Is the GT-R the best car in the world right now for the money?

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

That's beside the point though, because you're not in the position to be able to choose. It's much easier to say what you'd want and not want from down here on planet Earth, but I wouldn't doubt that if you had millions burning a hole in your pocket you'd wonder what you ever saw in the GT-R in the first place, and then go and buy a garage full of Ferraris, Rolls Royce and Lamborghinis.

And for the people that can afford genuine supercars, then the GT-R is no longer a rival. If you can afford an Enzo for example, a GT-R is just pocket change and certainly isn't a rival. It'd be your town runabout.

Im certainly not trying to compare it to an Enzo or the like, those are true supercars, but also cost upwards of $1 million.

My sig has the cars i would want if (when) i had (have) all the money in the world, and the GT-R is one of them

 

[homeforsummer]

Never underestimate the potential of true supercars making even machines like the GT-R seem humdrum though. If you had a garage with the Zonda, 288 GTO and F1 in, the only time you'd ever bother using the R35 or M5 would be if you needed to take the kids to school.

My realistic dream car is an immaculate S1 Elise, but if I had my more unrealistic dream 360CS, Vandebrink Carver and Alfa Romeo 8C parked next to it, I think I'd be hard pressed to choose the Elise on most occasions.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

Never underestimate the potential of true supercars making even machines like the GT-R seem humdrum though. If you had a garage with the Zonda, 288 GTO and F1 in, the only time you'd ever bother using the R35 or M5 would be if you needed to take the kids to school.

My realistic dream car is an immaculate S1 Elise, but if I had my more unrealistic dream 360CS, Vandebrink Carver and Alfa Romeo 8C parked next to it, I think I'd be hard pressed to choose the Elise on most occasions.

Well i don't know how well the Zonda, GTO, or F1 will handle rain/snow so that's what the GT-R would be for. Also there's definitely times where i would not want to draw attention and the GT-R or M5 are at least somewhat discreet.

Seeing as i have never driven/rode in anything more advanced that a 90s Viper GTS my mind could change in the future i guess

 

[Joey D]

Why does everyone assume the GT-R would be good in the snow? What sort of tires does it come with from the factory? AWD =/= good in the snow.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

Why does everyone assume the GT-R would be good in the snow? What sort of tires does it come with from the factory? AWD =/= good in the snow.

I would get snow/all weather tires, plus i'd guess the weight and awd help some, not to mention the traction control, something the F1 and GTO (and the Zonda?) don't have

 

[Joey D]

I would get snow/all weather tires, plus i'd guess the weight and awd help some, not to mention the traction control, something the F1 and GTO (and the Zonda?) don't have

Still though, a car with that much power would more than likely have issues in the snow since studded tires aren't legal in most areas.

 

[Jim Prower]

"Snow is Silly Soft Stuff." - Thomas the Tank Engine

I don't think there's all that many vehicles aside from 4WD pickups and SUVs that are much good in the snow. The traction control helps, but if you've got a slush or icepack situation, just about everyone is gonna have issues. Who does superlegal speeds in those conditions, anyway? Rally drivers. Idiots. That's about it.

The traction control would actually reduce engine power, anyway, by reducing the throttle.

 

[Tornado]

Which are about as useful as car having 12 cup holders.

Less, in some cases.

 

[the Interceptor]

The snow reference is about driving on a surface covered with snow, thus pointed at the question of traction. Whether the GT-R and other AWD cars can cope with deep snow is another question.

 

[Leonidae]

it might not be as exclusive as Enzo or CGT, but it is affordable supercar just like Ford GT was. Performance alone guarantees that. Price, badge and exclusivity matter only for people who don't know anything about cars.

 

[gator of kana]

it might not be as exclusive as Enzo or CGT, but it is affordable supercar just like Ford GT was. Performance alone guarantees that. Price, badge and exclusivity matter only for people who don't know anything about cars.

I agree, if it's fast it's a supercar, if it's slow it's not a supercar. nothing else describes the classification but overall performance, a supercar can have 4 seats, a supercar doesn't need passion, a supercar can be practical, a supercar doesn't need to be dramatic, a supercar doesn't need to be pretty, a supercar doesn't need to be rare,and a supercar doesn't need to be outrageously expensive like the Veyron.

 

[homeforsummer]

it might not be as exclusive as Enzo or CGT, but it is affordable supercar just like Ford GT was. Performance alone guarantees that. Price, badge and exclusivity matter only for people who don't know anything about cars.

You can't compare the GT-R with the GT. The GT-R is a very impressive sports saloon/2-door coupe. The GT is a supercar.

I agree, if it's fast it's a supercar, if it's slow it's not a supercar.

No. Because then you have the massive grey area over what defines fast. The C63 AMG is pretty quick... is it a supercar? The BMW M5 then, it has 500bhp. Supercar? No, sports saloon. The top Evos get to 60 in 3-4 seconds. Are they supercars? No, they're more sports saloons. That's why you can't just say that anything fast is a supercar.

a supercar can have 4 seats

No it can't.

a supercar doesn't need passion

Yes it does.

a supercar can be practical

This is a grey area again. How do you define practical? The McLaren F1 was practical compared to the Ferrari F40, but both were supercars. The M5 touring blitzes them both but it certainly isn't a supercar.

a supercar doesn't need to be dramatic

Of course it does. If it blends into the rest of the traffic then there's nothing "super" about it. You can see and hear a Lamborghini coming from a mile off. Supercars draw maximum attention everywhere they go, and there's nothing understated about them.

a supercar doesn't need to be pretty

Again pretty is a subjective area, my girlfriend thinks a Pagani Zonda is hidious but I love it. On the other hand, she knows it's special. We went to the london motor show, and she asked me why Nissan had so many of the same car (she was referring to the GT-R...). I had to explain to her that it was a performance car, and to be honest she was completely nonplussed by it, but show her a Lamborghini and she needs extra air!

a supercar doesn't need to be rare, and a supercar doesn't need to be outrageously expensive like the Veyron.

It certainly helps. What's super about it if every Joe Bloggs has one? People pay that much for the beauty, the presence, the massive engine, the noise, the sense of occasion... if they could get that from a supermini then what would be the point of having a supercar? I wish I could phrase this better but the high price and exclusivity keeps them out of the hands of the plebs and makes the driver feel special. A mostly-anonymous Nissan doesn't do this.

The Nissan R35 GT-R is a very, nay extremely, good car. But it is NOT a supercar. It is more than possible to have supercar humbling performance without being a supercar itself.

 

[Jim Prower]

Here's how I'd go about it.

Similar to '90s GT3 - Sports car
Similar to '90s GT2 - High-performance Sports car
Similar to '90s GT1 - Supercar

 

[the Interceptor]

About the seating question: what about the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti? It is a proper V12 533hp supercar, and it has 4 actual seats.

 

[homeforsummer]

The 612 is a GT. The Enzo is a supercar.

 

[Leonidae]

Enzo is a HYPERCAR, just like GT. get it right.

 

[Philly]

I don't think there's all that many vehicles aside from 4WD pickups and SUVs that are much good in the snow. The traction control helps, but if you've got a slush or icepack situation, just about everyone is gonna have issues. Who does superlegal speeds in those conditions, anyway? Rally drivers. Idiots. That's about it.

And then there is the issue that AWD doesn't help you stop in the snow. Yeah, you can get going better in the stuff than in a 600 hp Enzo, but when it comes to stopping and turning (which are going to be the most important factors in driving safely in the snow), the GT-R is going to drive much like any other supercar in the snow. That is, unless all the on-board computers know how to deal with the stuff. And I'm guessing they don't.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

About the seating question: what about the Ferrari 612 Scaglietti? It is a proper V12 533hp supercar, and it has 4 actual seats.

Wow, from the outside i hate the Scag but those are 4 proper seats and a beautiful interior.

I think the GT3, GT2, GT1 is the best way to look at things, not whether the car looks striking or costs a ton. I would say the GT-R fits into GT2, as do many of the cars claimed as supercars. The only recent GT1-ish cars i see are the Carrera GT, Enzo, and MC12, though i feel like i might be missing one or two. Not sure about the Veyron cuz i dont think it could handle GT1 but its not GT2 either

 

[Leonidae]

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

+1 for the vid

 

[the Interceptor]

The 612 is a GT. The Enzo is a supercar.

What about the F430?

 

[Joey D]

That's hardly what I would consider a snowy road. It's all hard pack.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

That's hardly what I would consider a snowy road. It's all hard pack.

Would an Enzo etc. be able to do the same though?

 

[Joey D]

Would an Enzo etc. be able to do the same though?

No, I never said it could. I'm just saying people that think the GT-R can perform in the snow don't understand snow driving. We get a lot of snow in Michigan, 4x4 SUV's with off-road spec tires have issues. Sports cars aren't meant for the winter which is my point.

 

[Leonidae]

This should fulfill your needs. it can be driven on snowy road, and driven fast too.

 

[the Interceptor]

No, I never said it could. I'm just saying people that think the GT-R can perform in the snow don't understand snow driving. We get a lot of snow in Michigan, 4x4 SUV's with off-road spec tires have issues. Sports cars aren't meant for the winter which is my point.

... and a good point. But we don't get this kind of snow here, so we're fine with everything that can get its power down somehow. You're in trouble with a RWD car, but FWD and especially AWDs will be fine. I'd rather put your kind of snow into the offroad capabilities category, which means that none of the discussed cars (probably with the EVO and the Subie as an exception) would be able to take that on.

Coming back to the supercar issue: would you consider the F430 to be a supercar?

 

[homeforsummer]

No, it's a sports coupe. The Enzo is Ferrari's supercar. As was the F50, as was the F40, as was the 288 GTO. The absolute pinnacle of Ferrari's cars, higher performance than their other ones. Their other range can all be classified easily with other terms. The 456 and 612 are GTs, the Maranello and 599 are sports GTs, the F430/360/355 etc high-performance sports coupes.

You'll spot if you read my earlier posts I already mentioned that the F430 isn't a supercar.

Look at it logically, the F430 doesn't come near the Enzo really, not on rarity, or price, or impact, or desirability etc.All the things that are important for a supercar.

 

[BlackedoutRX7LM]

No, it's a sports coupe. The Enzo is Ferrari's supercar. As was the F50, as was the F40, as was the 288 GTO. The absolute pinnacle of Ferrari's cars, higher performance than their other ones. Their other range can all be classified easily with other terms.

You'll spot if you read my earlier posts I already mentioned that the F430 isn't a supercar.

I would say the F430 fits in GT3, with the Scud possibly fitting in GT2

 

[the Interceptor]

Wouldn't the Enzo be a hypercar given its abilities and being the pinnacle of Ferraris model range?

 

[homeforsummer]

Hypercar is a fairly recent term. The F40 was a supercar and the Enzo follows on from that line. Whichever way you turn this you aren't going to accidentally get me to say the GT-R is a supercar. It isn't, full stop. I'm not a GT-R hater so I'm not saying it just to spite the car, it just isn't a supercar. The supercar tag isn't something you can just apply willy-nilly to any car with high performance otherwise we'd have to include the whole Brabus and AMG range, any M-spec BMW, the Porsche 911 etc.

If Nissan came close to producing an actual, bona-fide supercar, it was the R390 road car. But then that was a race homologation special and someone mentioned earlier that we can't really include those either because they're just race cars.