive online gaming or leaderboards because it's only a matter of time before people find ways to cheat and exploit them. Happens every single time on the most popular online console games.

    D. The livery creator will be a nice feature but Photomode is not my thing. I want to play my game and not take photos of it.

    That's not saying that GT didn't need some kind of overhaul but to dump career mode completely along with almost every production car is just crazy. Now people will have to buy the game, buy PlayStation Plus and buy any DLC.. That's alot of money to be paying for what seems like a stripped down race car only version of GT. So why alienate such a large portion of the GT fan base after so many years of success?
     
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  16. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    Even though Kaz himself has raced the Nurb 24 hours multiple times? Jesus, I get that PD may have some issues here and there, but to act like they don't know anything about the industry they are involved with?

    I honestly feel like I'm among the minority who is going into this game with an open mind.

    PD is damned if they do, damned if they don't at this point.
     
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  17. Suzumiya

    Suzumiya

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    So why have the 24 Hours of nurburgring events in past games up until 6 had Group C cars participate, and go into the GT6 races and do the 24 Hours of Spa or Le Mans and it's a mish mash of cars.

    I'm tired of having an open mind with GT as it's just going to be the same thing over and over again, like the 911 RSR in Group 3.
     
  18. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    Because Gran Turismo is ultimately a game too. Sometimes you have to throw reality out the window for a chuckle. What's the issue with having a the 911 RSR in group 3? GT3 cars and GTE cars are more or less almost the same. I feel like this is just needless nitpicking now.
     
  19. Suzumiya

    Suzumiya

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    Needless nitpicking? The whole game has been centered around a motorsports serious tone of esports. I think most competitors will have a problem trying to do a GT3 race around Tokyo Expressway, I think cars like the GT-R GT4 and the Megane will be extremely dispaired but all in the sake of throwing realism out of the windows for fun, right? Fun having a meta car that doesn't even comply to real world GT4 rules and just decimates everything.

    From what I've played in the beta, there are no yellow flag rules, nothing to deter dirty racing, ghosting to 'prevent' crashes, etc etc. So nitpicking is kind of needed especially when we've been letting these little things get in the middle of enjoyment playing.
     
  20. sumbrownkid

    sumbrownkid Premium

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    Just because it's esports doesn't mean it has to be 100% max to the rulebook get summoned to the FIA court stuff. And it was a beta, which means things aren't finalized. The AI did wave yellow flags so I'm inclined to believe the normal racing rules will apply once the game releases. That said, a lot of people are just gonna play this for fun with no serious intent for competition.

    And PD has the benefit of insta-BoP if one car gets too advantageous. There will be hit and misses, just like in reality, but I doubt they will let one car or another keep dominating. I expect that GTR GT4 to be nerfed eventually.

    How PD has categorized cars, and the inclusion of fantasy cars is not something many have really complained about. Other than the "hurr durr PD could have spent time modeling this one car I like but they didn't so boo".

    As for the question asked in this thread? I agree that losing the classic single player is hard to swallow but at the same time, I don't miss the grinds GT5 and GT6 were, nor how easy the races were.

    I'd much rather make custom races instead.
     
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2017
  21. GordonS

    GordonS

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    No. The masses have no time to grind repetitive career modes nowadays. Customizable arcade, photomode, liveries, easy access online etc. - these tied to social media functions are going to make the change this time. This is the new way, new wave of Gran Turismo.
     
  22. Lord Protector

    Lord Protector

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    as much as I love online racing, I would love to get a GT6-like experience on PS4
     
  23. CodeCmdr

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    I don't think they're making a mistake. Gran Turismo has gotten so much competition in the last 5 years that beat it as its own design. Forza has a better car grinding career mode, PCars2 has a better motorsports career mode, Dirt has a better rally career mode, so why would Gran Turismo try to be yet another single-player-focused game when there are already so many others out on consoles?

    I think trying to make online racing casual-friendly on consoles is a good decision, because that's a new and awesome feature that no other console racing game has as of yet.

    Btw, it's not like GTS won't have offline racing against AI. What are people missing anyway? The campaign race leagues, the grinding for credits to buy better cars? GTS will have credits and grinding, from what we've seen so far. The only thing that's missing are the single-player race leagues.
     
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  24. eran0004

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    There is not enough cars and tracks to support a traditional GT career mode. There is just a handful of classes now, so you would end up with a very short career or a lot of repeated events with just some minor tweaks.
     
  25. CodeCmdr

    CodeCmdr

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    Yeah, to have fair and competitive online racing, you need to have performance groups like GT4, GT3, etc. in which the cars have very similar performance ratings. Having a large set of production cars and the ability to tune them would make it impossible to balance the game for online racing.
     
  26. fikridroid

    fikridroid

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    My concern too but then we didn't know how the rumoured event creator feature will work, hopefully it's good enough as an consolation prize of the omitted traditional career mode.
     
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  27. VBR

    VBR Premium

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    As somebody who hates the career mode & the way PD makes us grind for cars, I will not personally miss it. But I do think it's a mistake to take it out entirely as, unlike PD, I respect the fact that many GT fans like it. PD have always managed to get as many things right as they get wrong, & this has made me quite ambivalent towards the GT series over the years. Online was just another game mode in past games, & to pretty much forsake everything else for it seems a tad extreme imho. As much as I love & hate the game, it may ironically end up providing the very thing I'm searching for on PS4; a good solid online racer with lots of options for setting up clean public lobbies. No other game I've tried or know about does on PS4 what GT on PS3 does.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2017
  28. sems4arsenal

    sems4arsenal Premium

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    Interesting tweet I got from one of the guys at gamerindustry (not sure what they are called, but they cover the UK sales chart). When I asked why he wasn't surprised F1 2017 sold more than PCARS 2 -- he mentioned the established fan base as well as their Esports focus being a success. One huge advantage F1 2017 has is well it is F1. The official website regularly mentions the Esports events on social media. That kind of coverage will be important. This got me thinking about the amount of coverage potential GTS has. FIA licensed stuff will get picked up by lots of news outlets. Heck, even car manufacturers might cover the cup as well.

    They might be on to something is what I'll currently say.
     
  29. Symtex

    Symtex

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    The issue with online focus game is :

    1. You need to pay a PSN subscription
    2. Your experience will highly depends on who you are matchmaking with. If you are pair with idiots, you will have a fun time getting rear ended every corner.
    3. Online races requires a lot more time : Finding a lobby, waiting for all the other players to be ready, etc..
    4. Offline offers more controls over the experience you get out of GT.

    I've been seriously wondering if I will buy GT Sports. Right now, PCars 2 offers everything I need from a motorsport needs. I think the fact that I don't have a wheel for the PS4 is really weighting on me. I am not sure I want to go race online with a controller. There is not enough throw for the brake/gass using the DS4 trigger.
     
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  30. Losco

    Losco

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    I'm totally not interested in Online mode so.. yes. It's a huge mistake.

    Btw, nothing about split screen?
     
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