JGTC S3 Round 1 Qualif + Results

hOt6o4bOi
no way SHig, haha that takes away everything from the long race format

GT 500
Pole Record : 1'03.897 ( veilsidebr ) ~ Nissan Motul Pitworks Z
Circuit Record : 1'05.253 ( kennythebomb ) ~ Toyota Woodone Supra

GT 300
Pole Record : 1'09.620 ( eatsviper4lunch ) ~ RE Amemiya Asparadrink RX-7
Circuit Record : 1'11.746 ( eatsviper4lunch ) ~ RE Amemiya Asparadrink RX-7

remember that RSS was used for Qualy...
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Yeah, I know, I know, but I hate not having my entire replay!! That's basically the reason for the bargain I proposed...

Grr..

-SHig
 
ejr_1
Well it's a good idea, but what is wrong with the 3,2,1 points system we have now?
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I wouldn't propose more points, but points for more pilots. Something like 3,3,2,2,1,1 or around.

As Nuvolari pointed out, and like it happens in real races, no pilot uses medium or hard tyres in a qualification in real races. In our situation, we don't even know which are the correct tyres for the race, since we don't know the number of laps. If you're playing in the dark, shouldn't you be rewarded for that extra effort? Like Nuvolari said, what's the point of using RS/RS in the qualify if you may be ruining you're race time?

Choosing RH/RH will probably sent you to the back of the pack, but an RM/RM choice might leave you in the middle. It's obvious that who chooses RS/RS will get the first places, but will that be good for the race? And what are we emphasizing here? The race, right? The points in the qualification are a prize for the fastest pilots, or are they a reward for choosing RS/RS tyres for qualifying?

That's the idea I would like to leave in the air.... (and it was a long post for a portuguese pilot to write in English :crazy:)
 
In RL racing where qualy setup dictates race-start setup (F1 for example) the tradeoff is to risk compromising your race strategy to gain a higher grid position...something that doesn't apply here since grid position is meaningless on race day. To award points to offset this would, IMO, not be the best approach and could unbalance the entire points system.

While I like the new tire rule because it makes things interesting, now that you all mention it, it doesn't really work so well in a system where qualy has no impact on grid position, for the reasons stated above. Seems a bit pointless really, and creates some problems as mentioned by others. I do think, however, if everyone role-plays things a bit more (forgive the sentiment) then regardless of what will allow best race strategy we could all still PRETEND that it all works as it would in RL :D
 
ZeratulSG
In RL racing where qualy setup dictates race-start setup (F1 for example) the tradeoff is to risk compromising your race strategy to gain a higher grid position...something that doesn't apply here since grid position is meaningless on race day. To award points to offset this would, IMO, not be the best approach and could unbalance the entire points system.

While I like the new tire rule because it makes things interesting, now that you all mention it, it doesn't really work so well in a system where qualy has no impact on grid position, for the reasons stated above. Seems a bit pointless really, and creates some problems as mentioned by others. I do think, however, if everyone role-plays things a bit more (forgive the sentiment) then regardless of what will allow best race strategy we could all still PRETEND that it all works as it would in RL :D
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We could also add thenths of seconds to your race time based on your starting position, or whole seconds(to make up for actually passing cars in say a 22 car grid). It's a bit extreem, and if I was the admin, I'd say no, since that is alot of extra work that would most likly go unnoticed in a 1 hour race (with the exception of R1 in S1 :P).

I like the way the new rules are. They demand devotion, and they make you work your butt off to get a good result. I guess we'll have to wait and see how it all turns out after round 1. If everything is amuck, we should scrap it, but if everything comes out good, we should keep it. 👍
 
i give props to the new rule, might be fun. i think we have to wait after round 1 to see do we get with this... if we have a lot of problems, then we can think about it for R2
 
Nuvolari
If I may, a few comments on the effects of the new qualifying rule regarding tire selection:

The difficulty is that if the race distance is unknown until 24 hours before qualifying time submission, the wrong qualifying tire may be selected.

If, after a qualifying time is submitted, the driver determines a tire and pit strategy which may produce a quicker race time based on the number of race laps, but which requires starting on a different tire than was used in qualifying, the driver is honor-bound not to use that strategy and is forced to do something which may well result in a slower race time. If the submitted qualifying time is not fast enough to reward the driver with any points, the driver will find himself in the unhappy position of getting no qualifying points and knowing that he will have handicapped himself in the actual race which pays many more points than qualifying.

It seems that the only way to know which tire to use for qualifying and for the start of the race is to complete tire testing in order to be able to predict which tires produce the best average speed over a known stint distance, then wait until the number of race laps is known, then do the calculations to determine the quickest race time based on tire selection and stint length and thereby deciding on which tire is the ideal start tire, and then go out a get a decent qualifying time with that ideal start tire, hoping desperately that the effort produces at least one valuable qualifying point.

With the presently determined schedule between race laps announcement and qualifying time submission, there would be just twenty-four hours to do that.

And still there exists the possibility that, during race week, the driver may find another combination of tire selection and pit strategy that will produce a quicker race time, for some previously unknown reason, and he will be unable to change his race plan during that week of racing following submission of qualifying time.

For a driver like myself, these difficulties are worth pondering. During Season One I never found myself on the podium after qualifying, but I never found myself off the podium after the race. My approach is therefore that I cannot count on getting any points from qualifying, I can only hope to gain maximum possible points from the race itself and if I make a mistake on tire selection for qualifying I'm almost certainly going to reduce my only advantage in the overall competition.

Re-reading the rules carefully has led me to assume that, as in Season One, there is no penalty for simply not qualifying at all. In my case that would seem to be the only reasonable thing to do, because I did find on occasion during Season One that late in the week a fresh idea on strategy produced a quicker race time.

So for me, even though I would prefer to qualify if only to participate in that part of the competition, and unless there is some Season Two sanction for non-submission of a qualifying time, it would be smarter to forget qualifying altogether and just do my careful tire testing, retaining the option of making any changes I wish during race week which will produce my quickest race time.

Respectfully submitted.

Appalari Racing
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Something else to add to Nuvo's comments concerning tire selection for qualification: As we all know some cars eat tires faster then others, and some drivers eat them quicker then others. These cars and/or drivers will never be using Soft Tires in the Main Race; they're only chance of winning and getting points is consistancy in driving and good pit and tire strategy.With that said, these drivers will never qualify with soft tires (cause they won't run them in the main race) so they will never have a chance to earn any points in the quali. portion of the race for the whole season.This appears to give an unfair advantage to those cars and drivers with better tire wear.
My personal feelings is that the playing field should be as level as possible in the quali. run seeing that strategy and pit selections don't exist ther, only driver skill, but having drivers running on 6 different possible selection of tire combinations gives literally seconds of time advantage to said cars and drivers. What incentive is there to run the quali on RH tires, knowing somebody will be running RS's and RM's and you will never , meaning all season, pick up any quali points.Once again,my two cents worth.

One Example if I didn't make myself clear above:driver A most always uses RS's in the main race, pitting more but making up that loss of time by faster laps. This driver usually ends up in the top of the class. Driver B usually uses RH's making fewer pits , but running at slower lap times. This driver also usually ends up in the top of the class. By the end of the season drivers A and B are neck in neck with points. Now throw in the new qualifying rule, there are now 60 points (if I calculated right) that driver A has a good chance of getting some,while Driver B has no chance. Two very close drivers with one getting a much much better chance of winning the season over driver B.
 
interesting debate 👍 valid points on both sides.... a slow newbie input ? ... the team aspect... being new and slow... do I help my team by trying for pole points ? while I try to get competitive on the race aspect. Adjusting my pits accordingly ? ... just something I'm thinking about.... the overall season where, as has been said, that point or two can make a difference
 
ill tell you now, i think the pole posistion is valuable enough to risk race strategy

because there is no weight penalty!

so it is up to you whether or not you want to ruin your race setup or not
 
I'm done reading...omg is it even possible to please everyone!

I entered the little new tire rule in qualif for a deeper management feeling and more sim like...but right now it's producing more problems than anything else. :crazy: Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrg

Give me couple of minutes here. :guilty:
 
Come on man, you know that you can never please everyone, unless there are less than 2 people. It's always the little things huh.....good luck, don't lose any sleep eats!!
 
Ok this is it, what I'm writing here is final.

Qualification we go all out like S1. RSS let's go use what you want to produce the fastest possible laptime. # of laps will still go up on Friday 9:00PM est. Deadline is still on Saturday 9:00PM est. Points rewarded for qualif are changed to this : 3-2-2-1-1, so Top 5 gets some pts. Like always no weight penalties or anything for your results on the qualification, the only thing are points rewarded.

In the race, 1 point each for the Top 3 quick lap just like S1. No changes here.



Points on the race result now. With the part-time issue some were crying about here's the new system.


Class Championship pts

1st - 20
2nd - 16
3rd - 14
4th - 12
5th - 10
6th - 9
7th - 8
8th - 7
9th - 6
10th - 5
11th - 4
12th - 3
13th - 2
14th - 1
15th - 1


Team Championship pts

1st - 15
2nd - 12
3rd - 10
4th - 8
5th - 6
6th - 5
7th - 4
8th - 3
9th - 2
10th - 1

To calculate the team championship the standings are made using only the full-timers order in the race results. Let's say the race was won by a part-timer and the first full-timer is only in second position, that full-timer will be classified 1st in points in the team championship standings. So all in all it's an inter full-timer classification system. So points can't be stolen on the race by part-timers. When it comes to the qualification and the quick lap, those are based on the entire field. So it's only the race result, where the big points are made that part-timers won't come and interfere in the team championship standings.



Weight Penalty system going up tomorrow.


Again, sorry about this change and for the time you potentially lost with the previous qualification system but keeping it like S1 is in my mind the right thing to do. In another sense it's not lost time because you took it to test each tire combo's time and tire wear. This will not move anymore for the entire season, it's final. So all out, RSS or your choice, best lap you can get just like S1. Sorry again. :guilty: :guilty: My fault.
 
eatsviper4lunch
To calculate the team championship the standings are made using only the full-timers order in the race results. Let's say the race was won by a part-timer and the first full-timer is only in second position, that full-timer will be classified 1st in points in the team championship standings. So all in all it's an inter full-timer classification system. So points can't be stolen on the race by part-timers. When it comes to the qualification and the quick lap, those are based on the entire field. So it's only the race result, where the big points are made that part-timers won't come and interfere in the team championship standings.
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Just to clarify, I assume for the DRIVERS (class) championship full and part-timers will still compete together, meaning if I win a race and a full-timer comes 2nd, I get more points in the driver's standings than the full-timer? Pretty sure this is obvious but just want to confirm :)

eatsviper4lunch
Sorry again. My fault.
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No sweat, it was a nice idea, just a few complications that only came to the surface when 30 competitive raging lunatics (that would be all of us) broke it down into its component parts :D

Kudos for all the effort and trying to introduce new ideas 👍
 
ZeratulSG
Just to clarify, I assume for the DRIVERS (class) championship full and part-timers will still compete together, meaning if I win a race and a full-timer comes 2nd, I get more points in the driver's standings than the full-timer? Pretty sure this is obvious but just want to confirm :)
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For sure, in the class championship it's the actual results directly reflecting the points awarded, with everyone included.
 
Everyone got the PM. 👍

I'm starting to qualify today, GT300 drivers you better pull out something solid to sit in front of me when it's done. :sly:
 
Here we have a good and balanced solution that must please everyone. Nice job once more, eats, finding the correct answer to please everyone.

That's one of the things that makes JGTC probably the best and most pilot friendly competiton around here.... YOU!!!

Let's race!!!!
 
eatsviper4lunch
I will PM everyone in the series to update on the qualification situation. I'm a tard I take the blame. :guilty:
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:lol: I thought you just PMmed me(because that post had the points breakdown, and I had been asking about it)! Don't give yourself any blame man, you're doing insanely well. I can't imagine it... 👍 👍 👍 times infinity! I feel like I owe you money!

east
Sorry eats but the latest quallifying rules suck ass :lol: Oh well back to quallifying I go :)
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Lol, I like'm, except I'd prefer to not use RSS tires cause they're just TOO fake.

I'm glad I don't have to use my qualifying tires though, that'll make my race layout much easier to complete... Thanks!

I wish I had read through this earlier tonight, instead of putting it off until later... That way I might've had some time to play tonight! Alas, I stayed up waaay too late last night, and must try to get DECENT sleep tonight. Gnight! :)
 
hOt6o4bOi
Pole Record : 1'06.265 (fasj)
Circuit Record : 1'07.940 (fasj)

wonder how much the development over the off-season will improve times or not ?
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touche!!! great call there, and i like the revised idea for qualifying now... :mischievous:
 
Bossman, you may not fully realize how much respect you've earned with this demonstration of your ability and willingness to reconsider an issue.

Very good leadership, I say.
 
EV4l, you're the reason we're racing here. I've always said this is the best run series here or anywhere. Much Respect!!!
 
Well said Andy! 👍

After a quick 10 laps or so, I am within a layer of paint of my goal time for this.

Can see maybe another .2 overall and that's it!

Neil
 
The pole/circuit record is a great addition to this, so from now on I'll include it each time in the qualification thread. :)

That's when Soyfu's JGTC Thread Archive comes in handy. 👍
 
fasj6418
cool, now this looks like the "JGTC umbrella girl draft"

:lol:
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Woot! I see the far right is called so I'll lay my claim on the second from the right (w/ the dark hair and kind of confused look).
 
Well then... It took me a few laps to get used to the RSS tires and finally beat my RS tire'd ghost... But I've done it. There are still possibly a few hundreths/thousandths in it for me if I can do everything perfectly, maybe I can find another line somewhere... Having fun though!!!
 
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