Is the GT-R the best car in the world right now for the money?

[Tornado]

are they now?

Yes.
That is all.

 

[the Interceptor]

I put some more thought into this matter, and here's how I would tackle the subject.

I'd take the German approach (big surprise there) and make a gigantic table containing all kinds of information for a car. Then, I'd develop a points system where a car earns points for every specific attribute (power,weight, performance, luggage & passenger space, materials, build quality, ...). The result then is put into relation with the price. The result is a factor that describes how much you get for your money. And I'm pretty sure the GT-R would score pretty high in that.

I am aware that this system totally ignores things like passion and the petrolhead-must-have-factor, this obviously is the purely technical approach. However, the question at hand does not ask which car you'd most like to have, rather than what you think which car is best overall car right now, so I think the technical approach is pretty right in this case.

On another note, I'd be very happy if some people here would bite the bullet and just answer the question at hand, instead of talking down on the GT-R because they hate it. Not liking a car and still acknowledging its abilities actually is possible and something I think I can expect from an adult.

 

[McLaren]

Pretty sure they were built for different reasons. Also the Veyron is considered what? A touring car or something? I don't know automotive classification are something I don't care to understand.

Hypercar seems to be the general category I see the Veyron labeled as.

 

[niky]

I put some more thought into this matter, and here's how I would tackle the subject.

I'd take the German approach (big surprise there) and make a gigantic table containing all kinds of information for a car. Then, I'd develop a points system where a car earns points for every specific attribute (power,weight, performance, luggage & passenger space, materials, build quality, ...). The result then is put into relation with the price. The result is a factor that describes how much you get for your money. And I'm pretty sure the GT-R would score pretty high in that.

I am aware that this system totally ignores things like passion and the petrolhead-must-have-factor, this obviously is the purely technical approach. However, the question at hand does not ask which car you'd most like to have, rather than what you think which car is best overall car right now, so I think the technical approach is pretty right in this case.

On another note, I'd be very happy if some people here would bite the bullet and just answer the question at hand, instead of talking down on the GT-R because they hate it. Not liking a car and still acknowledging its abilities actually is possible and something I think I can expect from an adult.

You could use the Dan Neil Index of Usefulness (which I stumbled upon in research for my next article)...

The index works like this: Rate any vehicle on a scale of one to ten (ten being most useful) in the following, no-particular-order categories: speed, handling, affordability, fuel economy, styling, cargo capacity, comfort, off-road and all-weather intrepidity, and image making.

Which puts the GT-R about here:

Speed - 9
Handling - 10
Affordability - 4 (let's face it... cheap as it is for a supercar, it's not really affordable)
Economy - 4 (ditto)
Styling - 6 (would've scored lower with chrome trim)
Cargo - 5
Comfort - 7 (reportedly stiff ride)
Off-road - 4 (better than average due to AWD... much worse than average due to ride height)
All Weather - 10
Image Making - 10 (because nothing raises image like controversy)

Gives you a score of... 6.9

Compared to, say, a Porsche GT2:

Speed - 9
Handling - 10
Affordability - 3
Economy - 4
Styling - 7 (giving a higher score for a style that hasn't changed in decades would be a travesty)
Cargo - 5
Comfort - 7
Off-road - 2
All Weather - 5
Image Making - 8

Which comes to 6.

Or a Bugatti Veyron:

Speed - 10
Handling - 10
Affordability - 1
Economy - 1
Styling - 8 (don't like it, but I respect it)
Cargo - 3
Comfort - 10
Off-road - 3
All Weather - 10
Image Making - 10

Which comes to 6.6.

Or, best of all, a Mitsubishi Evo:

Speed - 7
Handling - 10
Affordability - 7
Economy - 6
Styling - 8
Cargo - 8
Comfort - 7
Off-road - 7
All Weather - 10
Image Making - 7

Equaling a GT-R, Porsche and Bugatti killing 7.7 average. All hail the Evo.

Of course, those scores are purely subjective and I'm really a Mitsubishi fanboy.

 

[gator of kana]

I did agree with the Interceptor on talking down on the GT-R, why be mad at it when you should be proud of Japan for making their first ever supercar besides the NSX-R

 

[the Interceptor]

You could use the Dan Neil Index of Usefulness (which I stumbled upon in research for my next article)

Great find! As you said, even taking the scientific approach is quite subjective. Therefore, my scores would be a little different (see reasons below). Note that my view is aimed at the German market (mostly concerning the GT-Rs price and the Porsches reputation).


GT-R:
Speed - 9 (very fast in all aspects (acceleration, topspeed, ...))
Handling - 9 (might feel a tad artificial, but handles brilliantly nonetheless)
Affordability - 9 (you won't get more power, space, quality and speed for the same money unless you modify heavily or buy a Vette)
Economy - 6 (no Prius, but no extreme gas-guzzler either)
Styling - 7 (has unique looks; more technical than Aston Martin, but at least outstanding)
Cargo - 8 (proper 4-seater, quite large boot)
Comfort - 8 (all-day-usable only in comfort mode, but sure-footed, high class interior)
Off-road - 3 (can live with loose surfaces, but has low ride height)
All Weather - 10 (very sure-footed, good traction in all conditions)
Image Making - 10 (people love it or hate it, but they're gonna notice you)
Score: 8.1


Porsche GT2:
Speed - 9 (only beaten by the best supercars)
Handling - 8 (quite a handful at the limit, GT3 RS is easier and better to handle)
Affordability - 2 (as usually with Porsches not really a bargain)
Economy - 8 (quite economic in relation to its power)
Styling - 7 (classical 911 looks carried over to modern styling, a timeless classic that goes well everywhere)
Cargo - 4 (small boot, only two seats)
Comfort - 7 (quite loud but not uncomfortable, there are better 911 for long trips though)
Off-road - 2 (will most likely get stuck quickly, low ride height)
All Weather - 4 (911 Turbo will grip much better due to AWD, loads of turbo power and RWD plus rear bias bad for rain)
Image Making - 5 (loads of 911s on German streets piloted by idiots, only anoraks will recognize it as a hardcore model)
Score: 5.6


Bugatti Veyron:
Speed - 10 (hard to beat it in every aspect)
Handling - 7 (cloaks its weight very well, still a heavy car overall)
Affordability - 1 (only for the super rich)
Economy - 1 (unbelievably expensive in every way, burns quite some gas)
Styling - 8 (nice Bugatti classic resemblance, a unique timeless classic)
Cargo - 3 (extremely small boot, only space for two people)
Comfort - 10 (extremely high class interior, great place to be in)
Off-road - 3 (good traction on all surfaces, but no off-roading even with adjustable ride height)
All Weather - 10 (highly capable even on wet surfaces due to sophisticated AWD)
Image Making - 10 (one of the most regarded car of the past years, will definitely get you attention everywhere)

Score: 6.3
​

Mitsubishi Evo:
Speed - 7 (good acceleration off the line, but only average top speed)
Handling - 10 (known to be one of the best handling saloons around)
Affordability - 9 (not the cheapest saloon, but very capable for the money)
Economy - 6 (sacrifices economy and running costs for power and speed)
Styling - 7 (quite brash, not a car to hide in, but not ugly)
Cargo - 7 (relatively good space for a power saloon, good boot)
Comfort - 7 (no softie, but definitely good for such a quick car, interior only average)
Off-road - 7 (limited by its tires, but surprisingly good off-road due to rally genes)
All Weather - 10 (extremely quick in all conditions)
Image Making - 9 (only anoraks will recognize and love you, the rest will think you're a ricer)
Score: 7.9

I added the...

Corvette C6:
Speed - 9 (very fast in all aspects, high topspeed, great N/A displacement engine)
Handling - 8 (criticized for its suspension for no reason, good handler)
Affordability - 10 (hard to find more power and performance unless you modify)
Economy - 9 (surprisingly good economy due to clever gearbox and low weight)
Styling - 7 (has lost character over the years, but remains to be a proper sports coupe)
Cargo - 7 (only two seats, but very large boot)
Comfort - 7 (not the most comfortable car, but surely acceptable even for every day use)
Off-road - 2 (RWD, average to low ride height, no intention to ever go offroad)
All Weather - 5 (torquey engine and little weight at the back need a careful foot in the wet and on snow)
Image Making - 8 (has developed a pimp reputation in Germany, still has trouble shaking it off)
Score: 7.2

 

[GT Pro]

A standard Ultima GTR would do the trick, it costs roughly the same as a new (R35) GTR, and does the 0-60 in just 3.3 seconds.

 

[the Interceptor]

Ultima GTR:
Speed - 10 (accelerates very quickly due to low weight, topspeed depends on engine and gearbox)
Handling - 10 (basically just a light frame for a powerful mid-engine: epic!)
Affordability - 7 (extremely cheap to get, but you have to build it by yourself)
Economy - 8 (unknown, but should be good due to small and light car)
Styling - 6 (not really a pretty car, more functional-prototype like)
Cargo - 3 (no boot, just some small pockets and limited space for 2 passengers)
Comfort - 4 (very pure and direct, therefore loud and rough, basic interior)
Off-road - 2 (RWD, average to low ride height, not made to go offroad)
All Weather - 4 (loads of power, low weight & mid-engine will be tricky in the wet and on snow)
Image Making - 9 (will attract anoraks and make average people curious)
Score: 6.3



Mercedes Benz C 63 AMG:
Speed - 8 (accelerates quickly due to loads of power, electronics and aerodynamics limit the top speed)
Handling - 7 (isn't as delightful as an M3, but the sportiest C-class yet)
Affordability - 9 (great overall package for the money)
Economy - 7 (not exactly a record holder in fuel consumption, averagely economic)
Styling - 8 (the sleek and tight looks of a C-class combined with the power-garnish of AMG, elegant too)
Cargo - 8 (proper 5-seater sedan, good boot)
Comfort - 9 (harder than the standard model, but still a Merc, good comfort and great interior)
Off-road - 3 (RWD, average ride height, not made to go offroad)
All Weather - 6 (loads of power make it tricky in the wet and on snow, electronics help but take the power away)
Image Making - 8 (the average person won't recognize it over a standard C-class, an elegant car nonetheless)
Score: 7.3



Ariel Atom:
Speed - 9 (accelerates very quickly due to low weight, topspeed will rip your head off)
Handling - 10 (tricky, but extremely agile, as good as it gets)
Affordability - 10 (very cheap to buy for the performance)
Economy - 8 (presumably quite low fuel consumption)
Styling - 9 (different than anything else, but very beautilful in itself)
Cargo - 3 (space for two people and a pair of sunglasses)
Comfort - 1 (comfort's not the point of this car, therefore there is none)
Off-road - 4 (mid-engined RWD, but should be surprisingly good off-road due to good ground clearance)
All Weather - 1 (will not drive worse than others in the rain, but the passengers will be exposed to the weather)
Image Making - 10 (every person will love this car)
Score: 6.5



Holden Monaro:
Speed - 8 (powerful RWD car with good acceleration and top speed)
Handling - 7 (handles well for a large, powerful saloon)
Affordability - 0 (not available in Germany, gets a 9 for low prices where you can buy it)
Economy - 7 (good economics for the power)
Styling - 7 (powerful looks, resembles racing cars based on the same model)
Cargo - 8 (good space for passengers and luggage)
Comfort - 8 (good ride quality, no problem with longer trips)
Off-road - 3 (not made to go offroad, not worse off than the competition however)
All Weather - 5 (will be okay on slippery ground)
Image Making - 7 (basically unknown in Germany, but would be liked overall)
Score: 6.0 (Germany) / 6.9 (international)



BMW 320d Touring:
Speed - 5 (a good diesel engine, but only average in regards to the competition)
Handling - 6 (quite a heavy estate car, but a 3-Series nonetheless)
Affordability - 8 (does a lot of things for its money)
Economy - 10 (efficient diesel engine)
Styling - 5 (not really a beauty, more aiming for functionality)
Cargo - 10 (loads of space for passengers and luggage regarding the size)
Comfort - 8 (has no problem with long Autobahn trips, good interior)
Off-road - 4 (RWD, average ride height, not made to go offroad)
All Weather - 8 (has little problems in the wet due to low power and electronic nannies)
Image Making - 6 (won't turn heads, but will be liked overall)
Score: 7.0


Will add more later...

 

[Joey D]

That index is way to subjective though, proving that the best car in the world for the money is whatever the consumer thinks it is.

 

[the Interceptor]

It surely is subjective, but it's not completely random. I'm absolutely open for discussion if you don't agree with the scores I give anyway.

 

[Rainmaster]

if I had money I would buy new RS6 or GT-R

 

[Joey D]

Great find! As you said, even taking the scientific approach is quite subjective. Therefore, my scores would be a little different (see reasons below). Note that my view is aimed at the German market (mostly concerning the GT-Rs price and the Porsches reputation).


GT-R:
Speed - 9 (very fast in all aspects (acceleration, topspeed, ...))
Handling - 9 (might feel a tad artificial, but handles brilliantly nonetheless)
Affordability - 9 (you won't get more power, space, quality and speed for the same money unless you modify heavily or buy a Vette)
Economy - 6 (no Prius, but no extreme gas-guzzler either)
Styling - 7 (has unique looks; more technical than Aston Martin, but at least outstanding)
Cargo - 8 (proper 4-seater, quite large boot)
Comfort - 8 (all-day-usable only in comfort mode, but sure-footed, high class interior)
Off-road - 3 (can live with loose surfaces, but has low ride height)
All Weather - 10 (very sure-footed, good traction in all conditions)
Image Making - 10 (people love it or hate it, but they're gonna notice you)
Score: 8.1

Speed, yes I can agree with, it's fast so there is no doubting that: 9

Handling, yes I can agree with that as well: 9

Affordability, they are currently selling for $100k+ with markups and even when they are back down to MSRP they are still expensive: 4

Economy, it's a sports car: 5

Styling, the GT-R is probably the ugliest sports car I've seen in a very long time, nothing about it aesthetically pleasing: 4

Cargo, it might have four seats but I can't take it to the hardware store and get lumber or even put a ton of suitcases in for a trip. Plus it only have 4 seats instead of: 5

Comfort, I'm going to not answer this since I couldn't even begin to know (nor can very many people) because I haven't driven it let alone sat in it: N/A

Off-road : 3

All-weather, yes it can handle rain and a bit of snow but I would love to see it drive in the salty slush we call a Michigan winter, plus you would bother to drive it during the winter either because the tires are rather meh for that: 5

Image, I agree it creates and image whether good or bad: 9

Score: 5.8, the car is fast and can lap a track in a quick time but other than that I can't really see it being much of a use in everyday life making it a no go on the best car I can get for the money.

So lets take something I think is up there.

Audi RS6 Avant

Speed, it's not as fast as the GT-R but is fast: 7

Handling, good AWD system and suspension: 7

Affordability, not so much: 4

Economy, again, not so much: 4

Styling, I rather like the styling on the car, it look very good for an estate car: 7

Cargo, it's an estate: 9

Comfort, not including for fairness: N/A

Off-road, : 3

All-weather, while it wouldn't be as bad as the GT-R it's still no deep snow car: 8

Image, everyone that seen the car talks about it because it's a stupid fast estate/wagon: 9

Score: 6.4, although I don't really consider the RS6 to be the worlds best car and I'm sure if I thought about it for a long time I could figure on out.

 

[the Interceptor]

Affordability, they are currently selling for $100k+ with markups and even when they are back down to MSRP they are still expensive: 4

Expensive based on what? The MSRP is $69,850. Where except of the Z06 do you get comparable performance, equipment and comfort for the same money? The temproary markups are hardly the car's fault, they simply exist because the car still is rare and has created quite a stir amongst probable customers.

Economy, it's a sports car: 5

Yes, but even sports cars can be relatively economic. You can say that doing 23 mpg is not good. However, if a 473hp car does that, figures become very relative.

Styling, the GT-R is probably the ugliest sports car I've seen in a very long time, nothing about it aesthetically pleasing: 4

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I don't find the GT-R beautiful as in true beauty, but it surely resembles Japanese styling very well. I didn't like it much at first, but the car surely has grown on me. Overall, I like the styling in a technical kind of way.

Cargo, it might have four seats but I can't take it to the hardware store and get lumber or even put a ton of suitcases in for a trip. Plus it only have 4 seats instead of: 5

Which car that has been mentioned here can you put these things into? Only the estate cars will manage that, so everything that isn't an estate gets a bad score. When you relate the size of the GT-R to the space it has in the cabin and the boot however, it is a proper saloon despite its sporty abilities. Therefore, I see no reason to vote it down. It has no 5th seat, I give you that, but when do you actually use the 5th seat in a saloon anyway? Such cars are just too small to fit three people in the back in comfort.

Comfort, I'm going to not answer this since I couldn't even begin to know (nor can very many people) because I haven't driven it let alone sat in it: N/A

Neither have I, but I haven't driven any of the cars I marked. My marks are based on the impressions I was able to gather from reviews, and as all the reviews of the GT-R basically agree on the ride quality as I described it, I suppose it is quite close to the truth.

Not giving a score at all is a bit cheap though. Note that I split the availability score for the Monaro as well. Voting it down because I can not buy it would be just false, because it changes the overall score of the car big time and therefore distorts the picture the car leaves. You did the same thing for the GT-R, and that's just plain wrong.

All-weather, yes it can handle rain and a bit of snow but I would love to see it drive in the salty slush we call a Michigan winter, plus you would bother to drive it during the winter either because the tires are rather meh for that: 5

What's the problem with slapping winter tires on it? Which high performance summer tire will cope well with snow anyway?

Obviously, this score is based on what the car will do in those conditions, not the tires. That includes putting the appropriate tires on, such as winter tires in snow.

Score: 5.8

I only count 5.3 overall. Did you probably give 5 points for comfort?

the car is fast and can lap a track in a quick time but other than that I can't really see it being much of a use in everyday life making it a no go on the best car I can get for the money.

Other than that you just deeply hate it, I just don't see why. Okay, you don't like the looks of it. But it's fast in every aspect, it has space inside, it is comfortable, well made, most likely very reliable and well regarded by many. But let's carry on...

So lets take something I think is up there.

Audi RS6 Avant

Speed, it's not as fast as the GT-R but is fast: 7

Handling, good AWD system and suspension: 7

Affordability, not so much: 4

Economy, again, not so much: 4

Styling, I rather like the styling on the car, it look very good for an estate car: 7

Cargo, it's an estate: 9

Comfort, not including for fairness: N/A

Off-road, : 3

All-weather, while it wouldn't be as bad as the GT-R it's still no deep snow car: 8

Image, everyone that seen the car talks about it because it's a stupid fast estate/wagon: 9

Score: 6.4, although I don't really consider the RS6 to be the worlds best car and I'm sure if I thought about it for a long time I could figure on out.

Here's the score I'd give the ...

Audi RS6 Avant:
Speed - 8 (not a track racer, but a very powerful and therefore fast car)
Handling - 7 (typically for Audi quite nose-heavy, but still good for the size and weight)
Affordability - 6 (you pay for what you get: a large powerful vehicle for a lot of money)
Economy - 5 (large, heavy, AWD: not very economical)
Styling - 9 (clean, teutonic Audi styling with careful power insignia: nice!)
Cargo - 10 (spacious 5-seater, large boot, will carry everything)
Comfort - 8 (quick and quiet, this Audi will eat Autobahn miles in good comfort)
Off-road - 3 (not made for off-roading, should be quite alright though)
All Weather - 9 (understeers quickly, but has loads of Quattro traction)
Image Making - 10 (a car the anorak will love as much as the wife)
Score: 7.4

 

[Joey D]

I try not to do massive text walls so I'll just sort of give a general comment back.

You aren't looking at the car as a whole, I'm comparing it with every other vehicle out there right now which is why it isn't economical, inexpensive, or good looking. If this was the best sports car for the money then ya sure I would look at the GT-R differently. On the subject of winter tires I am looking at a car purely how it comes from the factory, even putting winter tires on it is "modifying" the car for other then it's original purpose, therefore I didn't use that.

I still get 5.8 too, 9+9+4+5+4+5+3+5+9 =53/9 = 5.8. I only divided by 9 since I didn't count the comfort category. Therefore it isn't cheating since if I would have given it a score and divided by 10 I still would have gotten an average.

Once again this shows how pointless that system is because everyone has their own interpretation on it.

And everyone assumes I hate the car even though I've said numerous times that I don't. I dislike it for many reasons but I'm still impressed with it's performance, much like the Veyron. I just find it all a bit pointless though, as I do with most sports cars. I can also think of about 10 other sports cars I would rather have over a GT-R because as I've said, speed isn't everything.

 

[McLaren]

I did agree with the Interceptor on talking down on the GT-R, why be mad at it when you should be proud of Japan for making their first ever supercar besides the NSX-R

But, it's not really a supercar.

 

[Leonidae]

and what official association defines a supercar? FIA? SCCA? sources please..

 

[homeforsummer]

Well for a start I'd say that no supercar has four seats. And yes I'm including the 911 in that, the 911 is not a supercar. Really, the NSX and Ferrari F430 aren't really supercars either, they're just sports cars or sports coupes. Supercars are the Carrera GTs, Enzos, McLaren F1s, Koenigseggs and Zondas of this world. And much as the GT-R is incredibly impressive, it will never come near the drama and lustability of these cars.

 

[nissan tuner]

"Is the GT-R the best car in the world right now for the money?"

how do you find this out anyway? is there some kind of performance to cost ratio out on the net?

guessing, id say the MS3, G8 and the new WRX would be up there

 

[Leonidae]

we've already been through this. GT-R fills nearly every requirement for supercar, except two.. 200mph top speed and 2-seater, which will be adressed by V-Spec.

 

[homeforsummer]

we've already been through this. GT-R fills nearly every requirement for supercar, except two.. 200mph top speed and 2-seater

...and the wow factor, and either a beautifully crafted or scarily purposeful interior (think Zonda or F40 respectively - the GT-R is just another standard Japanese car interior), or badge kudos beyond petrolheads (say "Nissan GT-R" and "Ferrari" to the average Joe on the streets and see what gets more reaction), or "that supercar shape" that every true supercar shares - the GT-R looks like any other car in silhouette - or a sense of occasion... I could go on.

The GT-R is undoubtably very impressive. It's certainly very fast. But it's not a supercar. It's not a supercar in the same way an AMG S-class isn't a supercar. Lots of performance? Yes. Lots of presence? Yes. Lots of technology? Yes. Supercar? No.

Actually I have more defining criteria - mid engined, and usually outrageously expensive. The GT-R might humble supercars, but it isn't one itself.

 

[Leonidae]

It does have front-midship layout, you know. And it is outrageously expensive for a Nissan, or Japanese car at that.

 

[homeforsummer]

It does have front-midship layout, you know.

So does a BMW 3-series. Doesn't make it mid-engined, or a supercar.

And it is outrageously expensive for a Nissan, or Japanese car at that.

A Roewe 750 will probably be outrageously expensive for a Chinese car but in the greater scheme of things, the Nissan is still much, much cheaper than every single supercar available. If it wasn't cheap then it'd have trouble in this thread seeing as people are looking at the best car for the money. If "the money" was beyond the reach of 99.9% of people then it's a struggle saying it's the "best car".

 

[the Interceptor]

So does a BMW 3-series. Doesn't make it mid-engined, or a supercar.

Technically, an engine behind the front axle means it's a mid-engined car. But I agree with you that the GT-R is not a supercar, just a high-powered sports saloon with supercar performance.

 

[Jim Prower]

Technically, an engine behind the front axle means it's a mid-engined car. But I agree with you that the GT-R is not a supercar, just a high-powered sports saloon with supercar performance.

Well, isn't that what the Skyline GT-R always was? a 2-door "Saloon" (2-door Hardtop) with...I don't want to say "Supercar" Performance, Because when I think of that word, It's rarified air like the Veyron, Carrera GT, CCX, Enzo, etc. that I think of, Not particularly 911 GT2, F430, 612 Scag, 599 GTB, Corvette, (even ZR-1,) etc.

On the other hand, is there anything wrong with that?

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

I don't understand all the hate over the GT-R. I guess its like how I, and many others, hate the Veyron and refuse to acknowledge any positive aspect.

The way i look at it, if you are getting a car that is fast AND reliable, who cares whether its made in Italy or Japan if you get essentially the same product. Yes, i'd rather have an F430, but I simply will not spend 200k on a car unless i come into stupid amounts of money. So when you get a comparable car for 70k, we should all be appreciative because some of us can realistically purchase one without selling a kidney, and this should push other auto makers to make similar models in the same price range and that's good for all of us. If someone wouldve told me ten years ago that we would be getting a car like this in America at that price point i would call BS

If i would knock the GT-R, it would be for the really high weight but its obviously not an issue because the GT-R has shown it can dominate on a track.

Side note on the RS6 avant, i don't think you can give it a 9 or 10 for image because its a station wagon and outside the select few of us who appreciate that subtleness, most will look at that and only see a soccer mom car. But thats the point, i don't really care for a car that has a 10 image b/c im not buying a car for other people to see me in. Either way, i'd much rather have the M5 touring for about half the price.

I think along with the EVO, the S2000 deserves another mention because its cheap, (even cheaper if you get one used, and a S2000 can run for 100k+ which i doubt man other cars in this discussion can do) has a nice power/weight ratio, and that original redline seems awesome.

 

[gator of kana]

Well for a start I'd say that no supercar has four seats. And yes I'm including the 911 in that, the 911 is not a supercar. Really, the NSX and Ferrari F430 aren't really supercars either, they're just sports cars or sports coupes. Supercars are the Carrera GTs, Enzos, McLaren F1s, Koenigseggs and Zondas of this world. And much as the GT-R is incredibly impressive, it will never come near the drama and lustability of these cars.

I thought a supercar is a car with outstanding performance, not the body style and how become the NSX isn't a supercar, I know that the NSX-R was a supercar because of it's unbeatable handling. I mean just look at the Nurburgring lap times, it lapped around the track in 7:56, that's faster than a Viper. I'm not understanding

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

I thought a supercar is a car with outstanding performance, not the body style and how become the NSX isn't a supercar, I know that the NSX-R was a supercar because of it's unbeatable handling. I mean just look at the Nurburgring lap times, it lapped around the track in 7:56, that's faster than a Viper. I'm not understanding

I agree performance should determine super car status, but the cars he listed all are faster in terms of top-end than a GT-R or NSX-R

 

[homeforsummer]

I don't understand all the hate over the GT-R. I guess its like how I, and many others, hate the Veyron and refuse to acknowledge any positive aspect.

As long as you aren't referring to my comments with that, I think it's clearly a very good car indeed, I've just been argueing that it isn't a supercar

I thought a supercar is a car with outstanding performance, not the body style and how become the NSX isn't a supercar, I know that the NSX-R was a supercar because of it's unbeatable handling. I mean just look at the Nurburgring lap times, it lapped around the track in 7:56, that's faster than a Viper. I'm not understanding

The GT-R is very quick but still not close to the performance of the top supercars. People treat the Nurburgring like it's the only important indicator of a car's performance, but what it doesn't tell you is how special a car can make you feel, and much as each GT-R has been a potential "supercar beater" it has never, ever had the sense of occasion or the style of an actual supercar.

Even the Viper you mentioned isn't really a supercar. It's front engined, it's relatively cheap and it's a bit nasty inside. I wouldn't call the NSX a supercar either - again, potentially a supercar beater but it isn't special enough. If you'd read my earlier post you'd see that even the 911 (whatever model you choose)or the Ferrari F430 aren't really supercars.

I guess I can simplify it thus: A car can be very, very quick, but it can still avoid being a supercar. The Renault Megane R26.R has just got an 8'18 around the 'Ring, which is bloody quick - but a supercar it is not.

 

[gator of kana]

so how would you classify what could be a supercar if it's not based on performance

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

As long as you aren't referring to my comments with that, I think it's clearly a very good car indeed, I've just been argueing that it isn't a supercar



The GT-R is very quick but still not close to the performance of the top supercars. People treat the Nurburgring like it's the only important indicator of a car's performance, but what it doesn't tell you is how special a car can make you feel, and much as each GT-R has been a potential "supercar beater" it has never, ever had the sense of occasion or the style of an actual supercar.

Even the Viper you mentioned isn't really a supercar. It's front engined, it's relatively cheap and it's a bit nasty inside. I wouldn't call the NSX a supercar either - again, potentially a supercar beater but it isn't special enough. If you'd read my earlier post you'd see that even the 911 (whatever model you choose)or the Ferrari F430 aren't really supercars.

I guess I can simplify it thus: A car can be very, very quick, but it can still avoid being a supercar. The Renault Megane R26.R has just got an 8'18 around the 'Ring, which is bloody quick - but a supercar it is not.

My comments weren't directed at anyone, there's a lot of hate towards the GT-R everywhere, though i think it has more to do with anti-fanboyism than the actual car.

As for what defines a supercar it seems pretty subjective, unless someone can come in here with a hard set of rules. Personally I think a supercar is something that is untouchable to 99.9% of people, the McLaren F1, Veyron, F50, Enzo and those likes. They are just so insanely fast that it's almost impractical for driving the speed limit.

But performance wise its hard to argue against the GT-R