J-body vs. Honda vs. Whatever thread - continued from first car thread

[ImaRobot]

I've hated Hondas for a long time. Tell me, what comes first to your mind when you think of "faux race car"? People will ruin just about anything, but Hondas - especially Civics - are probably the most widely ruined car of all time. Becoming even a little exuberant causes everyone to assume you're a FnF wannabe, even if your car is completely stock, so you have to wonder "is that what I really want people to think of me? Do I really want a car I can never take above 40% throttle because of stereotypes?" And they really do sound only vaguely less annoying than an alarm clock.

Your really concerned with what people would think of you when you drive a certain car yet you drive a cavalier? That makes no sense.

I'll drive a car and careless what people think about the car, because in the end I'm happy with it. Your blind hate for something blatantly better then the car you have, is just plain ridiculous. Especially when the reasons you claim to hate 4cyl Hondas is just ridiculous.

Still like I said, don't judge a car because of what people have done to it. You see what you see because the area you live in.

 

[Northstar]

but Hondas - especially Civics - are probably the most widely ruined car of all time.

I've seen more horribly modded Cavaliers than anything else in my area. Really the only modified Civic I see is a rather nice one with the only visual modification being some nice rims.

 

[Tornado]

Tell me, what comes first to your mind when you think of "faux race car"? People will ruin just about anything, but Hondas - especially Civics - are probably the most widely ruined car of all time. Becoming even a little exuberant causes everyone to assume you're a FnF wannabe, even if your car is completely stock, so you have to wonder "is that what I really want people to think of me? Do I really want a car I can never take above 40% throttle because of stereotypes?"

Do we really want to delve into the stereotypes that surround people who still own late 80's-derived Cavaliers/Sunbirds?


Because it's usually some variety of a term that rhymes with "Light Slash"; just like it is for people who still own and talk up Camaros or Berettas (or really anything made by GM in that time, but those two especially) of that vintage. Do those negative associations bother you? If not, why do the Honda ones?

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Just for fun



Z24
Rated Engine Torque: 185lbs*ft
First Gear Ratio: 3.5:1
Final Gear Ratio: 3.61:1

Maxmium torque output in 1st gear: 2300bs*ft

Weight: 2700lbs
First Gear Torque to Weight Ratio: 0.85
Approx MPH in first gear at redline: 30mph

Integra GSR (B17)
Rated Engine Torque: 117lbs*ft
First Gear Ratio: 3.3:1
Final Gear Ratio: 4.40:1

Maxmium torque output in 1st gear: 1698bs*ft

Weight: 2600lbs
First Gear Torque to Weight Ratio: 0.65
Approx MPH in first gear at redline: 38mph

So, in my head, the race would go like this:

Off the line, if both drivers were equally competant and the Z24 didn't obliterate it's tires, the Z24 would pull ahead by maybe half a car until the top of first. As it shifts into 2nd, the Integra pulls alongside and slowly starts to pass and then retains the lead until the end of the race. The Z24 is geared pretty aggressively considering it's relative abundance of torque combined with it's very low redline. Makes me wonder what GM was thinking. It's almost geared like it's supposed to be a towing vehicle.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Your really concerned with what people would think of you when you drive a certain car yet you drive a cavalier? That makes no sense.

I'll drive a car and careless what people think about the car, because in the end I'm happy with it. Your blind hate for something blatantly better then the car you have, is just plain ridiculous. Especially when the reasons you claim to hate 4cyl Hondas is just ridiculous.

Still like I said, don't judge a car because of what people have done to it. You see what you see because the area you live in.

Do we really want to delve into the stereotypes that surround people who still own late 80's-derived Cavaliers/Sunbirds?


Because it's usually some variety of a term that rhymes with "Light Slash"; just like it is for people who still own and talk up Camaros or Berettas (or really anything made by GM in that time, but those two especially) of that vintage. Do those negative associations bother you? If not, why do the Honda ones?

Better to look like that than an FnF fanboy.

Just for fun



Z24
Rated Engine Torque: 185lbs*ft
First Gear Ratio: 3.5:1
Final Gear Ratio: 3.61:1

Maxmium torque output in 1st gear: 2300bs*ft

Weight: 2700lbs
First Gear Torque to Weight Ratio: 0.85
Approx MPH in first gear at redline: 30mph

Integra GSR (B17)
Rated Engine Torque: 117lbs*ft
First Gear Ratio: 3.3:1
Final Gear Ratio: 4.40:1

Maxmium torque output in 1st gear: 1698bs*ft

Weight: 2600lbs
First Gear Torque to Weight Ratio: 0.65
Approx MPH in first gear at redline: 38mph

So, in my head, the race would go like this:

Off the line, if both drivers were equally competant and the Z24 didn't obliterate it's tires, the Z24 would pull ahead by maybe half a car until the top of first. As it shifts into 2nd, the Integra pulls alongside and slowly starts to pass and then retains the lead until the end of the race. The Z24 is geared pretty aggressively considering it's relative abundance of torque combined with it's very low redline. Makes me wonder what GM was thinking. It's almost geared like it's supposed to be a towing vehicle.

I always figured it might be able to tow a small U-Haul trailer if the need arose. Might be useful someday.

 

[ImaRobot]

Better to look like that than an FnF fanboy

How's that?

I would rather be called an fnf fanboy then be known as the guy that rags on cars that are obviously faster then his, but try's to act like he has a faster car 👎

 

[Wolfe]

I'd rather daily-drive the purple Eclipse from 2F2F than be so hopelessly and childishly image-conscious that I would dread driving a stock economy car with exuberance, for fear of what others would think.

 

[Azuremen]

So they ran really short gearing on the Civics to make them capable of forward motion? That explains the existance of the comically slow Civic HX with its taller "highway gears".

Highway gears means 5th, which frankly no entry level cars should ever be accelerating in

As I've said before, the V6 probably isn't going to cause that much of a problem as far as handling goes, since FWD pretty much equals a horrible front bias anyway (and if it didn't, you'd have hopeless wheelspin in hard launches). I'll give you the wishbone suspension thing, though.

Minus the fact that more weight up front (a big V6 is more weight) further messes up the balance of the car. And funny enough, those less torquey Honda motors make launches easier to manage (not to mention corner exit) because you aren't making more torque than you can use. I've driven some very torque FWD cars, such as a few 2.0T GTi's (which make more torque for more time than that V6 of yours) and it honestly doesn't help unless you're at highway speeds. Or just too lazy to drop from 4th to pass people around town.

Never mind the fact that the Integra Type R more or less drives like a RWD car and is widely praised as one of the best handling cars that sane people can buy.

I tend to see more fail Civics, and when I do see a ruined J, it's usually not that bad. As far as condition goes, 96-up are usually OKish as long as they haven't been Pep Boys'd, 92-95 are rare and usually not worth noticing, and pre-'92 aren't that good. But then I rarely notice/remember Civics unless they're unusually beat up, or heavily "modified". Finding a good one that's for sale is another matter.

I had a pretty nice '93 Hatch for a while, finding decent condition ones isn't that hard either.

Remember, the largest city in Alaska is basically a town, so we have a much larger selection of cars available in all kinds of conditions here than you do. Not to mention more mild winters.

 

[White & Nerdy]

How's that?

I would rather be called an fnf fanboy then be known as the guy that rags on cars that are obviously faster then his, but try's to act like he has a faster car 👎

OK, maybe I underestimated the better Hondas a bit out of habit (and from reading internet posts by other people who habitually knock them, which is a group I used to try to run with), but still... it's a Honda, dude.

When I'm looking at a car, whether it's for myself or for someone else, I look for three things: a true three-pedal manual transmission, rear wheel drive, and more than four cylinders. Two out of three is good enough, but the Civic can't even do that. The Sunbird may be a clunker, mine more than most, but the Civic is worse than a clunker. It's a four cylinder appliance, without any interesting or braggable distinguishing features. It will, however, have a super spoiler and annoying blue headlights, or ten million previous miles. Take your pick.

 

[Hei]

I bought my eg6 with around 80k miles back in 2010. It has no spoiler or blue headlights.

 

[White & Nerdy]

I bought my eg6 with around 80k miles back in 2010. It has no spoiler or blue headlights.

Then you're about as lucky as me. I got this heap with less than 70k miles. Of course, it'd been sitting unused for several years, so mileage alone might not be a good thing to go on in this case.

 

[McLaren]

When I'm looking at a car, whether it's for myself or for someone else, I look for three things: a true three-pedal manual transmission, rear wheel drive, and more than four cylinders. Two out of three is good enough, but the Civic can't even do that. The Sunbird may be a clunker, mine more than most, but the Civic is worse than a clunker. It's a four cylinder appliance, without any interesting or braggable distinguishing features. It will, however, have a super spoiler and annoying blue headlights, or ten million previous miles. Take your pick.

You're purposely setting those 3 points b/c you know the Civic can't match them.

And the 2nd part is just hilarious. Your hunk a junk is the exact same thing but with a useless V6. Hey, everyone in this thread, do any of you see any interesting or distinguishing features on this?

 

[Tornado]

'Dat luggage rack.

 

[White & Nerdy]

You're purposely setting those 3 points b/c you know the Civic can't match them.

And the 2nd part is just hilarious. Your hunk a junk is the exact same thing but with a useless V6. Hey, everyone in this thread, do any of you see any interesting or distinguishing features on this?

Of course there aren't on that variant, other than being one of the last cars to have a luggage rack on the trunklid (EDIT: Toro noticed it too). And no, that pretty much is how my selection process goes. Maybe not originally, but I can't really think of any car with less than two of those that I'd actually want to drive.

 

[Hei]

Evo, SRT-4, VW Golf turbo 4, Subaru Sti's, Celica RS4.

 

[McLaren]

Of course there aren't on that variant, other than being one of the last cars to have a luggage rack on the trunklid (EDIT: Toro noticed it too). And no, that pretty much is how my selection process goes. Maybe not originally, but I can't really think of any car with less than two of those that I'd actually want to drive.

LOL, it doesn't matter what variant I post. The point is the same; your car isn't anywhere more interesting than a Civic.

 

[White & Nerdy]

Evo, SRT-4, VW Golf turbo 4, Subaru Sti's, Celica RS4.

Evo: AWD is close enough, I suppose.
SRT-4: That's close, though I don't care much for Neons in general.
VW Golf: That's a car the fanbase really would scare me away from. At least some Honda people try for a performance look...
STi: See Evo
Celica RS4: Ah, the one you can't get in the US. Okay.

 

[ImaRobot]

OK, maybe I underestimated the better Hondas a bit out of habit (and from reading internet posts by other people who habitually knock them, which is a group I used to try to run with), but still... it's a Honda, dude.

Says the guy that drives a Cavalier, lol.

When I'm looking at a car, whether it's for myself or for someone else, I look for three things: a true three-pedal manual transmission, rear wheel drive, and more than four cylinders. Two out of three is good enough, but the Civic can't even do that. The Sunbird may be a clunker, mine more than most, but the Civic is worse than a clunker. It's a four cylinder appliance, without any interesting or braggable distinguishing features. It will, however, have a super spoiler and annoying blue headlights, or ten million previous miles. Take your pick.

Wait wait wait just because your car has 6 cylinders automatically makes it better? Your displacement doesnt mean anything with its whopping 140 hp. haha oh man. How can you brag about your v6 when not only does it have so much less power then most 2 liter 4 cylinders? That has got to be the black sheep of the V6 family.. you know.. the one no one ever wants to say is part of there family.

Whats so distinguishable about your cavalier? "oh well I have enough torque to tow something" Good for you, I'm glad you got a truck in a cars body.

Blue lights? are you talking about HID's or the halo light, that tends to go for any car, domestic or import. Ive seen more angel eyes on Mustangs then I have on an import. I can go on craigslist right now and find so many Civics that dont have "blue lights" a "super spoiler" and a "million miles."

 

[White & Nerdy]

Wait wait wait just because your car has 6 cylinders automatically makes it better? Your displacement doesnt mean anything with its whopping 140 hp. haha oh man. How can you brag about your v6 when not only does it have so much less power then most 2 liter 4 cylinders? That has got to be the black sheep of the V6 family.. you know.. the one no one ever wants to say is part of there family.

At least it's something. Six cylinders in a car that size is surprising enough to generate at least a little interest, and most people I know actually like the sound of it.

Whats so distinguishable about your cavalier? "oh well I have enough torque to tow something" Good for you, I'm glad you got a truck in a cars body.

It's highly underrated, that. At least I know that if/when I need to relocate, I won't need a full-on moving van to do it.

Blue lights? are you talking about HID's or the halo light that tends to go for any car, domestic or import. Ive seen more angel eyes on Mustangs then I have on an import. I can go on craigslist right now and find so many Civics that dont have "blue lights" a "super spoiler" and a "million miles."

I was talking about those stupid blue bulbs that are just like regular headlight bulbs, except tinted to produce the most annoying shade of blue imaginable.

 

[ImaRobot]

At least it's something. Six cylinders in a car that size is surprising enough to generate at least a little interest, and most people I know actually like the sound of it.

By the sounds of what you have in your empty state, I would imagine the bar is set pretty low. You consider that something? an engine thats big, but has trouble making power. If you want to use the more cylinders card, atleast pick a v6 that can actually brag about the power it makes.

It's highly underrated, that. At least I know that if/when I need to relocate, I won't need a full-on moving van to do it.

lololol. I would rather get a truck/van instead of putting my car through something like that. You may be able to tow something, but why put your car under all that stress? I bet your transmission and suspension components would love that. Not only that, what about your brakes, you can certainly get it going.. doubt you'd be able to stop though.

its not underrated.. for it to be underrated it should atleast be good at something.

I was talking about those stupid blue bulbs that are just like regular headlight bulbs, except tinted to produce the most annoying shade of blue imaginable.

Again, are you talking about HID's or what, cus I have no idea what your talking about.

 

[CyborgGT]

Just wanted to post this build I'm following on another site. F22A (2.2L SOHC/non-VTEC) with bolt-ons, I think ~170ish whp right now. Stock, these Accords are like 12 seconds 0-60.

 

[White & Nerdy]

By the sounds of what you have in your empty state, I would imagine the bar is set pretty low. You consider that something? an engine thats big, but has trouble making power. If you want to use the more cylinders card, atleast pick a v6 that can actually brag about the power it makes.

Like the 3.4 variant? From what I've heard, it drops right in and can put a J-body in the mid-low 14s.

lololol. I would rather get a truck/van instead of putting my car through something like that. You may be able to tow something, but why put your car under all that stress? I bet your transmission and suspension components would love that. Not only that, what about your brakes, you can certainly get it going.. doubt you'd be able to stop though.

its not underrated.. for it to be underrated it should atleast be good at something.

Not like I'd be going that far. Just have to go slow and careful, though that's difficult for me anyway.

Again, are you talking about HID's or what, cus I have no idea what your talking about.

There oughta be a law against these things... to say nothing of pink/purple/green/red variants.

Just wanted to post this build I'm following on another site. F22A (2.2L SOHC/non-VTEC) with bolt-ons, I think ~170ish whp right now. Stock, these Accords are like 12 seconds 0-60.

Looks about right for 170 whp in a smallish car, but if we're going into engine swaps (which I think that is?), I call 3.4L in my Sunbird with bolt ons of my own.

 

[CyborgGT]

^ You "call 3.4L"... what? And no, that's the factory engine.

 

[White & Nerdy]

^ You "call 3.4L"... what? And no, that's the factory engine.

I figured that was a non-standard engine, so as long as that's open, consider the possibility of putting the much more powerful 201 cid V6 in a J-car. I've heard it's a pretty good combination.

Since it's the factory engine, though, just what is meant by "bolt-ons"? I'm a bit suspicious.

 

[ImaRobot]

I figured that was a non-standard engine, so as long as that's open, consider the possibility of putting the much more powerful 201 cid V6 in a J-car. I've heard it's a pretty good combination.

Since it's the factory engine, though, just what is meant by "bolt-ons"? I'm a bit suspicious.

On the video it says I/H/E/IM/Cam/tune
Intake, Headers, Exhaust, Nevermind.. IM is intake manifold, Cams, and a Tune.
Those cars arent exactly light cars compared to the civics you are talking about. They are actually a couple hundred pounds heavier.. The civics range from 2000-2400 for the HB and the Accord is around 2700+ for the coupe.

 

[CyborgGT]

How much power does this stock 3.4L you mention make?

 

[Tornado]

215 if you get the good one out of the Lumina. 180 if you don't.

 

[White & Nerdy]

On the video it says I/H/E/IM/Cam/tune
Intake, Headers, Exhaust, Nevermind.. IM is intake manifold, Cams, and a Tune.
Those cars arent exactly light cars compared to the civics you are talking about. They are actually a couple hundred pounds heavier.. The civics range from 2000-2400 for the HB and the Accord is around 2700+ for the coupe.

Well given that level of modification my Rustbird could probably take out an E36 M3, and if it didn't the remainder of the gap could be closed via nitrous (oh yeah, that's another benefit of larger engines, they tend to have higher nitrous tolerance).

 

[CyborgGT]

^This is before any V6 swap, correct?

Toronado: Sooooo... the power's not quite on par with that of an H22 (another 2.2L 4-banger) out of a Prelude Type-S or Accord Euro-R, which are rated at 220hp? I mean, if we're talking swaps you may as well 'get the good one.'

 

[Tornado]

The good one probably wouldn't fit in a Cavalier. It barely fit in the Lumina.