Is SRF really that unrealistic?

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Could I be right about this?

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et_

et_

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elias_johansson
So, I have this theory, it may sound stupid at first, but think about it. What if... SRF ON is the way PD recreated as the most realistic, and SRF OFF is a unrealistic tool to reduce grip? The reason I even considered this is that in the latest FT-1 seasonal event, the fastest way was to drive with a tiny bit of sliding, and it lets go much smoother too, so you can balance the car on that tiny bit of slide through the corner quite easily. with SRF ON the car grips more, and when it finally lets go, it lets go more violently. and with SRF ON, any form of sliding WILL slow you down. To me, that sounds like the more realistic option.

Look at it this way, you can make a chart of how tyre slip affects the grip, and the line would look roughly like the ones below, even IRL. This is just an estimation from my point of view, the lines could be slightly different, but what line is closest to reality SRF or non SRF? Its just a matter of figuring out how the line should be drawn to reflect reality. Anyway, this is somewhat how I experience it in game:
SRHBUOZ.jpg


What I'm trying to say is, maybe the blue line is the one closest to reality.

Thoughts on that guys? Mind blown or am I just an idiot with a keyboard?
 
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nascarfan1400
In that case, you're an idiot behind a keyboard, lol.

No, just irl smaller slides wouldn't slow you down a Whole lot.
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When I was racing go-carts when I was younger, It was almost necessary to slide the rear wheels a little, but whenever I'm at a track with a real car these days, it feels like every single little slide slows me down...
 
yeah, but I honestly think that the feel I get with SRF ON is closer to reality than OFF, but looking at laptimes compared to reality, SRF OFF is the realistic option... but then again, they say a top time in a simulator should be 1-1½ seconds faster due to the higher risks you can take.
 
et_
With SRF ON the car grips more, and when it finally lets go, it lets go more violently. and with SRF ON, any form of sliding WILL slow you down. To me, that sounds like the more realistic option.
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If you're saying that with SRF on you will be slower because sliding slows you down, you are right you have no clue, sorry. SRF is the fastest way around any track and sideways is fastest with SRF on.
 
et_
When I was racing go-carts when I was younger, It was almost necessary to slide the rear wheels a little, but whenever I'm at a track with a real car these days, it feels like every single little slide slows me down...
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This just demonstrates that you know very little about the differences between a kart and a "real car" mechanics. Try to google "differential".

Here, let me help you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Differential_(mechanical_device)
 
Hey Johnny, easy on my friend @et_ :lol: Maybe he is just trying to make a positive out of a negative. :odd: I don't know, but et.............what the hell are you thinking? :lol: Any friend of mine would not think like that. :lol: I think maybe you might of had one too many rum and Cokes or something :lol:...back away from the keyboard and relax for a minute. :lol:
 
@Johnnypenso : Thats not really what I ment, SRF ON is way faster, but sideways is not the fastest way, every little slide slows me down, and look where I'm at in the leaderboards, I'm not completely clueless about how to drive fast in-game atleast...
we'll see how the FT-1 feels when I go for a serious time, but already at my reconnaissance lap I noticed I could slide more than usual without loosing speed. and that the car was easier to drive on the edge than usual (felt like GT5 again)

@RodrigoDLL : I'm a mechanic, at the national graduation test I scored best in my school, 3'rd in my town, and 8'th nationwide. I know how an LSD works m8;)

@GTP_CargoRatt just hear me out, I'm not saying I think this is true, I'm just saying it could be true.

Lets take an example. if I take my car (e46 M3) to the track, and then drive the same car in-game, the feeling I get when driving with SRF ON is closer to the feeling I get IRL than it is with SRF OFF.

Do you guys see where I'm getting here?
 
Instead of SRF ON, use higher grip tire, say if you have SH, use SM or SS - SRF OFF, now compare that to SH with SRF ON.
 
et_
@Johnnypenso : Thats not really what I ment, SRF ON is way faster, but sideways is not the fastest way, every little slide slows me down, and look where I'm at in the leaderboards, I'm not completely clueless about how to drive fast in-game atleast...
we'll see how the FT-1 feels when I go for a serious time, but already at my reconnaissance lap I noticed I could slide more than usual without loosing speed. and that the car was easier to drive on the edge than usual (felt like GT5 again)

@RodrigoDLL : I'm a mechanic, at the national graduation test I scored best in my school, 3'rd in my town, and 8'th nationwide. I know how an LSD works m8;)

@GTP_CargoRatt just hear me out, I'm not saying I think this is true, I'm just saying it could be true.

Lets take an example. if I take my car (e46 M3) to the track, and then drive the same car in-game, the feeling I get when driving with SRF ON is closer to the feeling I get IRL than it is with SRF OFF.

Do you guys see where I'm getting here?
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You've lost me completely I have no idea what you are trying to say.

SRF ON is way faster, but sideways is not the fastest way, every little slide slows me down,
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The last car I drove with SRF was @GTP_CargoRatt 's tune for the Rocket TT at Suzuka. I was sideways in every corner as was everyone in the top 10 and I suspect most of the top 10,000. If sliding with SRF on is increasing your lap times you're doing something wrong.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Instead of SRF ON, use higher grip tire, say if you have SH, use SM or SS - SRF OFF, now compare that to SH with SRF ON.
Click to expand...
Well, I have not tried that, but that would mean SRF doesn't really do anything more than just increase overall grip, no change in physics, which is what I kind of think it does to some degree...

@Johnnypenso : I think I was one of those top 10, only reason I was sideways was because I could'nt handle the car. that LCC rocket was insane, to this day its still the craziest setup I've ever used for a seasonal. but it was the way it had to be set up to be as fast as possible.
 
et_
Well, I have not tried that, but that would mean SRF doesn't really do anything more than just increase overall grip, no change in physics, which is what I kind of think it does to some degree...

@Johnnypenso : I think I was one of those top 10, only reason I was sideways was because I could'nt handle the car. that LCC rocket was insane, to this day its still the craziest setup I've ever used for a seasonal. but it was the way it had to be set up to be as fast as possible.
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I consider SRF has 2 step grip increase, step 1 permanent increase on the tire, and step 2 when there's grip loss, that's why tuners added camber to make the car more prone to slide while SRF ON.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
I consider SRF has 2 step grip increase, step 1 permanent increase on the tire, and step 2 when there's grip loss, that's why tuners added camber to make the car more prone to slide while SRF ON.
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Makes sense... but I still claim that SRF ON could be the most realistic option...
 
et_
@Johnnypenso : Thats not really what I ment, SRF ON is way faster, but sideways is not the fastest way, every little slide slows me down, and look where I'm at in the leaderboards, I'm not completely clueless about how to drive fast in-game atleast...
we'll see how the FT-1 feels when I go for a serious time, but already at my reconnaissance lap I noticed I could slide more than usual without loosing speed. and that the car was easier to drive on the edge than usual (felt like GT5 again)

@RodrigoDLL : I'm a mechanic, at the national graduation test I scored best in my school, 3'rd in my town, and 8'th nationwide. I know how an LSD works m8;)

@GTP_CargoRatt just hear me out, I'm not saying I think this is true, I'm just saying it could be true.

Lets take an example. if I take my car (e46 M3) to the track, and then drive the same car in-game, the feeling I get when driving with SRF ON is closer to the feeling I get IRL than it is with SRF OFF.

Do you guys see where I'm getting here?
Click to expand...

Don't mind me @et_ I'm just having a bit of fun with you as your idea sounds like one coming from a man that's been in a coma for the last 4 years :lol: but as crazy as it sounds, I think I see the angle you're coming from. When you really take a minute and think about it, what you're saying may just have some merit to it.......maybe. It certainly is a different way of thinking about it, I'll give you that. Gotta give you credit for thinking outside the box anyway. 👍
 
Samus
A magic aid that stops the car skidding the most realistic option? No.
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Yeah, but the thing is thats not how the SRF works, it givers you more and more grip, but as soon as you step over the line, the improved grip is somewhat removed. after driving with it for quite a while now thats how I feel its working, so to some degree, its the complete opposite to a "skid recovery force"
 
et_
Yeah, but the thing is thats not how the SRF works, it givers you more and more grip, but as soon as you step over the line, the improved grip is somewhat removed. after driving with it for quite a while now thats how I feel its working, so to some degree, its the complete opposite to a "skid recovery force"
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Sorry but that is exactly how it works, you start skidding and some magic force gives you extra grip. Of course there is a limit, it doesn't completely prevent skidding/spinning out but its certainly not the most realistic option.
 
Samus
Sorry but that is exactly how it works, you start skidding and some magic force gives you extra grip. Of course there is a limit, it doesn't completely prevent skidding/spinning out but its certainly not the most realistic option.
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But how do you know it's not completely the other way around, that turning it off is a magic force that takes away grip when you start to skid?
 
et_
But how do you know it's not completely the other way around, that turning it off is a magic force that takes away grip when you start to skid?
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Because people know how cars drive, and SRF on feels nothing like it?
 
et_
but as @Ridox2JZGTE pointed out, SRF is acting just like slapping on a set of higher grip tyres...
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He can clarify but i'm pretty sure that isn't what he meant because it isn't true. A softer, grippier tyre gives you more grip but you still lose traction and when you do it's up to you to get it back. SRF on the other hand defies physics and hands you more grip when you lose traction. Driving with SRF on just feels strange and very unnatural to me. GT6 physics may not be perfect but they're far closer to reality without SRF than with.

You don't need a magic force to take away grip when you skid, physics take care of that.
 
Ridox2JZGTE
I consider SRF has 2 step grip increase, step 1 permanent increase on the tire, and step 2 when there's grip loss, that's why tuners added camber to make the car more prone to slide while SRF ON.
Click to expand...

Try to do rolling start high powered car that usually spins without SRF on 2nd gear or above at speed, then use SRF, try if it still happens. I almost never use SRF, the only time was when I did some tests on SRF when inspecting Rocket Seasonal TT replays for comparing tunes, and discussed the SRF effect on tunes with some camber on driven wheels. Eclipsee also shared his thoughts. There seems to be added constant straight line + cornering grip as well as when the grip is lost.

The new Data Logger might come in handy to compare 2 runs, with and without SRF.
 
I personally find I loose all feel for the car with srf on. There is a good little physics engine in gt6 (gt3, nascar & super gt cars) but you do have to turn the abs off as well to appreciate it. Personally I feel the step from gt5 in this respect is night n day. It feels a little like a sim bin type title with no aids which is just FLAT COOL:cheers:
 
Ridox2JZGTE
Try to do rolling start high powered car that usually spins without SRF on 2nd gear or above at speed, then use SRF, try if it still happens. I almost never use SRF, the only time was when I did some tests on SRF when inspecting Rocket Seasonal TT replays for comparing tunes, and discussed the SRF effect on tunes with some camber on driven wheels. Eclipsee also shared his thoughts. There seems to be added constant straight line + cornering grip as well as when the grip is lost.
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Sorry to butt in, as I'm no tuner, but I play one on tv (:lol:). To me one of the many problems with how suspensions and tires have been handled in this game is PD decided to get a tiny bit more "real" with some chassis on some cars while leaving others "old stupid simple", a slight change in how the aids affect the drivability, and the new tire model with changeable tire sizes for most cars. It's a LOT to combine in one game where most coming to the table "think" they already know how to play.

RW, you say you've been testing SRF in conjunction with camber adjustments. But isn't camber broken? Is the Rocket an exception? Are you going "whole hog" with assumptions like changing tire size does affect handling and should be accounted for in suspension settings? Again, sorry for intruding and asking a slightly different question, but I seriously dislike "borrowing" another's tune, and wish to learn exactly what PD's done here so I can work things out more for myself.

As to SRF itself, I've basically considered it a tool to be used when you don't wish to tune the car further or are stuck with that last little bit to getting a car to "hang" a bit better in the corners than your tuning ability is allowing. As a fan of the 'Ring, I suppose you can all figure out exactly which parts of the track are my favorite.:cheers:
 

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